CDZ Two options...the European model of self defense, and the American model of Self defensse.

[flacaltenn]

How do you define a weapon of war?

Let's not haggle here. An AR-15 is NOT a weapon of war. The idiot murderer in Las Vegas burned up 2 or 3 barrels in a span of 10 minutes. That's why he had several on tripods with the "bump stock" gimmick. Where's the Final Report on that BTW? Must have been too inconvenient for public consumption.

A military weapon (rifle to be exact) is designed to sustain automatic fire rates.

And why does this matter? The only automatic rifles are military grade. Everything else (modified or not) is a trophy toy.

You sure are worried about rate of fire aren't ya? I've seen pro shooters that can cork off 10 rounds in about 1.6 seconds with a wild west type LEVER ACTION rifle. This whole distinction about "rate of fire" is a snowflake construct.

 

[BULLDOG]

Someone would have to challenge it if it became law.

For example Illinois firearm registration card has been around for over 40 years that I know of and no one challenged it till recently .

In May, a White County judge ruled the state's FOID card system was unconstitutional and reduced residents' Second Amendment rights to bear arms to a “facade.” Illinois Attorney General Kwame Raoul appealed the decision to the Illinois Supreme Court.Nov 8, 2021
Home › article
Haine says FOID Act is unconstitutional - Alton Telegraph

Yet gun registration is still used on a large scale..

 

[BULLDOG]

Let's not haggle here. An AR-15 is NOT a weapon of war. The idiot murderer in Las Vegas burned up 2 or 3 barrels in a span of 10 minutes. That's why he had several on tripods with the "bump stock" gimmick. Where's the Final Report on that BTW? Must have been too inconvenient for public consumption.

A military weapon (rifle to be exact) is designed to sustain automatic fire rates.

And why does this matter? The only automatic rifles are military grade. Everything else (modified or not) is a trophy toy.

You sure are worried about rate of fire aren't ya? I've seen pro shooters that can cork off 10 rounds in about 1.6 seconds with a wild west type LEVER ACTION rifle. This whole distinction about "rate of fire" is a snowflake construct.

So that is your definition of a military weapon? Not an AR15? I'm holding a coffee cup that is not an AR15. Is it a military weapon too?

 

[justoffal]

Except their model doesn't work. Yes, their murder rates are far less, but they have much higher rates of violent crime than we do due to a largely defenseless population, so it's not working. You're trading one extreme for another. We do need to address our root causes of gun violence, but their model is not the answer either.

Furthermore, the fact you make hyperbolic Dirty Harry references shows you're not even a serious person to have a rational discussion with so your opinion is largely irrelevant.

It's also apples and oranges since we have far more dense population centers.

 

[Blues Man]

Well that's pretty dumb. Nothing near what I wrote.

Since you never answered my question I had to infer your answer.

Everything has a cost right? WHat you don;t understand is that you don't have to pay the government to exercise your right to buy anything.

So once again you use a very poor analogy.

So you either think that people should have to pay the government for the ability to exercise their protected and legal rights or you don't.

So if you think it's perfectly acceptable for a person to have to pay hundreds of dollars or more to exercise their right to own a firearm why not apply that same cost to every other right?

 

[Blues Man]

So that is your definition of a military weapon? Not an AR15? I'm holding a coffee cup that is not an AR15. Is it a military weapon too?

An AR 15 is a commonplace semiautomatic rifle just like any other semiautomatic rifle. That is all it is . That is all it will ever be

 

[Wyatt earp]

Yet gun registration is still used on a large scale..

No one challenged it yet

 

[BULLDOG]

Since you never answered my question I had to infer your answer.

Everything has a cost right? WHat you don;t understand is that you don't have to pay the government to exercise your right to buy anything.

So once again you use a very poor analogy.

So you either think that people should have to pay the government for the ability to exercise their protected and legal rights or you don't.

So if you think it's perfectly acceptable for a person to have to pay hundreds of dollars or more to exercise their right to own a firearm why not apply that same cost to every other right?

You already pay the government a percentage of everything you buy. It's called sales tax.

 

[BULLDOG]

An AR 15 is a commonplace semiautomatic rifle just like any other semiautomatic rifle. That is all it is . That is all it will ever be

That may be true, but when I asked for a definition of a military weapon, the only answer I got was "not an AR 15". There are lots of things that are not an AR 15. My coffee cup is not an AR 15. Is it a military weapon?

