Trump's pyrrhic victory: The US opts for path that can only lead to war

[candycorn]

He's going to negotiate with terrorists?

Like 0bama did? Yeah I guess you could call it that but Trump won’t give them crates of money, he’ll tell them to get in line or get your ass handed to you. They know he’s serious. They will comply. Just like NK did.

NK hasn't complied with anything yet. So, you're for yet another war in the ME?

But they will. You are disgusting no the point. The point is that the left said he was going to start a war. Where’s the war?

Perhaps give it more than a few weeks....

You’d love that, it’s obvious.

No.

We now have a choice, either militarily wrestle the nuke they are going to develop from them or allow them to have it. That is the path we are now on. Last week, we were on a different path.

 

[candycorn]

Not sure what "domestic political advantage" liberals would derive from another unwinnable war in the middle east but that is your creation. Some of us take matters more seriously than you do it seems.

What you ignore, of course, is the 50+ y/o lesson that the USA/USSR standoff taught the world; that the greatest advantage to nukes is not that you will use them but that you have them in your inventory. Because every other nation is on notice that if you go to war in our front yard, you will have a nuke land in your back yard. The issue is that in those 50+ years the stand off was that the stakes are either destruction or destruction; there was no middle ground so super empowered individuals and groups learned that the nuclear deterrent didn't apply to them so they had no problem attacking the US since we wouldn't use a nuke on a tent in the desert.

Iran's calculation is different. They will nuke Israel if we come at them. So we won't come at them if they have it.

You're making a great deal of simplistic assumptions and projections, which is what partisans do regularly for political advantage. On both ends.

Maybe you don't see that. Who knows.
.

Afghanistan...invaded 2001.
Iraq, invaded in 1990 and again in 2003
Panama invaded in 1989
Syria
Sudan
Somolia
Lybia

All since 1990. All had one thing in common; no nukes.

North Korea has a nuke. Nobody has invaded.

There are no assumptions being made. History teaches some of us a lesson. Maybe you don't see that. Who knows?

except no one ever said "nukes" in many of those wars. hell, the reasons get lost with admin to admin.

as for n korea - it was china, not n korea that stopped it. be real.

Said "nukes"...no idea what you mean by that.

and i have no idea what you mean by nukes in all the counties above as not all have been "nuke" issues?

Okay...what do all of these countries have in common:

Afghanistan...invaded 2001.
Iraq, invaded in 1990 and again in 2003
Panama invaded in 1989
Syria
Sudan
Somolia
Lybia

Times up. These are nations the US has invaded in recent memory.

Now, what do they have in common?

Times up. They didn't have a nuke to deter the invasion.

Now look at North Korea....why haven't we invaded them? We had the troops over there, we have theorhetical just cause that they pose a threat to our neighbors and our vital interests. But we didn't. Why?

Times up. They have a nuke.

If you're in the leadership in Iran, you would be crazy to think that an invasion is far fetched.

 

[blastoff]

Trump’s Pyrrhic Victory: the US Opts for a Path That Can Only Lead to War

Brilliant article and 100% right.

Just the latest lefty doom and gloom wet dream that will take its place atop the growing heap of previously unfulfilled ones soon enough.

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

You will have to excuse my lack in confidence in your understanding about how Muslims think. Perhaps you can provide me a little background which gives you such insights?

Tell me what you know about 12'ver Shia.

I don’t know anything about it. Please do explain

'12th Imam,' Key Facet Of Islamic Prophecy, Fuels Middle East Turmoil


.

That’s an interesting read but I did find it odd that the source of much of its information came from a evangelical baptist Christian (Wagner). Wouldn’t you find an explaination from an actual Muslim, perhaps both a Shiite and a Sunni, to be a little more interesting and accurate when trying to explain their own point of views and interpretations?

The 12th Imam seems to be a similar story as the 2nd coming of Jesus which is a popular Christian belief.

------------------------------------------------ well , i did make the point that muslims are weird and that 'islam' is the 3rd or newest in line of the 3 Judeo based and largest religions in the world today . My point with that is that 'mohamad' was nothing more than a BSer in the arabian desert inventing 'islam' around 650 A.D. and was stealing and copying Jewish and Christian Holy writings , key words and thoughts . And as i say , that copier of Jewish and Christian thoughts and key words named 'mohamad' is the reason that similarities are seen in the Jewish , Christian and 'muslim' religions Slade .

