Trump's trade war with China

[Bush92]

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

how is a trade war, fair trade?

When you try to stop China from importing products to our nation for free and they put a tariff on our manufactured goods entering their nation.

 

[Bush92]

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

Fair trade is a myth, because fair does not exist. It is something parents tell their kids to make the feel better, but most adults know that life is never fair.

So then you agree with Trump standing up to China fucking us over at every turn? Millions of jobs lost to China because of shitty trade deals. (Not technology)

 

[pknopp]

I sincerely hope this is true. I am pretty damn confident that it is not.

It looks to me that XI is looking to restore China as the premier world power. Limiting US control over international markets and putting China there would basically achieve this. The reason that the US can essentially bully the world into doing what is in the interest of the US is because the planet's economy is tied to us. IF Trump had leveraged the rest of our allies to address China's bad faith trade policies then he may have forced them to the table. What Trump has done instead is try and take them on 1 to 1 and they are responding by shoring up their position in the global economy instead of ours.

I no longer thing that Xi really wants a deal with the US. I think he would rather see us isolated so that China can exert much more influence on the rest of the world.

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

If anyone is moving it's to even lower wage countries. That does us no good but people still cheer for some odd reason.

 

[danielpalos]

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

how is a trade war, fair trade?

When you try to stop China from importing products to our nation for free and they put a tariff on our manufactured goods entering their nation.

care to explain it better or provide a link?

 

[danielpalos]

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

Fair trade is a myth, because fair does not exist. It is something parents tell their kids to make the feel better, but most adults know that life is never fair.

So then you agree with Trump standing up to China fucking us over at every turn? Millions of jobs lost to China because of shitty trade deals. (Not technology)

no. i expected better trade negotiations.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

Fair trade is a myth, because fair does not exist. It is something parents tell their kids to make the feel better, but most adults know that life is never fair.

So then you agree with Trump standing up to China fucking us over at every turn? Millions of jobs lost to China because of shitty trade deals. (Not technology)

We have more than a million open positions than people to fill them, any job that was “lost” has more than been made up.

 

[pknopp]

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Because commerce is about trade not "gun boat diplomacy with our exorbitantly expensive superpower".

Fair trade. It’s a two way street.

Fair trade is a myth, because fair does not exist. It is something parents tell their kids to make the feel better, but most adults know that life is never fair.

So then you agree with Trump standing up to China fucking us over at every turn? Millions of jobs lost to China because of shitty trade deals. (Not technology)

We have more than a million open positions than people to fill them, any job that was “lost” has more than been made up.

Jobs created at Wal-Mart do not equal out manufacturing jobs.

 

[Paulie]

Xi is hoping to get a new president that is more reasonable and willing to negotiate and does not conduct diplomacy via tweets.

I sincerely hope this is true. I am pretty damn confident that it is not.

It looks to me that XI is looking to restore China as the premier world power. Limiting US control over international markets and putting China there would basically achieve this. The reason that the US can essentially bully the world into doing what is in the interest of the US is because the planet's economy is tied to us. IF Trump had leveraged the rest of our allies to address China's bad faith trade policies then he may have forced them to the table. What Trump has done instead is try and take them on 1 to 1 and they are responding by shoring up their position in the global economy instead of ours.

I no longer thing that Xi really wants a deal with the US. I think he would rather see us isolated so that China can exert much more influence on the rest of the world.

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

You are supposed to use our markets as leverage to force them into it. Instead, he tried to use that leverage in mini wars with everyone at once. I cannot fathom how this is so complicated for most here. YOU DO NOT WILLINGLY FIGHT A 2 FRONT WAR. PERIOD. That is the most moronic way to do things possible.

And working so far? In what way is it working at all? We have gained absolutely nothing so far on trade anywhere. NOTHING. If Trump does manage to make real gains here I will absolutely give him credit. The fact that you have to resort to outright bullshit like "it probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians" just highlights the fact that you have nothing to support these actions. Who are my 'favorite' politicians? Who is it that I would have been falling over to support LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE WITH A FAILED TRADE POLICY? Look in a mirror lately?

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

 

[pknopp]

I sincerely hope this is true. I am pretty damn confident that it is not.

It looks to me that XI is looking to restore China as the premier world power. Limiting US control over international markets and putting China there would basically achieve this. The reason that the US can essentially bully the world into doing what is in the interest of the US is because the planet's economy is tied to us. IF Trump had leveraged the rest of our allies to address China's bad faith trade policies then he may have forced them to the table. What Trump has done instead is try and take them on 1 to 1 and they are responding by shoring up their position in the global economy instead of ours.

I no longer thing that Xi really wants a deal with the US. I think he would rather see us isolated so that China can exert much more influence on the rest of the world.

