Time history of atmospheric carbon dioxide from 800,000 years to the present

[ScienceRocks]

At 10ppm/every 5 years...We will reach 500 ppm by 2064.

 

[SSDD]

And it won't make a whit of difference. The ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 over 1000ppm. CO2 does not and never has driven the climate.

 

[ScienceRocks]

And it won't make a whit of difference. The ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 over 1000ppm. CO2 does not and never has driven the climate.

The ice age started around 30 million years ago and at that time it was at over 1000ppm. Just that I believe that the reality that it dropped below that was the reason for the ice age.

 

[jc456]

And it won't make a whit of difference. The ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 over 1000ppm. CO2 does not and never has driven the climate.

The ice age started around 30 million years ago and at that time it was at over 1000ppm. Just that I believe that the reality that it dropped below that was the reason for the ice age.

Well, since temperature drives CO2, as it got colder the CO2 was not released from the oceans and soil since it was cold and icy. Seems you would understand that.

 

[ScienceRocks]

And it won't make a whit of difference. The ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 over 1000ppm. CO2 does not and never has driven the climate.

The ice age started around 30 million years ago and at that time it was at over 1000ppm. Just that I believe that the reality that it dropped below that was the reason for the ice age.

Well, since temperature drives CO2, as it got colder the CO2 was not released from the oceans and soil since it was cold and icy. Seems you would understand that.

Both feed back on each other...

 

[jc456]

The ice age started around 30 million years ago and at that time it was at over 1000ppm. Just that I believe that the reality that it dropped below that was the reason for the ice age.

Well, since temperature drives CO2, as it got colder the CO2 was not released from the oceans and soil since it was cold and icy. Seems you would understand that.

Both feed back on each other...

CO2 lags temperature.

 

[Crick]

Yes it does. It also leads temperature.

 

[jc456]

Yes it does. It also leads temperature.

sure!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Yes it does. It also leads temperature.

Not according to the Ice core records, or is that a denier also?

 

[Crick]

Why does this simple point have to be so difficult? Unless you wish to reject the greenhouse effect or reject the characterization of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, you have to accept that CO2 causes warming and thus can lead temperature.

There are two different processes taking place. When you increase the temperature of a liquid, you decrease it's ability to hold gases in solution. So when the world gets warmer, from an orbital change for instance, it causes dissolved gases to come out of solution in the oceans and enter the atmosphere. Thus we see CO2 levels increase after Milankovitch orbital changes have raised the Earth's temperature.

CO2 in the atmosphere, like all greenhouse gases, absorb infrared light. Thus, as the level of CO2 and other GHGs in the atmosphere increase, increasing amounts of infrared energy is trapped in the atmosphere and warms the air, the land and the oceans.

In fact, research by a number of scientists have shown that on those occasions we see in the ice cores, where warming causes CO2 levels to increase, the increased CO2 eventually begins to cause its own warming - via the greenhouse effect - and that greenhouse warming becomes the dominant process, causing the planet to warm significantly more than it would have had their been no greenhouse gases present.

But, in any case, the fact that increasing temperatures cause atmospheric CO2 levels to rise, does NOT preclude CO2 from causing increased temperatures.

 

[jc456]

Why does this simple point have to be so difficult? Unless you wish to reject the greenhouse effect or reject the characterization of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, you have to accept that CO2 causes warming and thus can lead temperature.

There are two different processes taking place. When you increase the temperature of a liquid, you decrease it's ability to hold gases in solution. So when the world gets warmer, from an orbital change for instance, it causes dissolved gases to come out of solution in the oceans and enter the atmosphere. Thus we see CO2 levels increase after Milankovitch orbital changes have raised the Earth's temperature.

CO2 in the atmosphere, like all greenhouse gases, absorb infrared light. Thus, as the level of CO2 and other GHGs in the atmosphere increase, increasing amounts of infrared energy is trapped in the atmosphere and warms the air, the land and the oceans.

