This is why we need a living wage

[beagle9]

Your union doesn't want "a decent wage," they want Walmart employees paying dues to SEIU - which will fund your retirement.

In Southern California, the minimum wage is 8.25 an hour - Walmart starts at 9.18 and goes up from there.

Your union is waging a campaign of lies - in an attempt to rob Walmart - and by extension, anyone who shops at Walmart.

You on the public employment dole already get more than 95% of workers get - how much is enough? Is there no end to the greed of the public employee unions?

Do you know anything at all about me? I'm a homemaker. I don't belong to a union. Even when I was working for the DOD I didn't belong to a union. I did belong to a union when I was working for United Airlines, but that was the Machinist union, not the SEIU.

I don't care if Walmart gets a union or not, I want them to pay a living wage. In the richest country in the world, the lowest paid worker should make a living wage and everything should go up from there.

What is a living wage?

I think it is a wage that is paid to the employee's for services rendered, and it would be based upon their loyalty, hardworks and good stewardship while working there, and also upon the companies progress and fortunes it has had as a team within the market place. It is and should be generally divided up out of the spoils of the companies sucesses between all persons found in percentage of (structural pay grade systems), and for whom are involved in the process after cost and taxes are paid. To look upon a workforce as modern day slaves, where as greed trumps all, and where as the employee's are left out of what should be the moral and ethical realm of it all as they should not be, is just criminal if you ask me.

Minimum wage has nothing to do with the living wage situation in America, as they are two seperate things.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

What is a living wage?

A new product from Playtex?

I thought it was Kotex....?

 

[beagle9]

What is a living wage?

A new product from Playtex?

I thought it was Kotex....?

Watch it or you will be accused of having a war on women..

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Again, bulcrap.

It's all true, and you know it.



False - a deliberate lie by your union. Walmart offers many entry positions, which means they employ those who are on welfare. Your union claims that if these people were not given jobs by Walmart - somehow magically, they wouldn't be on assistance. Of course that's a lie - as you know. In fact, the amounts these people would collect with be far greater, if they were not employed.

But the REAL issue is that Obama now gives Welfare to anyone making less than $52K per year. A Quick Guide to SNAP Eligibility and Benefits ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

About 50% of the nation is on some sort of aid - and that isn't even counting the leaches who "work" for government," sucking the lifeblood out of the taxpayers.

Like I said, I'd rather pay it upfront in the prices on their merchandize. You, apparently, want it hidden so you can think low wage workers are lazy and stupid.

You'd rather rob Walmart to pay for your own pension - which is what Unions are attempting to do. This whole campaign of lies is designed to force Walmart into the corrupt monopoly union, where they can be raped and pillaged to fill the unfunded pension chests of millions of government workers (welfare bums.)

In our town we saw an add where "Mcdonalds" was going to help it's employee's qualify for welfare, now what do you have to say about that ? Also she is right, where as with the illegals, entry level young mothers/workers, and other such manual or low skilled labor forces in America, we the tax payers have been subsidizing the companies who have been working them for a while now, and this was so that their help can live and eat while working for them either above or under the table. The scam has been caught and the people are livid about what they have found out in all of this now, so the spin just gets faster and faster as the gates close faster and faster on it all.

Cant say I've ever seen a sixteen year old on welfare. Unless of course his parents are.

 

[Uncensored2008]

In our town we saw an add where "Mcdonalds" was going to help it's employee's qualify for welfare, now what do you have to say about that ? Also she is right, where as with the illegals, entry level young mothers/workers, and other such manual or low skilled labor forces in America, we the tax payers have been subsidizing the companies who have been working them for a while now, and this was so that their help can live and eat while working for them either above or under the table. The scam has been caught and the people are livid about what they have found out in all of this now, so the spin just gets faster and faster as the gates close faster and faster on it all.

What government agency do you work for?

How long has your retirement fund been underfunded? If you can't rape Walmart, how much will benefits be cut?

 

[Uncensored2008]

I think it is a wage that is paid to the employee's for services rendered, and it would be based upon their loyalty, hardworks and good stewardship while working there, and also upon the companies progress and fortunes it has had as a team within the market place.

