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Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America
Specialist Jeremy Hall decided to be open and honest about his lack of religious faith, challenging the old adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. It turned out to be a move that jeopardized his deployment, his military career, and even his personal safety.
Pressure came both from peers and from officers. When Jeremy decided not to pray at Thanksgiving dinner, he was singled out and told that he couldnt sit with the others. A superior officer later told him that, in order to be a good leader, he would have to put his personal convictions aside and pray anyway. Jeremy refused to do so, and did not receive a promotion. The situation got worse when Jeremys meeting of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was crashed by Major Welborn, who chastised him and threatened disciplinary action simply because Jeremy was an atheist.
Jeremy began receiving death threats. On leave in Qatar, he was chased by a group of soldiers who called him religious slurs and threatened to beat him up. Fearing for Jeremys safety, the US Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard, and later transferred him out of the Middle East onto a military base in Kansas. Jeremy filed a lawsuit claiming that the coercive religious climate in the military was an unconstitutional violation of his religious freedom. After three and a half years in the Army, he decided not to re-enlist. Despite the desire to serve, he felt unable to do so as an open atheist.
Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.
Religious discrimination in the military | Secular Coalition for America
Specialist Jeremy Hall decided to be open and honest about his lack of religious faith, challenging the old adage that there are no atheists in foxholes. It turned out to be a move that jeopardized his deployment, his military career, and even his personal safety.
Pressure came both from peers and from officers. When Jeremy decided not to pray at Thanksgiving dinner, he was singled out and told that he couldnt sit with the others. A superior officer later told him that, in order to be a good leader, he would have to put his personal convictions aside and pray anyway. Jeremy refused to do so, and did not receive a promotion. The situation got worse when Jeremys meeting of the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers was crashed by Major Welborn, who chastised him and threatened disciplinary action simply because Jeremy was an atheist.
Jeremy began receiving death threats. On leave in Qatar, he was chased by a group of soldiers who called him religious slurs and threatened to beat him up. Fearing for Jeremys safety, the US Army assigned him a full-time bodyguard, and later transferred him out of the Middle East onto a military base in Kansas. Jeremy filed a lawsuit claiming that the coercive religious climate in the military was an unconstitutional violation of his religious freedom. After three and a half years in the Army, he decided not to re-enlist. Despite the desire to serve, he felt unable to do so as an open atheist.
One command I was in in San Diego had a LT who was a practicing Wiccan. His other department officers brutalized him, putting up personal, and quit rude jokes about him, his religion, witches, the devil etc.
Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.
Yes because real men take illegal bullshit like having to be punished for not listening to a religious sermon.
Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.
Yes because real men take illegal bullshit like having to be punished for not listening to a religious sermon.
Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.
Yes because real men take illegal bullshit like having to be punished for not listening to a religious sermon.
this is why free thinking people generally avoid military service
I don't see the "punishment" aspect.
Are you kidding me? 'You didn't attend the concert where we gonna preach Jesus to you, now you're in lockdown and have to do maintenance'.
Thoughts??.. I want an actual source, not some winger site
Several things I noticed in the story:
They weren't allowed to use their laptops, iPods, cell phones or any other electronics. Really? Privates with their own personal items in a basic training environment? Back in the old days, when the Army was all about training warriors, that shit was called "contraband."
They weren't allowed to go to the PX, library or any other place on post. Wahh! In the life of a private, that's called a "privilege" NOT a right. They weren't "locked down," they just weren't authorized to be anywhere else but the barracks or that concert. Again, that's what being in basic training is all about.
The Army is all about teamwork. These shitbirds don't get it. They're selfishly concerned about their own personal preferences. That will get soldiers killed on the battlefield. The sergeant doesn't give a damn about Jesus or any religious message from that concert. He's concerned about building a team. He gave those soldiers the opportunity to act as one team, and a handful of them fucked it up.
So, yeah, the sergeant handled it correctly. And he needs to take those whining crybabies to the back of the woodshed for some good old-fashioned wall-to-wall counseling. But today's Army won't allow that.
Several things I noticed in the story:
They weren't allowed to use their laptops, iPods, cell phones or any other electronics. Really? Privates with their own personal items in a basic training environment? Back in the old days, when the Army was all about training warriors, that shit was called "contraband."
They weren't allowed to go to the PX, library or any other place on post. Wahh! In the life of a private, that's called a "privilege" NOT a right. They weren't "locked down," they just weren't authorized to be anywhere else but the barracks or that concert. Again, that's what being in basic training is all about.
The Army is all about teamwork. These shitbirds don't get it. They're selfishly concerned about their own personal preferences. That will get soldiers killed on the battlefield. The sergeant doesn't give a damn about Jesus or any religious message from that concert. He's concerned about building a team. He gave those soldiers the opportunity to act as one team, and a handful of them fucked it up.
So, yeah, the sergeant handled it correctly. And he needs to take those whining crybabies to the back of the woodshed for some good old-fashioned wall-to-wall counseling. But today's Army won't allow that.
I'm with you on the contraband thing. I'm also with you on the fact that the choices would be concert or barracks... HOWEVER...
Back when I was in basic training, I remember several religious services being held for various reasons, and no-one was forced to go, EVER.
