Zone1 Time to accept Jane Fonda's apology? Maybe.......

[gtopa1]

Nope, any sensible person would have read it the way I intended...

But we all know you aren't even in the same zip code as sensible.



But that was kind of the point, isn't it? Our rich and politicians are happy to send the children urban poor into the meat grinders like Vietnam or Afghanistan. It doesn't matter if it's through a draft they exempt themselves from or because the military is often the only option for poor urban youth.

You see, the nice thing about WWII era draft is no one was exempt. If you were rich, you ended up in the same units the poor kids did. (Unless you were black, then you ended up in segregated units, but you get the point.)



Oh, I freely admit, I served 11 years and never got shot at by a testy foreigner who didn't want me in his country. Has nothing to do with my point, though, that if the rich and the powerful had skin in the game, we'd have a lot less wars, and we certainly wouldn't let them drag on for a decade.

How affluent are enlisted recruits?​

Most members of the military come from middle-class neighborhoods. The middle three quintiles for household income were overrepresented among enlisted recruits, and the top and bottom quintiles were underrepresented.

Middle Class Overrepresented Among Recruits
Share of recruits by neighborhood income level

Civilian
Share of recruits
benchmark
|
|
17%
$87,851 and over
21%
$66,598–$87,850
22%
$53,549–$66,597
21%
$41,692–$53,548
19%
Up to $41,691
10%
15%
20%
Notes: Income ranges represent the median household income quintiles for all U.S. census tracts. Each quintile includes 20 percent of the U.S. population. Coast Guard data not available.

Demographics of the U.S. Military

Deployed around the world, the armed forces are a pillar of U.S. power and influence abroad. But many civilians are unfamiliar with their composition. How much does the military resemble U.S. society?

www.cfr.org

You really should stop lying!!!

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

But here's the thing. Why is Ronald Reagan's opinion on something important and Jane Fonda's isn't?



Most of the Vietnamese we murdered weren't "communists", they were regular folks trying to live their lives while we stomped all over their country, forced their women into prostitution, destroyed their agriculture, etc.

Bullshit. They were useful idiots at best and as such fair game. You compare US atrocities with those of Communists??? Garbage!!! Yes; I know that the US were largely poorly prepared for Vietnam but they were there for they right reasons; to STOP COMMUNISM!!! You are indeed a Communist Useful Idiot!!!

Greg

 

[JoeB131]

Bullshit. They were useful idiots at best and as such fair game. You compare US atrocities with those of Communists??? Garbage!!! Yes; I know that the US were largely poorly prepared for Vietnam but they were there for they right reasons; to STOP COMMUNISM!!! You are indeed a Communist Useful Idiot!!!

Except we weren't there for the right reasons.

The Vietnamese would have elected Ho Chi Mihn in a heartbeat if we had allowed free elections. He was seen as a national hero who had fought the French and the Japanese, the people we propped up were seen as collaborators.

There was no strategic value to Vietnam, but neither side of the political aisle wanted to have a replay of "Who lost China?"

And no big surprise, right after we pulled out, the ARVNs dropped their weapons and gave up.

 

[gtopa1]

But here's the thing. Why is Ronald Reagan's opinion on something important and Jane Fonda's isn't?



Most of the Vietnamese we murdered weren't "communists", they were regular folks trying to live their lives while we stomped all over their country, forced their women into prostitution, destroyed their agriculture, etc.

Tell me; do you go to the Viet War Memorial and spit in the names of those killed in 'Nam??? They were in fact Heroes led by donkeys...literally..for much of the war. It took Nixon to sort out the mess only for YOU DEMOKKKRAT IDIOTS to fuck it up again!!! Hence your love of the treasonous Hanoi Jane!!!

Damn her black soul to hell....OK; I'm Catholic so to eternal purgatory!!!!!! I'm not allowed to wish anyone to hell, dammit!!

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Except we weren't there for the right reasons.

The Vietnamese would have elected Ho Chi Mihn in a heartbeat if we had allowed free elections. He was seen as a national hero who had fought the French and the Japanese, the people we propped up were seen as collaborators.

There was no strategic value to Vietnam, but neither side of the political aisle wanted to have a replay of "Who lost China?"

And no big surprise, right after we pulled out, the ARVNs dropped their weapons and gave up.

Ho was a Soviet Useful idiot; damn you're an idiot!!! And no; after the Reds took Saigon the ARVNs fought on only to run out of weapons that the US had PROMISED!!! You liars do NOT get to rewrite history you disgusting buttgrommet!!!

Greg

 

[JoeB131]

Tell me; do you go to the Viet War Memorial and spit in the names of those killed in 'Nam??? They were in fact Heroes led by donkeys...literally..for much of the war. It took Nixon to sort out the mess only for YOU DEMOKKKRAT IDIOTS to fuck it up again!!! Hence your love of the treasonous Hanoi Jane!!!