Is that how YOU buy things?

Do you go to buy a new flat screen and pay based on loyalty to the union? Or are you asking employers to do what you refuse to do?

Because EVERYONE I know buys things for the lowest price they can get them for.

It is and should be generally divided up out of the spoils of the companies sucesses

Really?

How much did you put into the start up costs? What did you risk? Did YOU put your home up to finance the business?

No, of course not - others owe it to you because, um, OBAMA AKBAR.

between all persons found in percentage of (structural pay grade systems), and for whom are involved in the process after cost and taxes are paid. To look upon a workforce as modern day slaves, where as greed trumps all, and where as the employee's are left out of what should be the moral and ethical realm of it all as they should not be, is just criminal if you ask me.

Minimum wage has nothing to do with the living wage situation in America, as they are two seperate things.

So, you want something for nothing, and you want to take it from others... The greed is all yours.

 

[beagle9]

I think it is a wage that is paid to the employee's for services rendered, and it would be based upon their loyalty, hardworks and good stewardship while working there, and also upon the companies progress and fortunes it has had as a team within the market place.

Is that how YOU buy things?

Do you go to buy a new flat screen and pay based on loyalty to the union? Or are you asking employers to do what you refuse to do?

Because EVERYONE I know buys things for the lowest price they can get them for.

It is and should be generally divided up out of the spoils of the companies sucesses

Really?

How much did you put into the start up costs? What did you risk? Did YOU put your home up to finance the business?

No, of course not - others owe it to you because, um, OBAMA AKBAR.

between all persons found in percentage of (structural pay grade systems), and for whom are involved in the process after cost and taxes are paid. To look upon a workforce as modern day slaves, where as greed trumps all, and where as the employee's are left out of what should be the moral and ethical realm of it all as they should not be, is just criminal if you ask me.

Minimum wage has nothing to do with the living wage situation in America, as they are two seperate things.

So, you want something for nothing, and you want to take it from others... The greed is all yours.

People are not things, and therefore companies shouldn't be trying to get them for as cheap as they can get them for, and then keeping them there for as long as they can afterwards.


Really ? "Want something for nothing" eh? You actually got that from what I've been saying here???? So Sad for you.

 

[beagle9]

It's all true, and you know it.



False - a deliberate lie by your union. Walmart offers many entry positions, which means they employ those who are on welfare. Your union claims that if these people were not given jobs by Walmart - somehow magically, they wouldn't be on assistance. Of course that's a lie - as you know. In fact, the amounts these people would collect with be far greater, if they were not employed.

But the REAL issue is that Obama now gives Welfare to anyone making less than $52K per year. A Quick Guide to SNAP Eligibility and Benefits ? Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

About 50% of the nation is on some sort of aid - and that isn't even counting the leaches who "work" for government," sucking the lifeblood out of the taxpayers.



You'd rather rob Walmart to pay for your own pension - which is what Unions are attempting to do. This whole campaign of lies is designed to force Walmart into the corrupt monopoly union, where they can be raped and pillaged to fill the unfunded pension chests of millions of government workers (welfare bums.)

In our town we saw an add where "Mcdonalds" was going to help it's employee's qualify for welfare, now what do you have to say about that ? Also she is right, where as with the illegals, entry level young mothers/workers, and other such manual or low skilled labor forces in America, we the tax payers have been subsidizing the companies who have been working them for a while now, and this was so that their help can live and eat while working for them either above or under the table. The scam has been caught and the people are livid about what they have found out in all of this now, so the spin just gets faster and faster as the gates close faster and faster on it all.

Cant say I've ever seen a sixteen year old on welfare. Unless of course his parents are.

Are you suggesting that only 16 year olds work at McDonald's ?

 

[alan1]

If you choose to build up a position someone else does not hold, knock down that position and then proclaim victory... you will only ever learn how to talk to strawmen.

How is quoting your posts and position a strawman?
I didn't build shit, I merely quoted your post and then stated the fact that the federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour, which it is. And that SNAP still exist, which it does.
Nothing straw about that.
You didn't disagree with the facts I posted, so what is your real point?

