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The problem is that Kleck and Lott are debunked.
There is no way to break down the supposed daily 6650 gun pulls "in defense", that is even if that is the correct number.
The number may be less than 10% of that, and we don't know how many are drug dealers protecting their stash.
The problem is that Kleck and Lott are debunked.
There is no way to break down the supposed daily 6650 gun pulls "in defense", that is even if that is the correct number.
The number may be less than 10% of that, and we don't know how many are drug dealers protecting their stash.
So what? The FACTS are that the UK have a much lower gun murder rate, and the distance is not closing quickly.The murder rate of the UK in the 50's was lower than it is now despite all their many gun laws which they started passing in the 60's The UK and the US are far from homogeneous Ignoring the societal, economic and political differences between the two nations and stating that the sole differences are gun ownership and gun laws is simplistic at bestUK still has much less gun ownership rates and much less homicide rates.
Kleck and Lott are disproven bunk.
Yes they have always had lower gun ownership rates, and much lower homicide rates. Seems like a winning formula all over the world. We have millions of imaginary defenses and 5X as many homicides as the UK.All these defenses are so effective that our homicide rate is 5X that of the UK....lucky us.
Britain always had a low gun murder rate, until they banned guns, then it went up...as did their gun crime and their violent crime.....you saw the links, you know the facts, you pretend you don't, so you are lying.......you are a moron.
And if no one is caught tried and convicted there is no crime at least as far as statistics are concernedIf a crime is prevented by use of a gun then a crime never happened to be reportedAnd again, the anti gunner has to lie...because the truth, the facts and the reality do not support his beliefs about guns...
CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns
Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?"
Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job.
Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.
Kleck's "study" found more than 3 million incidents of DGU per year, which is 3 times more than the number of violent crimes committed per year.
Not really true as attempting a crime is still a crime. If I attempt to rob a bank and fail, then I still committed a crime.
That is not true, a reported rape is still counted in the stats even if the rapist is never found
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And if no one is caught tried and convicted there is no crime at least as far as statistics are concernedIf a crime is prevented by use of a gun then a crime never happened to be reportedAnd again, the anti gunner has to lie...because the truth, the facts and the reality do not support his beliefs about guns...
CDC, in Surveys It Never Bothered Making Public, Provides More Evidence That Plenty of Americans Innocently Defend Themselves with Guns
Kleck was impressed with how well the survey worded its question: "During the last 12 months, have you confronted another person with a firearm, even if you did not fire it, to protect yourself, your property, or someone else?"
Respondents were told to leave out incidents from occupations, like policing, where using firearms is part of the job.
Kleck is impressed with how the question excludes animals but includes DGUs outside the home as well as within it.
Kleck's "study" found more than 3 million incidents of DGU per year, which is 3 times more than the number of violent crimes committed per year.
Not really true as attempting a crime is still a crime. If I attempt to rob a bank and fail, then I still committed a crime.
That is not true, a reported rape is still counted in the stats even if the rapist is never found
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
The problem is that Kleck and Lott are debunked.
There is no way to break down the supposed daily 6650 gun pulls "in defense", that is even if that is the correct number.
The number may be less than 10% of that, and we don't know how many are drug dealers protecting their stash.
So what? The FACTS are that the UK have a much lower gun murder rate, and the distance is not closing quickly.The murder rate of the UK in the 50's was lower than it is now despite all their many gun laws which they started passing in the 60's The UK and the US are far from homogeneous Ignoring the societal, economic and political differences between the two nations and stating that the sole differences are gun ownership and gun laws is simplistic at bestUK still has much less gun ownership rates and much less homicide rates.
Kleck and Lott are disproven bunk.
Without any proof, this "that defensive gun use happens at least as often as offensive criminal use of a gun and that people who defend themselves with a firearm suffer less injury than those that use other means" does not differentiate between defense and criminal uses of guns.
Thank you, Skull Pilot. If there is no way to confirm or deny the number, then Kleck (or Lott) are irrelevant, and the OP is a goofy nutter of a post.
Without any proof, this "that defensive gun use happens at least as often as offensive criminal use of a gun and that people who defend themselves with a firearm suffer less injury than those that use other means" does not differentiate between defense and criminal uses of guns.
Here we have a look at the CDC hiding the results of 3 years of research into defensive gun use......the author points out that Dr. Kleck had to dig out the information from the CDC
GUN WATCH: CDC Failed to Report Strong Evidence of Defensive Gun Uses
The paragraph above does not rule out the surveys done by the CDC. It says that "more than 19 national surveys" not "19 national surveys". Were the authors aware of the CDC surveys done in 1996, 1997, and 1998, that essentially confirmed the estimates made by Kleck and Gertz in the 1995 paper?
The timing and size of the surveys done by the CDC is fascinating. They were done immediately after Kleck and Gertz published their paper. There were three of them. The one in 1996 was the largest ever done. 5,884 people were asked the DGU question. The total number of people asked in the three surveys done by the CDC was 12,870. All were asked the same question. It is as if a single very large survey was done, over three years. Kleck and Gertz' survey asked their DGU questions of 4,977 people.
Kleck goes into considerable detail about how his survey, done in 1993 (published in 1995) differs from the CDC survey. For example, in the CDC survey, only those people who admitted to having a gun in the home were asked the DGU question.
=======
Having read the Kleck and Gertz paper, I often wished that someone would do another survey, to broaden the sample, to provide more data.
Now we find the CDC did three such surveys. All of them validated the Kleck and Gertz survey. One large survey, such as the one by Kleck and Gertz, is indicative. Four of them show scientific replication and add to certainty. We were never told of the results of the confirming surveys done by the CDC.
