Two Proud Gun Nuts Second-Amendment Each Other To Death In Road Rage Incident

[Brain357]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

Step one. The NRA manipulates a bunch of half-wits into believing a big bad black liberal is going to take their guns away from them.
Step two. The half-wits stock up on guns, ammo, and anything that will inflict bodily harm.
Step three. The "jackbooted thugs" never show up
Step four. So these half-wits now have the same deficit of brain cells and are armed to the teeth.
Step five. Any breech of redneck etiquette is a reason to get upset and since they have all of these guns and bullets laying around; the results are easy to predict.

In the United States gun are used on average 2 million times a year to stop or prevent violent criminal attack.

criminals break the law and use guns to commit murder in 2013...8,454 times....mainly gang members in small, multi block areas of democrat controlled inner cities...

In 2013 there were 505 accidental gun deaths.......

Guns are the most effective means to stop violent attack, and in particular rape......

But no, they would rather see all of those people be victims.........

They like the British model.....simply submit to your violent attacker.......

You mean 2 million times in fantasy land.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Europeans assume that is pretty typical in American culture. Sadly, it kinda is.

We assume Europeans are prone to periodic pogroms and lemming like wars of attrition just for shits and giggles.

Sadly, it kinda true.

Remember, you are talking to lefties, they won't know what a pogrom is......

What he means is that in Europe, every once in a while they murder 12 million people for giggles.........just ship them off to death camps.....

They do that everywhere. It's human nature.

 

[2aguy]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun%20Ownership%20Stops%20Rape/

In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

 

[Wake]

No one's going to read walls of text.

It just doesn't work.

Hell, I support the 2nd, but I just skimmed over that great Wall of China you just posted.

 

[Brain357]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Notice how old they all are, crime is down 30% since the newest ones. Notice how varied the results are, 700k to 3.6 million? That alone proves how inaccurate they are. If they were accurate they would arrive at a similar number. The ncvs did a much larger survey and arrived at 108k. That isn't included by 2a cause the result is too small.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I have to admit that this particular incident does, in fact, dovetail into my belief's. As a result of these two guys carrying guns, that is two less crazy's on the street that we need to concern ourself with.

 

[Penelope]

2agay, apparently you have done lots of homework on if guns are a safety net for innocent victims, and I'm sure many times they are. Thanks for posting, I may read some of your links, but then again, I know most women are raped by someone they know, and also unless gang related, most murders are done by someone the victim knows. The ones done by nut cases like above are becoming more common, and times are changing that is for sure. I guess I'll stick with the wasp spray for now.

 

[Brain357]

2agay, apparently you have done lots of homework on if guns are a safety net for innocent victims, and I'm sure many times they are. Thanks for posting, I may read some of your links, but then again, I know most women are raped by someone they know, and also unless gang related, most murders are done by someone the victim knows. The ones done by nut cases like above are becoming more common, and times are changing that is for sure. I guess I'll stick with the wasp spray for now.

Most rapes aren't defendable with a gun. Here is something actually effective and you won't shoot yourself.
Rape prevention training greatly lowers risk of sex assault study Globalnews.ca

 

[Vandalshandle]

2agay, apparently you have done lots of homework on if guns are a safety net for innocent victims, and I'm sure many times they are. Thanks for posting, I may read some of your links, but then again, I know most women are raped by someone they know, and also unless gang related, most murders are done by someone the victim knows. The ones done by nut cases like above are becoming more common, and times are changing that is for sure. I guess I'll stick with the wasp spray for now.

2agay picked up some figures several years ago from Prison Planet or somewhere and not even common sense can crack his unshakeable belief in them.

 

[guno]

More guns more guns more guns!!

Two men are dead in Ionia, Michigan after a road rage incident escalated into a shootout Wednesday. Police say that James Pullum, 43, and Robert Taylor, 56 apparently argued after Taylor became enraged over something that occurred while driving though the details are not clear as to exactly what precipitated the incident.

Both men had concealed carry permits and were legally carrying their weapons.

Two Proud Gun Nuts Second-Amendment Each Other To Death In Road Rage Incident Americans Against the Tea Party

Hey, the vile racist keeps posting...how are your buddies in the klan...?

You say something statue bowing old mackerel snapper

 

[whitehall]

Never let a tragedy go to waste. No mention of that Memphis Police Officer who was murdered by drug dealers though.

