Thought Experiment

[ding]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

It would be illogical for God - who is logic - to create something that was a lie especially when it is not needed and would serve no purpose. That's how I know the universe was not created 10 minutes ago.

How do you know the universe wasn't created 10 minutes ago?

I don't know it wasn't. I don't know it sprang into being billions of years ago, either.

No one can know.

Sure we can know. God told us so. The simplest explanation is everything looks like it was created through a process because it was created through a process. There is no other explanation that would lead to a greater glory. God isn't trying to trick us. He told us he created the material world in steps and that's exactly what we see.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

Short answer: no

Longer answer: I'm really drawn to things that I'm really bad at. ha. Example: I am HORRID at math. So, this being the case, I love thinking about things like theoretical physics and astronomy because I barely passed algebra. So I have to skip all the stuff physicists actually DO--God love them--and just ponder their conclusions. (I have mad respect for their process though)

And they are:

They don't know. Dark matter--don't know. Dark energy--same. Universe expanding at a hugely rapid rate--they got nothing. How did life actually start--meh.

Oh--and the universe could be a hologram.

So yes. The universe being 10 minutes old is surely an outlier of a scenario. But not THAT much of one. And we would certainly have no way to prove it.

Finally! Someone gets it! Thank you, Sue.

The entire premise of the experiment is to show that we simply can't prove the origin of the universe.

People of faith (generally speaking) believe God created it, with varying beliefs of when that happened.

People who place their faith in science (generally speaking, again, though there's a significant overlap between the two groups. How much? Beats me) believe the origin of the universe was a natural phenomenon. They have theories that attempt to explain the existence of things we observe today, which change as new information is discovered, but they can only ever be theories.

Because we can't test them. We can't create our own universes in the lab. We can't go back in time to observe. If somebody invents time travel, great! But...where would he stand outside the primordial singularity? The universe wasn't there. No place for an observer to be, no framework to carry information to the observer. Not to mention the possibility of altering the timeline; a researcher's presence might influence the natural laws being established at the time. He might go back to his own time to find he'd never been born, or Earth was hostile to life, or had never even been formed at all.

The people who believe the science-based origin of the universe have to take it on faith. They read an article by scientists who publish their best guesses on why we see the things we see and how they may have come about. The readers probably don't understand the theory behind the guesses, but they trust the people who made the guesses, so they believe their ideas. They have faith in the science.

“History is the fiction we invent to persuade ourselves that events are knowable and that life has order and direction. That's why events are always reinterpreted when values change. We need new versions of history to allow for our current prejudices.”​

​

― Bill Watterson, Homicidal Psycho Jungle Cat​

Bill was right. It also applies to science. Theories and ideas fall into and out of favor.

On the other side, believers in a Creator know God built us this beautiful universe. They have faith in that idea. (Full disclosure: I'm one of them.) Some believe a literal interpretation of Genesis, doing the math and coming up with a few thousand years elapsed between creation and today. Some believe Genesis is allegory, not to be taken literally. Others still have a more amorphous idea of God, seeing an intelligence behind the design of the universe, but not necessarily a God who takes a personal interest in His creation. But we can't prove God exists, or He built the place. "The Biblical concept of faith is that it amounts to complete confidence in something for which there is no empirical or rational proof available." Faith precludes proof. Many people don't understand this.

People in this thread have come at it from both sides. Most have been hostile to the suggestion that what they know might not be right, and haven't been willing to consider it.

But y'all can relax. We simply can't undeniably know where this all came from. You don't have to believe me. But it's pretty much inarguable.

I'm content believing I can ask God when I meet him. I'd like to ask Him to let me into His video library and watch Creation for myself.

It'll be unimaginably beautiful.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

It would be illogical for God - who is logic - to create something that was a lie especially when it is not needed and would serve no purpose. That's how I know the universe was not created 10 minutes ago.

How do you know the universe wasn't created 10 minutes ago?

I don't know it wasn't. I don't know it sprang into being billions of years ago, either.