 

[BULLDOG]

No one challenged it yet

Get back with me when that happens.

 

[Blues Man]

You already pay the government a percentage of everything you buy. It's called sales tax.

What does that have to do with paying to exercise a guaranteed right?

not a single fucking thing

 

[Blues Man]

That may be true, but when I asked for a definition of a military weapon, the only answer I got was "not an AR 15". There are lots of things that are not an AR 15. My coffee cup is not an AR 15. Is it a military weapon?

That question has been beaten to death.

A standard issue military rifle if capable of single shot semiautomatic, select or burst fire semiautomatic and fully automatic firing.

It is the ability to do all three that defines a military rifle

Any other rifle that looks like a military rifle but does not have the same capabilities is not a military rifle.

This ain;t rocket science

 

[BULLDOG]

What does that have to do with paying to exercise a guaranteed right?

not a single fucking thing

I have a constitutional right to buy food, clothing, housing, or almost anything else I want. Your question was about paying the government to exercize your rights, wasn't it?

 

[Blues Man]

I have a constitutional right to buy food, clothing, housing, or almost anything else I want. Your question was about paying the government to exercize your rights, wasn't it?

Do you have to get a permit and pay hundreds of dollars BEFORE you can exercise that right?

Do you have to get a permit BEFORE you can exercise your 4th and 5th amendment rights?

Do you have to pay for a permit BEFORE you can exercise your right to vote?

If you think it's perfectly fine to charge people hundreds of dollars BEFORE they can exercise their second amendment rights then why not charge the same amount BEFORE they can exercise ANY right?

 

[BULLDOG]

That question has been beaten to death.

A standard issue military rifle if capable of single shot semiautomatic, select or burst fire semiautomatic and fully automatic firing.

It is the ability to do all three that defines a military rifle

Any other rifle that looks like a military rifle but does not have the same capabilities is not a military rifle.

This ain;t rocket science

The military issues lots of military weapons that aren't fully automatic capable, but they are still military weapons. Nobody can argue that the M24 SWS is not a military rifle, but it is bolt action.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Get back with me when that happens.

Good God you really don't know how it works do you?

 

[BULLDOG]

Do you have to get a permit and pay hundreds of dollars BEFORE you can exercise that right?

Do you have to get a permit BEFORE you can exercise your 4th and 5th amendment rights?

Do you have to pay for a permit BEFORE you can exercise your right to vote?

If you think it's perfectly fine to charge people hundreds of dollars BEFORE they can exercise their second amendment rights then why not charge the same amount BEFORE they can exercise ANY right?

There are fees for some things, and not for others. I have a constitutional right to buy a boat, but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay the government a percentage of the sale. Your "it's a right" claim doesn't seem to hold up in all cases, does it?

 

[Blues Man]

The military issues lots of military weapons that aren't fully automatic capable, but they are still military weapons. Nobody can argue that the M24 SWS is not a military rifle, but it is bolt action.

So what?

Are you going to call every Remington shotgun a "military" weapon?

Are you going to call every 1911, or 9mm handgun a military weapon?

Shit MPs carry batons maybe we should classify ALL batons as military weapons.

All soldiers carry a large blade of some kind so maybe we should classify all knives a military weapons.

This is you being disingenuous.

If we are talking about firearms that have been available on the civilian market for decades or even a century then any semiautomatic rifle is a civilian rifle regardless of caliber or cosmetics.

 

[Wyatt earp]

There are fees for some things, and not for others. I have a constitutional right to buy a boat, but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay the government a percentage of the sale. Your "it's a right" claim doesn't seem to hold up in all cases, does it?

So your saying some constitutional rights are greater then others?

And you don't have a constitutional right to buy a boat

 

[Blues Man]

There are fees for some things, and not for others. I have a constitutional right to buy a boat, but that doesn't mean I don't have to pay the government a percentage of the sale. Your "it's a right" claim doesn't seem to hold up in all cases, does it?

A sales tax is not a condition that has to be paid BEFORE you exercise your right to buy a boat.

You are either being intentionally obtuse or you don't understand the concept that being forced to pay as a prerequisite of exercising a right is unconstitutional.

Which is it.