Gary Kleck, as a scientist, a Democrat, and a proponent of a number of gun control measures, is careful not to cast aspersions on the CDC. He does not accuse anyone of malfeasance. He notes the surveys were done during the Clinton administration, and these findings would have worked against the gun control agenda of the administration. Someone at the CDC made the decision not to publish these results.
Kleck, while doing research, happened to come across the DGU question in a historical CDC survey, online, 21 years after the CDC surveys had been completed.
He was intrigued, and was able to find the original surveys done in 1996, 1997, 1998, and all the results.
It has to be gratifying to Dr. Kleck, to see his results validated after more than two decades. It may be infuriating to know these results were available from 1997 to 1999, and were never made public.
Here we have a look at the CDC hiding the results of 3 years of research into defensive gun use......the author points out that Dr. Kleck had to dig out the information from the CDC
GUN WATCH: CDC Failed to Report Strong Evidence of Defensive Gun Uses
The paragraph above does not rule out the surveys done by the CDC. It says that "more than 19 national surveys" not "19 national surveys". Were the authors aware of the CDC surveys done in 1996, 1997, and 1998, that essentially confirmed the estimates made by Kleck and Gertz in the 1995 paper?
The timing and size of the surveys done by the CDC is fascinating. They were done immediately after Kleck and Gertz published their paper. There were three of them. The one in 1996 was the largest ever done. 5,884 people were asked the DGU question. The total number of people asked in the three surveys done by the CDC was 12,870. All were asked the same question. It is as if a single very large survey was done, over three years. Kleck and Gertz' survey asked their DGU questions of 4,977 people.
Kleck goes into considerable detail about how his survey, done in 1993 (published in 1995) differs from the CDC survey. For example, in the CDC survey, only those people who admitted to having a gun in the home were asked the DGU question.
=======
Having read the Kleck and Gertz paper, I often wished that someone would do another survey, to broaden the sample, to provide more data.
Now we find the CDC did three such surveys. All of them validated the Kleck and Gertz survey. One large survey, such as the one by Kleck and Gertz, is indicative. Four of them show scientific replication and add to certainty. We were never told of the results of the confirming surveys done by the CDC.
Gary Kleck, as a scientist, a Democrat, and a proponent of a number of gun control measures, is careful not to cast aspersions on the CDC. He does not accuse anyone of malfeasance. He notes the surveys were done during the Clinton administration, and these findings would have worked against the gun control agenda of the administration. Someone at the CDC made the decision not to publish these results.
Kleck, while doing research, happened to come across the DGU question in a historical CDC survey, online, 21 years after the CDC surveys had been completed.
He was intrigued, and was able to find the original surveys done in 1996, 1997, 1998, and all the results.
It has to be gratifying to Dr. Kleck, to see his results validated after more than two decades. It may be infuriating to know these results were available from 1997 to 1999, and were never made public.
If yea are such fans of research why was the Dickie Amendment brought in a Republican and heavilly lobbied for by the NRA...
In United States politics, the Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."
Lets call it...
You don't care about research otherwise you would be looking at something less than 20 years old...
2aguy has only something twenty years old and that wrong.
Now he has been spamming since last night because he has lost this debate a long time ago.
Here we have a look at the CDC hiding the results of 3 years of research into defensive gun use......the author points out that Dr. Kleck had to dig out the information from the CDC
GUN WATCH: CDC Failed to Report Strong Evidence of Defensive Gun Uses
The paragraph above does not rule out the surveys done by the CDC. It says that "more than 19 national surveys" not "19 national surveys". Were the authors aware of the CDC surveys done in 1996, 1997, and 1998, that essentially confirmed the estimates made by Kleck and Gertz in the 1995 paper?
The timing and size of the surveys done by the CDC is fascinating. They were done immediately after Kleck and Gertz published their paper. There were three of them. The one in 1996 was the largest ever done. 5,884 people were asked the DGU question. The total number of people asked in the three surveys done by the CDC was 12,870. All were asked the same question. It is as if a single very large survey was done, over three years. Kleck and Gertz' survey asked their DGU questions of 4,977 people.
Kleck goes into considerable detail about how his survey, done in 1993 (published in 1995) differs from the CDC survey. For example, in the CDC survey, only those people who admitted to having a gun in the home were asked the DGU question.
=======
Having read the Kleck and Gertz paper, I often wished that someone would do another survey, to broaden the sample, to provide more data.
Now we find the CDC did three such surveys. All of them validated the Kleck and Gertz survey. One large survey, such as the one by Kleck and Gertz, is indicative. Four of them show scientific replication and add to certainty. We were never told of the results of the confirming surveys done by the CDC.
Gary Kleck, as a scientist, a Democrat, and a proponent of a number of gun control measures, is careful not to cast aspersions on the CDC. He does not accuse anyone of malfeasance. He notes the surveys were done during the Clinton administration, and these findings would have worked against the gun control agenda of the administration. Someone at the CDC made the decision not to publish these results.
Kleck, while doing research, happened to come across the DGU question in a historical CDC survey, online, 21 years after the CDC surveys had been completed.
He was intrigued, and was able to find the original surveys done in 1996, 1997, 1998, and all the results.
It has to be gratifying to Dr. Kleck, to see his results validated after more than two decades. It may be infuriating to know these results were available from 1997 to 1999, and were never made public.
If yea are such fans of research why was the Dickie Amendment brought in a Republican and heavilly lobbied for by the NRA...
In United States politics, the Dickey Amendment is a provision first inserted as a rider into the 1996 federal government omnibus spending bill which mandated that "none of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) may be used to advocate or promote gun control."
Lets call it...
You don't care about research otherwise you would be looking at something less than 20 years old...
