Trump: 14th Amendment is Unconstitutional

A recognized Constitutional expert has finally come forward and given a scholarly examination of the current 14th Amendment controversy and debate. He goes into great detail about all the issues addressed in this thread. Unfortunately, he does not support the Trump contentions and those of the Trump supporters on this thread. Rather he confirms what the Trump critics have contended over these many pages. Trump and his ideas don't have a leg to stand on according to this guy.
Of course the claim will be made immediately that the source is not reliable and biased toward a liberal or Democrat spin. The messenger will be attacked. One problem, and it is a kind of a big one for anyone that tries to go that "attack the messenger route".
James Ho writes for the Federalist and was an attorney in the G.W. Bush administration. He was one of the authors of the famous memos that changed the way prisoners where treated. His contribution was the memo that determined that terrorist prisoners did not have to be treated in accordance with international treaties.
Hard core Republican conservative says this:

thefederalist.com/2015/08/25/defining-american-birthright-citizenship-and-the-original-understanding-of-the-14th-amendment/

Let the attacks on Ho begin. :ack-1:

Great article- I particularly like this quote:

[speaking of Wong Kim decision]
By a 6–2 vote, the Court rejected the government’s argument:

“The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. … To hold that the fourteenth amendment of the constitution excludes from citizenship the children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of other countries, would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage, who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States.”[37]

This sweeping language reaches all aliens regardless of immigration status.[38] To be sure, the question of illegal aliens was not explicitly presented in Wong Kim Ark. But any doubt was put to rest in Plyler v. Doe (1982).
 
The SCOTUS rules on the basis of the Constitution. They have ruled that the 14th Amendment did nothing more than continue the common law tradition that defined a citizen by where they were born. Since our founding, citizenship was conferred on anyone born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction. The 14th gave that principal the force of Constitutional law; meaning it cannot be disturbed by Congress or any other legislative body. Much like Dred Scott has to be overturned by Constitutional Amendment, the holding in Wong Kim also requires a constitutional amendment to change it.

Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one and give us a link.
 
The SCOTUS rules on the basis of the Constitution. They have ruled that the 14th Amendment did nothing more than continue the common law tradition that defined a citizen by where they were born. Since our founding, citizenship was conferred on anyone born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction. The 14th gave that principal the force of Constitutional law; meaning it cannot be disturbed by Congress or any other legislative body. Much like Dred Scott has to be overturned by Constitutional Amendment, the holding in Wong Kim also requires a constitutional amendment to change it.

Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept..

Please explain the difference. I am really curious how about what kind of rationalizations make these two statements 'different'

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.


Tell me how the 14th Amendment uses the same word- to mean two different things- in the same paragraph.

Because, moron... "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is not the same thing as "within its jurisdiction." It's speaking of two totally different things.

I've already pointed out to you... if the 14th means what you claim, the "subject to jurisdiction" part is totally pointless and unnecessary. It makes no sense to be in there, stuck in the middle of the sentence. Why not just say "all persons born or naturalized in the US are citizens?"

Because not all persons born in the United States are citizens.

Children born to diplomats are not citizens- because they are not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

At the time, Native Americans weren't for the same reason

Still waiting for you to show me the difference between
. "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is not the same thing as "within its jurisdiction." It's speaking of two totally different things.

What are the two different things? Why would the 14th Amendment use the same word- meaning two different things- in the same paragraph?
 
The same reason SCOTUS maintained slaves were property... they are wrong. The case was 5-4 and was largely upheld on the basis of established policy. The AG didn't want to prosecute, the Executive Branch didn't want to prosecute, Congress didn't care to intervene.

Again, the SCOTUS can't determine who gets to be a citizen. All they can do is rule on the basis of statutory policy. And Trump has said, he hopes that the issue of who is a citizen will be resolved.... it needs to be. But this isn't Gay Marriage and it's not up to SCOTUS... it one of the enumerated and plenary powers of Congress.

The SCOTUS rules on the basis of the Constitution. They have ruled that the 14th Amendment did nothing more than continue the common law tradition that defined a citizen by where they were born. Since our founding, citizenship was conferred on anyone born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction. The 14th gave that principal the force of Constitutional law; meaning it cannot be disturbed by Congress or any other legislative body. Much like Dred Scott has to be overturned by Constitutional Amendment, the holding in Wong Kim also requires a constitutional amendment to change it.

Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.


Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.

The 14th Amendment has only two requirements for citizenship by birth:
  • Born in the United States and
  • Subject to the jurisdiction of the United States
Wong Kim Ark never once says that an illegal alien is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

But Plyler v. Doe certainly says that an illegal alien is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.