Are you fucking kidding me? More soldiers died in Vietnam AFTER Nixon took over than before. Nixon "sorted it out" by escalating the violence, only to sign a treaty that threw the Saigon Regime under the bus.

Those soldiers died because Nixon would rather send more poor people into a meat grinder than just admit a defeat. All this "Peace with Honor" bullshit that prolonged the war for years and cost thousands of American and Vietnamese lives.

Damn her black soul to hell....OK; I'm Catholic so to eternal purgatory!!!!!! I'm not allowed to wish anyone to hell, dammit!!

I guess, if you need to believe in an afterlife to assuage your fear of death, you do you, man.

Ho was a Soviet Useful idiot; damn you're an idiot!!! And no; after the Reds took Saigon the ARVNs fought on only to run out of weapons that the US had PROMISED!!! You liars do NOT get to rewrite history you disgusting buttgrommet!!!

Uh, guy, not really. We were funding the Saigon Regime up until the day Saigon fell. The US had committed $700 million in additional weapons to the RVN in FY1975. (In addition to the tens of billions of dollars in weapons we left behind) This is part of the "Stabbed in the Back" myth I was talking about earlier.

Nixon and Kissinger knew the Saigon regime would fall after the US pulled out, because it had no popular support.

Here's where you can educate yourself.

The Myth That Congress Cut Off Funding for South Vietnam

Since partisans have turned the April 30, 1975, Communist takeover of South Vietnam into a political weapon, I’m going to spend the anniversary doing a little myth-busting.

historynewsnetwork.org

Mel Laird, Richard Nixon’s defense secretary, started the modern myth that “Congress snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by cutting off funding for our ally in 1975” in a 2005 article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the prestigious Council on Foreign Relations.

It wasn't true, but that never stopped a meme.

$700 Million

A quick, easy check of an old newspaper database shows Laird's cutoff claim to be false. In the fiscal year running from July 1, 1974, to June 30, 1975, the congressional appropriation for military aid to South Vietnam was $700 million.

Nixon had requested $1.45 billion. Congress cut his aid request, but never cut off aid.

Nixon's successor, President Gerald R. Ford, requested an additional $300 million for Saigon. Democrats saw it as an exercise in political blame-shifting. "The administration knows that the $300 million won't really do anything to prevent ultimate collapse in Vietnam," said Senator and future Vice President Walter F. Mondale, D-Mn., "and it is just trying to shift responsibility of its policy to Congress and the Democrats." Congress didn't approve the supplemental appropriation.

Congressional aid cuts didn't determine the war's final outcome. Saigon's fate was sealed long before, when Nixon forced it accept his settlement terms in January 1973.

Political Spin Nixon crafted this secret strategy to foster the illusion that his public strategy of "Vietnamization and negotiation" worked. Vietnamization was supposed to train the South Vietnamese army to defend itself so the American army could come home; negotiations were supposed to produce a settlement guaranteeing the South's right to choose its own government by election. Nixon privately realized that Vietnamization and negotiation would not work as he said they would.

"South Vietnam probably can never even survive anyway," he said in private, but never in public. To conceal Vietnamization's failure, Nixon timed the withdrawal of U.S. forces to the 1972 election. This way, California Governor Ronald Reagan could welcome delegates to the Republican National Convention in 1972 with the perfect words to launch the President's reelection campaign: "The last American combat team is on its way home from Vietnam."

To get the North Vietnamese to accept a settlement that, on paper, guaranteed the South's right to free elections, Nixon assured them, through the Soviet Union and China, that if they waited a "decent interval" of a year or two before taking over South Vietnam, he would not intervene. The Communists accepted Nixon's settlement terms because they knew that they didn't have to abide by them and the would get a clear shot at overthrowing the South Vietnamese government if they waited approximately 18 months after Nixon withdrew the last U.S. ground forces. Nixon wanted this "decent interval" to make it look like Saigon's fall wasn't his fault.

 

[Blues Man]

Your side made Reagan and Trump president, and you wonder why we give credence to actors?

Not my side.

I don't have a side

You have a need to simplify the world into a series of either or choices because you lack the intellectual capacity for more complex thought.

 

[Mac-7]

Except we weren't there for the right reasons.

The Vietnamese would have elected Ho Chi Mihn in a heartbeat if we had allowed free elections. He was seen as a national hero who had fought the French and the Japanese, the people we propped up were seen as collaborators.

There was no strategic value to Vietnam, but neither side of the political aisle wanted to have a replay of "Who lost China?"

And no big surprise, right after we pulled out, the ARVNs dropped their weapons and gave up.