No one can know.

Sure we can know. God told us so. The simplest explanation is everything looks like it was created through a process because it was created through a process. There is no other explanation that would lead to a greater glory. God isn't trying to trick us. He told us he created the material world in steps and that's exactly what we see.

I agree. But that wasn't the purpose of this thread.

 

[BreezeWood]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.
why the hostility, sorry to hear you reached your limits that's what happens to solutions found in a book written for them to find.

good luck with your finite mind.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.
why the hostility, sorry to hear you reached your limits that's what happens to solutions found in a book written for them to find.

good luck with your finite mind.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

 

[BreezeWood]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.
why the hostility, sorry to hear you reached your limits that's what happens to solutions found in a book written for them to find.

good luck with your finite mind.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.
you are who has limited your ability to reason, sortof circling the wagons in defeat - not for everyone, good luck.

purity has no limits. and is eternal.

 

[onefour1]

You should have said, "and do this experiment without having any faith in God".

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.
why the hostility, sorry to hear you reached your limits that's what happens to solutions found in a book written for them to find.

good luck with your finite mind.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.
you are who has limited your ability to reason, sortof circling the wagons in defeat - not for everyone, good luck.

purity has no limits. and is eternal.

So you DO believe you can comprehend the infinite.

What led you to this conclusion?

 

[daveman]

You should have said, "and do this experiment without having any faith in God".

I explained my purpose in Post #62.

 

[BreezeWood]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.
why the hostility, sorry to hear you reached your limits that's what happens to solutions found in a book written for them to find.

good luck with your finite mind.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.
you are who has limited your ability to reason, sortof circling the wagons in defeat - not for everyone, good luck.

purity has no limits. and is eternal.

So you DO believe you can comprehend the infinite.

What led you to this conclusion?

.

So you DO believe you can comprehend the infinite.

What led you to this conclusion?

.
the spoken, prescribed religion of antiquity - spiritual admission to the Everlasting.
.

purity has no limits. and is eternal.

.
* Hint ...

 

[Grumblenuts]

The entire premise of the experiment is to show that we simply can't prove the origin of the universe.

Obviously religious "faith" based belief presumes your conclusion making it a silly exercise in circular reasoning. Otherwise, scientific inquiry presumes right upfront that we can't absolutely "know" anything natural empirically or objectively. The purpose is always just to gain better understandings. To dispose of what makes no sense to the best of our collective ability through an endless process of elimination. We then continue trying to improve upon and falsify what remains.

 

[daveman]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

A fish does not know it is wet. So a fish would never try to prove it was or wasn't wet.

Same thing applies here.

A thought experiment is a hypothetical situation in which a hypothesis, theory,[1] or principle is laid out for the purpose of thinking through its consequences.

You can call it a thought experiment but it's a paradox and like most paradox an invalid argument.

But if you want a valid answer to an invalid premise I could disprove it because it wouldn't be logical and God is logical.

Disprove it, then.

Ok... if God wanted to convey His glory and power by creating a universe all at once, God would have created the universe to look like it was created all at once. There would be no logical purpose to create a universe all at once and make it look like it wasn't. So it would be illogical for God to create a universe in this manner.

A greater demonstration of power and glory would be willing existence into being such that everything unfolded logically over time according to God's plan through the act of creation and the laws of nature.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

So then you don't agree that the Bible tells us that God revealed himself to man and revealed that he created everything for His glory?

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

.
then your personal - whats - are. what might those be.
.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

.
what finite mind, good luck with that one ... how about underdeveloped.

My beliefs are, again, immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.

A finite mind cannot comprehend an infinite mind. Who can say what the creator's purpose is?

I suggest you go look up the meaning of the word "finite".

.
why the hostility, sorry to hear you reached your limits that's what happens to solutions found in a book written for them to find.

good luck with your finite mind.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.

No hostility. It's such a simply statement of fact.

My personal beliefs are immaterial to the purpose of this thread.