Wong Kim doesn't mention a LOT of things it WASN'T about!
Doesn't say illegals ARE or ARE NOT citizens because it wasn't about ILLEGAL aliens.

Plyler v Doe also was about due process rights. If ANYTHING, these cases only prove that there is at least some question on this issue YOU claim is clearly defined in the 14th. And you've still not explained how Native Americans who were born on US soil and under US law and under geographical jurisdiction of the US government... were NOT legal citizens according to the 14th?

You can rationalize all you like, the facts are the facts. For 33 years AFTER the Wong decision, Native Americans were born on US soil, under US law, under geographical jurisdiction of US government... but were NOT automatic citizens by birth. It took passage of an act by Congress to make them citizens... this is a STATUTORY issue and Congress has plenary power.
 
Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one and give us a link.
 
Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one and give us a link.

Mark Levin is not a recognized constitutional expert. He is a talk show commentator. He has never litigated a case in the Federal Courts. He has no credentials as a constitutional lawyer, let alone expert. His contentions in that video are answered by the experts, specifically the one you were given a link for to examine. It shreds the radio talk show guys nonsense.
 
The SCOTUS rules on the basis of the Constitution. They have ruled that the 14th Amendment did nothing more than continue the common law tradition that defined a citizen by where they were born. Since our founding, citizenship was conferred on anyone born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction. The 14th gave that principal the force of Constitutional law; meaning it cannot be disturbed by Congress or any other legislative body. Much like Dred Scott has to be overturned by Constitutional Amendment, the holding in Wong Kim also requires a constitutional amendment to change it.

Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.


Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.

The 14th Amendment has only two requirements for citizenship by birth:
  • Born in the United States and
  • Subject to the jurisdiction of the United States
Wong Kim Ark never once says that an illegal alien is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

But Plyler v. Doe certainly says that an illegal alien is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Wong Kim doesn't mention a LOT of things it WASN'T about!
Doesn't say illegals ARE or ARE NOT citizens because it wasn't about ILLEGAL aliens.

Plyler v Doe also was about due process rights. If ANYTHING, these cases only prove that there is at least some question on this issue YOU claim is clearly defined in the 14th. And you've still not explained how Native Americans who were born on US soil and under US law and under geographical jurisdiction of the US government... were NOT legal citizens according to the 14th?

You can rationalize all you like, the facts are the facts. For 33 years AFTER the Wong decision, Native Americans were born on US soil, under US law, under geographical jurisdiction of US government... but were NOT automatic citizens by birth. It took passage of an act by Congress to make them citizens... this is a STATUTORY issue and Congress has plenary power.

I have explained over and over why Native Americans were not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. It was widely discussed during the discussions in Congress during the passage of the 14th Amendment.

You just reject anything other than your own preconceived notions- not my problem.

Meanwhile- as the Supreme Court noted:

The Court continues to abide by this understanding to this day. In INS v. Rios-Pineda (1985), Justice White noted for a unanimous Court that “respondent wife [an illegal alien] had given birth to a child, who, born in the United States, was a citizen of this country.”[

Believe whatever BS you want to believe.
 
Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one and give us a link.


I thought you said Constitutional scholars agreed with you.
 
Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one and give us a link.


I thought you said Constitutional scholars agreed with you.

The guy has just wasted everyone's time. He has argued all day with people providing credible links and posting text and he played like he could back up his position. Turns out his only source is a radio talk show guy with an agenda and talking poingts and an audience full of low information suckers.
 
Mark Levin is not a recognized constitutional expert.

:roflmao:

bachelor's degree in Political Science in 1977 at age 19
Levin won election to the Cheltenham school board in 1977
In 1980 Levin earned a juris doctor from Temple University Beasley School of Law.
1981, Levin served as an adviser to several members of PresidentRonald Reagan's cabinet, eventually becoming the associate director of presidential personnel and ultimately chief of staff to Attorney GeneralEdwin Meese during the Iran–Contra affair; Levin also served as deputy assistant secretary for elementary and secondary education at the U.S. Department of Education, and deputy solicitor of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
He practiced law in the private sector and is president of Landmark Legal Foundation, a public interest law firm founded in 1976
Landmark has litigated a number of cases up to and before the US Supreme Court.
Levin authored the 2005 book Men In Black: How The Supreme Court Is Destroying America

I'll go with his resume.
 