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

You are supposed to use our markets as leverage to force them into it. Instead, he tried to use that leverage in mini wars with everyone at once. I cannot fathom how this is so complicated for most here. YOU DO NOT WILLINGLY FIGHT A 2 FRONT WAR. PERIOD. That is the most moronic way to do things possible.

And working so far? In what way is it working at all? We have gained absolutely nothing so far on trade anywhere. NOTHING. If Trump does manage to make real gains here I will absolutely give him credit. The fact that you have to resort to outright bullshit like "it probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians" just highlights the fact that you have nothing to support these actions. Who are my 'favorite' politicians? Who is it that I would have been falling over to support LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE WITH A FAILED TRADE POLICY? Look in a mirror lately?

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

So negotiate. Sit down and get it done. Don't put farmers out of business because you can't get it done.

 

[Paulie]

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Everything in the US is slowing, job growth, manufacturing orders, GDP growth and more.

You say that the market traded "sideways" for a while, well that while is now up to almost 600 days since the start of the trade war, with no real end in sight. That is a good, long while.

Ironically we had a nice jump on Thursday thanks to China saying they want to negotiate more, a stance they have never walked away from. But it is almost as if China is playing with our stock market, they do things to make it go up while they let Trump do things that drive it down.

We do not have a good track record for Trump creating deals that have been worth much. From all reports the trade deal worked out with Japan is basically the exact same thing that was in the TPP, just two years later. The USMCA is nothing more than a couple minor tweaks to NAFTA. If the deal he gets from China is like these two, then there is no way it was worth the pain.

Also, as the tariffs get higher, the US consumer gets hurt more. And none of this addresses the damage done to US Ag industry, which may have lost a major market, permanently.

Well just have to see. I don’t see how it could end up any worse for us than it already was. Someone is doing something finally and I’m not going to bitch about it before I see the results. I’d have been just as interested to see it play out if Obama had done it. I know the Chinese aren’t dumb people and they’re not going to be taken advantage of but they’re also not SO SMART that we can’t at least get a fair deal with them. Give it a chance. Right now they don’t have to give all the way in because trump is only guaranteed the next year and a half. But that’s the way it would work if ANYONE did this. They would always know that the president still had to get re-elected to a second term and could wait it out. Someday someone was going to have to do this.

 

[Paulie]

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

You are supposed to use our markets as leverage to force them into it. Instead, he tried to use that leverage in mini wars with everyone at once. I cannot fathom how this is so complicated for most here. YOU DO NOT WILLINGLY FIGHT A 2 FRONT WAR. PERIOD. That is the most moronic way to do things possible.

And working so far? In what way is it working at all? We have gained absolutely nothing so far on trade anywhere. NOTHING. If Trump does manage to make real gains here I will absolutely give him credit. The fact that you have to resort to outright bullshit like "it probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians" just highlights the fact that you have nothing to support these actions. Who are my 'favorite' politicians? Who is it that I would have been falling over to support LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE WITH A FAILED TRADE POLICY? Look in a mirror lately?

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

So negotiate. Sit down and get it done. Don't put farmers out of business because you can't get it done.

We have the best agriculture in the world. Nobody grows better beef than we do. There’s not a single developed nation out there that wouldn’t miss our food. You don’t win a poker game by asking the players to treat you fairly. You have to be willing to take a risk with the cards you’re holding.

 

[pknopp]

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.
Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

You are supposed to use our markets as leverage to force them into it. Instead, he tried to use that leverage in mini wars with everyone at once. I cannot fathom how this is so complicated for most here. YOU DO NOT WILLINGLY FIGHT A 2 FRONT WAR. PERIOD. That is the most moronic way to do things possible.

And working so far? In what way is it working at all? We have gained absolutely nothing so far on trade anywhere. NOTHING. If Trump does manage to make real gains here I will absolutely give him credit. The fact that you have to resort to outright bullshit like "it probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians" just highlights the fact that you have nothing to support these actions. Who are my 'favorite' politicians? Who is it that I would have been falling over to support LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE WITH A FAILED TRADE POLICY? Look in a mirror lately?

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

So negotiate. Sit down and get it done. Don't put farmers out of business because you can't get it done.

We have the best agriculture in the world. Nobody grows better beef than we do. There’s not a single developed nation out there that wouldn’t miss our food. You don’t win a poker game by asking the players to treat you fairly. You have to be willing to take a risk with the cards you’re holding.

Cows can live just fine in China.

 

[charwin95]

I have got good news, and I have got bad news. The good news is the Dow is up 373 points. We finally have surpassed where we were in January 2018.

