Trump and Evangelical religion pro's and con's. Should Religion even be involved in the election?

[daveman]

It doesn't have to be nationalist but it will have to be socialist. Your claim that if it's socialist, it's "not good" is false.

Your wet dreams are not set in stone. Stop pretending they are.

 

[daveman]

National socialism? Why don't you use the proper term.....which is Democratic Socialism as what is seen in Sweden and Norway?

Except...it's not.

Nordic Countries Aren’t Actually Socialist​

Nordic countries are often used internationally to prove that socialism works. It’s true that social democratic parties are enjoying success in this part of the world. Yet while Nordic countries are seeing a partial comeback for social democratic parties, their policies aren’t in fact socialist, but centrist.

Nordic nations—and especially Sweden—did embrace socialism between around 1970 and 1990. During the past 30 years, however, both conservative and social democratic-led governments have moved toward the center. Today, the Nordic social democrats have adopted stricter immigration policies, tightened eligibility requirements for welfare benefit systems, taken a tougher stance on crime, and carried out business-friendly policies.

The Nordic welfare system that people like to point to as a flourishing example of socialism was developed around 1970, when there was a policy shift throughout Nordic societies toward higher taxes and generous public benefits. In the century preceding that turn, Nordic countries had combined small public sectors and free markets to achieve strong economic growth. From around 1870 to 1970, for instance, Sweden’s per capita GDP increased around tenfold, the highest growth rate in all of Europe. It was after this period of rapidly growing prosperity that there was a shift to high-tax policies. The public remained skeptical of direct tax raises, and the shift largely occurred through gradual rises in the indirect payroll tax.

It wasn’t an unusual trajectory: Researchers have shown that countries with higher trust levels tend to have larger and more generous welfare systems. And trust and social responsibility have historically been strong in this region, in part due to the need for collaboration in the unforgiving Nordic climate—stronger, indeed, than in the rest of Europe.

As a result of the shift away from low-tax policies, however, economic growth stagnated. Over the past 50 years, for instance, Swedish GDP per capita has only grown by a factor of 2.1. More importantly, the norms relating to hard work and responsibility have started to erode, according to measurements by the World Value Survey, as welfare has increased. For example, in the early 1980s, 19 percent of Swedes agreed that it could be justified to some degree for someone to claim public welfare when they weren’t eligible. This share gradually increased to 40 percent in 2011, and it has since fallen to 36 percent following stricter control of welfare systems and public campaigns warning against overuse.

Today, Nordic nations still have higher taxes and more generous welfare systems than most parts of the world. But since the 1990s, Sweden and other Nordic nations have focused on strengthening those norms of social responsibility again by increasing the control of public welfare systems, reducing generosity in the welfare models, and lowering taxes.

Indeed, many Nordic policies now promote free trade and free enterprise. The Heritage Foundation’s Index of Economic Freedom, which measures how capitalist a country is by studying regulation and taxation in different areas of the economy, ranks Denmark and Iceland as the 10th and 11th most capitalist countries in the world. Finland comes in at 17th, Sweden at 21st, and Norway at 28th. By comparison, the United States is ranked 20th. Property rights, business freedom, monetary freedom, and trade freedom are strong in the Nordic nations.

Denmark Tells Bernie Sanders It's Had Enough Of His 'Socialist' Slurs​

The Danes apparently have grown weary of Sen. Bernie Sanders insulting their country. Denmark is not a socialist nation, says its prime minister. It has a "market economy."

Sanders, the Democratic presidential candidate who calls himself a socialist, has used Denmark as the example of the socialist utopia he wants to create in America. During the Democrats' first debate last month, he said "we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn from what they have accomplished for their working people."

While appearing in New Hampshire in September, Sanders said that he had "talked to a guy from Denmark" who told him that in Denmark, "it is very hard to become very, very rich, but it's pretty hard to be very, very poor."

"And that makes a lot of sense to me."

So because something makes sense to him, he has the right to force that system on people who don't want it? Isn't that what he's saying?

But we digress. This is about Danes being offending by Sanders using the word "socialist" to describe their form of government. And who can blame them, especially when the free world has had enough of national socialists and Soviet socialists and North Korean socialists and Cuban socialists?

While speaking at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government, the center-right Danish Prime Minister Lars Lokke Rasmussen said he was aware "that some people in the U.S. associate the Nordic model with some sort of socialism."

"Therefore," he said, "I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."

 

[daveman]

Because national socialism is socially conservative. The liberals might lean towards socialism, but their other practices and ideas undermine civilization. We also have a really bad Zionist problem.

Yup. Just another piece of shit proto-Nazi.

 

[daveman]

Nonsense. You can tell your employer to fuck off any time you want. That's not slavery. You don't have that option if government is your employer, or your landlord, or your grocer. If they control these things, if they are your only source for providing for your family, they control you - completely and totally.

I can't care. Again, I prefer freedom.

The people own the means of production now. You want government to own the means of production. That's what this is all about, transferring power from the people to the state.