A straw man...is a common type of argument and is an informal fallacy based on the misrepresentation of the original topic of argument. To be successful, a straw man argument requires that the audience be ignorant or uninformed of the original argument.
Structure:
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 asserts proposition X.
Person 2 argues against a false but superficially similar proposition Y, as if that were an argument against Person 1's position.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.

For example:

Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions.
Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Example:
Zombie_Pundit says: "2) Raise the minimum wage to or above $7.18/hr. We [Zombie_Pundit and the contemporaneous respondent] have established the necessity of $5.61/hr. If we agree to a minimum wage at or above $7.18/hr, a fulltime employee will not qualify for SNAP. [ specifically avoiding the subjects of part-time work, disabilities, unemployment, dependents, etc... to keep the conversation in a simple and civil tone ]"

alan1 quotes and highlights: "Raise the minimum wage to or above $7.18/hr." and then quips "yet SNAP still exists" concluding "Yer not doing well at arguing yer point" as if Zombie_Pundit proposed raising the minimum wage as some magic cure for all poverty.

Classic Strawman

quod erat demonstrandum

I responded to your post. I didn't claim anything about you or attribute false claims about you, I merely quoted you and responded to it.
Yawn.
Oh, and fuck off.

 

[alan1]

Except it's not enough to pay for a place to live and food to eat.

When you go to the store, do you demand that prices be raised, because the tomato you bought doesn't cost enough to support a family of 5 for a week?

When Walmart or anyone else hires a person, they are purchasing a service, nothing more. They are not adopting a child to care for, they are purchasing the labor of a person at a mutually agreed upon price.

Look, your Union bosses have stolen everything they can from the public sector - you need to rob Walmart to pay for the outrageous benefits that the welfare rats known as government workers get - I understand. Walmart has money and you want it - there are unfunded pensions for government welfare rats that need to be paid for..

Bulcrap. Walmart is stealing our money in the form of welfare to their workers. I would rather pay for it upfront in the cost of their merchandise.

Simple solution, tell government to stop paying welfare.
It's not WalMart, McDonalds or any other corporation passing out the welfare money, it's your government passing out the money.
Blaming somebody else for it is kind of ridiculous.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Do you think its better to be paid more than you are worth? The reason I ask is I think just the opposite. I would rather there be an incentive for people to get off welfare and better themselves. I'd rather pay on the back end. Either way we are going to pay. I just would like the effect of having more people better themselves.

I agree with you that I would prefer that people aspire to better their lives. However, in the interest of fairness, our society must enable ladders of upward social mobility in order for people to have the opportunity to improve their fortunes.

I also think the optimal solution would be for employers to pay their employees more by way of the employer's own volition. There are several companies who pay far above the minimum wage of their own volition. Whole Foods, for example, though they do it to take advantage of that "hippie" vibe, let us not ignore the motivation.

Given that employers have, historically and presently, not been willing to pay their employees a wage consistent with even meager means, we have the minimum wage. The debate on the necessity of a minimum wage was settled in 1938 with the FLSA. The question is how high should it be? Obviously it should be enough such that a single fulltime employee can literally sustain themselves, and as expected the minimum wage actually is around 130% of poverty. Should it be higher to allow the minimum wage worker some disposable income to try to better themselves?

Just a thought on providing ladders of upward social mobility.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

"Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, who has been turning his employees over to the Government relief rolls in order to preserve his company’s undistributed reserves, tell you – using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions — tell you that a wage of $11.00 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry."
- FDR

 

[MisterBeale]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFbYM2EDz40#t=413[/ame]

 

[alan1]

"Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, who has been turning his employees over to the Government relief rolls in order to preserve his company’s undistributed reserves, tell you – using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions — tell you that a wage of $11.00 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry."
- FDR

Are you comfortable with paying $11.00 a week to those that are worthy of it?

