Trump: combat dead and wounded in Afghanistan "FOOLISHLY SPENT"

[NotfooledbyW]

SavannahMann, post: 18941543

You know, partisans on both sides are completely full of shit.

And you are not of course.

Are you reading what's on this thread or just lashing out at perceived partisans?

You could comment on my point no matter your pure, sincere and most intelligent opinion on the war in general. My point is that Trump has inherited a military situation there that is one tenth as difficult to deal with in terms of number of US troops deployed, while continuing to pursue the prinary objective

Ten times better is improvement. Do you agree.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Are you claiming the war in Afghanistan was executed without error?

No. My point was quite clear. Trump has inherited a military situation in Afghanistan that is ten times better than it was in 2009.

That is based on the metric that Trump has announced that he will defeat the Taliban with as few as 10,000 US troops.

In 2009 according to General Mchrystal that same military objective was achievable only by deploying over 100,000 troops.

It's not a trick question.

Do you consider these facts to be true?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ColonelAngus, post: 18941787

Are you claiming the war in Afghanistan was executed without error?

Get out of fake reality. I am claiming no such thing. Trump said the entirety of all military spending on both of Bush's wars was foolish.

That is an atrocious disrespect of our military and specifically for those injured and killed serving under General McChrystal and those who followed him.

Trump trashed McChrystal. Why do you put up with it?

And now Trump brags how he will defeat the Taliban with 10,000 troops after trashing the men and women in uniform that made his task so much easier. Ten times easier.

 

[LaDexter]

W said of OBL "he's not a priority."


OK, then WTF was the "priority....???"

 

[ABikerSailor]

W said of OBL "he's not a priority."


OK, then WTF was the "priority....???"

Taking out Saddam and cleaning up the mess that his daddy left behind back in the mid 90's.

 

[LaDexter]

Taking out Saddam and cleaning up the mess that his daddy left behind back in the mid 90's

W's dad left no mess. W's dad did exactly the right thing - take Saddam out of Kuwait under a UN flag and turn the mess over to the UN. Iraq in 2001 was in no way a US problem. Saddam was a toothless non-problem. The only problem is that we had a traitor in the WH named W, and he didn't care about America, he cared about ISRAEL...

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I haven't ridiculed Obama for sending Troops. But he did wait a while to deploy them and 50,000 less than was needed by the general.

Apparantly Obama sent enough.

According to John McCain:

"John McCain: Sustain success in Afghanistan

John McCain, Joseph I. Lieberman and Lindsey Graham Wednesday, Mar 21, 2012

John McCain (R-Ariz.), Joseph I. Lieberman (I-Conn.) and Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"Significant military progress has been made in Afghanistan — progress that we have personally witnessed over repeated visits. Four years ago, southern Afghanistan was overrun by the Taliban, and our coalition lacked the resources and the strategy necessary to break their momentum. Today, that situation has been reversed, thanks to the president’s surge of forces, the leadership of talented military commanders, and the courage and perseverance of our troops.

Similarly, our effort to build the Afghan National Security Forces — which was under-resourced and disorganized four years ago — has been overhauled. Growing numbers of Afghan units are increasingly capable of leading the fight. The examples of the few Afghan soldiers who despicably turned their weapons on Americans should not obscure the fact that hundreds of thousands of Afghans fight every day as our faithful allies in a common battle against al-Qaeda and the Taliban and that these Afghan patriots are wounded and killed in far greater numbers than our forces. Afghans bear an overwhelming and increasing share of this war. This should give us hope that our common goal, an Afghanistan that can secure and govern itself, remains achievable over time."


NotfooooldbyW 23 March 2012 07:31 AM 20120322p0628 Ntfldbw Bush told no lies to get us involved in Afghanistan


Read more: John McCain: Sustain success in Afghanistan | Forum


Or do you not like John McCain so you can be like Trump?

Donald Trump criticizes military veteran and Senator John McCain, saying, "He's not a war hero. He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured." (

 

[LaDexter]

John McCain, Joseph I. Lieberman and Lindsey Graham

are three of the worst ZIONIST TRAITORS, behind only FEINSTEIN in the US Senate.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

ColonelAngus, post: 18941787

Since when do liberals dig war?

Dont dig war. But I take the matter seriously to heart and mind. And I don't approach my views on America's wars as a liberal or conservative position. Look at merit and fact as an American.