I have explained over and over why Native Americans were not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

I know, and you can just keep on 'splainin how people somehow popped out of momma's womb all over fucking America from 1890 to 1923, but miraculously, were NOT US CITIZENS BY BIRTHRIGHT!

Please... MORE COWBELL!
 
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one and give us a link.


I thought you said Constitutional scholars agreed with you.

The guy has just wasted everyone's time. He has argued all day with people providing credible links and posting text and he played like he could back up his position. Turns out his only source is a radio talk show guy with an agenda and talking poingts and an audience full of low information suckers.


As is the case every single time a liberal asks for a source here. Nothing new!
 
Mark Levin is not a recognized constitutional expert.

:roflmao:

bachelor's degree in Political Science in 1977 at age 19
Levin won election to the Cheltenham school board in 1977
In 1980 Levin earned a juris doctor from Temple University Beasley School of Law.
1981, Levin served as an adviser to several members of PresidentRonald Reagan's cabinet, eventually becoming the associate director of presidential personnel and ultimately chief of staff to Attorney GeneralEdwin Meese during the Iran–Contra affair; Levin also served as deputy assistant secretary for elementary and secondary education at the U.S. Department of Education, and deputy solicitor of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
He practiced law in the private sector and is president of Landmark Legal Foundation, a public interest law firm founded in 1976
Landmark has litigated a number of cases up to and before the US Supreme Court.
Levin authored the 2005 book Men In Black: How The Supreme Court Is Destroying America

I'll go with his resume.

Yeah- that sure screams 'constitutional authority'- lol.

Compare to Jame Ho

James C. Ho is a partner in the Dallas office of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. He has over a decade of government experience, including all three branches of the federal government, and most recently as Solicitor General of Texas, the State’s chief appellate lawyer.


An experienced appellate, business, and constitutional litigator, Mr. Ho is 21-3 as lead counsel in various federal and state courts, including 3-0 before the U.S. Supreme Court, in cases decided by opinion. His amicus briefs have been cited by the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the Fifth and Seventh Circuits, and the Texas Supreme Court.


In addition, Mr. Ho counsels clients on constitutional issues and legal strategy in disputes involving the executive and legislative branches of state and federal government and in other adversarial contexts. He has testified before Congress and the Texas Legislature.


Mr. Ho has been recognized as a leading appellate and constitutional lawyer by The National Law Journal, Law360, Texas Lawyer, and Texas Super Lawyers. Law360 noted his “impressive string of victories before state and federal appeals courts,” while The National Law Journal placed him among the “upper echelons of Supreme Court practice.”

Government and Public Service Experience


As Solicitor General of Texas, Mr. Ho represented and counseled Attorney General Greg Abbott and other government officials and agencies in the State’s most difficult legal disputes. He has the highest win rate at the U.S. Supreme Court of any Texas solicitor general, and is the first state solicitor general in the nation to be invited by the Court to express the views of a state. He also received three Supreme Court Best Brief Awards from the National Association of Attorneys General.


Mr. Ho has also held a variety of significant legal positions across the federal government. On Capitol Hill, he served as chief counsel to Senator John Cornyn and to the Senate Judiciary Subcommittees on the Constitution and Immigration. He was named one of the best 35 Congressional aides under 35 by The Hill. At the Justice Department, he was the second highest political appointee at the Civil Rights Division. He also worked at the Office of Legal Counsel, advising White House and other senior officials on constitutional and other complex legal issues. In addition, he served as a law clerk for Judge Jerry E. Smith of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and Justice Clarence Thomas of the U.S. Supreme Court. Before law school, he was a legislative aide to State Senator Quentin Kopp.
 
I have explained over and over why Native Americans were not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

I know, and you can just keep on 'splainin how people somehow popped out of momma's womb all over fucking America from 1890 to 1923, but miraculously, were NOT US CITIZENS BY BIRTHRIGHT!

Please... MORE COWBELL!

Not my problem that you lack both reading comprehension and the inability to use Google.
 
Mark Levin is not a recognized constitutional expert.

:roflmao:

bachelor's degree in Political Science in 1977 at age 19
Levin won election to the Cheltenham school board in 1977
In 1980 Levin earned a juris doctor from Temple University Beasley School of Law.
1981, Levin served as an adviser to several members of PresidentRonald Reagan's cabinet, eventually becoming the associate director of presidential personnel and ultimately chief of staff to Attorney GeneralEdwin Meese during the Iran–Contra affair; Levin also served as deputy assistant secretary for elementary and secondary education at the U.S. Department of Education, and deputy solicitor of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
He practiced law in the private sector and is president of Landmark Legal Foundation, a public interest law firm founded in 1976
Landmark has litigated a number of cases up to and before the US Supreme Court.
Levin authored the 2005 book Men In Black: How The Supreme Court Is Destroying America

I'll go with his resume.
You will go with it because that is all you have. He has no constitutional credentials. He has a radio show where he gets people all riled up and sells conspiracy theory books.
 