So, basically 99% of the World's problems were influenced by a little rabble of wandering Jews.

Israel is now threatening WW3, of Abrahamic (Jewish faiths) of Judaism vs Islam.

Abrahamic faiths killed, killed, killed, and slaved, slaved, slaved

Marxists killed, killed, killed, and slaved, slaved slaved.

Fascists killed, killed, killed, and slaved, slaved, slaved.

Abrahamic = Jewish, Marx = Jewish, Mussolini the founding father of Fascism = Marxist.

So, that leaves who, and what?

Imperial Japan genocides, and wars? Jewish Banker Jacob Schiff financed them.

Mongol hordes? Much of that horde was Muslim.

 

[grainbely]

Trump’s Pyrrhic Victory: the US Opts for a Path That Can Only Lead to War

Brilliant article and 100% right.

Lol, you stupid fuckers said he was going to start a war with North Korea. What happened to that? You idiots should shut up, you’ve never been right about anything.

Trump got played there. North Korea is going to walk away with full pockets. What does the US get besides yet another instance of being outflanked on the international scale. It's good that there isn't war. It's good that some prisoners are coming back. It's good that at this time we aren't losing in that controversy. But I'm still waiting for deal 1 to be made and I highly doubt it will include the unstable low integrity trump. I read that China, South Korea, and Japan are pushing forward as a coalition to deal with North Korea. I gotta say they are smart to not include the US at this time.

Why does the US need to get anything? The world got peace. Trump saved the world.

Trump saved the world? Shoot you better get your wives and daughters meat sheathes out for trump the twitpaler. World peace is great, dog. We'll have to ask the military industrial colonialists why our economy and international presence needs to be so intimate with war.

You need this:
View attachment 193009

Dude. I'm not helping you apply that to your man psy.

 

[iceberg]

You're making a great deal of simplistic assumptions and projections, which is what partisans do regularly for political advantage. On both ends.

Maybe you don't see that. Who knows.
.

Afghanistan...invaded 2001.
Iraq, invaded in 1990 and again in 2003
Panama invaded in 1989
Syria
Sudan
Somolia
Lybia

All since 1990. All had one thing in common; no nukes.

North Korea has a nuke. Nobody has invaded.

There are no assumptions being made. History teaches some of us a lesson. Maybe you don't see that. Who knows?

except no one ever said "nukes" in many of those wars. hell, the reasons get lost with admin to admin.

as for n korea - it was china, not n korea that stopped it. be real.

Said "nukes"...no idea what you mean by that.

and i have no idea what you mean by nukes in all the counties above as not all have been "nuke" issues?

Okay...what do all of these countries have in common:

Afghanistan...invaded 2001.
Iraq, invaded in 1990 and again in 2003
Panama invaded in 1989
Syria
Sudan
Somolia
Lybia

Times up. These are nations the US has invaded in recent memory.

Now, what do they have in common?

Times up. They didn't have a nuke to deter the invasion.

Now look at North Korea....why haven't we invaded them? We had the troops over there, we have theorhetical just cause that they pose a threat to our neighbors and our vital interests. But we didn't. Why?

Times up. They have a nuke.

If you're in the leadership in Iran, you would be crazy to think that an invasion is far fetched.

in order for your theory to work, you'd have to explain china in the mix. they "have" a nuke but have not shown to be functional with it. we've not invaded n korea for a lot of reasons but for you to tunnel vision on nukes is to me short sighted and trying to make your puzzle fit with pieces that don't really go together.

have fun.

 

[candycorn]

Afghanistan...invaded 2001.
Iraq, invaded in 1990 and again in 2003
Panama invaded in 1989
Syria
Sudan
Somolia
Lybia

All since 1990. All had one thing in common; no nukes.

North Korea has a nuke. Nobody has invaded.

There are no assumptions being made. History teaches some of us a lesson. Maybe you don't see that. Who knows?

except no one ever said "nukes" in many of those wars. hell, the reasons get lost with admin to admin.

as for n korea - it was china, not n korea that stopped it. be real.

Said "nukes"...no idea what you mean by that.

and i have no idea what you mean by nukes in all the counties above as not all have been "nuke" issues?

Okay...what do all of these countries have in common:

Afghanistan...invaded 2001.
Iraq, invaded in 1990 and again in 2003
Panama invaded in 1989
Syria
Sudan
Somolia
Lybia

Times up. These are nations the US has invaded in recent memory.

Now, what do they have in common?