One of the reasons Trump and the Pentagon has it 10 times easier now than in 2009 is this according to Senator John McCain back in 2013.

"The examples of the few Afghan soldiers who despicably turned their weapons on Americans should not obscure the fact that hundreds of thousands of Afghans fight every day as our faithful allies in a common battle against al-Qaeda and the Taliban and that these Afghan patriots are wounded and killed in far greater numbers than our forces. Afghans bear an overwhelming and increasing share of this war. This should give us hope that our common goal, an Afghanistan that can secure and govern itself, remains achievable over time."

Read more: John McCain: Sustain success in Afghanistan | Forum

 

[LaDexter]

"Liberal" supporters of the Zionist Treason that was the US invasions of Iraq and Afghan...


DIANNE FEINSTEIN
HENRY WAXMAN
ED KOCH
DICK MORRIS
SANDY THE BURGLAR
MADELLEINE ALLBRIGHT
CHUCKY SCHUMER


and Graham and McAIPAC and LIEBERMAN....

 

[NotfooledbyW]

mikegriffith1, post: 18914346

Oh, my: a liberal pretending to care about our troops.

Why did you create a fake reality that you know that I don't care about the troops. I care much more than you. You sell them out for love of Trump.


NotfooledbyW, post: 18883229

. You were fools to serve according to Trump.

I do not think the troops were fools to serve under Obama and Bush. You and Trump do.

I am certain that Bush was dead wrong to invade Iraq and before he did it, I marched against him doing it. (Did you?) Once he did it -too damn late. Now deal with reality. But out of respect for the troops never say what Trump said for his own personal aggrandizement, I would say the our men and women in uniform spent thier time in Iraq professionally under under the best military leadership under the circumstances.

Nothing was foolishly spent as far as I'm concerned. Bush broke the china in Iraq. We owned it after that.

Bush was a lying fool to break the China, but he did it.

I am nothing like Trump. You the alleged conservative are.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

"After having FOOLISHLY spent $7 trillion in the Middle East, it is time to start rebuilding our country" Trump.

Tell me, what have we gained? In my opinion, what we gained we lost, and our troops paid the price.

Regarding Afghanistan: 'jknowgood' now knows from participating in this thread that America gained such a measurable improvement on the ground in Afghanistan that Trump is now able to boast that he can defeat the Taliban and terrorists there with 10,000 Us troops.

In 2009 'jknowgood' supported Obama sending well over 100,000 troops in order to defeat the Taliban.

'jknowgood' with Trump denies our troops seven years of a tenfold gain for which they deserve our utmost respect, credit and appreciation,

Had Trump tweeted it this way, our troops maintain the credit they deserve:

"After having spent $7 trillion in the Middle East, it is time to start rebuilding our country" not Trump.

Same point about infrastructure comes across without the political attack on Obama who made Trump's military leadership tasks ten times easier.

Confronted with reality it appears 'jknowgood' has packed up and taken his fake reality elsewhere.

 

[rightwinger]

ColonelAngus, post: 18941787

Are you claiming the war in Afghanistan was executed without error?

Get out of fake reality. I am claiming no such thing. Trump said the entirety of all military spending on both of Bush's wars was foolish.

That is an atrocious disrespect of our military and specifically for those injured and killed serving under General McChrystal and those who followed him.

Trump trashed McChrystal. Why do you put up with it?

And now Trump brags how he will defeat the Taliban with 10,000 troops after trashing the men and women in uniform that made his task so much easier. Ten times easier.

Telling the truth about the merits of a war is not disrespectful to those who died

What is disrespectful is sending them into unnecessary conflicts

 

[NotfooledbyW]

rightwinger, post: 18946755

What is disrespectful is sending them into unnecessary conflicts

Iraq was unnecessary. Afghanistan was not. So we disagree on one. Being able to distinguish the difference is absolutely necessary.

And my point is that once Bush invaded Iraq it was too late to do anything about it. Bush invaded, sorry to say then, America owned it

Trump owned it specifically because he was for it, like 'jknowgood' and ColonelAngus.

Because the UN inspections were working, I opposed it in the streets and in letters to Bush and Congress and the newspapers.

So calling the entire campaign that all Americans had to do in Iraq as well as Afghanistan FOOLISH in one broad tweet, solely to take a political swipe at Obama, is the utmost disrespect for our troops, the military and our entire country.

