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So you propose we regress as a country? How's that work?Stop while your behind....What the fuck are you talking about? Put down the fake news, we don't engineer these things to fail.....One amusing aspect of this debate is watching leftists - who have been banging for years to ramp up an infrastructure program because it would create jobs - try to argue that building this piece of infrastructure wouldn't create many jobs.
It's gonna create a few. But are those few jobs worth risking destroying our beautiful wildlife and lands? And keep in mind, the US Government will seize more land to make these pipelines happen. And if you're a real Small Government Republican, that's very disturbing. I just can't bring myself to jump for joy over this one. The risk/reward doesn't seem worth it.
They don't engineer things to fail, but failure happens. Is a few oil Fatcats getting fatter, really worth the risks? I say no. We need to protect our wildlife and land. And i don't wanna see the Government seizing more Citizens' lands to build such projects. I think Republicans are gonna regret supporting this some day.
The risk/reward doesn't work for me. Only a few oil Fatcats will see profit in this. These pipelines aren't even necessary. I'm an animal and nature lover. We need to start seriously reconsidering destroying our beautiful lands just to make some Fatcats fatter. Money isn't everything. Let's protect our animals and our land.
The land deals are private.....Just curious, how do 'Small Government Republicans' on this thread feel about the US Government seizing more lands to get these projects done? Because i feel most Republicans aren't fully informed about what's going on. Unfortunately, they're going all-in on Big Oil propaganda.
The US Government will have to seize more lands from Citizens to get these projects done. I would think that would be extremely disturbing to real 'Small Government Republicans.' I know i'm very disturbed. But what do the rest of you Republicans on this thread think?
You're oblivious to reality, first of all there's nothing up here to lose by putting pipelines in. The biggest issue is the easement issue with private land a Far bigger issue than the stupid environmental bull shit.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…I never got too worked up over this one. But i am concerned it could adversely effect our environment. Is a few more bucks worth possibly destroying wildlife habitats? I guess that question has just been answered. I'm still torn though. And on another side note, the far Left leader of Canada has fully supported it. Something else for folks to chew on.
Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
I am against easements on private land in most cases and even in some ways on this one. It's much more important issue than the stupid environmental and "sacred land" bullshit of my ancestors.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…I never got too worked up over this one. But i am concerned it could adversely effect our environment. Is a few more bucks worth possibly destroying wildlife habitats? I guess that question has just been answered. I'm still torn though. And on another side note, the far Left leader of Canada has fully supported it. Something else for folks to chew on.
Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
Yeah, i have big concerns. Is it really worth it in the end? I would have to say no. I don't walk in lock-step with any particular entity. I am a Trump supporter, but i side with Native Americans and Environmentalists on this one.
Are you an engineer?There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…I never got too worked up over this one. But i am concerned it could adversely effect our environment. Is a few more bucks worth possibly destroying wildlife habitats? I guess that question has just been answered. I'm still torn though. And on another side note, the far Left leader of Canada has fully supported it. Something else for folks to chew on.
Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
Idiotic says the man who claims Americans will get the oil simply by "demanding" it and even at a lower price.
Keystone won't make the price of gas go down and might make it go up. Here,
The Keystone XL pipeline isn’t about lowering your gas prices
You don't like the Washington Post, try this one.
Keystone XL Won't Lower Gas Prices, It Might Raise Them
Both several years old. Common knowledge for anyone even minimally aware of the issues. Hell, the application to the US for the permit openly admitted it was about opening up additional markets and would generate an additional dollar per barrel in revenue for Canada. That's over a hundred million dollars per month at current levels.
Here's what the US Government says about it --
Increasing American Energy Production Will Lower Gasoline Prices, Create More Jobs
You go ahead and invest in what dimocrap scum say. I'll bet on Republicans.
Let's see who makes out better in the end.
The Keystone XL Pipeline, in conjunction with other initiatives in Energy production, will have a stabilizing effect on Energy prices and will cause them to lower.
The major Oil Producing Countries will be forced to stop throttling their production of Oil. They do that to keep oil prices high. Supply and Demand. You should look into it sometime.
Once we get the Pipeline built and we open the HUGE Oil Reserves in Alaska, the CONSHELF and on Federal Lands..... Prices will plummet.
Oil is really, actually worth about an average of $25 a bbl. Even with the cost of Fracking. Fracked oil needs around $50 a bbl just to make a small profit.
Overall, with all things considered, the price of oil should never exceed $50 a bbl.
One of our biggest problems is -- We haven't built a refinery in something like 50 years. dimocrap SCUM won't let it happen.