Times up. They didn't have a nuke to deter the invasion.

Now look at North Korea....why haven't we invaded them? We had the troops over there, we have theorhetical just cause that they pose a threat to our neighbors and our vital interests. But we didn't. Why?

Times up. They have a nuke.

If you're in the leadership in Iran, you would be crazy to think that an invasion is far fetched.

in order for your theory to work, you'd have to explain china in the mix. they "have" a nuke but have not shown to be functional with it. we've not invaded n korea for a lot of reasons but for you to tunnel vision on nukes is to me short sighted and trying to make your puzzle fit with pieces that don't really go together.

have fun.

Well, it's not a theory....it is a fact that the US has not invaded anyone that has a nuke.
If I'm in the leadership in Iran and the US President has just torn up the agreement, I'd tell the scientist I have working for me to get me a nuke as soon as possible so I don't get added to the list.

As for NK...we went into Iraq because we suspected they had WMDs, right?
We know NK has a nuke program and that they have missiles that can reach the US. It is not a theory that NK has passed the litmus test for invasion using the Iraq standard.

 

[OldLady]

It's sure being seriously considered a broken agreement though, whatever excuses you want to make for Trump's actions.

a non binding one.
If it was so important, and such a good idea, obamas ass should have done it the right way.

Well, if Russia, China, France, Germany, UK, Iran, and the U.N. all thought it was a real agreement and actually did what the agreement said they should do, and if everyone except the U.S. is now treating it as a broken agreement, I don't think the excuses matter. They are only to make Trump look acceptable in doing this.
If it brings Iran around, I'll be glad. It sure doesn't look that way right now. I'm beginning to wonder if the gossip about Israel and S.A. might be true--they just want us on their side in a war with Iran. Iran and Israel gave it a good kickoff last night.

you still don't get it. It's a lost subject for you. when you don't understand what you're talking about, it's tough to have a discussion. just saying. If you can't accept that trump had the authorization to do it, you're beyond objectivity and not worth any further debate. It's obvious you can't accept the fact that trump had the authorization.

You misunderstood me. I am not arguing Trump COULDN'T do this; of course he could. What I am hearing from just about everyone who knows stuff about Iran and the Middle East in general is that he SHOULDN'T have. I don't know how this will end anymore than you do. But right now I don't see Trump proceeding to a well thought out Plan B. I don't think he's got one. Meanwhile, Iran and Israel took the opportunity to lob missiles at each other a couple days ago. Yesterday the Trump administration said that if Israel goes to war with Iran, America will support them. What does that say to you?

except the people who live there - well they love it that trump has done this but you won't hear that in US media on either side really.

i can dig up links or just google and find some of your own. saudis were thrilled about it. other countries were thanking god. while europe russia and china are "not happy" - they don't live there. all the people who live there aside from iran and their friends, are happy about it.

so "should" would seem to be which direction you want to go. do we pretend that iran isn't making a bomb or trying to or do we admit they are and do something about it? why people seem to think iran has zero intentions to create a bomb that will "kill the infidels" is beyond me at times, but i'll keep talking to try and understand.

if the "treaty" had zero way to enforce, we shouldn't have done it. i felt the same way about the global warming "treaty" that had no teeth and all $$$ from the US.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

 

[PredFan]

Like 0bama did? Yeah I guess you could call it that but Trump won’t give them crates of money, he’ll tell them to get in line or get your ass handed to you. They know he’s serious. They will comply. Just like NK did.

NK hasn't complied with anything yet. So, you're for yet another war in the ME?

But they will. You are disgusting no the point. The point is that the left said he was going to start a war. Where’s the war?

Perhaps give it more than a few weeks....

You’d love that, it’s obvious.

No.

We now have a choice, either militarily wrestle the nuke they are going to develop from them or allow them to have it. That is the path we are now on. Last week, we were on a different path.

No, we were always on the same path. That other make believe path was totally a fabrication of the left and their media.

 

[grainbely]

There was never a valid agreement between the United States and Iran.

The agreement was with Obama, and Obama alone.

Wow..wtf do you call lifting the sanctions? This for that. It's a deal. Maybe you should read trumps book. I heard the sequel is coming out after the midterms, "The art of breaking the deal."

You've got to know when to hold them and know when to fold them. The US is not breaking the deal, it's withdrawing from the deal.