 

[PredFan]

Darwinism in action. You left wing morons ought to be happy. Two less gun owners, and they took each other out without killing any left wing idiots.

I don't see what your complaint is.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Darwinism in action. You left wing morons ought to be happy. Two less gun owners, and they took each other out without killing any left wing idiots.

I don't see what your complaint is.

We don't have one, we're just enjoying their mutual protection...

 

[SillyWabbit]

More guns more guns more guns!!

Two men are dead in Ionia, Michigan after a road rage incident escalated into a shootout Wednesday. Police say that James Pullum, 43, and Robert Taylor, 56 apparently argued after Taylor became enraged over something that occurred while driving though the details are not clear as to exactly what precipitated the incident.

Both men had concealed carry permits and were legally carrying their weapons.

Two Proud Gun Nuts Second-Amendment Each Other To Death In Road Rage Incident Americans Against the Tea Party

What, no video? Me disappoint.

 

[SillyWabbit]

Europeans assume that is pretty typical in American culture. Sadly, it kinda is.

We ought to create a pay-per-view channel chock full of violence on video just for our International customers. We could even have a "Challenge" version with live ass kicking from around the country with various prizes and an "Ultimate Champion". It wouldn't be like professional boxing or MMA, it would be regular folks in street level scenarios beating the shit out of each other. It wouldn't have to be death sport per se*, just rilly good ol' Mercan ass whoopin.

*but it wouldn't hurt

 

[Penelope]

I thought that story sounded familiar being from MI, and it was from 2013, doesn't matter, but I kept thinking again this happened but its the same story.

 

[2aguy]

Sounds like the wild wild west, its a draw. Road rage is becoming rampant it seems. One never knows when a wacko is going to draw a gun on you. Really I don't know why anyone but a crook would carry a gun, and then it should be illegal. I am anti guns.

In answer to your question...people carry guns for self defense...here is why....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use A Methodological Experiment - Springer




Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

*********************************
And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

***********************

http://www.hoboes.com/pub/Firearms/Data/Crime/Florida/Gun Ownership Stops Rape/
In Orlando, Florida, in 1966 a series of brutal rapes swept the
community. Citizens reacted to the tripling in the rate of rape
over the previous year by buying handguns for self-defense; 200-300
firearms were being purchased each week from dealers, and an unknown
number more from private parties. The newspaper there, the _Orlando
Sentinel Star_, had an anti-gun editorial stance and tried to pressure
the local police chief and city government to stop the flow of arms.
When that tactic failed, the paper decided that in the interest of
public safety, they would sponsor a gun-training seminar in conjunction
with the local police. Plans were made for a one-day training course at
a local city park.

Plans were made for an expected 400-500 women.

However,more than 2500 women arrived, and brought with them every conceivable
kind of firearm.

They had to park many blocks away, and the weapons
were carried in in purses, paper bags, boxes, briefcases, holsters,
and womens' hands. One police officer present said he'd never been so
scared in his life. [It must have been quite a sight! ]
Swamped, the organizers hastily dismissed the women with promises for
a more thorough course with scheduled appointments. The course offered
was for three classes/week, and within 6 months, the Orlando police had
trained more than 6000 women in basic pistol marksmanship and the law
of self-defense.
The results?
In 1966 there were 36 rapes in Orlando, triple the 1965 rate. In 1967,
there were 4.
Before the training, rape rates had been increasing in
Orlando as nationwide.
5 years after the training, rape was still
below pre-training levels in Orlando, but up 308% in the surrounding
areas, 96% for Florida overall, and 64% nationally.
Also in 1967, violent assault and burglary decreased by 25% in Orlando,
in addition to the rape reductions.
In 1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD FIRED HER WEAPON in self-defense. In
1967, NOT A SINGLE WOMAN HAD TURNED HER GUN ON HER HUSBAND OR BOYFRIEND.
(No data are available for later years.)
The reason the program worked so spectacularly well is that it was
widely known that Orlando women had the means and training to defend
themselves from attackers. Rapists, being (somewhat) human, they are
learning engines; they took their business elsewhere--to the detriment
of the defenseless in those other locations.
Department of Justice victim studies show that overall, when rape is
attempted, the completion rate is 36%. But when a woman defends herself
with a gun, the completion rate drops to 3%.

And for 19.95 you can read Southwick's 2000 study on guns that talk about rape.....