The Keystone XL Pipeline is a major benefit to the US Consumer.
That you CHOOSE to believe dimocrap scum is your problem.
It's one thing to be born stupid. It's one thing to suffer brain damage.
It's quite another to CHOOSE to be stupid by believing what dimocrap SCUM have to say about -- Anything.
It's on you. Remember that. When you start whinging and sniveling about all the bad things that happened to you in your youth..... I'm telling you now -- It's on you for believing the wrong message.
Being a dimocrap isn't just a minor thing..... It isn't a political belief that you can change on a whim -- It is way of life.
A very bad way of life.
You'll see. I'm right
You are a flippin idiot. First, you post a partisan Republican house committee report, which is not worth the bandwidth used. Might as well let the oil industry give you the facts.
Second, do you really think we can win a race to the bottom with the Middle East? They can make money at ten dollars a barrel. And in effect, shut down domestic production. It's a fool me once kind of thing.
Third, you got to be smoking some good shit if you believe the federal government and the Trump administration has any desire to move oil prices down. That would curtail domestic production, hell it is the biggest problem now.
Fourth, your refinery argument is foolish. We have vastly expanded capacity. Worse, when you examine that capacity expansion you find it is for, wait for it, EXPORT.
US is becoming the 'refiner to the world'
You can sling shit all you want. Bookmark the thread. Come back to it later, when gas prices are higher, when diesel prices here at home are higher, when the temporary jobs are all dried up, and when there is an environmental catastrophe at both ends, the toxic waste from the refining process and leaks in the pipeline. Then you can tell me what a great deal it was for the American people.
What toxic waste from the refining process?
Are you aware of the fact that petroleum coke is the main byproduct of the process? Petroleum coke has many, many uses. I, for one, have hauled dozens of loads of petcoke to SLC to be used as a landscaping material.
"Uses of Petroleum Coke
Petroleum coke is typically used as a source of energy, or as a source of carbon for industrial applications. Fuel grade petcoke represents nearly 80 percent of worldwide production and is a source of fuel for cement kilns and electric power plants. Calcined petcoke has the highest carbon purity and is used to manufacture energy, as well as in the aluminum, graphite electrode, steel, titanium dioxide and other carbon consuming industries."
Additionally, the EPA does NOT classify petcoke as a hazardous material.
“The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) does not classify petcoke as a hazardous waste. EPA has surveyed the potential human health and environmental impacts of petcoke through its High Production Volume (HPV) Challenge Program and found the material to be highly stable and non-reactive at ambient environmental conditions. Most toxicity analyses of petcoke find it has a low potential to cause adverse effects on aquatic or terrestrial environments as well as a low health hazard potential in humans, with no observed carcinogenic, reproductive, or developmental effects.”
Petroleum Coke | AFPM
Who said anything about Coke? The refining process is inherently damaging to the environment. Visit Port Arthur Texas and get back to me.
Who said anything about "Coke"? From that simple statement you convinced me that you really are clueless and don't know what coking even is.
"Coking coal is an essential ingredient in steel production. It is different to thermal coal which is used to generate power. Coking coal, also known as metallurgic coal, is heated in a coke oven which forces out impurities to produce coke, which is almost pure carbon."
Producing petcoke is much the same as coal coke.
I've been to Port Arthur (I have family near there), and I'm willing to bet that most of the environmental damage done there happened in the past, before technology and corporate responsibility caught up with modern times.
If you're talking about air pollution, I've seen worse air in Denver than I ever did in Port Arthur.
Where I live now, there used to be a Uranium Mill and there mountains of mill tailing. Before the dangers of the tailing were known, they were used in home and business foundations and toppings for driveways, among other things. They're all cleaned up now, but I know what real pollution is.
Additionally, I have lived in areas that had steel mills and coal-fired power plants, and I have spent time in areas that have petroleum refineries. Guess which ones were dirtiest. Go ahead, guess! Never mind paper mills.
Your anti-carbon and anti-nuclear rants have no effect on me.
In 2008 the country exported 1.8 million barrels a day of refined products, according to EIA. By 2012 that number jumped to 3.2 million barrels.
"That trend will continue whether Keystone is built or not," said Brian Milne, a refined fuels editor at Schneider Electric, an information provider
Once refined, it'll be impossible to tell exactly where the oil that came down the pipeline went, but "with more oil, that [export] number will increase," said Milne.
FUCK KEYSTONE, FUCK BIG OIL, FUCK DONALD TRUMP !!!
SUCKERS !!
THE END.