It's breaking the deal. Trump said in not so many words that he expected our European allies to follow and already began pressuring. Its not good for trump to be playijg our allies like this. Although, i hope the remaining signatories stay on and it continues because it's actually not a bad agreement. I think Iran's leadership understands they are risking being overthrown if they allow a return to the pre 2015 sanctions.

Since JCPOA is non binding, it is simply leaving the deal. The only way to prevent the return of the sanctions, is for the E3 and Iran to quickly agree to enter good faith negotiations to form new agreements to provide more comprehensive and rigorous control over Iran's nuclear program as well as its missile program, its imperialist adventures and its support of terrorism. When Macron visited the US he said this is what he wanted to do, keep JCPOA but add new agreements to correct its flaws and add new agreements to cover these other items. Now President Trump has given him a powerful new tool with which to try to get Iran to the negotiating table.

The fact that the US leaving leads directly to re-instating the sanctions means it's binding in effect. The E3 on their own is significantly less powerful than the US, Russia, China, which at this point do not appear to be at the renegotiation table. Russia and China have said they won't renegotiate or bring back the sanctions, a critically relevant aspect.

You must have missed trump's speeches where he said his new most powerful sanctions will target allies doing business with Iran, a specific threat to the E3, and he called out German business by name. He also was saying that we won't be threatened with nukes. Does he understand that Iran has not recently instigated anything towards us and is not a threat to us? This leads to a key part of the problem. He's mistakenly putting us in bed with Israel's agenda of Iran's destruction.

Trump needs to understand that he and our country are 1 in many. Doing all this stupid shit to antagonize our allies and adversaries is burning through patience and diplomatic capital. There's little stopping them from simply walking away from us as a former leader.

 

[PredFan]

Lol, you stupid fuckers said he was going to start a war with North Korea. What happened to that? You idiots should shut up, you’ve never been right about anything.

Trump got played there. North Korea is going to walk away with full pockets. What does the US get besides yet another instance of being outflanked on the international scale. It's good that there isn't war. It's good that some prisoners are coming back. It's good that at this time we aren't losing in that controversy. But I'm still waiting for deal 1 to be made and I highly doubt it will include the unstable low integrity trump. I read that China, South Korea, and Japan are pushing forward as a coalition to deal with North Korea. I gotta say they are smart to not include the US at this time.

Why does the US need to get anything? The world got peace. Trump saved the world.

Trump saved the world? Shoot you better get your wives and daughters meat sheathes out for trump the twitpaler. World peace is great, dog. We'll have to ask the military industrial colonialists why our economy and international presence needs to be so intimate with war.

You need this:
View attachment 193009

Dude. I'm not helping you apply that to your man psy.

Learn to read you illiterate moron.

 

[PredFan]

The left has been wrong on everything, they are wrong on this too.

Sit back and watch Trump win again.

The only question is what spin the insane left will put on his victory.

 

[candycorn]

NK hasn't complied with anything yet. So, you're for yet another war in the ME?

But they will. You are disgusting no the point. The point is that the left said he was going to start a war. Where’s the war?

Perhaps give it more than a few weeks....

You’d love that, it’s obvious.

No.

We now have a choice, either militarily wrestle the nuke they are going to develop from them or allow them to have it. That is the path we are now on. Last week, we were on a different path.

No, we were always on the same path. That other make believe path was totally a fabrication of the left and their media.

Sadly, you're mistaken.

 

[PredFan]

But they will. You are disgusting no the point. The point is that the left said he was going to start a war. Where’s the war?

Perhaps give it more than a few weeks....

You’d love that, it’s obvious.

No.

We now have a choice, either militarily wrestle the nuke they are going to develop from them or allow them to have it. That is the path we are now on. Last week, we were on a different path.

No, we were always on the same path. That other make believe path was totally a fabrication of the left and their media.

Sadly, you're mistaken.

I am absolutely correct but of course you will believe whatever you want to. It’s easier than exercising the maturity of admitting you are wrong.

 

[candycorn]

Perhaps give it more than a few weeks....

You’d love that, it’s obvious.

No.

We now have a choice, either militarily wrestle the nuke they are going to develop from them or allow them to have it. That is the path we are now on. Last week, we were on a different path.

No, we were always on the same path. That other make believe path was totally a fabrication of the left and their media.

Sadly, you're mistaken.

I am absolutely correct but of course you will believe whatever you want to. It’s easier than exercising the maturity of admitting you are wrong.

Its not even a question of you being right...clearly you're not even remotely clued in on how far off base you are. It's more a question of how soon we will have to send troops into Iran.

