Those who insist Christians are attempting to establish a theocracy....

[koshergrl]

Oh honey, I'm sure boop has a special convo where you can share that sort of thing.

But THIS conversation is where you post your evidence that Christians are attempting to establish a theocracy in the US.

So far, all you've done is prove that you don't know what a theocracy...or the US....is.

 

[KNB]

When you right-wing talking monkeys keep babbling nonsense about "This is a Christian nation! We don't take kindly to furriners 'round these parts!", then it's kind of hard for anyone to believe that you're not a bunch of intolerant religious assholes who want your fairy tales to be accepted by everyone.

 

[koshergrl]

Please provide your evidence. Quotes and links of proposed legislation that seek to establish a theocracy in the US.

Thank you.

You mean besides all the Christians who insist this is a Christian nation? or those who want to establish all the blue laws, and laws prohibiting victimless crimes? Have we forgotten Prohibition, and do we not understand that it was an exact precursor to the War on Drugs, only instituted without the benefit of a constitutional amendment. What do they suppose our being a "Christian nation" means?

Our country was almost overturned by an unholy triumvirate during Jackson's presidency under his vice president, John C. Calhoun, the National Bank under its president, Nicholas Biddle, and the Presbyterians with its theocratic leader, Ezra Stiles Ely. All this was swept under carpet by pro-theocratic historians on both sides and given the misleading label of the Nullification Crisis.

And Sen. McCarthy's witch hunts were very thinly disguised theocratic pogroms. The biggest objection they had to communism, besides its anti-American stance, was its atheism.

While theocrats are much less of a threat than socialists at this point, we need to maintain vigilance against both.

Calling a country a Christian nation is not attempting to establish a theocracy.

Again we come up against the wall of ignorance, represented in this case by a flagrant lack of knowledge of the topic being discussed:

"
Full Definition of THEOCRACY

1
: government of a state by immediate divine guidance or by officials who are regarded as divinely guided

2
: a state governed by a theocracy"

Theocracy - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Nope, defining us as a Christian nation is not establishing a goverment subject to immediate divine guidance, nor does it place officials who are regarded as DIVINELY GUIDED in power.

The anti-Christian bigots are using the term "theocracy" in the same way they use the word "hate speech". They use the term "hate speech" to define and criminalize any idea they don't agree with...

And they use the term "theocracy" to define and ultimately to criminalize any administration they don't agree with.

So far, nobody has provided any evidence of anyone attempting to establish a theocracy in the US.

I do see a lot of garbage and ignorance, however, and a mountain of evidence that the people who most hate Christianity are those who apparently are the least educated about the governance of our country, or Christian tenets.

 

[KNB]

Passing legislation that outlaws Sharia law? How stupid can Christians get?

 

[koshergrl]

I'm sure you think you have a point there, abu. Good luck making it.

 

[KNB]

If you're not trying to make America a Christian nation, then why do you use Christianity for every single argument that you make?

You want to ban Sharia law because we're a Christian nation. You want to ban abortion because it's against the Bible. You do all of these things because of your "faith" and yet you insist that the Bible doesn't rule every decision that you make. And all of your decisions are misguided because they come from the Bible which is fiction.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

KG likes to pose the question and then with each answer, move or narrow the goalposts and then go "you missed".

Establishing a theocracy (or any other -cracy) doesn't necessarily require legislation or Constitutional change. Not when it's done in practice in flagrant violation of the law, (as in that story I posted yesterday where a public school is running its own intramural theocracy).

Correct.

Examples of Christian fundamentalists and social conservatives seeking to create a theocracy can be found in their efforts to deny same-sex couples their equal protection rights, women their privacy rights, and relegate gay Americans to that of second-class citizens – all predicated solely on subjective religious dogma.