I do okay with my finite mind. Do you believe you can comprehend the infinite?

.
you are who has limited your ability to reason, sortof circling the wagons in defeat - not for everyone, good luck.

purity has no limits. and is eternal.

So you DO believe you can comprehend the infinite.

What led you to this conclusion?

.

So you DO believe you can comprehend the infinite.

What led you to this conclusion?

.
the spoken, prescribed religion of antiquity - spiritual admission to the Everlasting.
.

purity has no limits. and is eternal.

.
* Hint ...

To claim a finite mind can comprehend the infinite is like claiming a 5-gallon bucket can hold a hundred gallons of water.

And your mind is indeed finite. If you believe otherwise, you're fooling only yourself.

 

[daveman]

The entire premise of the experiment is to show that we simply can't prove the origin of the universe.

Obviously religious "faith" based belief presumes your conclusion making it a silly exercise in circular reasoning. Otherwise, scientific inquiry presumes right upfront that we can't absolutely "know" anything natural empirically or objectively. The purpose is always just to gain better understandings. To dispose of what makes no sense to the best of our collective ability through an endless process of elimination. We then continue trying to improve upon and falsify what remains.

How can you falsify things you can't experiment with? All you have are guesses.

 

[surada]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

but there is no evidence its billions of yrs old,,

"Thought experiment".

but evo's cant think,, they can only repeat what theyre told,,

What does that mean? Do you think man co-existed with the dinosaurs?

 

[Wuwei]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

There are lots of what-ifs in science that are not testable. Your what-if is not new and has been expound on in creationist sites.

Science doesn't prove anything. Science creates models of how things behave. You can "prove" the mathematics of EM theory gives correct energy levels of atoms. But that is not the sort of proof you are asking,

If you want to talk about the reality behind physical models then you are involved in metaphysics which generally isn't testable or provable. You really don't have much of a point.

.

 

[HaShev]

In this experiment, there was no universe and therefore nothing existed 11 minutes ago. No matter, no energy, no physical space.

Then God created the universe 10 minutes ago, exactly as it is right now, with all the evidence it's billions of years old built-in, with the light from distant stars created in transit, and us with all our memories of a lifetime in place.

Now...how could you disprove this? NOTE: Emotions are not proof. Hostility to God and insistence He's not real is not proof.

I can prove my most finite expression of the (Essence) source and power of life created your God, therefore your God can't be the source if something created it.

 

[daveman]

There are lots of what-ifs in science that are not testable. Your what-if is not new and has been expound on in creationist sites.

Science doesn't prove anything. Science creates models of how things behave. You can "prove" the mathematics of EM theory gives correct energy levels of atoms. But that is not the sort of proof you are asking,

If you want to talk about the reality behind physical models then you are involved in metaphysics which generally isn't testable or provable. You really don't have much of a point.

.

Uh huh.

 

[daveman]

I can prove my most finite expression of the (Essence) source and power of life created your God, therefore your God can't be the source if something created it.

Sure.

 

[sear]

He told us he created the material world in steps and that's exactly what we see.

No.
Not "exactly". The biblical steps took 6 days. god got a 6 pack and watched an ice hockey game on the 7th day.

Bishop Ussher studied biblical chronology and determined Genesis occurred 4004 BC.

BUT !!

The Grand Canyon is a record of time. Follow the geological strata down from the rim to the wet stuff, and it's obvious orders of magnitude more time elapsed than the 6,000 year biblical account.
Many orders of magnitude.

 

[ding]

No.
Not "exactly". The biblical steps took 6 days. god got a 6 pack and watched an ice hockey game on the 7th day.

Bishop Ussher studied biblical chronology and determined Genesis occurred 4004 BC.

BUT !!

The Grand Canyon is a record of time. Follow the geological strata down from the rim to the wet stuff, and it's obvious orders of magnitude more time elapsed than the 6,000 year biblical account.
Many orders of magnitude.

It's an allegorical account just as the tower of babel and the account of the flood are allegorical accounts.