Self-defense with guns The consequences

This one gives the actual percentages of how rapes are stopped...guns come out on top...

http://medind.nic.in/jal/t07/i4/jalt07i4p99.pdf

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf

Notice how old they all are, crime is down 30% since the newest ones. Notice how varied the results are, 700k to 3.6 million? That alone proves how inaccurate they are. If they were accurate they would arrive at a similar number. The ncvs did a much larger survey and arrived at 108k. That isn't included by 2a cause the result is too small.

They are actual studies on guns used for self defense, then you have the studies on raper prevention that specifically show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....studies done by actual researchers over 40 years...and not one of them puts the number at less than 764,000 times a year where guns are used to stop or prevent violent criminals...

And what does the daily kos say about the National Crime Victimization survey, which is not a study on gun self defense...

The Daily Kos on why the NCVS is wrong...
Defensive Gun Use Part III - The National Crime Victimization Study

The disadvantages of this study design are:
1) the study is not specifically designed to measure DGUs;

2) the study does not track every type of crime;

3) the study does not ask every interviewee about episodes of DGU;

4) interviewees are not specifically asked about defending themselves with a gun;

5) follow-up studies have demonstrated that the incidence of assault (and especially assaults by relatives and non-strangers) in the NCVS is under-reported, and if crime is under-reported then so too will DGUs be under-reported;

6) respondents’ anonymity is not preserved, and some interviewees may therefore feel wary or unwilling to discuss gun use with federal government employees.

 

[2aguy]

2agay, apparently you have done lots of homework on if guns are a safety net for innocent victims, and I'm sure many times they are. Thanks for posting, I may read some of your links, but then again, I know most women are raped by someone they know, and also unless gang related, most murders are done by someone the victim knows. The ones done by nut cases like above are becoming more common, and times are changing that is for sure. I guess I'll stick with the wasp spray for now.

2agay picked up some figures several years ago from Prison Planet or somewhere and not even common sense can crack his unshakeable belief in them.

I know you are a stupid person....and the fact that these are actual studies done by economists and criminologists, experts in their field of study, and many of them actually anti gun researchers.....so their validity is beyond you....however, they are actual studies, done by actual researchers, different researchers by both government and private groups, over a 40 year period...

the one study was done under orders by President bill clinton, through his Department of Justice. They hired two anti gun researchers to create a study to determine how often guns are used in self defense each year...their number, from the study they built, created and used......1.5 million times a year.......

Here is Clinton's actual gun study...the number of 1.5 million is on page 9
https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles/165476.pdf



And all of those professionally done studies....not one came back with a defensive gun use number below 764,000 times a year......

And the rape studies....show that a woman facing a violent rapist on her own has the best chance of surviving and not being raped and murdered if she uses a gun to stop the attacker.....the differential between a man and a woman, especially if the man is a sociopath, is just too much for any other means of self defense to be as effective as a gun.

 

[2aguy]

2agay, apparently you have done lots of homework on if guns are a safety net for innocent victims, and I'm sure many times they are. Thanks for posting, I may read some of your links, but then again, I know most women are raped by someone they know, and also unless gang related, most murders are done by someone the victim knows. The ones done by nut cases like above are becoming more common, and times are changing that is for sure. I guess I'll stick with the wasp spray for now.

The ones done by nut cases like above are becoming more common

Actually, that is not true. More Americans own and actually carry guns now than ever before...and the gun murder rate is going down, not up. There are currently over 12.8 million Americans carrying guns for self defense....and the gun murder rate is down...as is the gun accidental death rate. It is easy to get a false impression of what is happening because these incidents get lots of coverage, while the incident of the woman approached by 2 men with baseball bats, telling her she was going with them....and then she draws her concealed carry pistol and they run away....doesn't get near the coverage. Most self defense with guns, the defender never fires a shot because the criminal runs away....that doesn't make the news unless they catch it on camera, and then, it only makes local news.

You are getting a skewed perspective on gun violence in the United States. Like you said most gun crime happens in very small, local, multi block areas in inner cities, the rest of the country is as safe or safer than the countries in Europe...and that is with people carrying guns for protection.

 

[2aguy]

No one's going to read walls of text.

It just doesn't work.

Hell, I support the 2nd, but I just skimmed over that great Wall of China you just posted.

I know.....I like to have all the info. where I can copy it, rather than having to dig it up......now I can break it down to address the anti gun extremists and other people who might make points on the issue...