 

[MisterBeale]

What people fail to realize, is that a dollar buys less than it did forty years ago. If the elites would quit stealing from the poor and middle class, if a persons labor and savings weren't stolen from them as they tried to get ahead, no raise in the minimum wage would be necessary.

Both progressive and conservatives are cognitively biased, they support their social programs and the welfare/warfare state, so this "minimum wage" is actually an issue. If we nixed the FED, the economy would take care of itself. Wages would float to where they need to be, and the value of the currency would be set and limited by the goods and services produced by the market, not by how much debt is created by the big banks. When the value of currency is determined by the money changers at the temple, it is the poor who suffer. Passing laws to create a minimum wage only lets them continue with their sinful games.

Don't Bother Raising The Minimum Wage
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article39668.html

Put another way, a pre-debasement quarter can still buy you a gallon of gas...with change left over. A gallon of gas cost about 15 minutes of minimum wage labor in the early 1960s. Gas has actually gotten cheaper relative to gold and silver money since then. A minimum wage worker in 1963 could work for ten minutes, then send the wages of those ten minutes (two 90% silver dimes worth about four of today's dollars) forward in time and buy a gallon of gas. It takes today's minimum wage worker about three times as long to earn that same gallon.

Every nominal increase in the minimum wage after the silver was removed from the coinage has been a lie.

Real purchasing power of the minimum wage peaked in 1969. It should come as no great shock that was almost dead center between when silver was taken out of the coinage in 1964 and when gold "taken out of" the dollar in 1971.

Capitalism didn't leave the bottom earners out in the cold. The central bank has been stealing from the poor and giving to the government and the well-connected.

So, to all you minimum wage-earners: a tiny percentage of the population is indeed stealing from you. But it's not the "capitalists". It's the fasco-communist central bank on behalf of the US government. You're getting more by government decree, but you can buy a whole lot less. Don't worry, however. Every other wager earner at all levels is harmed, too (which is why it's more important than ever for all of you reading this to get the best advice possible not just on how to keep inflation from picking your pockets, but also how to multiply your purchasing power in spite of it.)

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

"Do not let any calamity-howling executive with an income of $1,000 a day, who has been turning his employees over to the Government relief rolls in order to preserve his company’s undistributed reserves, tell you – using his stockholders’ money to pay the postage for his personal opinions — tell you that a wage of $11.00 a week is going to have a disastrous effect on all American industry."
- FDR

Are you comfortable with paying $11.00 a week to those that are worthy of it?

Okay, that's another strawman, but just to have some fun with you,

When I was not a zombie but instead alive in 1938, I was not comfortable paying eleven 1938 dollars to a 1938 worker in a week, because I thought they deserved twelve 1938 dollars, but I compromised and eleven 1938 dollars it was.

 

[Andylusion]

So 3 who hate the poor and want to force them to go to college or school of some kind to rack up more debt instead of letting them earn a decent wage at a job they enjoy.

Whats wrong with going to college instead of being a perpetual bagger? Once they automate the bagging then they will be obsolete.

Again, it all goes back to choice.

What if someone doesn't want to go to college, doesn't want to learn some difficult skill, and is perfectly fine bagging?

I personally, say they should be able to keep that job, and the leftards, should just shut the hell up about it.

But leftists, would rather drive up the minimum wage, thus making replacing baggers with robots cost effective.

Net result: Those people end up losing their jobs, and either living as beggars instead of baggers, or they are forced to go to college which they don't want to.

To the left though, tyranny is equal to benevolence, and forcing you to do what they deem "better", is all that matters.

 

[Andylusion]

So 3 who hate the poor and want to force them to go to college or school of some kind to rack up more debt instead of letting them earn a decent wage at a job they enjoy.

I don't think I've ever met anyone who enjoyed their min wage job or would want it as a career.

I actually have. Two of them in fact. Technically three....

Sometimes, people when they have lived a long full life, and have retired from their careers, simply want to do something to get out of the house. Do something that has very little stress, and lax requirements. There was a retired guy that worked at Wendy's, and as mind boggling as it was to me, he loved it.