I am pointing out the hypocrisy and lack of moral integrity and character of conservatives like jknowgood' and ColonelAngus.who supported both wars, learned nothing, yet now slobber all over Trump and his disrespectful tweet because it is a fake reality slap at Obama..

There were well over 200,000 US troops serving honorably in Iraq and Afghanistan during the worst recession since the Great Depression, when Obama had to deal with it. Now in the conservative fake reality Trump is America's sudden savior needing only 15,000 troops to WIN.

jknowgood' and ColonelAngus are pathetic dishonorable Americans for defending Trump's tweet and pretending that is not what he meant.

Trump shit on our troops. I detest him for that. All Americans should do the same.

Do you agree?

 

[SavannahMann]

SavannahMann, post: 18941543

You know, partisans on both sides are completely full of shit.

And you are not of course.

Are you reading what's on this thread or just lashing out at perceived partisans?

You could comment on my point no matter your pure, sincere and most intelligent opinion on the war in general. My point is that Trump has inherited a military situation there that is one tenth as difficult to deal with in terms of number of US troops deployed, while continuing to pursue the prinary objective

Ten times better is improvement. Do you agree.

I have covered your points. You just don’t like to admit it.

What is Victory? We originally declared that destroying Al Queda and getting OBL was Victory. The Taliban was just in our way, protecting and supporting us. Then we were forced to admit that Al Queda was just one of a hundred militant Islamic groups in the world. So we decided that Victory would be a remade Afghanistan. When that was the goal, John McCain said we were willing to stay there for a hundred years to accomplish the task. It would have taken a Century at least.

So what is Victory today? Now it is again Afghanistan free of the Taliban. When that was the goal, hand in glove with destroying AQ, we bitchd and moaned about how the Taliban was safe across the border in Pakistan.

Well, we decided to train up the Afghani military and create a stable military using modern warfare techniques, or something, to fight the Taliban. So we had that and drew down and the predictable happened. The Military didn’t fight for shit against their countrymen and the religious leaders they knew and respected. So we surged.

You see, if we pull out and the Taliban takes over, that is a defeat. But we are still hampered by the same problems that we were hampered by before. The Taliban is free to go out of bounds so to speak, across into Pakistan, and the Pakistani Government is not going to commit suicide by trying to establish direct control over the tribal areas. Pakistan would have to use pretty much all their military, and they’re too busy hoping to win the Kashmire region that is disputed with India.

By attacking the Tribal regions bordering with Afghanistan, Pakistan essentially cedes the disputed region with India. So the Taliban has a Safe Space where they can stay and laugh at us. We could go in, if we wanted to act of war against Pakistan. Pakistan would have to object, perhaps violently, to the incursion or risk riots and perhaps having the government toppled. So we could go in, and get the Taliban out of their safe space, but in doing so put the Taliban in control of Pakistan.

So what happens in a decade? What happens when we finally pull out? Inside of two years later, the Taliban, no matter what they call themselves, win.

As for my “feelings on war” you have no idea what I think about anything. I’ve given you examples in this thread of how your insane rants have more in common with the Nazi’s and the Japanese who refused to admit defeat. I’ve explained how you were not sounding like Churchill with the intelligent defiance based on solid military thinking.

I’ve pointed out that essentially nobody has ever conquered Afghanistan. The Persians had the best success there, and that was limited. In two and a half thousand years, nobody has conquered the nation for long.

So how do we win? Our conditions for victory now are no more Taliban. That’s just idiotic. The only way to get rid of the Taliban is to modernize the entire nation, and drag them kicking and screaming into the modern world. Otherwise the tribal chiefs are going to keep ruling as they have for two thousand years. We would have to start educating the children today, and in twenty years, when we started to educate their children, and their grand children after that, we would start to make a dent in these social norms.

Japan was easy. The Emporer worked with us to create a vibrant and powerful Economic Japan. The Japanese People followed their leader, and rejected the Militarists once and for all. That was demonstrated when the Japanese people voted against reestablishing a military in the 1950’s.

Germany was a little harder, but still relatively easy. The average German person was sick of war, sick of the losses, sick of the destruction, and here is the important last thing, afraid of falling under the Soviets. So Western Germany while they might resent the allies, did not resent the allies so much that they wanted to be easy pickings for the Soviets.