The bad news is, the reason for the leap forward is that Chinese officials agreed to resume talks. Meaning, thanks to Trump, Wall Street is dependent upon what China does.

Thank you, Mr. President.

In fact 2/3 of Americans are saying, Thank you Mr. President for standing up to China.

More than two-thirds of American voters want the U.S. to confront Beijing over its trade policies despite believing that they are suffering more from tariffs than China, a Harvard CAPS/Harris Poll survey released exclusively to The Hill found.

The poll showed 63 percent of registered voters said that tariffs imposed on Chinese products ultimately hurt the U.S. more than China, while 74 percent said that American consumers are shouldering most of the burden of those tariffs.

But 67 percent said that it is necessary to confront China over its trade practices, which President Trump and his allies have deemed unfair to the U.S.

Poll: Voters want US to confront China over trade

Hopefully, the Democrats will continue banging away on this issue right through the election.

I read your link. But I totally disagree.

If you ask ordinary citizens out there. There are millions and millions of Americans that don’t understand this trade wars.
In this site alone. Trumpets don’t understand the negative impact of Trade wars despite with input from anti trade wars. Out there they only listen with Trump bullshit. Nothing else.

Aside from higher prices there will be loss of jobs and businesses.

Just about the entire American businesses disagree with Trump. Are you telling me they are wrong? I have not seen a single company (except steel industry) support Trump trade wars.





The trade war has already cost electronics companies $10 billion and it gets worse on Sept. 1

'Whipsaw' of US-China trade war will force small businesses to close, bike start-up CEO says

Business Groups Warn of Peril as Trump’s Trade War Spirals

You are correct that many people don't understand the trade war between the US and China, clearly you among them, but the poll shows that many people do, and they are willing to go through some slight inconveniences in order to force China to give up defending its domestic industries if it wants to continue to enjoy access to the US.

It’s very funny when Trump followers like you try to make justifications with Trump lies.

Just about ALL American businesses with ALL categories trashing Trump trade wars.

Did you read my links coming from businesses or you just stared at it?

 

[FA_Q2]

I sincerely hope this is true. I am pretty damn confident that it is not.

It looks to me that XI is looking to restore China as the premier world power. Limiting US control over international markets and putting China there would basically achieve this. The reason that the US can essentially bully the world into doing what is in the interest of the US is because the planet's economy is tied to us. IF Trump had leveraged the rest of our allies to address China's bad faith trade policies then he may have forced them to the table. What Trump has done instead is try and take them on 1 to 1 and they are responding by shoring up their position in the global economy instead of ours.

I no longer thing that Xi really wants a deal with the US. I think he would rather see us isolated so that China can exert much more influence on the rest of the world.

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

You are supposed to use our markets as leverage to force them into it. Instead, he tried to use that leverage in mini wars with everyone at once. I cannot fathom how this is so complicated for most here. YOU DO NOT WILLINGLY FIGHT A 2 FRONT WAR. PERIOD. That is the most moronic way to do things possible.

And working so far? In what way is it working at all? We have gained absolutely nothing so far on trade anywhere. NOTHING. If Trump does manage to make real gains here I will absolutely give him credit. The fact that you have to resort to outright bullshit like "it probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians" just highlights the fact that you have nothing to support these actions. Who are my 'favorite' politicians? Who is it that I would have been falling over to support LIKE YOU ARE DOING HERE WITH A FAILED TRADE POLICY? Look in a mirror lately?

You’re not at least interested in the fact that they’re meeting next month to discuss this? You think trade deals happen at the snap of a finger? Jesus Christ

I am interested in outcomes. So far, the evidence shows that Trump ends up in the end exactly where he started.

When he manages to actually make a deal that markedly improves over the last one then he can get some credit.

 

[Brain357]

I sincerely hope this is true. I am pretty damn confident that it is not.

It looks to me that XI is looking to restore China as the premier world power. Limiting US control over international markets and putting China there would basically achieve this. The reason that the US can essentially bully the world into doing what is in the interest of the US is because the planet's economy is tied to us. IF Trump had leveraged the rest of our allies to address China's bad faith trade policies then he may have forced them to the table. What Trump has done instead is try and take them on 1 to 1 and they are responding by shoring up their position in the global economy instead of ours.

I no longer thing that Xi really wants a deal with the US. I think he would rather see us isolated so that China can exert much more influence on the rest of the world.

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Yes he is damaging China, just as he is damaging our economy. Nobody wins. Hurting China does not help us. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. It is not Chinas fault if we don't have good jobs.

 

[Paulie]

That is long term. Short term, he wants to keep the massive trade surplus.

Based on?

Why would he want to support action for the short term that is 100 percent counter to his long term goal? That is nonsensical.