There was another guy, that worked at an assembly factory, and he loved it there too. But he ended up leaving because if he stayed he forfeited his Social Security. Congrats Leftards... turned productive Americans into social leeches, one person at a time.

Lastly, there was one guy who loved it... but I'll concede he loved it because he was in a management program. 6 Months later, he was district manager, earning 3 times as much, plus a management year-end bonus.

The point though is.... let people make the choice about what job they like and don't like. Stop thinking everyone else should be able to arbitrarily determine what is, and is not a good job.

AND BY THE WAY..... This is yet another example of how horrible Socialist Insecurity is. Imagine if you invested in a private retirement investment, and after working for 40 years, and socking money away in the hundreds of thousands, and when you turn 65, you are told by your investment agent that you have to quit your job, or you lose your money???

You would sue the absolute hell out of that guy, and take the company to court, and OWN you a retirement company.

Well here in leftard land, the government does exactly that to every single American citizen, and the left stands back and praises it.

 

[Andylusion]

In our town we saw an add where "Mcdonalds" was going to help it's employee's qualify for welfare, now what do you have to say about that ? Also she is right, where as with the illegals, entry level young mothers/workers, and other such manual or low skilled labor forces in America, we the tax payers have been subsidizing the companies who have been working them for a while now, and this was so that their help can live and eat while working for them either above or under the table. The scam has been caught and the people are livid about what they have found out in all of this now, so the spin just gets faster and faster as the gates close faster and faster on it all.

Cant say I've ever seen a sixteen year old on welfare. Unless of course his parents are.

Are you suggesting that only 16 year olds work at McDonald's ?

There are three types of people who work minimum wage jobs, and possibly a fourth.

The first, and most common, are teenagers and people working their way through school.

Often, they are there only in passing.

The second, are retired people. People who are there because they want something to do in their twilight years. They want to feel useful in their old age. They want an excuse to hang around other people, instead of sitting at home all day.

The third, are people who simply flat out, don't want to work hard at anything. They don't want to have to earn a degree. They don't want to learn a new skill. They don't want a high stress job that pays more.

I've met these people. They want to earn $20 an hour, but they want to work at a five-year-olds lemonade stand. These people typically (in my limited experience) think they are owed something.

These people also typically have bad work ethics. You can easily earn far more than minimum wage just by doing extremely difficult things like showing up on time. Like not talking on your phone during work. Like conducting yourself in a business-like manor.

But they don't, and thus they work minimum wage at McDs.

The fourth group, are those looking for a way in. These are the people who take a job working for minimum wage, just so they can get a foot in the door, to move up to a better position.

I had an ex-military guy, who was in his early 40s, work minimum wage at Advance Auto Parts. 6 months later, he was district manager.

A lot of the morons on the left, are oblivious to the concept of sacrificing now, for something better later. This is exactly why they never succeed in life.

 

[Andylusion]

Except it's not enough to pay for a place to live and food to eat.

When you go to the store, do you demand that prices be raised, because the tomato you bought doesn't cost enough to support a family of 5 for a week?

When Walmart or anyone else hires a person, they are purchasing a service, nothing more. They are not adopting a child to care for, they are purchasing the labor of a person at a mutually agreed upon price.

Look, your Union bosses have stolen everything they can from the public sector - you need to rob Walmart to pay for the outrageous benefits that the welfare rats known as government workers get - I understand. Walmart has money and you want it - there are unfunded pensions for government welfare rats that need to be paid for..

Bulcrap. Walmart is stealing our money in the form of welfare to their workers. I would rather pay for it upfront in the cost of their merchandise.

Let me get this straight........

First *YOU* vote for idiots in government who give out welfare.

Then *YOU* scream about Walmart taking advantage of the system *YOU* support.

Am I missing something?

If you are so unbelievable stupid, as to hand out your money every morning, how is it anyone elses fault, but your own, that you are broke?

If you give money to your drug addicted alcoholic brother-in-law, is it now his fault that he blows your money and beer and drugs, or yours?

The instant that you support policies that government gives out your money.... you also instantly forfeit any right to complain, or blame anyone but the people who voted in favor of such policies.