 

[iceberg]

a non binding one.
If it was so important, and such a good idea, obamas ass should have done it the right way.

Well, if Russia, China, France, Germany, UK, Iran, and the U.N. all thought it was a real agreement and actually did what the agreement said they should do, and if everyone except the U.S. is now treating it as a broken agreement, I don't think the excuses matter. They are only to make Trump look acceptable in doing this.
If it brings Iran around, I'll be glad. It sure doesn't look that way right now. I'm beginning to wonder if the gossip about Israel and S.A. might be true--they just want us on their side in a war with Iran. Iran and Israel gave it a good kickoff last night.

you still don't get it. It's a lost subject for you. when you don't understand what you're talking about, it's tough to have a discussion. just saying. If you can't accept that trump had the authorization to do it, you're beyond objectivity and not worth any further debate. It's obvious you can't accept the fact that trump had the authorization.

You misunderstood me. I am not arguing Trump COULDN'T do this; of course he could. What I am hearing from just about everyone who knows stuff about Iran and the Middle East in general is that he SHOULDN'T have. I don't know how this will end anymore than you do. But right now I don't see Trump proceeding to a well thought out Plan B. I don't think he's got one. Meanwhile, Iran and Israel took the opportunity to lob missiles at each other a couple days ago. Yesterday the Trump administration said that if Israel goes to war with Iran, America will support them. What does that say to you?

except the people who live there - well they love it that trump has done this but you won't hear that in US media on either side really.

i can dig up links or just google and find some of your own. saudis were thrilled about it. other countries were thanking god. while europe russia and china are "not happy" - they don't live there. all the people who live there aside from iran and their friends, are happy about it.

so "should" would seem to be which direction you want to go. do we pretend that iran isn't making a bomb or trying to or do we admit they are and do something about it? why people seem to think iran has zero intentions to create a bomb that will "kill the infidels" is beyond me at times, but i'll keep talking to try and understand.

if the "treaty" had zero way to enforce, we shouldn't have done it. i felt the same way about the global warming "treaty" that had no teeth and all $$$ from the US.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

good questions. given that both sides present passionate arguments in their favor, it blurs the truth quite a bit i suppose. i just don't trust iran in the same light i don't trust n korea but n korea at least has come to the table and also never hid their ambitions.

iran has in the past been working to build nukes. that *is* a fact. did this pseudo treaty stopt them? not sure how it could since technically it's non-binding, just a gentleman's agreement and the history of the radical muslim is say whatever you have to say to get to a point where you can hit back and hard.

israel has bombed their nuke facilities before and i'm sure will again. they recently unearthed a TON of info on the iran nuke program by their own spy ring. now we have to ask is israel wrong or lying?

Israel Claims Proof of Secret Iran Plans for Nuclear Weapons

and if it's true then why have *any* agreement in place if we see evidence they're not even thinking about honoring it?

let me know if the article on bloomberg helps why i feel they do in fact are still trying.

Cyberattacks on Iran — Stuxnet and Flame

and this is past history of when a most clever virus was put into play that stalled irans nuclear bomb ambitions for quite some time.

 

[OldLady]

Well, if Russia, China, France, Germany, UK, Iran, and the U.N. all thought it was a real agreement and actually did what the agreement said they should do, and if everyone except the U.S. is now treating it as a broken agreement, I don't think the excuses matter. They are only to make Trump look acceptable in doing this.
If it brings Iran around, I'll be glad. It sure doesn't look that way right now. I'm beginning to wonder if the gossip about Israel and S.A. might be true--they just want us on their side in a war with Iran. Iran and Israel gave it a good kickoff last night.

you still don't get it. It's a lost subject for you. when you don't understand what you're talking about, it's tough to have a discussion. just saying. If you can't accept that trump had the authorization to do it, you're beyond objectivity and not worth any further debate. It's obvious you can't accept the fact that trump had the authorization.