American Defiance during the Berlin Airlift showed that we were not going to abandon them to the hated Soviets, so the Germans started to really get behind a democratic nation. There again, the leaders were able to direct the genius of the German People into economic concerns, and unlike World War One, there was not an embargo against German products. The people could make quality items, and sell them to the world, which they could not do after War One.

If you look at any successful invasion, there are two ways of winning. One, decimate the opponents to the point where resistance is futile and they reluctantly decide life as a subject is better than death. See the American Indian for that result. Option two. Win the support of the people. If you don’t do that, you are lost. See Vietnam, Afghanistan, and through history literally a thousand examples. The Persians in Greece. They just could not get the Greeks to settle down and give a little earth and water and a tiny amount of treasure each year to the Persians.

The Carib Indians went with national death instead of defeat and subjugation. History is full of these stories, and pretending that one side or the other is the way to victory ignores the truth of history. We won’t win in Afghanistan. There is no Soviet threat to scare them. There is only what they want, which is religious based leadership through the Taliban. Certainly not all, but more than enough for the Taliban to win within two years of our departure.

So how do you stop that from happening? You stay there, indefinitely. We haven’t lost if we haven’t pulled out and the Taliban isn’t in charge. We can’t win, and we are delaying defeat is all we are accomplishing.

We never had a plan for victory. We had a plan to win the battles, but the war was something we would worry about later.

 

[rightwinger]

rightwinger, post: 18946755

What is disrespectful is sending them into unnecessary conflicts

Iraq was unnecessary. Afghanistan was not. So we disagree on one. Being able to distinguish the difference is absolutely necessary.

And my point is that once Bush invaded Iraq it was too late to do anything about it. Bush invaded, sorry to say then, America owned it

Trump owned it specifically because he was for it, like 'jknowgood' and ColonelAngus.

Because the UN inspections were working, I opposed it in the streets and in letters to Bush and Congress and the newspapers.

So calling the entire campaign that all Americans had to do in Iraq as well as Afghanistan FOOLISH in one broad tweet, solely to take a political swipe at Obama, is the utmost disrespect for our troops, the military and our entire country.

I am pointing out the hypocrisy and lack of moral integrity and character of conservatives like jknowgood' and ColonelAngus.who supported both wars, learned nothing, yet now slobber all over Trump and his disrespectful tweet because it is a fake reality slap at Obama..

There were well over 200,000 US troops serving honorably in Iraq and Afghanistan during the worst recession since the Great Depression, when Obama had to deal with it. Now in the conservative fake reality Trump is America's sudden savior needing only 15,000 troops to WIN.

jknowgood' and ColonelAngus are pathetic dishonorable Americans for defending Trump's tweet and pretending that is not what he meant.

Trump shit on our troops. I detest him for that. All Americans should do the same.

Do you agree?

We did not have to conquer Afghanistan and create a new country to fight AlQaida. As it was, Bush gave up the chase after bin Laden escaped into Pakistan

As it is......16 years later, we are still there

 

[easyt65]

If soldier lives meant anything to Barry he would not have allowed ISIS mile long convoys to freely flow into Afghanistan to take over territory already libwrated at great cost by US forces...he would not have financed, supplied, armed, protected, defended, aided and abetted Al Qaieda, the Taliban, ISIS, Hezbollah, etc...

 

[NotfooledbyW]

SavannahMann, post: 18948479

I have covered your points. You just don’t like to admit it.

No you didn't. And you still haven't. One tenth the troops are needed now to at least maintain the gains made over the past seven years.

You deny that measurable gain that our military has achieved so you can promote your opinion of what you think victory must be.

Why do you dismiss what has been gained?

What is in it for you? I know what is in it for Trump.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

If soldier lives meant anything to Barry he would not have allowed ISIS mile long convoys to freely flow into Afghanistan to take over territory

Are you retarded? ISIS didn't flow into Iraq in a mile long convoy. Afghanistan not at all.

You can't even keep conservative fake realities straight.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

rightwinger, post: 18948684

We did not have to conquer Afghanistan and create a new country to fight AlQaida. As it was, Bush gave up the chase after bin Laden escaped into Pakistan

We went into Afghanistan because of our inherent right to self defense in the wake of the 9/11 attacks and 9 out of 10 Americans agreed. Anyone paying attention at the time understood that toppling the Taliban meant we were staying.

Three Administrations, Congress , NATO and the US military have not been cowed into surrender.

Trump is digusting to tweet that all has been foolish until him.