Mark Levin is not a recognized constitutional expert.

:roflmao:

bachelor's degree in Political Science in 1977 at age 19
Levin won election to the Cheltenham school board in 1977
In 1980 Levin earned a juris doctor from Temple University Beasley School of Law.
1981, Levin served as an adviser to several members of PresidentRonald Reagan's cabinet, eventually becoming the associate director of presidential personnel and ultimately chief of staff to Attorney GeneralEdwin Meese during the Iran–Contra affair; Levin also served as deputy assistant secretary for elementary and secondary education at the U.S. Department of Education, and deputy solicitor of the U.S. Department of the Interior.
He practiced law in the private sector and is president of Landmark Legal Foundation, a public interest law firm founded in 1976
Landmark has litigated a number of cases up to and before the US Supreme Court.
Levin authored the 2005 book Men In Black: How The Supreme Court Is Destroying America

I'll go with his resume.

Yeah- that sure screams 'constitutional authority'- lol.

Compare to Jame Ho

James C. Ho is a partner in the Dallas office of Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. He has over a decade of government experience, including all three branches of the federal government, and most recently as Solicitor General of Texas, the State’s chief appellate lawyer.


An experienced appellate, business, and constitutional litigator, Mr. Ho is 21-3 as lead counsel in various federal and state courts, including 3-0 before the U.S. Supreme Court, in cases decided by opinion. His amicus briefs have been cited by the U.S. Supreme Court, the U.S. Courts of Appeals for the Fifth and Seventh Circuits, and the Texas Supreme Court.


In addition, Mr. Ho counsels clients on constitutional issues and legal strategy in disputes involving the executive and legislative branches of state and federal government and in other adversarial contexts. He has testified before Congress and the Texas Legislature.


Mr. Ho has been recognized as a leading appellate and constitutional lawyer by The National Law Journal, Law360, Texas Lawyer, and Texas Super Lawyers. Law360 noted his “impressive string of victories before state and federal appeals courts,” while The National Law Journal placed him among the “upper echelons of Supreme Court practice.”

Government and Public Service Experience


As Solicitor General of Texas, Mr. Ho represented and counseled Attorney General Greg Abbott and other government officials and agencies in the State’s most difficult legal disputes. He has the highest win rate at the U.S. Supreme Court of any Texas solicitor general, and is the first state solicitor general in the nation to be invited by the Court to express the views of a state. He also received three Supreme Court Best Brief Awards from the National Association of Attorneys General.


Mr. Ho has also held a variety of significant legal positions across the federal government. On Capitol Hill, he served as chief counsel to Senator John Cornyn and to the Senate Judiciary Subcommittees on the Constitution and Immigration. He was named one of the best 35 Congressional aides under 35 by The Hill. At the Justice Department, he was the second highest political appointee at the Civil Rights Division. He also worked at the Office of Legal Counsel, advising White House and other senior officials on constitutional and other complex legal issues. In addition, he served as a law clerk for Judge Jerry E. Smith of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit and Justice Clarence Thomas of the U.S. Supreme Court. Before law school, he was a legislative aide to State Senator Quentin Kopp.

And what does a real Constitutional expert James Ho say?

The original understanding of the Citizenship Clause is further reinforced by judicial precedent. In United States v. Wong Kim Ark (1898), the U.S. Supreme Court confirmed that a child born in the U.S., but to alien parents, is nevertheless entitled to birthright citizenship under the Fourteenth Amendment. Wong Kim Ark was born in San Francisco to alien Chinese parents who “were never employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under the emperor of China.” After traveling to China on a temporary visit, he was denied permission to return to the U.S.; the government argued that he was not a citizen, notwithstanding his U.S. birth, through an aggressive reading of the Chinese Exclusion Acts.[36]

By a 6–2 vote, the Court rejected the government’s argument:

“The fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the territory, in the allegiance and under the protection of the country, including all children here born of resident aliens, with the exceptions or qualifications (as old as the rule itself) of children of foreign sovereigns or their ministers, or born on foreign public ships, or of enemies within and during a hostile occupation of part of our territory, and with the single additional exception of children of members of the Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes. … To hold that the fourteenth amendment of the constitution excludes from citizenship the children born in the United States of citizens or subjects of other countries, would be to deny citizenship to thousands of persons of English, Scotch, Irish, German, or other European parentage, who have always been considered and treated as citizens of the United States.”[37]

This sweeping language reaches all aliens regardless of immigration status.[38] To be sure, the question of illegal aliens was not explicitly presented in Wong Kim Ark. But any doubt was put to rest in Plyler v. Doe (1982).