You misunderstood me. I am not arguing Trump COULDN'T do this; of course he could. What I am hearing from just about everyone who knows stuff about Iran and the Middle East in general is that he SHOULDN'T have. I don't know how this will end anymore than you do. But right now I don't see Trump proceeding to a well thought out Plan B. I don't think he's got one. Meanwhile, Iran and Israel took the opportunity to lob missiles at each other a couple days ago. Yesterday the Trump administration said that if Israel goes to war with Iran, America will support them. What does that say to you?

except the people who live there - well they love it that trump has done this but you won't hear that in US media on either side really.

i can dig up links or just google and find some of your own. saudis were thrilled about it. other countries were thanking god. while europe russia and china are "not happy" - they don't live there. all the people who live there aside from iran and their friends, are happy about it.

so "should" would seem to be which direction you want to go. do we pretend that iran isn't making a bomb or trying to or do we admit they are and do something about it? why people seem to think iran has zero intentions to create a bomb that will "kill the infidels" is beyond me at times, but i'll keep talking to try and understand.

if the "treaty" had zero way to enforce, we shouldn't have done it. i felt the same way about the global warming "treaty" that had no teeth and all $$$ from the US.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

good questions. given that both sides present passionate arguments in their favor, it blurs the truth quite a bit i suppose. i just don't trust iran in the same light i don't trust n korea but n korea at least has come to the table and also never hid their ambitions.

iran has in the past been working to build nukes. that *is* a fact. did this pseudo treaty stopt them? not sure how it could since technically it's non-binding, just a gentleman's agreement and the history of the radical muslim is say whatever you have to say to get to a point where you can hit back and hard.

israel has bombed their nuke facilities before and i'm sure will again. they recently unearthed a TON of info on the iran nuke program by their own spy ring. now we have to ask is israel wrong or lying?

Israel Claims Proof of Secret Iran Plans for Nuclear Weapons

and if it's true then why have *any* agreement in place if we see evidence they're not even thinking about honoring it?

let me know if the article on bloomberg helps why i feel they do in fact are still trying.

Cyberattacks on Iran — Stuxnet and Flame

and this is past history of when a most clever virus was put into play that stalled irans nuclear bomb ambitions for quite some time.

No, Iceberg, the Bloomberg article didn't lead me to believe the Iranians are actively building nukes, for the following reasons stated in the article, which I already referred to in my earlier post. Netanyahu "unveiled" information from 1999 to 2003, which is EXACTLY WHY the world got together and came up with the JCPOA to tap the breaks on Iran's activities.

Israel uncovered 55,000 pages of material on a weapons program that operated between 1999 and 2003 code-named Project Amad,
Iran took steps as recently as last year to move its files to a concealed location so it could revive the program down the line...
Even some critics of Iran agreed that Netanyahu repackaged old information.
Netanyahu’s presentation was “nothing new,” Senator Bob Corker, the Republican head of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television. Corker, who has been critical of the agreement, said “the best outcome would be to resolve the problems with the deal..."
After commentators pointed out that the data appeared to only verify that Iran had a nuclear program before the international agreement froze development, the White House quietly updated its statement to reflect that the information obtained by the Israelis simply showed that Iran “had” a clandestine program. Sanders did not return a request for comment about the apparent mistake.
“If I really thought something new was in there, the last thing I’d do is go to television to announce this,” Blanc added. “The whole thing makes me think that it’s being treated as political theater, and maybe that’s all that it is.”
Israel Claims Proof of Secret Iran Plans for Nuclear Weapons

 

[grainbely]

Trump got played there. North Korea is going to walk away with full pockets. What does the US get besides yet another instance of being outflanked on the international scale. It's good that there isn't war. It's good that some prisoners are coming back. It's good that at this time we aren't losing in that controversy. But I'm still waiting for deal 1 to be made and I highly doubt it will include the unstable low integrity trump. I read that China, South Korea, and Japan are pushing forward as a coalition to deal with North Korea. I gotta say they are smart to not include the US at this time.

Why does the US need to get anything? The world got peace. Trump saved the world.

Trump saved the world? Shoot you better get your wives and daughters meat sheathes out for trump the twitpaler. World peace is great, dog. We'll have to ask the military industrial colonialists why our economy and international presence needs to be so intimate with war.

You need this:
View attachment 193009

Dude. I'm not helping you apply that to your man psy.

Learn to read you illiterate moron.

Learn to have an adult conversation. I'm tired of playing daycare with you orally fixated autists.

 

[grainbely]

The left has been wrong on everything, they are wrong on this too.

Sit back and watch Trump win again.

The only question is what spin the insane left will put on his victory.

We're waiting. So far he's managed to tear up deals, huge investments in time and energy, but no one is rushing to him to sign anything. They know he's an unstable non-genious. I bet that trump continues to have zero new deals made through the end of 2018 but manages to tear up at least one more because he can't handle an actual involved diplomatic negotiation.

