Zone1 Time to accept Jane Fonda's apology? Maybe.......

[Meister]

Yes you do know.
You know what the situation on the ground was

What serving doesn’t tell you is the history of the conflict, the geopolitical aspects, what happened after we left

You act like these soldiers could just walk away from their duty.
Many were drafted into serving, like they had a choice.
They served our country honorably......unlike Hanoi Jane.


What was your lottery number from back in the day, RW?

 

[Flash]

Yeah....again.....she went to Vietnam in 1972..........

Sell that to joe biden voters........

Her career was like any other big star...she had 4 massive hits on top of all the other movies she made, she had a massive exercise video series that was a defining aspect of the 80s, so you don't know what you are talking about.....

She had her time, and now she is still acting...in old people movies...

On top of all that she married a billionaire.

The traitorous bitch lived well.

 

[rightwinger]

You act like these soldiers could just walk away from their duty.
Many were drafted into serving, like they had a choice.
They served our country honorably......unlike Hanoi Jane.


What was your lottery number from back in the day, RW?

No question they served their country honorably

Those who did not serve their country honorably are those politicians and Generals who misled the country.
Jane Fonda called them on it

 

[rightwinger]

What was your lottery number from back in the day, RW?

21

 

[JoeB131]

She still does not deserve to be 'forgiven', IMO.
I know several Vietnam vets who are as unforgiving as I am.
I would rather walk with them than her.

Hanoi Jane will die with that stigma

Your Vietnam Vet friends should save their ire for the government that sent them into war on a lie. Not the lady who pointed out the lie.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah....again.....she went to Vietnam in 1972..........

Sell that to joe biden voters........

Her career was like any other big star...she had 4 massive hits on top of all the other movies she made, she had a massive exercise video series that was a defining aspect of the 80s, so you don't know what you are talking about.....

She had her time, and now she is still acting...in old people movies...

Are you dense? Does your brain not work right? I've explained this to you several times.

In 1972, 60% of the country was against the war, and the only way Nixon could get re-elected was by selling out Saigon. Which is totally what he did. The Joke was that Nixon had a plan to end Vietnam that was so secret, he didn't know what it was. It turned out to be bombing civilians to the point you would force Hanoi to accept an agreement. So, no, no one was all that upset about what Fonda did outside the right.

By 1981, the "Stabbed in the Back" myth had fully taken effect, when Ronald Reagan got up and called Vietnam a "Noble Cause", movies like Rambo and Missing in Action were produced repeating the lie that veterans were spit upon and we had left POW's behind.

So, yes, by the 1980's, Cancel Culture had caught up with Ms. Fonda, still one of the best actresses that Hollywood has ever produced. No, she couldn't play the "sexpot" anymore, but the rolls for serious career professionals that went to other actresses of that period didn't go to her.

 

[2aguy]

Are you dense? Does your brain not work right? I've explained this to you several times.

In 1972, 60% of the country was against the war, and the only way Nixon could get re-elected was by selling out Saigon. Which is totally what he did. The Joke was that Nixon had a plan to end Vietnam that was so secret, he didn't know what it was. It turned out to be bombing civilians to the point you would force Hanoi to accept an agreement. So, no, no one was all that upset about what Fonda did outside the right.

By 1981, the "Stabbed in the Back" myth had fully taken effect, when Ronald Reagan got up and called Vietnam a "Noble Cause", movies like Rambo and Missing in Action were produced repeating the lie that veterans were spit upon and we had left POW's behind.

So, yes, by the 1980's, Cancel Culture had caught up with Ms. Fonda, still one of the best actresses that Hollywood has ever produced. No, she couldn't play the "sexpot" anymore, but the rolls for serious career professionals that went to other actresses of that period didn't go to her.

And again........her trajectory as a movie star had reached the high point and then went down....also she was in the China Syndrome...another hit...well after 1972....and her first workout video tape didn't come out until 1982....so again, you don't know what you are talking about......

If she was "canceled," her video sales didn't reflect it............since she started an entire exercise movement across the country...

In 1982, Fonda released her first exercise video, titled Jane Fonda's Workout, inspired by her best-selling book, Jane Fonda's Workout Book. Jane Fonda's Workout became the highest selling home video of the next few years, selling over a million copies. The video's release led many people to buy the then-new VCR in order to watch and perform the workout at home.[50] The exercise videos were directed by Sidney Galanty, who produced the first video and 11 more after that. She would subsequently release 23 workout videos with the series selling a total of 17 million copies combined, more than any other exercise series.[37]

She released five workout books and thirteen audio programs, through 1995. After a fifteen-year hiatus, she released two new fitness videos on DVD in 2010, aiming at an older audience.[51]

Jane Fonda - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

You don't talk or express yourself like a vet. attempt at stolen valor?