Plyler construed the Fourteenth Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause, which requires every State to afford equal protection of the laws “to any person within its jurisdiction.” By a 5–4 vote, the Court held that Texas cannot deny free public school education to undocumented children, when it provides such education to others.

To be sure, the question of illegal aliens was not explicitly presented in Wong Kim Ark. But any doubt was put to rest in Plyler v. Doe.

But although the Court splintered over the specific question of public education, all nine justices agreed that the Equal Protection Clause protects legal and illegal aliens alike. And all nine reached that conclusion precisely because illegal aliens are “subject to the jurisdiction” of the U.S., no less than legal aliens and U.S. citizens.

Writing for the majority, Justice Brennan explicitly rejected the contention that “persons who have entered the United States illegally are not ‘within the jurisdiction’ of a State even if they are present within a State’s boundaries and subject to its laws. Neither our cases nor the logic of the Fourteenth Amendment supports that constricting construction of the phrase ‘within its jurisdiction.’” In reaching this conclusion, Brennan invoked the Citizenship Clause and the Court’s analysis in Wong Kim Ark, noting that

“[e]very citizen or subject of another country, while domiciled here, is within the allegiance and the protection, and consequently subject to the jurisdiction, of the United States.” … [N]o plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment ‘ jurisdiction’ can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident aliens whose entry was unlawful.”[39]

The four dissenting justices – Chief Justice Burger, joined by Justices White, Rehnquist, and O’Connor – rejected Brennan’s application of equal protection to the case at hand. But they pointedly expressed “no quarrel” with his threshold determination that “the Fourteenth Amendment applies to aliens who, after their illegal entry into this country, are indeed physically ‘within the jurisdiction’ of a state.”[40]
 
The SCOTUS rules on the basis of the Constitution. They have ruled that the 14th Amendment did nothing more than continue the common law tradition that defined a citizen by where they were born. Since our founding, citizenship was conferred on anyone born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction. The 14th gave that principal the force of Constitutional law; meaning it cannot be disturbed by Congress or any other legislative body. Much like Dred Scott has to be overturned by Constitutional Amendment, the holding in Wong Kim also requires a constitutional amendment to change it.

Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.
Name one, moron.
 
I have explained over and over why Native Americans were not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

I know, and you can just keep on 'splainin how people somehow popped out of momma's womb all over fucking America from 1890 to 1923, but miraculously, were NOT US CITIZENS BY BIRTHRIGHT!

Please... MORE COWBELL!
Because, there were racist pricks like you who claimed that Indians were nationals of the reservations they were forced to live on. M
 
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The SCOTUS rules on the basis of the Constitution. They have ruled that the 14th Amendment did nothing more than continue the common law tradition that defined a citizen by where they were born. Since our founding, citizenship was conferred on anyone born in the US and subject to its jurisdiction. The 14th gave that principal the force of Constitutional law; meaning it cannot be disturbed by Congress or any other legislative body. Much like Dred Scott has to be overturned by Constitutional Amendment, the holding in Wong Kim also requires a constitutional amendment to change it.

Again, Wong is not about ILLEGAL ALIENS!

Wong Kim Ark is about citizenship by birth- doesn't mention illegal aliens at all.

But Plyler v. Doe did make clear that anyone in the United States is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

And that resolved any remaining legal questions.

Plyer v Doe is about due process rights. "subject to jurisdiction of law" is not the same as "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" in the 14th. You are taking a different contextual meaning of a similar concept.

Wong is only about citizenship by birth if you are an immigrant who has met the jurisdiction requirement which Wong did. An illegal alien is not "subject to the jurisdiction" until they become legal status. Now, maybe a Congress or President grants them such status? If so, they become citizens. But there is nothing in the Constitution or the 14th that grants automatic birthright citizenship... Nor can it, according to Article 1 Section 8 Clause 4 of the Constitution.
You can not find one constitutional scholar that support your concept. The issue you speak of is addressed in the link to the article I posted. My interpretation after reading the expert is that you are mistaken and misguided in your analysis.

Funny.. .every Constitutional scholar I've heard has agreed with me.




Except the ones on the Supreme Court.
 

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