 

[iceberg]

you still don't get it. It's a lost subject for you. when you don't understand what you're talking about, it's tough to have a discussion. just saying. If you can't accept that trump had the authorization to do it, you're beyond objectivity and not worth any further debate. It's obvious you can't accept the fact that trump had the authorization.

You misunderstood me. I am not arguing Trump COULDN'T do this; of course he could. What I am hearing from just about everyone who knows stuff about Iran and the Middle East in general is that he SHOULDN'T have. I don't know how this will end anymore than you do. But right now I don't see Trump proceeding to a well thought out Plan B. I don't think he's got one. Meanwhile, Iran and Israel took the opportunity to lob missiles at each other a couple days ago. Yesterday the Trump administration said that if Israel goes to war with Iran, America will support them. What does that say to you?

except the people who live there - well they love it that trump has done this but you won't hear that in US media on either side really.

i can dig up links or just google and find some of your own. saudis were thrilled about it. other countries were thanking god. while europe russia and china are "not happy" - they don't live there. all the people who live there aside from iran and their friends, are happy about it.

so "should" would seem to be which direction you want to go. do we pretend that iran isn't making a bomb or trying to or do we admit they are and do something about it? why people seem to think iran has zero intentions to create a bomb that will "kill the infidels" is beyond me at times, but i'll keep talking to try and understand.

if the "treaty" had zero way to enforce, we shouldn't have done it. i felt the same way about the global warming "treaty" that had no teeth and all $$$ from the US.

I truly don't see any evidence that Iran is still building their nuclear weapons. The inspectors can't find it. If Israel knew where every Iranian installation in Syria was, and if the US knew where all the chemical weapons sites in Syria were, do you really think we wouldn't know if Iran was building a nuclear weapon? We know where NoKo was building theirs. Are we that stupid? The stuff Netanyahu said about Iran lying was from over a decade ago, prior to the JCPOA.
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about it, so if you've got a reputable source showing that Iran is in actuality continuing its nuclear weapon program, like with evidence or specifics at least, please link.

good questions. given that both sides present passionate arguments in their favor, it blurs the truth quite a bit i suppose. i just don't trust iran in the same light i don't trust n korea but n korea at least has come to the table and also never hid their ambitions.

iran has in the past been working to build nukes. that *is* a fact. did this pseudo treaty stopt them? not sure how it could since technically it's non-binding, just a gentleman's agreement and the history of the radical muslim is say whatever you have to say to get to a point where you can hit back and hard.

israel has bombed their nuke facilities before and i'm sure will again. they recently unearthed a TON of info on the iran nuke program by their own spy ring. now we have to ask is israel wrong or lying?

Israel Claims Proof of Secret Iran Plans for Nuclear Weapons

and if it's true then why have *any* agreement in place if we see evidence they're not even thinking about honoring it?

let me know if the article on bloomberg helps why i feel they do in fact are still trying.

Cyberattacks on Iran — Stuxnet and Flame

and this is past history of when a most clever virus was put into play that stalled irans nuclear bomb ambitions for quite some time.

No, Iceberg, the Bloomberg article didn't lead me to believe the Iranians are actively building nukes, for the following reasons stated in the article, which I already referred to in my earlier post. Netanyahu "unveiled" information from 1999 to 2003, which is EXACTLY WHY the world got together and came up with the JCPOA to tap the breaks on Iran's activities.

Israel uncovered 55,000 pages of material on a weapons program that operated between 1999 and 2003 code-named Project Amad,
Iran took steps as recently as last year to move its files to a concealed location so it could revive the program down the line...
Even some critics of Iran agreed that Netanyahu repackaged old information.
Netanyahu’s presentation was “nothing new,” Senator Bob Corker, the Republican head of the Foreign Relations Committee, said in an interview on Bloomberg Television. Corker, who has been critical of the agreement, said “the best outcome would be to resolve the problems with the deal..."
After commentators pointed out that the data appeared to only verify that Iran had a nuclear program before the international agreement froze development, the White House quietly updated its statement to reflect that the information obtained by the Israelis simply showed that Iran “had” a clandestine program. Sanders did not return a request for comment about the apparent mistake.
“If I really thought something new was in there, the last thing I’d do is go to television to announce this,” Blanc added. “The whole thing makes me think that it’s being treated as political theater, and maybe that’s all that it is.”
Israel Claims Proof of Secret Iran Plans for Nuclear Weapons

fair enough. i'll keep reading.