Actually, anyone who has talked to me at length knows otherwise. It's actually kind of a defining thing. I was in from 1981 to 1985 as a Reservist (it's how I paid for college) and was active duty from 1986 to 1992. MOS 76Y, achieved the rank of Staff Sergeant. If I were going to make something up, I'd come up with something more impressive than "Supply NCO".

Second question for you, have you talked to all Vietnam vets to arrive at you false conclusions. You make what you wish to be true and claim it is. Go to visit Vietnam Veterans of America and you will get a lesson.

I knew a lot of Vietnam vets when I was in, and frankly, their opinions were diverse. Some thought they were fighting for a noble cause, some realized that the government abused them. This isn't about the vets, it's about the policies that our government followed.

The reason I got out in 1992 (or one of them) was because after the Gulf War, (which my unit wasn't deployed to) I really had to reconsider what I was doing there. I signed up in 1981 because I felt as a younger man, that the USSR was a threat. By 1992, were were out being the enforcers for Exxon. They were all kind of surprised when I didn't re-enlist.

She raised moral and gave aid and comfort to the enemy. She continues to be responsible for the deaths of our service people and you cheer her on.

Uh, the only thing she did was expose what Nixon was lying about. Nixon straight up lied about bombing the dikes in NV, which was causing a humanitarian disaster by destroying rice production. Because Fonda was famous, film crews followed her, and yup, there were those bombed out rice paddies!

It should be pointed out that by 1972, everyone had agreed Vietnam was a bad idea and we had to get the fuck out. Nixon babbled about "Peace with Honor".

Now you are trying to conflate two separate things. They are not the same or ever will be.

Actually, the major difference between the two was that because the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were fought by volunteers, there was less objection. As opposed to Vietnam, where they sent conscripts (who were the guys who didn't have the connections to avoid service.)

Side note. Every President who was old enough to serve in that conflict found a way to avoid going. Clinton lied to an ROTC officer until his draft number was passed over. Bush Jr. got a bullshit posting to a guard unit, and didn't show up for UTA's his last year. (You see, I know what a UTA is.). Trump got a bullshit medical exemption. So maybe before we all go whining about how they didn't respect Vietnam Vets, maybe we should have elected one.

Doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. It was purely political.

Or she felt very strongly about it. Again- 1972, there was no, "Let's go out and win this thing." Everyone by 1972 realized that we had been lied into the war by LBJ, that the Vietnamese had no interest in having the kind of government we wanted them to have, and both sides were looking for a way out. Again, think Afghanistan, were we blundered into the thing, everyone knew it was kind of pointless, but no one wanted to be the guy who had to preside over the half-ass evacuation.

 

[JoeB131]

And again........her trajectory as a movie star had reached the high point and then went down....also she was in the China Syndrome...another hit...well after 1972....and her first workout video tape didn't come out until 1982....so again, you don't know what you are talking about......

Does anyone even remember "The China Syndrome"? Come on, many you are stretching. The only reason why the China Syndrome did well at the box office at all was that the 12 days after it came out, Three Mile Island happened. (The first case of viral marketing?)

Point remains. 1981, we went through this self-flagellation about how we did the Vietnam Vet dirty, and Ms. Fonda was a prime target.

 

[JoeB131]

You act like these soldiers could just walk away from their duty.
Many were drafted into serving, like they had a choice.
They served our country honorably......unlike Hanoi Jane.

What was your lottery number from back in the day, RW?

Yes, the Vietnam Vets were done dirty by the GOVERNMENT, not Ms. Fonda.
I'll be the first one to admit that. We had a selective service system that exempted the privileged and penalized the working class.

 

[2aguy]

Does anyone even remember "The China Syndrome"? Come on, many you are stretching. The only reason why the China Syndrome did well at the box office at all was that the 12 days after it came out, Three Mile Island happened. (The first case of viral marketing?)

Point remains. 1981, we went through this self-flagellation about how we did the Vietnam Vet dirty, and Ms. Fonda was a prime target.

Remember? It is only the reason we can't have nuclear energy today....

Does anyone it.....?

It doesn't matter....at the time....after 1972 when she had committed treason.......it was a major hit....