There are many, many ways to ingrain team mentality into trainees, and religious brainwashing sure as hell doesn't need to be one of them.
The problem occurred because the soldiers were given punishment AFTER the event, not because they were confined to the barracks DURING the event.
If by free thinking you mean cowards who love to talk about how precious freedom is but aren't willing to sacrifice anything for it, then you are correct. Those folks generally do avoid the military.
When I was in boot camp my range buddy was an atheist, he didn't believe in God, but he got his butt up every Sunday and went to chapel with us because he didn't want to clean on our one day off. To his credit he was polite and attentive during services. At the end of boot camp he was still an atheist, but he was an atheist who never cleaned on Sundays.
It wasn't a religious service.
It wasn't punishment.
It wasn't brainwashing.
It wasn't a religious service.
It wasn't punishment.
It wasn't brainwashing.
It was a concert of religious music to praise a particular religious figure. That is a religious service.
Even worse, it is a missionary event, where entertainment is used in an attempt to garner new converts, which can otherwise be referred to as "brainwashing".
If this was an event where several popular Islamic figures were praising Allah, and soldiers were forced to go, there would be a strong outcry from every single person in this thread that is currently defending this.
I don't see the "punishment" aspect.
Are you kidding me? 'You didn't attend the concert where we gonna preach Jesus to you, now you're in lockdown and have to do maintenance'.
Several things I noticed in the story:
They weren't allowed to use their laptops, iPods, cell phones or any other electronics. Really? Privates with their own personal items in a basic training environment? Back in the old days, when the Army was all about training warriors, that shit was called "contraband."
They weren't allowed to go to the PX, library or any other place on post. Wahh! In the life of a private, that's called a "privilege" NOT a right. They weren't "locked down," they just weren't authorized to be anywhere else but the barracks or that concert. Again, that's what being in basic training is all about.
The Army is all about teamwork. These shitbirds don't get it. They're selfishly concerned about their own personal preferences. That will get soldiers killed on the battlefield. The sergeant doesn't give a damn about Jesus or any religious message from that concert. He's concerned about building a team. He gave those soldiers the opportunity to act as one team, and a handful of them fucked it up.
So, yeah, the sergeant handled it correctly. And he needs to take those whining crybabies to the back of the woodshed for some good old-fashioned wall-to-wall counseling. But today's Army won't allow that.
Are you kidding me? 'You didn't attend the concert where we gonna preach Jesus to you, now you're in lockdown and have to do maintenance'.
Several things I noticed in the story:
They weren't allowed to use their laptops, iPods, cell phones or any other electronics. Really? Privates with their own personal items in a basic training environment? Back in the old days, when the Army was all about training warriors, that shit was called "contraband."
They weren't allowed to go to the PX, library or any other place on post. Wahh! In the life of a private, that's called a "privilege" NOT a right. They weren't "locked down," they just weren't authorized to be anywhere else but the barracks or that concert. Again, that's what being in basic training is all about.
The Army is all about teamwork. These shitbirds don't get it. They're selfishly concerned about their own personal preferences. That will get soldiers killed on the battlefield. The sergeant doesn't give a damn about Jesus or any religious message from that concert. He's concerned about building a team. He gave those soldiers the opportunity to act as one team, and a handful of them fucked it up.
So, yeah, the sergeant handled it correctly. And he needs to take those whining crybabies to the back of the woodshed for some good old-fashioned wall-to-wall counseling. But today's Army won't allow that.
From what I read....this was not boot camp.
Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.
Yes because real men take illegal bullshit like having to be punished for not listening to a religious sermon.
this is why free thinking people generally avoid military service
Some days I went to the services other days I stayed at the barracks. No one thought much about it. I guess we were real men back then and not little whiners that cried about having to mop a floor.
Yes because real men take illegal bullshit like having to be punished for not listening to a religious sermon.
this is why free thinking people generally avoid military service
Several things I noticed in the story:
They weren't allowed to use their laptops, iPods, cell phones or any other electronics. Really? Privates with their own personal items in a basic training environment? Back in the old days, when the Army was all about training warriors, that shit was called "contraband."
They weren't allowed to go to the PX, library or any other place on post. Wahh! In the life of a private, that's called a "privilege" NOT a right. They weren't "locked down," they just weren't authorized to be anywhere else but the barracks or that concert. Again, that's what being in basic training is all about.
The Army is all about teamwork. These shitbirds don't get it. They're selfishly concerned about their own personal preferences. That will get soldiers killed on the battlefield. The sergeant doesn't give a damn about Jesus or any religious message from that concert. He's concerned about building a team. He gave those soldiers the opportunity to act as one team, and a handful of them fucked it up.
So, yeah, the sergeant handled it correctly. And he needs to take those whining crybabies to the back of the woodshed for some good old-fashioned wall-to-wall counseling. But today's Army won't allow that.
I'm with you on the contraband thing. I'm also with you on the fact that the choices would be concert or barracks... HOWEVER...
Back when I was in basic training, I remember several religious services being held for various reasons, and no-one was forced to go, EVER.
There are many, many ways to ingrain team mentality into trainees, and religious brainwashing sure as hell doesn't need to be one of them.
The problem occurred because the soldiers were given punishment AFTER the event, not because they were confined to the barracks DURING the event.
