U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

[rikules]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

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I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

I wonder how much money the USG has spent worldwide since 2001 so that Islamic prisoners of war could practice their faith while prisoners of war. I bet the amount is beyond staggering

seems to me that, whatever religious persuasion a soldier or a prisoner is, that their own religious leaders would be more than willing to provide services at their own cost

for soldiers I understand that the military provides (and I have no problem with this)
chaplains and priests etc....
I have no doubt that for believers it is good for morale

but for prisoners I would expect (in the case of muslims) islamic leaders to provide services at their own expense

 

[SFC Ollie]

I did not read every post in this thread and I can not answer what exactly happened at Ft. Eustis. But i can tell you that it has been common in the US Military for those in a training company to be offered the opportunity to attend religious services, and because it is still a training environment those who do not attend end up doing barracks maintenance. (Actually cleaning the place up) This has happened as far back as I go with the military which would be July of 1971. And yes we still did the same thing with trainees when I retired in 93. Though sometimes a Drill Sergeant would just take the non attendees into the barracks game room and at times some were permitted to go to the post library.

 

[ConHog]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

You can not like it all you want. There isn't anything wrong or illegal about the military spending money to provide religious facilities, services, and events to its soldiers.

The government spending money on such things does not amount to "Congress passing a law respecting a religion."

I have no problem with the military providing entertainment for the troops

In fact, I'm all for it!

It's good for morale!

but it should be diverse and inclusive

I have no problem with christian bands playing for the troops

but soldiers should have the right to attend or not attend without fear of punishment

I'm an atheist
and I'm also a musician
so I am aware of the fact that there are some excellent christian musicians (and some great tunes, even if I don't believe the words)

I would probably attend a christian concert just for the entertainment

(free tickets? heck, why not?)

Well, as an exampl3e just look at who performs at USO events. The WWE, for example. it's not like the military limits it to JUST Christian events. ANd as both Ollie and I have told you now. This is SOP. Go or clean. your "choice"

 

[rdean]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

You can not like it all you want. There isn't anything wrong or illegal about the military spending money to provide religious facilities, services, and events to its soldiers.

The government spending money on such things does not amount to "Congress passing a law respecting a religion."

It is wrong to "force" them to go. What is wrong with you?

 

[Valerie]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

You can not like it all you want. There isn't anything wrong or illegal about the military spending money to provide religious facilities, services, and events to its soldiers.

The government spending money on such things does not amount to "Congress passing a law respecting a religion."

It is wrong to "force" them to go. What is wrong with you?

No one forced them to go.

 

[AllieBaba]

The choice is funny. When my kids are at an age when control is really important to them, I'll give them choices like, "You may play quietly in your room, or sit in the corner. Which would you like to do?"

If they sit in the corner, it's because they chose it.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

under Bush this became pretty standard.

Liar, provide evidence.

 

[ConHog]

The choice is funny. When my kids are at an age when control is really important to them, I'll give them choices like, "You may play quietly in your room, or sit in the corner. Which would you like to do?"

If they sit in the corner, it's because they chose it.

You mean you don't let your children make a choice without considering the consequences and then change the rules because they didn't think about the consequences? That's no fair.

 

[AllieBaba]

Well, I do that too...

 

[AllieBaba]

under Bush this became pretty standard.

Liar, provide evidence.

Splatter doesn't believe in evidence.

 

[theHawk]

U.S. Soldiers Punished for Not Attending Christian Concert : Veterans Today

And then there’s the cost. These concerts aren’t just small events with local Christian bands. We’re talking about the top, nationally known, award-winning Christian artists, with headline acts costing anywhere from $30,000 to $100,000, and even many of the opening acts being in the $10,000 range.

The cost of these concerts led MRFF’s research department to start looking at some of the DoD contracts for other “spiritual fitness” events and programs, and what we found was astounding. One contract, for example, awarded to an outside consulting firm to provide “spiritual fitness” services, was for $3.5 million.

MRFF was already aware that exorbitant amounts of DoD funding were going to the hiring of civilian religious employees by military installations, the expenses of religious (almost exclusively evangelical Christian) programs, and extravagant religious facilities, but the extent of this spending goes far beyond what we had initially thought it amounted to. Therefore, MRFF has decided to launch an investigation into exactly how much the military is spending on promoting religion.

------------

I don't like my tax dollars going to "Ooga Booga".

It's harder for atheists in the military. They know they are sacrificing their only life for this country. Many of the religious think they will be "getting something" in return.

You can not like it all you want. There isn't anything wrong or illegal about the military spending money to provide religious facilities, services, and events to its soldiers.

The government spending money on such things does not amount to "Congress passing a law respecting a religion."

It is wrong to "force" them to go. What is wrong with you?

Strawman. No one ever said they should be, nor does the military force anyone to go to them.

 

[Toome]

I don't see the "punishment" aspect. I do see a lot of whining from the soldiers who went to the press, and the punishment that will result from that little stunt. But as for going back to the barracks for a GI party, hey, that's life for a no-time-in-grade private.

The military ain't a democracy.

These little shitheads better learn that one quickly, especially if they end up deploying into a sandbox. This individuality bullshit will get them killed.

 

[Smartt33]

What's wrong with the military requiring these soldiers to attend? Isn't diversity a good thing?

Wat.

Are you out of your mind?

I remember being in many training programs in the military where the instructors told filthy jokes, and used massive profanity. I had to be there, and could suffer consequences if I did not go. Sometimes we have to endure.