In fact, research by a number of scientists have shown that on those occasions we see in the ice cores, where warming causes CO2 levels to increase, the increased CO2 eventually begins to cause its own warming - via the greenhouse effect - and that greenhouse warming becomes the dominant process, causing the planet to warm significantly more than it would have had their been no greenhouse gases present.

But, in any case, the fact that increasing temperatures cause atmospheric CO2 levels to rise, does NOT preclude CO2 from causing increased temperatures.

It never stops does it. Uses of words like significant is so outstanding with you all. Prove it. Prove the significant statement you use. The heck with all of the other mumbo jumbo you wrote, it is that word that is just outstanding. You have no evidence to support CO2 causes increases in temperature, yet here you are saying it significantly does. "Significantly" Now that's just funny. One experiment that proves that, pretty please.

 

[Crick]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide#In_the_Earth.27s_atmosphere

In the Earth's atmosphere

Carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere is considered a trace gas currently occurring at an average concentration of about 400 parts per million by volume[1] (or 591 parts per million by mass). The total mass of atmospheric carbon dioxide is 3.16×1015 kg (about 3,000 gigatonnes). Its concentration varies seasonally and also considerably on a regional basis, especially near the ground. In urban areas concentrations are generally higher and indoors they can reach 10 times background levels. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.

As of March 2014, carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere is at a concentration of approximately 400 ppm by volume.[1] Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide fluctuate slightly with the change of the seasons, driven primarily by seasonal plant growth in the Northern Hemisphere. Concentrations of carbon dioxide fall during the northern spring and summer as plants consume the gas, and rise during the northern autumn and winter as plants go dormant, die and decay. Taking all this into account, the concentration of CO2 grew by about 2 ppm in 2009.[36] "The main cause of the current global warming trend is human expansion of the "greenhouse effect" warming that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space."[37] Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas as it is transparent to incoming visible light from the sun, but absorbs outgoing infrared radiation from the ground at its two infrared-active vibrational frequencies (see Structure and bonding above). As for all gases, the absorbed energy can be redistributed by molecular collisions which heat the atmosphere.[38]

Before the advent of human-caused release of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, concentrations tended to increase with increasing global temperatures, acting as a positive feedback for changes induced by other processes such as orbital cycles.[39] There is a seasonal cycle in CO2 concentration associated primarily with the Northern Hemisphere growing season.[40]

Five hundred million years ago carbon dioxide was 20 times more prevalent than today, decreasing to 4–5 times during the Jurassic period and then slowly declining with a particularly swift reduction occurring 49 million years ago.[41][42] Human activities such as the combustion of fossil fuels and deforestation have caused the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide to increase by about 35% since the beginning of the age of industrialization.[43]

Up to 40% of the gas emitted by some volcanoes during subaerial eruptions is carbon dioxide.[44] It is estimated that volcanoes release about 130–230 million tonnes (145–255 million short tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. Carbon dioxide is also produced by hot springs such as those at the Bossoleto site near Rapolano Terme in Tuscany, Italy. Here, in a bowl-shaped depression of about 100 m diameter, local concentrations of CO2 rise to above 75% overnight, sufficient to kill insects and small animals, but it warms rapidly when sunlit and the gas is dispersed by convection during the day.[45] Locally high concentrations of CO2, produced by disturbance of deep lake water saturated with CO2 are thought to have caused 37 fatalities at Lake Monoun, Cameroon in 1984 and 1700 casualties at Lake Nyos, Cameroon in 1986.[46] Emissions of CO2 by human activities are estimated to be 135 times greater than the quantity emitted by volcanoes.[47]

The cement industry is one of the three primary producers of carbon dioxide along with the energy production and transportation industries. As of 2011 concrete contributes 7% to global anthropogenic CO2 emissions.[48]

References:

1) National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) – Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL), Trends in Carbon Dioxide Values given are dry air mole fractions expressed in parts per million (ppm). For an ideal gas mixture this is equivalent to parts per million by volume (ppmv).
36) "Annual Mean Growth Rate for Mauna Loa, Hawaii". Trends in Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide. NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory. Retrieved 28 April 2010.
37) Jenkins, Amber. "Global Climate Change". Randal Jackson. Retrieved 10-5-13.
38) Climate Change Indicators in the United States. EPA.gov
39) Genthon, G.; Barnola, J. M.; Raynaud, D.; Lorius, C.; Jouzel, J.; Barkov, N. I.; Korotkevich, Y. S.; Kotlyakov, V. M. (1987). "Vostok ice core: climatic response to CO2 and orbital forcing changes over the last climatic cycle". Nature 329 (6138): 414. Bibcode:1987Natur.329..414G. doi:10.1038/329414a0. edit
40) Enting, I. G. (1987). "The interannual variation in the seasonal cycle of carbon dioxide concentration at Mauna Loa". Journal of Geophysical Research 92: 5497–5504. doi:10.1029/JD092iD05p05497. edit
41) "Climate and CO2 in the Atmosphere". Retrieved 2007-10-10.
42) Berner, Robert A.; Kothavala, Zavareth (2001). "GEOCARB III: A revised model of atmospheric CO2 over Phanerozoic Time" (PDF). American Journal of Science 301 (2): 182–204. doi:10.2475/ajs.301.2.182. Retrieved 2008-02-15.
43) "After two large annual gains, rate of atmospheric CO2 increase returns to average". NOAA News Online, Story 2412. 2005-03-31.
44) Sigurdsson, Haraldur; Houghton, B. F. (2000). Encyclopedia of volcanoes. San Diego: Academic Press. ISBN 0-12-643140-X.
45) van Gardingen, P.R.; Grace, J.; Jeffree, C.E.; Byari, S.H.; Miglietta, F.; Raschi, A.; Bettarini, I. (1997). "Long-term effects of enhanced CO2 concentrations on leaf gas exchange: research opportunities using CO2 springs". In Raschi, A.; Miglietta, F.; Tognetti, R.; van Gardingen, P.R. (Eds.). Plant responses to elevated CO2: Evidence from natural springs. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 69–86. ISBN 0-521-58203-2.
46) Martini, M. (1997). "CO2 emissions in volcanic areas: case histories and hazards". In Raschi, A.; Miglietta, F.; Tognetti, R.; van Gardingen, P.R. (Eds.). Plant responses to elevated CO2: Evidence from natural springs. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 69–86. ISBN 0-521-58203-2.
47) "Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview". US Geological Survey. Retrieved 2013-02-26.
48) Navdeep Kaur Dhami; Sudhakara M. Reddy; Abhijit Mukherjee. "Biofilm and Microbial Applications in Biomineralized Concrete". p. 142.

 

[Crick]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_effect

The greenhouse effect is a process by which thermal radiation from a planetary surface is absorbed by atmospheric greenhouse gases, and is re-radiated in all directions. Since part of this re-radiation is back towards the surface and the lower atmosphere, it results in an elevation of the average surface temperature above what it would be in the absence of the gases.[1][2]

Solar radiation at the frequencies of visible light largely passes through the atmosphere to warm the planetary surface, which then emits this energy at the lower frequencies of infrared thermal radiation. Infrared radiation is absorbed by greenhouse gases, which in turn re-radiate much of the energy to the surface and lower atmosphere. The mechanism is named after the effect of solar radiation passing through glass and warming a greenhouse, but the way it retains heat is fundamentally different as a greenhouse works by reducing airflow, isolating the warm air inside the structure so that heat is not lost by convection.[2][3][4]

If an ideal thermally conductive blackbody were the same distance from the Sun as the Earth is, it would have a temperature of about 5.3 °C. However, since the Earth reflects about 30%[5][6] of the incoming sunlight, this idealized planet's effective temperature (the temperature of a blackbody that would emit the same amount of radiation) would be about −18 °C.[7][8] The surface temperature of this hypothetical planet is 33 °C below Earth's actual surface temperature of approximately 14 °C.[9] The mechanism that produces this difference between the actual surface temperature and the effective temperature is due to the atmosphere and is known as the greenhouse effect.[10]