The China Syndrome premiered at the 1979 Cannes Film Festival, where it competed for the Palme d'Orwhile Lemmon received the Best Actor Prize.[3] It was theatrically released on March 16, 1979, twelve days before the Three Mile Island nuclear accident in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania, which gave the film's subject matter an unexpected prescience. It became a critical and commercial success. Reviewers praised the film's screenplay, direction, and performances (most notably of Fonda and Lemmon), while it grossed $51.7 million on a production budget of $5.9 million. The film received four nominations at the 52nd Academy Awards; Best Actor (for Lemmon), Best Actress (for Fonda), Best Original Screenplay, and Best Production Design.[4]
The_China_Syndrome

 

[JoeB131]

You are confused about this when it comes to the Fonda bitch so I will take the time to educate you.

First of all I don't think you know anything about Vietnam. Only what you have seen from Hollywood movies.

By that logic, no one can have an opinion on any war they didn't personally serve in. SO I guess I can't claim the Crimean War was kind of stupid, too.

I arrived in Vietnam in Nov of 67 and left in Mar 70. During the time over there I met many of the guys that served. Some of them were pro war. They wanted to kick some Commie ass. Some didn't really care one way or another but were doing their duty. Some were anti war but as Americans were doing their duty as required by the government.

The thing is that none of them ever gave any aid or comfort to the enemy. None of them went to North Vietnam and got their pictures taken by the International Press pretending to shoot down Americans with glee.

Um, yeah. So what's your point? That if you are part of a regimented organization, you do what you are told? I would hope so.

Do you really think the Vietnamese would have given up if Jane Fonda hadn't visited.

This is the problem with how we tend to think. People don't like it when you occupy their country. We didn't learn that lesson 70 years earlier in the Philippines, we didn't learn that lesson 50 years later in Afghanistan and Iraq.

It was up to us Americans to decide if the war was worth fighting or not. It was not up to the goddamn North Vietnamese or their Russian or Chinese buddies.

So as an American, Ms. Fonda had a voice.

The way to protest the war was in the US, not giving aid and comfort to the shitheads that were killing our troops.

You don't have a clue what was wrong with Fonda going to North Vietnam, do you? Typical.

That she actually showed us what our war was doing? The horror of it all.

Now, unlike WWII, where the images were strictly controlled by a compliant press, today we get to see the war from their side. We send in camera crews. Maybe if the American Public saw the bombings of Hiroshima or Dresden, they wouldn't have supported the war. (Actually, support for WWII was declining when the first images were coming back from places like Okinawa, and people wondered if "Unconditional Surrender" was worth the cost.

 

[JoeB131]

Remember? It is only the reason we can't have nuclear energy today....

No, the reason we don't have more nuclear energy is because of Three Mile Island. And Chernobyl. And Fukushima. That's why we don't have nuclear energy.

None of which has anything to do with how historical revisionism in the 1980's wrecked her career when the people who got us into Vietnam lied about why they lost the war.

 

[2aguy]

No, the reason we don't have more nuclear energy is because of Three Mile Island. And Chernobyl. And Fukushima. That's why we don't have nuclear energy.

None of which has anything to do with how historical revisionism in the 1980's wrecked her career when the people who got us into Vietnam lied about why they lost the war.

Yeah....and I guess the Vietnam war wrecked Bruce Willis' career too...since his started to fizzle in 2010 and before......

 

[Flash]

By that logic, no one can have an opinion on any war they didn't personally serve in. SO I guess I can't claim the Crimean War was kind of stupid, too.



Um, yeah. So what's your point? That if you are part of a regimented organization, you do what you are told? I would hope so.

Do you really think the Vietnamese would have given up if Jane Fonda hadn't visited.

This is the problem with how we tend to think. People don't like it when you occupy their country. We didn't learn that lesson 70 years earlier in the Philippines, we didn't learn that lesson 50 years later in Afghanistan and Iraq.



So as an American, Ms. Fonda had a voice.


That she actually showed us what our war was doing? The horror of it all.

Now, unlike WWII, where the images were strictly controlled by a compliant press, today we get to see the war from their side. We send in camera crews. Maybe if the American Public saw the bombings of Hiroshima or Dresden, they wouldn't have supported the war. (Actually, support for WWII was declining when the first images were coming back from places like Okinawa, and people wondered if "Unconditional Surrender" was worth the cost.

You don't understand the difference between legitimate protest and giving aid and comfort to the enemy, do you?

Typical Moon Bat confusion.

Vietnam was a shitshow from the time that idiot JFK first sent troops to the time that other idiot LBJ came up with the brilliant idea of fighting the war on land on the terms of the Communists.

A lot of people had problems with the war because of all the mismanagement that resulted in unneeded American deaths. However, it was this Jane Fonda piece of shit that went to North Vietnam and had her picture taken pretending to kill Americans.

You not understanding what was wrong with that just shows how confused you are.

Pathetic!