Yes. You've mentioned that. I prefer freedom.

I think he believes he'll be given a plush corner office, a seat on the Politburo, a nice dacha in the woods outside of town -- and control of the Secret Police to disappear Thoughtcriminals.

 

[daveman]

Only men could vote in 1800. Washington never publicly disclosed his religious views . Adams Jefferson and Madison were rational Theists. They were not Bible believing blood of salvation Christians like today’s white evangelical Republican Christian nationalists are.

I would like to go back to the original religious atmosphere of our founding generation when only one out of five living in the thirteen colonies belonged to a church.

Tough shit for you, innit? Are you going to outlaw religion when you're in charge?

 

[daveman]

You're speaking gibberish.



You can quit and not have a source of income. How are you going to pay your bills? You'll go hungry and get evicted from your apartment or won't pay your mortgage until you find another job (another unaccountable dictator to work for). You'll lose your healthcare and any other benefits that you were receiving. You're trivializing the loss of employment, one's only lifeline, to having food, a roof..etc.

You can't leave your job and get another one and then leave that job and continue hopping from one job to another. One master to another. You need to work for your capitalist master (Adam Smith, called capitalists, "masters"), for at least several years or your work history is going to look like crap and no one will hire you. Then you're screwed. So this idea that you can just easily quit your job is preposterous and ridiculous.

A democratic government is actually less authoritarian and more accountable than a private employer.

All kinds of Help Wanted signs around here. You'd know that if you'd ever looked for a job.

 

[daveman]

Do you quit a lot of jobs? Your work history must look like crap, What jobs are these? Fast food restaurants? Ridiculous. You can't just leave your job, and lose your only income, your healthcare..etc. You'll have to go maybe six months without health insurance.

Fear mongering. You're trying to make people afraid so they support your bullshit.

What a retard.

Normal people don't need their hands held and their bottoms powdered by Big Daddy Government. You're projecting your weakness on everybody else.

 

[daveman]

I don’t work where I dont want to. I left a job a couple months ago, and found another, right a way. The idea that you work for bad employers is ridiculous. Grow a pair and quit, this will lead to change.

He's a socialist. He has a Dominant Daddy/Little Girl fetish for government.

It's impossible for him to grow a pair.

 

[daveman]

So you jump from one exploiter to another. How many different jobs do you have yearly, two, or three? Your employment history on your resume must be two or three pages long. Many people have their health insurance through their employer, so if they're jumping from one employer to another, they won't have healthcare coverage. You also enjoy working in totalitarian environments. OK, I guess you're into spending most of your waking hours in a dictatorship.

I know this will come as a shock to you, but people can make their own decisions. You don't get to run their lives for them. Even if you stamp your feet and threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue.

Idiot child.

 

[daveman]

Still beats the hell out of compulsory state employment.

"Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem."

"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery."

-- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Papageorgio]

You got me there. By the same token, Wilson was one of our worst presidents ever. Much like Trump!

Actually he was revered by progressives and rates 11-13 in most Presidental rankings. Here is one:

C-SPAN Survey on Presidents 2021

www.c-span.org

Historical rankings of presidents of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Papageorgio]

So you jump from one exploiter to another. How many different jobs do you have yearly, two, or three? Your employment history on your resume must be two or three pages long. Many people have their health insurance through their employer, so if they're jumping from one employer to another, they won't have healthcare coverage. You also enjoy working in totalitarian environments. OK, I guess you're into spending most of your waking hours in a dictatorship.

I usually stay where I like to be, I had a job for 7months, didn’t like the work load and no time off so I quit and moved on, it is using my freedom to work where I like it. I am not being exploited, I have owned my own businesses and don’t want the responsibility it brings, so I work for a company I can help make successful, and if I don’t like it, I can leave so there is no dictatorship. I also bargained to get my insurance in 30 days. When you are good at what you do, people want and are willing to pay for it.

 

[Luckyone]

Actually he was revered by progressives and rates 11-13 in most Presidental rankings. Here is one:

C-SPAN Survey on Presidents 2021

www.c-span.org

Historical rankings of presidents of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did you see that on your wikipedia link, Wilson is ranked 28th?

 

[dblack]

I usually stay where I like to be, I had a job for 7months, didn’t like the work load and no time off so I quit and moved on, it is using my freedom to work where I like it. I am not being exploited, I have owned my own businesses and don’t want the responsibility it brings, so I work for a company I can help make successful, and if I don’t like it, I can leave so there is no dictatorship. I also bargained to get my insurance in 30 days. When you are good at what you do, people want and are willing to pay for it.

You don't even have to be that good. It's not so hard to stand up for yourself.

Socialists want us to believe that, without constant government oversight, we'd all just wallow in the muck helplessly until we expired.

They gotta sell that shit somehow, I guess.

 

[Papageorgio]

Did you see that on your wikipedia link, Wilson is ranked 28th?

Out of 45, most have him in the top 20