Earth’s natural greenhouse effect makes life as we know it possible. However, human activities, primarily the burning of fossil fuels and clearing of forests, have intensified the natural greenhouse effect, causing global warming.[11]

Atmospheric gases only absorb some wavelengths of energy but are transparent to others. The absorption patterns of water vapor (blue peaks) and carbon dioxide (pink peaks) overlap in some wavelengths. Carbon dioxide is not as strong a greenhouse gas as water vapor, but it absorbs energy in wavelengths (12-15 micrometers) that water vapor does not, partially closing the “window” through which heat radiated by the surface would normally escape to space. (Illustration NASA, Robert Rohde)[23]

********************************

The data in the graph above is a measure of solar energy - by wavelength - absorbed by CO2 and water vapor. Experiments measuring solar energy absorbed by CO2 and other greenhouse gases have been conducted since the mid 1800s.

 

[SSDD]

And it won't make a whit of difference. The ice age we are presently exiting began with CO2 over 1000ppm. CO2 does not and never has driven the climate.

The ice age started around 30 million years ago and at that time it was at over 1000ppm. Just that I believe that the reality that it dropped below that was the reason for the ice age.

Look further back...previous ice ages began with CO2 above 2000ppm and above 4000ppm. CO2 doesn't drive the climate.

 

[SSDD]

Why does this simple point have to be so difficult? Unless you wish to reject the greenhouse effect or reject the characterization of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, you have to accept that CO2 causes warming and thus can lead temperature.

The greenhouse effect has never been either remeasured or quantified. It is an ad hoc construct based on a flawed mathematical model...never demonstrated to be real.

 

[SSDD]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide#In_the_Earth.27s_atmosphere

In the Earth's atmosphere

Carbon dioxide in Earth's atmosphere is considered a trace gas currently occurring at an average concentration of about 400 parts per million by volume[1] (or 591 parts per million by mass). The total mass of atmospheric carbon dioxide is 3.16×1015 kg (about 3,000 gigatonnes). Its concentration varies seasonally and also considerably on a regional basis, especially near the ground. In urban areas concentrations are generally higher and indoors they can reach 10 times background levels. Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas.

As of March 2014, carbon dioxide in the Earth's atmosphere is at a concentration of approximately 400 ppm by volume.[1] Atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide fluctuate slightly with the change of the seasons, driven primarily by seasonal plant growth in the Northern Hemisphere. Concentrations of carbon dioxide fall during the northern spring and summer as plants consume the gas, and rise during the northern autumn and winter as plants go dormant, die and decay. Taking all this into account, the concentration of CO2 grew by about 2 ppm in 2009.[36] "The main cause of the current global warming trend is human expansion of the "greenhouse effect" warming that results when the atmosphere traps heat radiating from Earth toward space."[37] Carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas as it is transparent to incoming visible light from the sun, but absorbs outgoing infrared radiation from the ground at its two infrared-active vibrational frequencies (see Structure and bonding above). As for all gases, the absorbed energy can be redistributed by molecular collisions which heat the atmosphere.[38]

Before the advent of human-caused release of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, concentrations tended to increase with increasing global temperatures, acting as a positive feedback for changes induced by other processes such as orbital cycles.[39] There is a seasonal cycle in CO2 concentration associated primarily with the Northern Hemisphere growing season.[40]

Five hundred million years ago carbon dioxide was 20 times more prevalent than today, decreasing to 4–5 times during the Jurassic period and then slowly declining with a particularly swift reduction occurring 49 million years ago.[41][42] Human activities such as the combustion of fossil fuels and deforestation have caused the atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide to increase by about 35% since the beginning of the age of industrialization.[43]

Up to 40% of the gas emitted by some volcanoes during subaerial eruptions is carbon dioxide.[44] It is estimated that volcanoes release about 130–230 million tonnes (145–255 million short tons) of CO2 into the atmosphere each year. Carbon dioxide is also produced by hot springs such as those at the Bossoleto site near Rapolano Terme in Tuscany, Italy. Here, in a bowl-shaped depression of about 100 m diameter, local concentrations of CO2 rise to above 75% overnight, sufficient to kill insects and small animals, but it warms rapidly when sunlit and the gas is dispersed by convection during the day.[45] Locally high concentrations of CO2, produced by disturbance of deep lake water saturated with CO2 are thought to have caused 37 fatalities at Lake Monoun, Cameroon in 1984 and 1700 casualties at Lake Nyos, Cameroon in 1986.[46] Emissions of CO2 by human activities are estimated to be 135 times greater than the quantity emitted by volcanoes.[47]