In fact it took several years for the combined weight of communist china, the soviet union snd north vietnam to crush timy doutj vietnam

The democrats handed a victory to world communism

 

[JoeB131]

Not my side.

I don't have a side

You have a need to simplify the world into a series of either or choices because you lack the intellectual capacity for more complex thought.

Hey, I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to own the mess your side makes of things, either.

In fact it took several years for the combined weight of communist china, the soviet union snd north vietnam to crush timy doutj vietnam

The democrats handed a victory to world communism

You are confused. The only thing that kept the Quislings in Saigon in power was the money we kept pumping into it.
Once the money stopped, they fell.

 

[Mac-7]

Hey, I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to own the mess your side makes of things, either.



You are confused. The only thing that kept the Quislings in Saigon in power was the money we kept pumping into it.
Once the money stopped, they fell.

Ditto for the north

Without russian and red china Ho would have been unable to invade the south

 

[JoeB131]

Ditto for the north

Without russian and red china Ho would have been unable to invade the south

Except the people supported the North. China and Russia didn't have to send millions of troops to the North to keep it in power.

 

[Blues Man]

Hey, I don't blame you, I wouldn't want to own the mess your side makes of things, either.



You are confused. The only thing that kept the Quislings in Saigon in power was the money we kept pumping into it.
Once the money stopped, they fell.

You do like to trumpet your lack of intellectual depth don't you?

I have not voted for any candidate the corrupt duopoly has put forth in almost 30 years

 

[JoeB131]

You do like to trumpet your lack of intellectual depth don't you?

I have not voted for any candidate the corrupt duopoly has put forth in almost 30 years

Hey, I wouldn't take credit for what your side has done to this country, either.

 

[Mac-7]

Except the people supported the North. China and Russia didn't have to send millions of troops to the North to keep it in power.

Bullshit

You have been duped by communist and democrat party propaganda

 

[Blues Man]

Hey, I wouldn't take credit for what your side has done to this country, either.

Maybe your tiny mind will understand this

 

[Care4all]

If you are a Christian, and follow Christ, it is your duty, to forgive her.....

The Lord's Prayer, given to us in the Holy Bible, says in it, as we pray to God:

"Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who have sinned against us."

or the Catholic version:

"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us."

Forgiveness is one of the hardest things to give, especially towards someone who has been absolutely horrific towards you...

But if you don't, you'll only rot, from within.....

 

[Catman51]

Nope, any sensible person would have read it the way I intended...

But we all know you aren't even in the same zip code as sensible.

If this were true, are you claiming to have been in the room, in spite of all evidence to the contrary?

But that was kind of the point, isn't it? Our rich and politicians are happy to send the children urban poor into the meat grinders like Vietnam or Afghanistan. It doesn't matter if it's through a draft they exempt themselves from or because the military is often the only option for poor urban youth.

Are you aware that in Vietnam over half who participated were volunteers and all who did so in Afghanistan were all volunteers? And that they came from all social strata? You proclaim yourself to be a elitist pig by your comments with no desire to learn the actual truth. Just repeating the lies that you have been brainwashed with.

You see, the nice thing about WWII era draft is no one was exempt. If you were rich, you ended up in the same units the poor kids did. (Unless you were black, then you ended up in segregated units, but you get the point.)

Once again repeating lies does not make you look good. Examples: The Kennedy's in WWII. Ever hear of PT109?

Certainly not a poor family and there are many more just like them.

Oh, I freely admit, I served 11 years and never got shot at by a testy foreigner who didn't want me in his country. Has nothing to do with my point, though, that if the rich and the powerful had skin in the game, we'd have a lot less wars, and we certainly wouldn't let them drag on for a decade.

 

[Catman51]

Oh, I freely admit, I served 11 years and never got shot at by a testy foreigner who didn't want me in his country. Has nothing to do with my point, though, that if the rich and the powerful had skin in the game, we'd have a lot less wars, and we certainly wouldn't let them drag on for a decade.

Being a rear echelon weeny tends to not get you fired at, as does joining up when there is not a war on. True bravery seems to have eluded you so you resort to trying to be a keyboard warrior and fail at even that.

 

[Blues Man]

If you are a Christian, and follow Christ, it is your duty, to forgive her.....

The Lord's Prayer, given to us in the Holy Bible, says in it, as we pray to God:

"Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who have sinned against us."

or the Catholic version:

"Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who have trespassed against us."

Forgiveness is one of the hardest things to give, especially towards someone who has been absolutely horrific towards you...

But if you don't, you'll only rot, from within.....

That's bullshit.

It assumes a person will ruminate for the rest of their lives over a transgression and that assumption is as flawed as any.

 

[Catman51]

Who really gives a flying fuck what Jane thinks?

Why do you people lend so much credence to actors anyway?

No credence to actors, they are elitist idiots and in her case, a traitor.