There is no rational, objective evidence in support of any of the above, consistent with that of a theocratic form of government.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Fortunately, the Christian theocracy has been losing for decades. Where and when I grew up, it was illegal to buy anything but gasoline and food on a Sunday. You could not even buy a spatula. It was a dry county, so you had to drive 25 miles for a can of beer. Every bar and nightclub downtown had to have all spirits off the tables by 11:45 Pm on Saturday night. Abortion was illegal. Segregation was declared "God's law" by men of the cloth. My brother was arrested for "occupying a dive" which was nothing but a beatnik coffee house where people recited poetry. Someone set a bomb off at the Jewish Temple on Peachtree Street in downtown Atlanta (an event that was part of the "Driving Miss Daisy" movie.)

Ah, yes! those were the good ol' days!

 

[JakeStarkey]

We are certainly a nation predominantly of Christians.

 

[Crystalclear]

If you're not trying to make America a Christian nation, then why do you use Christianity for every single argument that you make?

You want to ban Sharia law because we're a Christian nation. You want to ban abortion because it's against the Bible. You do all of these things because of your "faith" and yet you insist that the Bible doesn't rule every decision that you make. And all of your decisions are misguided because they come from the Bible which is fiction.

I agree with this. There are no good rational reasons to ban those things. And the US is already a theocracy if it is compared with for instance Europe (where I live). I guess you Americans don't even know how big the role of religion is in your country and politics.

 

[zeke]

Yeah you managed to mouth all that tripe without providing a single example...or even actually saying that they were attempting to substitute constitutional republicanism with theocracy.

so try again. Name me (specifically) who is trying to establish theocracy in this country. Tell me how they expect to affect it, who they think should be running the country in the name of God and by divine inspiration, and what organizations they belong to, and what violent movements they have made to further their cause.

One group that admits they believe in Theocracy is the Jehovah's Witnesses.
but they stay AWAY from voting and elections etc. because they don't believe in
the secular govt as their govt. They follow the laws and obey civil authority, but believe in following Jehovah through their organization and teachings they believe are right with God.

So they are not attempting to establish a theocracy in this country.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

PS...I don't think Jehovah's qualify as christians. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so.

YOU will not be included in the 144,000. (or whatever that number is)

They are really closet Muslims. I know, they carry the Bible. But it's just a cover. And the Watchtower. Secret communications for Muslims.

Next time they (Witnesses) comes to your door, tell'em you're Jewish. Fucks em up bad.

 

[MarcATL]

Please provide your evidence. Quotes and links of proposed legislation that seek to establish a theocracy in the US.

Thank you.

Well...for one thing...it's the Republicans who are always in the public sphere wailing and moaning about "Ammmurrrca being a Krisschun nayshun!"

It's not, yet...they keep screaming that is.

Why would they be doing that, if not to set the table for some sort of theocratic regime?

Dear MarcATL: What makes people or populations "Christian" is where we take laws to heart by conscience, and commit to living by them as our principles.

Where we seek to enforce laws by "agreement in truth"

You can see that we all naturally use this process, although secular thinkers may invoke "natural laws or Constitutional laws" while scriptural believers use the Bible as well.

Since Jesus represents the Lord/Law/Authority over ALL lords or laws,
then both the natural laws and the divine laws are fulfilled in the spirit
of "Jesus" or "Divine Justice."

Anyone who believes, seeks or demands "Justice" is in fact calling on Jesus.

There are differences in denomination according to WHICH LAWS we use to invoke the spirit of "Jesus or Justice" to fulfill.

And there is a political split between people who invoke
Retributive approaches to Justice or
Restorative approaches to Justice;
whether people rely on Government/State authority to invoke Justice
or people go through the Church leadership and body to establish Justice.

M, the problem I have found with secular liberals is if they
DON'T invoke authority directly through Constitutional laws (as with Christians who
use scriptural or Constitutional laws to enforce principles)
but they use their PARTY to defend or impose their views by POLITICAL FORCE.

If you put your PARTY above Constitutional principles and ethics,
this amounts to a religious war between religious denominations.

It is no longer invoking government authority by consent of all people
using the Constitutional standards and structures.