 

[Catman51]

Yes you do know.
You know what the situation on the ground was

What serving doesn’t tell you is the history of the conflict, the geopolitical aspects, what happened after we left

No, you don't "know" the situation on the ground. You only pretend that you do.

As for the history, most of us do not care. We were there and try9ing our best to survive, many failing that.

Telling yourself otherwise is just lying to yourself and making up a fantasy.

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah....and I guess the Vietnam war wrecked Bruce Willis' career too...since his started to fizzle in 2010 and before......

Bruce Willis has released several movies every year, until he succumbed to dementia.
Fonda's career largely ended in 1981, and she didn't work again on major releases until 2005, and even then, only sporadically.

 

[JoeB131]

You don't understand the difference between legitimate protest and giving aid and comfort to the enemy, do you?

Typical Moon Bat confusion.

Vietnam was a shitshow from the time that idiot JFK first sent troops to the time that other idiot LBJ came up with the brilliant idea of fighting the war on land on the terms of the Communists.

So I am not seeing your point. Heck, if you want to go back that far, let's blame
Ike for sending the first advisors and recognizing the regime in Saigon.
Truman for not bailing out the French when they asked to be bailed out.
FDR for sending OSS agents into Vietnam and worked with Ho Chi Mihn to fight the Japanese.

Our policy there was stupid, because the Vietnamese didn't support the people we tried to put in charge. The minute we left, they put down their guns and gave up.

And judging by Afghanistan, we didn't learn a fucking thing.

A lot of people had problems with the war because of all the mismanagement that resulted in unneeded American deaths. However, it was this Jane Fonda piece of shit that went to North Vietnam and had her picture taken pretending to kill Americans.

You not understanding what was wrong with that just shows how confused you are.

She didn't "pretend to kill Americans". She sat on an AA gun, and then immediately hopped out of it the second she realized what it was.

 

[2aguy]

Bruce Willis has released several movies every year, until he succumbed to dementia.
Fonda's career largely ended in 1981, and she didn't work again on major releases until 2005, and even then, only sporadically.

As has Jane Fonda........she has several shows on Netflix right now....and has appeared in movie after movie...including the brand new movie, 80 for Brady......

 

[Catman51]

Actually, anyone who has talked to me at length knows otherwise. It's actually kind of a defining thing. I was in from 1981 to 1985 as a Reservist (it's how I paid for college) and was active duty from 1986 to 1992. MOS 76Y, achieved the rank of Staff Sergeant. If I were going to make something up, I'd come up with something more impressive than "Supply NCO".



I knew a lot of Vietnam vets when I was in, and frankly, their opinions were diverse. Some thought they were fighting for a noble cause, some realized that the government abused them. This isn't about the vets, it's about the policies that our government followed.

The reason I got out in 1992 (or one of them) was because after the Gulf War, (which my unit wasn't deployed to) I really had to reconsider what I was doing there. I signed up in 1981 because I felt as a younger man, that the USSR was a threat. By 1992, were were out being the enforcers for Exxon. They were all kind of surprised when I didn't re-enlist.



Uh, the only thing she did was expose what Nixon was lying about. Nixon straight up lied about bombing the dikes in NV, which was causing a humanitarian disaster by destroying rice production. Because Fonda was famous, film crews followed her, and yup, there were those bombed out rice paddies!

It should be pointed out that by 1972, everyone had agreed Vietnam was a bad idea and we had to get the fuck out. Nixon babbled about "Peace with Honor".



Actually, the major difference between the two was that because the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were fought by volunteers, there was less objection. As opposed to Vietnam, where they sent conscripts (who were the guys who didn't have the connections to avoid service.)

Side note. Every President who was old enough to serve in that conflict found a way to avoid going. Clinton lied to an ROTC officer until his draft number was passed over. Bush Jr. got a bullshit posting to a guard unit, and didn't show up for UTA's his last year. (You see, I know what a UTA is.). Trump got a bullshit medical exemption. So maybe before we all go whining about how they didn't respect Vietnam Vets, maybe we should have elected one.



Or she felt very strongly about it. Again- 1972, there was no, "Let's go out and win this thing." Everyone by 1972 realized that we had been lied into the war by LBJ, that the Vietnamese had no interest in having the kind of government we wanted them to have, and both sides were looking for a way out. Again, think Afghanistan, were we blundered into the thing, everyone knew it was kind of pointless, but no one wanted to be the guy who had to preside over the half-ass evacuation.

You seem to present yourself as firm in your OPINION of this traitor. If you have been deluded into thinking this fine, do so. As for me, I witnessed her treachery and my opinion of her will never change. She should have been locked up for her actions. She disgraced the nation and her family.