Tropospheric Hot Spot- Why it does not exist...

[Wuwei]

that's pretty low for an "upper" tropospheric hot spot isn't it?

Yeah, billy had a screwy idea didn't he.

 

[Wuwei]

You guys don't know what work is in mechanics or thermodynamics.

Work, Energy and Power
Work
refers to an activity involving a force and movement in the direction of the force. A force of 20 newtons pushing an object 5 meters in the direction of the force does 100 joules of work.

A photon hitting an atom puts it into a excited state. That is internal energy. A physicist would not call that work. Work is a macroscopic concept in mechanics.

 

[Manonthestreet]

 

[Wuwei]

Are you implying that the atmospheric hot spot should be 1 meter off the ground then?

Of course not.

If your premise were true than this is precisely where it would reside.

For god's sake billy this was my post #454

The CO2 (and other GHG's including H2O) very close to the surface of earth radiate exactly half their energy downward to land.​

By very close, I told you I meant a fraction of an inch. Half the radiation goes up and the other half goes down. The distance is to short for atmospheric absorption, so all the downward half hits the earth. And you try to turn it into a discussion on the hot spot. I have no idea how your mind got to that.

 

[Wuwei]

LWIR has to do one of two things.. Be absorbed and excite or be absorbed and re-emitted. If it is exciting a mass then work is being performed and heat is the result. If it is being passed from one molecule to the next, with little work and no heat being created, it is free floating in our atmosphere. There is little to no free floating energy.

Now explain what portions of LWIR are doing what and how did you define it ?

You got it all wrong. LWIR can only excite or through stimulated emission force an excited GHG to a lower energy state. If it is excited it can re-emit which is very rare. The most probably event (99% of the time) is to crash into N2 or O2 and exchange energy. No work is being done. You are misusing the term. If energy is being passed from one molecule to the next, that is a microscopic nature of heat and the word "free floating" still has no meaning in this context.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Fooling yourself with electronics hardly amounts to direct measurement of non existent back radiation...it does, however, identify you as an idiot who probably shouldn't be allowed to touch anything more technical than a popsicle stick.

Hey pisschugger, are you still sticking with your hilariously stupid theory that detailed IR cameras work entirely by thermocouples heating up? At pixel level?

I think that had everyone busting a gut. You're just a profoundly stupid human being.

All you have to do is go out and look at the specs hairball...what people are laughing at is you for not being bright enough to do so before you make claims.....but then you are in good company...Dr Spencer...Ian...and all the other people who told you that IR moves spontaneously from cool to warm...

and all the other people who told you that IR moves spontaneously from cool to warm...

This is why we can't see the surface of the Sun, the photons can't travel toward the hotter corona. DERP!

 

[Wuwei]

.but then you are in good company...Dr Spencer...Ian...and all the other people who told you that IR moves spontaneously from cool to warm...

"All the other people" also includes all scientists over the past 100 years.

 

[SSDD]

He never showed me a measurement of back radiation taken with an instrument at ambient temperature...every measurement he has shown was made with an instrument cooled to at least -80F and in that case it isn't energy moving from the cooler atmosphere to the warmer earth...it is energy moving from the warmer atmosphere to the cooler instrument...hardly back radiation..simply energy moving from warm to cool as predicted by the 2nd law.

Crick showed you the measurements dozens of times. Doesn't matter what the temperature is. It's back radiation.

It isn't back radiation if energy is moving from the warmer instrument...that is simply energy moving from warm to cool...it would be back radiation if the energy were moving from the cooler atmosphere to a warmer instrument....Again, you display how you have come to be duped to the extent you are.

 

[SSDD]

Constant pressure isn't work? Do you mean that those heavy weights hanging on chains in my grandfather clock aren't providing work?

The weight is moving downward. When it gets to bottom you have to do work to reset it.

And gravity doesn't amount to weight moving downward?....is there no pressure difference between the top of the atmosphere, the middle of the atmosphere, and the bottom.

All you need do is look at some of the outer planets to see that what I claim is actually happening...Uranus...arguably one of the coldest places in the solar system has a temperature almost equal to the temperatures found in our troposphere with virtually no greenhouse gasses and not nearly enough incoming solar energy to power a greenhouse effect as described by climate science...how do those temperatures get that high if it isn't due to pressure?