So that is where we are straying from our "Christian" base and foundation of laws
where the Constitutional laws derive govt authority from consent of the people.
if we continue to OVERRIDE CONSENT by abusing political parties,
this is oppressing and denying the democratic process of natural laws
that our Constitutional and govt was founded upon.

All Parties have been abused to this end; corrections cannot come from
continued abuse of political party, but must come from going back to the
Constitutional laws and principles we agree on, and use those to redress grievances to re-establish a consensus on law and government. All abuses of party and govt must stop.

I see where you're coming from, however, here's the thing...

The Constitution was setup TO BE subject to interpretation.

It was setup as a construct containing a basic set of principles and laws on which to base our actual laws, so by definition...it's a fluid document.

That's why there's a difference in how the authoritarian RW see The Constitution as a Biblical document, that cannot be changed, and why LWers are more prone to speak about changing it.

By definition, The Constitution was setup for change....it's constantly changing.

There's no force in that, it's simply the nature of things, and the difference in parties is where the conflict, for lack of a better term comes. Each losing side will perceive some "force", doesn't make it true.

Prime example, the racist Southerners of the Jim Crow deals perceived some "force" when the slavery law was abolished. The force was only real in their minds, the actual force was forcing blacks into slavery and racial oppression...real force, that the racist Southerners seemed to have no problem with.

Same thing applies to the theocracy issue now.

 

[MarcATL]

If you're not trying to make America a Christian nation, then why do you use Christianity for every single argument that you make?

You want to ban Sharia law because we're a Christian nation. You want to ban abortion because it's against the Bible. You do all of these things because of your "faith" and yet you insist that the Bible doesn't rule every decision that you make. And all of your decisions are misguided because they come from the Bible which is fiction.

Yet, when Obama mentioned, and stated the FACT that these people "cling to their guns and religion" they were outraged.

I believe it was feigned outrage, but they sure did make a big stink about it.

In my opinion, they made such a stink about it, because it was actually true.

They just wanted to have something to protest about Obama about, doesn't matter if it was true, false or somewhere in-between.

 

[MarcATL]

So they are not attempting to establish a theocracy in this country.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

PS...I don't think Jehovah's qualify as christians. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so.

Really?

Actually kosher, they do qualify as Christians.

What makes you believe they aren't?

I'm curious to know.

 

[boilermaker55]

Still, no matter what you post with your examples, can you cannot prove in any manner that no one has taken away your right to practice your faith.
Not in any way have you made your case.
What you have been doing it taking your faith outside of your house of worship and trying to push it onto others.

 

[bendog]

so did anyone find any nonsense to support KG's original nonsensical OP?

 

[daws101]

If you're not trying to make America a Christian nation, then why do you use Christianity for every single argument that you make?

You want to ban Sharia law because we're a Christian nation. You want to ban abortion because it's against the Bible. You do all of these things because of your "faith" and yet you insist that the Bible doesn't rule every decision that you make. And all of your decisions are misguided because they come from the Bible which is fiction.

Yet, when Obama mentioned, and stated the FACT that these people "cling to their guns and religion" they were outraged.

I believe it was feigned outrage, but they sure did make a big stink about it.

In my opinion, they made such a stink about it, because it was actually true.

They just wanted to have something to protest about Obama about, doesn't matter if it was true, false or somewhere in-between.

true the pres farts and they claim it's a show of weakness.

 

[daws101]

So they are not attempting to establish a theocracy in this country.

Thank you for agreeing with me.

PS...I don't think Jehovah's qualify as christians. I could be wrong on this, but I don't think so.

Really?

Actually kosher, they do qualify as Christians.

What makes you believe they aren't?

I'm curious to know.

kosher hag has nano sized definition of what Christians and Christianity are....

 

[daws101]

so did anyone find any nonsense to support KG's original nonsensical OP?

Marching As To War: The Attempted Christian Takeover of the U.S. Military | Atheist Oasis ? A Rational Refuge

 

[bendog]

Yeah, the RW Christian brigade inserted itself in the military. I agree with that.

But, theocracy. Note, I think KG's OP is tripe.