Well, i'm not nearly as emotional. But in general, i have to agree with you. A few oil Fatcats getting fatter, just isn't worth it in the end. The risk/reward doesn't work for me. I'm a big animal and nature lover. These pipelines aren't necessary. Native Americans and Environmentalists were right on this.
I'm not emotional about Keystone per se' ... its the stupidity of American citizens, and their disregard for the elements necessary to live that gets me going.
You're oblivious to reality, first of all there's nothing up here to lose by putting pipelines in. The biggest issue is the easement issue with private land a Far bigger issue than the stupid environmental bull shit.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…I never got too worked up over this one. But i am concerned it could adversely effect our environment. Is a few more bucks worth possibly destroying wildlife habitats? I guess that question has just been answered. I'm still torn though. And on another side note, the far Left leader of Canada has fully supported it. Something else for folks to chew on.
Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
If you lived up here where the pipeline is going through you might have some credibility, but you don't.
In 2008 the country exported 1.8 million barrels a day of refined products, according to EIA. By 2012 that number jumped to 3.2 million barrels.
"That trend will continue whether Keystone is built or not," said Brian Milne, a refined fuels editor at Schneider Electric, an information provider
Once refined, it'll be impossible to tell exactly where the oil that came down the pipeline went, but "with more oil, that [export] number will increase," said Milne.
FUCK KEYSTONE, FUCK BIG OIL, FUCK DONALD TRUMP !!!
SUCKERS !!
THE END.
You're oblivious to reality, first of all there's nothing up here to lose by putting pipelines in. The biggest issue is the easement issue with private land a Far bigger issue than the stupid environmental bull shit.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…I never got too worked up over this one. But i am concerned it could adversely effect our environment. Is a few more bucks worth possibly destroying wildlife habitats? I guess that question has just been answered. I'm still torn though. And on another side note, the far Left leader of Canada has fully supported it. Something else for folks to chew on.
Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
If you lived up here where the pipeline is going through you might have some credibility, but you don't.
In 2008 the country exported 1.8 million barrels a day of refined products, according to EIA. By 2012 that number jumped to 3.2 million barrels.
"That trend will continue whether Keystone is built or not," said Brian Milne, a refined fuels editor at Schneider Electric, an information provider
Once refined, it'll be impossible to tell exactly where the oil that came down the pipeline went, but "with more oil, that [export] number will increase," said Milne.
FUCK KEYSTONE, FUCK BIG OIL, FUCK DONALD TRUMP !!!
SUCKERS !!
THE END.
Well, i'm not nearly as emotional. But in general, i have to agree with you. A few oil Fatcats getting fatter, just isn't worth it in the end. The risk/reward doesn't work for me. I'm a big animal and nature lover. These pipelines aren't necessary. Native Americans and Environmentalists were right on this.
I'm not emotional about Keystone per se' ... its the stupidity of American citizens, and their disregard for the elements necessary to live that gets me going.
I hear ya. It is very difficult observing the willful destruction of our beautiful land and oceans. These people just don't realize that we need clean healthy lands and oceans to survive. They're only supporting their own demise.
And for what? So a few greedy Fatcats can get fatter? These pipelines have been proven to be unnecessary. All the pain & suffering that's coming, didn't have to happen. Republicans need to stop going all-in on Corporate/Government propaganda.
what exactly are they squeezing? I don't get your point.I don't think most Republicans are aware that many who opposed these pipelines were Small Government Republican land owners. The US Government is squeezing them out to make these pipelines happen. It's in the process of seizing more US lands. I don't think most Republicans are fully informed on this issue. Opposition wasn't only about thwarting Environmentalists.
I am against easements on private land in most cases and even in some ways on this one. It's much more important issue than the stupid environmental and "sacred land" bullshit of my ancestors.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…I never got too worked up over this one. But i am concerned it could adversely effect our environment. Is a few more bucks worth possibly destroying wildlife habitats? I guess that question has just been answered. I'm still torn though. And on another side note, the far Left leader of Canada has fully supported it. Something else for folks to chew on.
Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
Yeah, i have big concerns. Is it really worth it in the end? I would have to say no. I don't walk in lock-step with any particular entity. I am a Trump supporter, but i side with Native Americans and Environmentalists on this one.
what exactly are they squeezing? I don't get your point.I don't think most Republicans are aware that many who opposed these pipelines were Small Government Republican land owners. The US Government is squeezing them out to make these pipelines happen. It's in the process of seizing more US lands. I don't think most Republicans are fully informed on this issue. Opposition wasn't only about thwarting Environmentalists.
you know there is pipeline everywhere, even under golf courses. WTF are you talking about?Personally, I think using pipelines to move oil is much more safer for the environment and people.