Continual work was not being applied.

When does gravity stop pressing down on the atmosphere?

 

[SSDD]

You guys don't know what work is in mechanics or thermodynamics.

Work, Energy and Power
Work
refers to an activity involving a force and movement in the direction of the force. A force of 20 newtons pushing an object 5 meters in the direction of the force does 100 joules of work.

That pretty much describes gravity and its effect on the atmosphere. The direction and strength of gravity can certainly be measured.

 

[SSDD]

.but then you are in good company...Dr Spencer...Ian...and all the other people who told you that IR moves spontaneously from cool to warm...

"All the other people" also includes all scientists over the past 100 years.

And still not a single observation of it happening spontaneously....

 

[Crick]

Your fixation on this bizarre interpretation really seems like an illness. Given two explanation for the same behavior, why stick with the one that calls for intelligent matter able to sense its surrounding and throttle and aim its own emissions as well as violate relativity, when the alternative is simpler, is the understanding of everyone else on the fucking planet and doesn't violate anything? Answer? You're insane or stupid beyond belief or both.

 

[Wuwei]

It isn't back radiation if energy is moving from the warmer instrument...that is simply energy moving from warm to cool...it would be back radiation if the energy were moving from the cooler atmosphere to a warmer instrument....Again, you display how you have come to be duped to the extent you are.

Crick showed you the measurements dozens of times. It doesn't matter what the temperature is. It's back radiation. Radiation can go any direction.

 

[Wuwei]

And gravity doesn't amount to weight moving downward?....is there no pressure difference between the top of the atmosphere, the middle of the atmosphere, and the bottom.

Gravity is a downward force. Atmosphere molecules move randomly all directions.

When does gravity stop pressing down on the atmosphere?

It doesn't. It's not doing work.
Work
refers to an activity involving a force and movement in the direction of the force.

 

[Wuwei]

Work
refers to an activity involving a force and movement in the direction of the force. A force of 20 newtons pushing an object 5 meters in the direction of the force does 100 joules of work.

That pretty much describes gravity and its effect on the atmosphere. The direction and strength of gravity can certainly be measured.

Gravity is a continual downward force. The atmosphere is not continually moving downward. Therefore no work is being done by gravity.

 

[Wuwei]

And still not a single observation of it happening spontaneously...

So you disagree with all scientists over the last 100 years yet have no explanation why you think they are wrong.

 

[Wuwei]

Your fixation on this bizarre interpretation really seems like an illness. Given two explanation for the same behavior, why stick with the one that calls for intelligent matter able to sense its surrounding and throttle and aim its own emissions as well as violate relativity, when the alternative is simpler, is the understanding of everyone else on the fucking planet and doesn't violate anything? Answer? You're insane or stupid beyond belief or both.

I don't think he's stupid. He's either insane or just a troll, or both.

 

[Billy_Bob]

that's pretty low for an "upper" tropospheric hot spot isn't it?

Yeah, billy had a screwy idea didn't he.

It was your implication... LOL what an ass..

 

[Wuwei]

that's pretty low for an "upper" tropospheric hot spot isn't it?

Yeah, billy had a screwy idea didn't he.

It was your implication... LOL what an ass..

Nope, that was your inference.

 

[IanC]

And gravity doesn't amount to weight moving downward?....is there no pressure difference between the top of the atmosphere, the middle of the atmosphere, and the bottom.

Gravity is a downward force. Atmosphere molecules move randomly all directions.

When does gravity stop pressing down on the atmosphere?

It doesn't. It's not doing work.
Work
refers to an activity involving a force and movement in the direction of the force.

You are falling into the same trap SSDD is mired in.

Radiation is created in all directions and remains unchanged until it interacts with a particle of matter. Air molecules are constantly being accelerated by gravity. Without a constant source of new energy to replace the energy radiated away by temperature dependant Blackbody Radiation, the atmosphere would collapse to the surface. As it is, the atmosphere swells and shrinks daily depending on whether it is in sunlight or not.

The total energy of the atmosphere is the framework that defines the range of surface temps. GHGs simply change the amount of energy sequestered in the atmosphere.

SSDD seemingly does not understand that it is the movement of the weights in his Grandfather Clock that run the mechanism. You have to store potential energy weekly for it to continue to operate.