The cement industry is one of the three primary producers of carbon dioxide along with the energy production and transportation industries. As of 2011 concrete contributes 7% to global anthropogenic CO2 emissions.[48]

References:

1) National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) – Earth System Research Laboratory (ESRL), Trends in Carbon Dioxide Values given are dry air mole fractions expressed in parts per million (ppm). For an ideal gas mixture this is equivalent to parts per million by volume (ppmv).
36) "Annual Mean Growth Rate for Mauna Loa, Hawaii". Trends in Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide. NOAA Earth System Research Laboratory. Retrieved 28 April 2010.
37) Jenkins, Amber. "Global Climate Change". Randal Jackson. Retrieved 10-5-13.
38) Climate Change Indicators in the United States. EPA.gov
39) Genthon, G.; Barnola, J. M.; Raynaud, D.; Lorius, C.; Jouzel, J.; Barkov, N. I.; Korotkevich, Y. S.; Kotlyakov, V. M. (1987). "Vostok ice core: climatic response to CO2 and orbital forcing changes over the last climatic cycle". Nature 329 (6138): 414. Bibcode:1987Natur.329..414G. doi:10.1038/329414a0. edit
40) Enting, I. G. (1987). "The interannual variation in the seasonal cycle of carbon dioxide concentration at Mauna Loa". Journal of Geophysical Research 92: 5497–5504. doi:10.1029/JD092iD05p05497. edit
41) "Climate and CO2 in the Atmosphere". Retrieved 2007-10-10.
42) Berner, Robert A.; Kothavala, Zavareth (2001). "GEOCARB III: A revised model of atmospheric CO2 over Phanerozoic Time" (PDF). American Journal of Science 301 (2): 182–204. doi:10.2475/ajs.301.2.182. Retrieved 2008-02-15.
43) "After two large annual gains, rate of atmospheric CO2 increase returns to average". NOAA News Online, Story 2412. 2005-03-31.
44) Sigurdsson, Haraldur; Houghton, B. F. (2000). Encyclopedia of volcanoes. San Diego: Academic Press. ISBN 0-12-643140-X.
45) van Gardingen, P.R.; Grace, J.; Jeffree, C.E.; Byari, S.H.; Miglietta, F.; Raschi, A.; Bettarini, I. (1997). "Long-term effects of enhanced CO2 concentrations on leaf gas exchange: research opportunities using CO2 springs". In Raschi, A.; Miglietta, F.; Tognetti, R.; van Gardingen, P.R. (Eds.). Plant responses to elevated CO2: Evidence from natural springs. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 69–86. ISBN 0-521-58203-2.
46) Martini, M. (1997). "CO2 emissions in volcanic areas: case histories and hazards". In Raschi, A.; Miglietta, F.; Tognetti, R.; van Gardingen, P.R. (Eds.). Plant responses to elevated CO2: Evidence from natural springs. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. pp. 69–86. ISBN 0-521-58203-2.
47) "Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview". US Geological Survey. Retrieved 2013-02-26.
48) Navdeep Kaur Dhami; Sudhakara M. Reddy; Abhijit Mukherjee. "Biofilm and Microbial Applications in Biomineralized Concrete". p. 142.

He asked for some actual physical evidence and you provide a wiki article? Are you one of those goofs who believe the output of computer models is physical evidence as well?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why does this simple point have to be so difficult? Unless you wish to reject the greenhouse effect or reject the characterization of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, you have to accept that CO2 causes warming and thus can lead temperature.