Transporting oil by train has proven dangerous for the environment and could cause death tolls in heavily populated area if there is one of the too common derailments.
View attachment 108482
But at the same time, I see this as a negative, particularly because it breaks another treaty with the Native Americans and what is highly important to them.
Let me put it this way, if the Dakota Pipeline was scheduled to go through one of Donald Trumps golf courses, it definitely would be diverted. But in this case, it's only Native Americans and who gives a shit about that minority and their heritage.
There is a pattern. They don't want the pipeline because American refineries aren't good enough. They also don't want the pipeline built with American steel because our steel mills aren't good enough.one just can't help the stupid.
BTW, you stupid fool, one million barrels pass that way no matter if it's in a pipe or on a road. Again, how fking stupid are you?
dimocraps are more than just stupid, they're simply scum.
They scream against those who would hurt the environment but forget how harmful it is to ship oil by rail..... (BTW, wanna guess who gets fat off these shipments?)
Oil train derails and catches fire, forcing Oregon town to evacuate
Freight Train Carrying Oil Derails, Catches Fire in Illinois
Train Carrying Oil Derails, Catches Fire In New Brunswick, Canada
dimocraps are simply scum
That's all you need to know about them
it's a pipe!I am against easements on private land in most cases and even in some ways on this one. It's much more important issue than the stupid environmental and "sacred land" bullshit of my ancestors.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
Yeah, i have big concerns. Is it really worth it in the end? I would have to say no. I don't walk in lock-step with any particular entity. I am a Trump supporter, but i side with Native Americans and Environmentalists on this one.
I'm with Native Americans. It is sacred land. We can't destroy everything just to make a few more bucks for folks who are already filthy rich. And that will be the only result of this. These pipelines are not necessary.
so again, here you are with nothing to say. what is it they're squeezing?what exactly are they squeezing? I don't get your point.I don't think most Republicans are aware that many who opposed these pipelines were Small Government Republican land owners. The US Government is squeezing them out to make these pipelines happen. It's in the process of seizing more US lands. I don't think most Republicans are fully informed on this issue. Opposition wasn't only about thwarting Environmentalists.
Yeah Dschrute, you're suppposed to cheer only not ask questions or point out details. They wont be heard over their cheers...
Actually most Indians probably want the economic benefit from the pipeline. I live up here and happen to be an American Indian. If you go and look at where they want to run these pipelines there's really no sacred ground… That's just bullshit for politically correct Indians.I am against easements on private land in most cases and even in some ways on this one. It's much more important issue than the stupid environmental and "sacred land" bullshit of my ancestors.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
Yeah, i have big concerns. Is it really worth it in the end? I would have to say no. I don't walk in lock-step with any particular entity. I am a Trump supporter, but i side with Native Americans and Environmentalists on this one.
I'm with Native Americans. It is sacred land. We can't destroy everything just to make a few more bucks for folks who are already filthy rich. And that will be the only result of this. These pipelines are not necessary.
I am against easements on private land in most cases and even in some ways on this one. It's much more important issue than the stupid environmental and "sacred land" bullshit of my ancestors.There are thousands of pipelines already in place, your political correctness makes you a dumb motherfucker. Get a clue and educate yourself…Of course the Canadian prime minister supports it. The alternative is to build a pipeline to the Canadian west coast. Why pump that sludge over the Queen's land when they can pump that sludge over American land.
Great, we got thousands of miles of pipeline already. We don't need this pipeline. It does not benefit the American people. It is increased environmental risk with no positive benefit for the American people. It is a lose, lose for us. Canada gets a higher price for her oil, we pay hundreds of millions of dollars more per month for their crude. Americans get a higher price of gas, a higher price of diesel, the inflationary aspect of those higher prices rolls through the distribution network and Americans pay more for everything from toilet paper to prunes.
Meanwhile, air and water quality suffer as additional pollutants are released into the atmosphere and waterways from the refining of a particular nasty form of something like oil for the benefit of foreign owned companies and foreign customers.
Stupid.
Yeah, i have big concerns. Is it really worth it in the end? I would have to say no. I don't walk in lock-step with any particular entity. I am a Trump supporter, but i side with Native Americans and Environmentalists on this one.
I'm with Native Americans. It is sacred land. We can't destroy everything just to make a few more bucks for folks who are already filthy rich. And that will be the only result of this. These pipelines are not necessary.