And our "allies" were never going to back US. They are too used to the US being the world's bitch on trade.

Going "back?" Who said anything about going back. The US has ENORMOUS economic influence over most of the word, over virtually all of the productive world. Rather than beat China over the head with every trading partner we have, Trump goes on a bunch of trade battles with out allies at the same time as taking on China. That is asinine. He should deal with China from the greatest position of power. A position that used all the European markets as well. Instead, we are dealing with China from a weaker position than we could be in.

For someone that is supposedly sup[posed to be good at making a deal, this is the most basic rule in negotiating.

What the fuck are you supposed to do when none of them have any balls to do it? No one has had any balls to take these people on in over 20 years. Not to mention, im sure Europe’s leaders don’t get to make that decision unilaterally because of the fucking EU. It’s amazing to me that even in the face of what trump is trying to do, which seems to be working so far, you still can’t be happy. It probably infuriates you that it wasn’t one of your favorite politicians that did it instead.

In what way does what Trump is doing seem to be working?

Manufacturers are moving their operations out of China and its hurting china’s economy during a time when they’re already in a slowing economy and have already reduced their currency about as much as they can. Now they’re lowering their reserve requirement so their banks can lend out more money. Their only answer is to inflate. We have a strong economy right now that gives us leeway to weather the little downsides to tariffs in the near term and china’s facing the reality that they don’t get to just have it their way anymore and that’s why they’re meeting next month to discuss a trade deal. I don’t understand why you or anyone else is fighting this. America is finally standing up to China and the same people who we all know would’ve been gushing over this move if Obama had done it are furious about it instead. We just had Powell say yesterday that he doesn’t see a recession in the forecast, while less jobs were added then expected there were other numbers in that report that gave a rosier outlook on the economic future, and the markets are still responding favorably to all of it. The market traded sideways for a while because of uncertainty over a trade policy we haven’t see our government utilize in decades. But as they get more of a taste of the way it’s going to work out we’ve seen that the tensions have eased for investors and they’re starting to buy back in again. We’ve had tariffs on the table for over a year now and the economy is still moving and growing. This is good for EVERYONE the same way it would’ve been good for everyone if Obama had done it instead. I only wish he would’ve so wed be further along with this process already and maybe already had a better trade deal. I don’t care WHO does this, it needed to be done.

Yes he is damaging China, just as he is damaging our economy. Nobody wins. Hurting China does not help us. We have lots of wealth and really low unemployment. It is not Chinas fault if we don't have good jobs.

I miss the days when the left blamed China for all the lost jobs. It would be nice to have you guys back in this fight but I realize it’s not the president doing it that you want it to be and that kills you. We’ll do it without you.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I miss the days when the left blamed China for all the lost jobs. It would be nice to have you guys back in this fight but I realize it’s not the president doing it that you want it to be and that kills you. We’ll do it without you.

Why would you blame China? Did they force any company to move their operations to China? American companies made business decisions that were best for their companies, as they should.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

We have the best agriculture in the world. Nobody grows better beef than we do. There’s not a single developed nation out there that wouldn’t miss our food. You don’t win a poker game by asking the players to treat you fairly. You have to be willing to take a risk with the cards you’re holding.

This is true, we do agriculture better than anybody, nobody can match the yields we get from most crops. But that is not to say we could not be replaced in our bigger markets, which would kills parts of our agriculture industry. If South American counties can up their production and permanently replace our grain farmers as the suppliers to China and other markets, our agriculture sector is fucked.

In my opinion, one of the worst outcomes of this trade war is for countries to realize they do not need us as much as they thought they did and as much as we think they do.

 

[Paulie]

I miss the days when the left blamed China for all the lost jobs. It would be nice to have you guys back in this fight but I realize it’s not the president doing it that you want it to be and that kills you. We’ll do it without you.

Why would you blame China? Did they force any company to move their operations to China? American companies made business decisions that were best for their companies, as they should.

You and I know this is the case but sadly the extremes of the spectrum don’t. The left is railing against tariffs right now even though it’s a tax on big business. They don’t even know what they’re supposed to hate and support anymore. Business made the decision to move to China because it was the most profitable place to do business even at the expense of us workers and now someone is trying to do something about that and the left can’t stand it. I need you to admit to me that you know the left would be all over this if it was one of theirs doing it. I know you know that but I feel like you don’t want to say it.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Well just have to see. I don’t see how it could end up any worse for us than it already was.

It could not be worse than a UE under 4%?

It could not be worse than 122 months straight of economic expansion, the longest in our countries history?

It could not be worse than more than 110 straight months of positive job growth, the longest such streak in our nations history?

It could not be worse than having more than a million open jobs than people to fill them?

I think you vastly over estimate how bad things were.