There are two different processes taking place. When you increase the temperature of a liquid, you decrease it's ability to hold gases in solution. So when the world gets warmer, from an orbital change for instance, it causes dissolved gases to come out of solution in the oceans and enter the atmosphere. Thus we see CO2 levels increase after Milankovitch orbital changes have raised the Earth's temperature.

CO2 in the atmosphere, like all greenhouse gases, absorb infrared light. Thus, as the level of CO2 and other GHGs in the atmosphere increase, increasing amounts of infrared energy is trapped in the atmosphere and warms the air, the land and the oceans.

In fact, research by a number of scientists have shown that on those occasions we see in the ice cores, where warming causes CO2 levels to increase, the increased CO2 eventually begins to cause its own warming - via the greenhouse effect - and that greenhouse warming becomes the dominant process, causing the planet to warm significantly more than it would have had their been no greenhouse gases present.

But, in any case, the fact that increasing temperatures cause atmospheric CO2 levels to rise, does NOT preclude CO2 from causing increased temperatures.

Oh, so that's why there's not one single lab experiment that shows a temperature increase from an additional 100PPM of CO2!

 

[Crick]

It never stops does it. Uses of words like significant is so outstanding with you all. Prove it. Prove the significant statement you use. The heck with all of the other mumbo jumbo you wrote, it is that word that is just outstanding. You have no evidence to support CO2 causes increases in temperature, yet here you are saying it significantly does. "Significantly" Now that's just funny. One experiment that proves that, pretty please.

The problem isn't my use of the word "significant", it's your use of the word "prove".

Can I ask you how old you are and how much science education you've completed? I'm 60 years old and have a bachelor's degree in ocean engineering. That involved a fair bit of science classes but I'm still no scientist. However, the number of people that think that people studying the natural sciences PROVE things is disconcertingly high.

Can you prove that every atom in the universe is composed of electrons, protons and (aside from hydrogen) neutrons? To PROVE it, you would have to examine every atom in the universe. So, can you do that? No. Could you instead show that the mechanisms that lead to the existence of atoms can only lead to atoms composed of those particles? Well, you could try. You could put it out as a theory and you could test the theory. You could try to think of as many ways as possible to check it - experiments that should fail if our theory about atoms were false. They call that "falsification". That's what scientists do. Read some real science. You'll run into words like significant and likely and probably and majority and a hundred more. You won't run often into "prove".

 

[Crick]

Why does this simple point have to be so difficult? Unless you wish to reject the greenhouse effect or reject the characterization of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, you have to accept that CO2 causes warming and thus can lead temperature.

The greenhouse effect has never been either remeasured or quantified. It is an ad hoc construct based on a flawed mathematical model...never demonstrated to be real.

Of course not. None of it is real. And when it was developed: "The existence of the greenhouse effect was argued for by Joseph Fourier in 1824. The argument and the evidence was further strengthened by Claude Pouillet in 1827 and 1838, and reasoned from experimental observations by John Tyndall in 1859, and more fully quantified by Svante Arrhenius in 1896.[12][13] the computers they ran those "flawed mathematical models" on were really sloppy and inaccurate.

 

[SSDD]

Why does this simple point have to be so difficult? Unless you wish to reject the greenhouse effect or reject the characterization of CO2 as a greenhouse gas, you have to accept that CO2 causes warming and thus can lead temperature.

The greenhouse effect has never been either remeasured or quantified. It is an ad hoc construct based on a flawed mathematical model...never demonstrated to be real.

Of course not. None of it is real. And when it was developed: "The existence of the greenhouse effect was argued for by Joseph Fourier in 1824. The argument and the evidence was further strengthened by Claude Pouillet in 1827 and 1838, and reasoned from experimental observations by John Tyndall in 1859, and more fully quantified by Svante Arrhenius in 1896.[12][13] the computers they ran those "flawed mathematical models" on were really sloppy and inaccurate.

Quaint unproven, unobserved, unmeasured, unquantified 19th century science...that's what you have...nothing more nothing less. Wouldn't you think that before spending billions, perhaps trillions of dollars, someone would have first actually tried to measure and quantify the greenhouse effect? It hasn't been done and it can't be done.