 

[Smartt33]

Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America


Specialist Jeremy Hall decided to be open and honest about his lack of religious faith, challenging the old adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. It turned out to be a move that jeopardized his deployment, his military career, and even his personal safety.

Pressure came both from peers and from officers. When Jeremy decided not to pray at Thanksgiving dinner, he was singled out and told that he couldn’t sit with the others. A superior officer later told him that, in order to be a good leader, he would have to put his personal convictions aside and pray anyway. Jeremy refused to do so, and did not receive a promotion. The situation got worse when Jeremy’s meeting of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was crashed by Major Welborn, who chastised him and threatened disciplinary action – simply because Jeremy was an atheist.

Jeremy began receiving death threats. On leave in Qatar, he was chased by a group of soldiers who called him religious slurs and threatened to beat him up. Fearing for Jeremy’s safety, the US Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard, and later transferred him out of the Middle East onto a military base in Kansas. Jeremy filed a lawsuit claiming that the coercive religious climate in the military was an unconstitutional violation of his religious freedom. After three and a half years in the Army, he decided not to re-enlist. Despite the desire to serve, he felt unable to do so as an open atheist.

This article gives no source. How would anyone expect that conservatives, and Christians would take the "secular" site as a credible source when the liberal other rejects Fox?

The story may be true, however, I see no reason to take any stock in it.

Atheists are typically social rejects who blather incessently about how stupid Christians are. So while I agree with you about the dubious nature of the story and the source, on the other hand I could certainly see soldiers reacting strongly to a loser who insists on insulting others at every opportunity.

Agreed.

 

[Father Time]

I don't see the "punishment" aspect.

Are you kidding me? 'You didn't attend the concert where we gonna preach Jesus to you, now you're in lockdown and have to do maintenance'.

 

[SFC Ollie]

Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.

 

[bodecea]

Talk To Action | U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."

Any doubt that this was an evangelical Christian event was cleared up by the Army post's newspaper, the Fort Eustis Wheel, which ran an article after the concert that began:

"Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."

"Those of us that chose not to attend (about 80, or a little less that half) were marched back to the company area. At that point the NCO issued us a punishment. We were to be on lock-down in the company (not released from duty), could not go anywhere on post (no PX, no library, etc). We were to go to strictly to the barracks and contact maintenance. If we were caught sitting in our rooms, in our beds, or having/handling electronics (cell phones, laptops, games) and doing anything other than maintenance, we would further have our weekend passes revoked and continue barracks maintenance for the entirety of the weekend. At that point the implied message was clear in my mind 'we gave you a choice to either satisfy us or disappoint us. Since you chose to disappoint us you will now have your freedoms suspended and contact chores while the rest of your buddies are enjoying a concert.'

"At that evening, nine of us chose to pursue an EO complaint. I was surprised to find out that a couple of the most offended soldiers were actually Christian themselves (Catholic). One of them was grown as a child in Cuba and this incident enraged him particularly as it brought memories of oppression."

In the Army.mil article, Maj. Gen. Chambers was quoted as saying, "The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion. It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds." But there has been no "mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds" at these concerts. Every one of them has had evangelical Christian performers, who typically not only perform their music but give their Christian testimony and read from the Bible in between songs.

So, thoughts USMB?

I know in OCS I went to Sunday church service to get out of MORE duty....but this is pretty extreme if true.

 

[bodecea]

I don't blame them for not going. Christian rock kinda sucks.

I understand Kate Perry started there...as did Meatloaf.

 

[bodecea]

Talk To Action | U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

On May 13, 2010, about eighty soldiers, stationed at Fort Eustis while attending a training course, were punished for opting out of attending one of these Christian concerts. The headliner at this concert was a Christian rock band called BarlowGirl, a band that describes itself as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."

Any doubt that this was an evangelical Christian event was cleared up by the Army post's newspaper, the Fort Eustis Wheel, which ran an article after the concert that began:

"Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."

In the Army.mil article, Maj. Gen. Chambers was quoted as saying, "The idea is not to be a proponent for any one religion. It's to have a mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds." But there has been no "mix of different performers with different religious backgrounds" at these concerts. Every one of them has had evangelical Christian performers, who typically not only perform their music but give their Christian testimony and read from the Bible in between songs.

So, thoughts USMB?

They were ordered to attend and they disobeyed an order. Is that about right?

Ordered to attend a Christian concert........you find that to be a legal order?

 

[bodecea]

MILITARY RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FOUNDATION NOMINATED FOR 2010 NOBEL PEACE PRIZE

In 2005, in response to overt religious discrimination at the U.S. Air Force Academy, Weinstein started MRFF. His specific mission at the time was to stop the ubiquitous religious discrimination from fundamentalist Christians at the Academy bent on converting mainline Protestants, Roman Catholics and non-Christians to their beliefs utilizing the draconian spectre of military command influence. That civil rights mission has now massively expanded over the last four years to include all of the approximately 1,000 American military installations scattered around the globe in over 130 host countries.

Weinstein is the author of “With God On Our Side: One Man’s War Against an Evangelical Coup in America’s Military,” published in 2006 from St. Martins Press. The paperback edition, published in 2008, has a forward by Ambassador (retired) Joe Wilson. The book is an expose on the systemic problem of religious intolerance throughout the U.S. armed forces.

I begin to wonder at what kind of underground movement there seems to be going on...