U.S. Soldiers Punished For Not Attending Christian Concert

[rikules]

Shows what a pussy you are. When I was in boot camp, EVERYONE went to "optional" chapel on Sunday because if you didn't you "chose" to be on cleanup duty for the day.

PS - COTUS rights do not apply in the military.

does that mean you believe that soldiers can be forced to attend christian services?

that the military can punish soldiers who refuse to attend?

If by punish you mean assign duties, yes. However the reality is that soldiers aren't limited to Christianity, and you know that.

I believe that these cases are rare.

I believe that MOST of the military leadership does NOT enforce religion or christianity

I also beleve that these rare case should not be tolerated.

forced religion ANYWHERE in America (especially the military) would make a mockery of freedom
of freedom of religion
and would make us no better than some thrid world islamic dictatorship.

I wish that cons who shout about America being GREAT because we have RIGHTS and FREEDOMS would stop making a mockery of those beliefs by endorsing forced religion and punishments for non-religious people/soldiers

 

[rikules]

Doesn't really fit with the (false) premise that the military is religion-neutral.

The military SHOULD BE religion nuetral

any American who wants to serve in the military, regardless of their religious beliefs or nonbeliefs, should be able to do so without religious coercion

And of course they are.

Too bad for you that you do not understand that in our volunteer military, a person VOLUNTEERS to forgo certain rights. The UCMJ is loosely based on the COTUS, at besat.

so you think forcing the christian religion on volunteer soldiers is acceptable?

 

[AllieBaba]

God, country, corps.

 

[ConHog]

does that mean you believe that soldiers can be forced to attend christian services?

that the military can punish soldiers who refuse to attend?

If by punish you mean assign duties, yes. However the reality is that soldiers aren't limited to Christianity, and you know that.

I believe that these cases are rare.

I believe that MOST of the military leadership does NOT enforce religion or christianity

I also beleve that these rare case should not be tolerated.

forced religion ANYWHERE in America (especially the military) would make a mockery of freedom
of freedom of religion
and would make us no better than some thrid world islamic dictatorship.

I wish that cons who shout about America being GREAT because we have RIGHTS and FREEDOMS would stop making a mockery of those beliefs by endorsing forced religion and punishments for non-religious people/soldiers

What part of "your rights stop when you join the military " don't you understand?

I can guarantee you that every single person who has ever served has at some point been ordered to do something that would be unconstitutional in the not military world, but that isn't relevant. Like I said, when I went to boot camp in 1988 Sunday was a day off, the ONLY day off, ever week , but if you didn't attend chapel , you were on clean up duty. Guess that was forcing religion on us?

 

[rikules]

God, country, corps.

I imagine that in the whole history of the marine corps at least 1 person was an atheist

as a taxpayer who pays for the marine corps I would hope that my atheist son would be able to serve in the marine corps (that I help pay for) without fear of religious coercion or punishment for not being religious

and I wonder why you are so keen on forcing people to believe in god?

when you talk like that you sound an awful lot like those fundamentalist muslims

this is not the first topic in which you have expressed your rather extreme religious beliefs

why can't you just let nonbelievers (and nonchristians) alone?

why do you feel you have to force your beliefs on them?

sounds rather unAmerican, to me

 

[rikules]

If by punish you mean assign duties, yes. However the reality is that soldiers aren't limited to Christianity, and you know that.

I believe that these cases are rare.

I believe that MOST of the military leadership does NOT enforce religion or christianity

I also beleve that these rare case should not be tolerated.

forced religion ANYWHERE in America (especially the military) would make a mockery of freedom
of freedom of religion
and would make us no better than some thrid world islamic dictatorship.

I wish that cons who shout about America being GREAT because we have RIGHTS and FREEDOMS would stop making a mockery of those beliefs by endorsing forced religion and punishments for non-religious people/soldiers

What part of "your rights stop when you join the military " don't you understand?

I can guarantee you that every single person who has ever served has at some point been ordered to do something that would be unconstitutional in the not military world, but that isn't relevant. Like I said, when I went to boot camp in 1988 Sunday was a day off, the ONLY day off, ever week , but if you didn't attend chapel , you were on clean up duty. Guess that was forcing religion on us?

"What part of "your rights stop when you join the military " don't you understand"

the part where they force their religious beliefs on you.

do you really believe that the military should be forcing people to accept religion?
in particular...christianity?

I understand that MOST rights do not exist in the military

I do NOT agree that your right to religious freedom does not exist in the military

YOU can go along with that premise if you want

but I disagree with it and think that it is a practice that should not be tolerated

 

[AllieBaba]

As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders.

Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think.

 

[rikules]

Soldier Sues Military for Religious Discrimination

at this point I no longer think it is neccessary to find any link that cons will accept (animpoosible task considering their absolute refusal to accept anything they do NOT WANT TO believe)

their posts prove the point...


almost every one of their posts says, in one form or another, "the military has a RIGHT TO FORCE THEIR CHRISTIAN RELIGIOUS BELIEFS ON SOLDIERS!"

 

[ConHog]

The military SHOULD BE religion nuetral

any American who wants to serve in the military, regardless of their religious beliefs or nonbeliefs, should be able to do so without religious coercion

And of course they are.

Too bad for you that you do not understand that in our volunteer military, a person VOLUNTEERS to forgo certain rights. The UCMJ is loosely based on the COTUS, at besat.

so you think forcing the christian religion on volunteer soldiers is acceptable?

I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet. Don't like it, don't join. How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert? LOL

 

[rikules]

As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders.

Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think.

"As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders."

orders, yes

but NOT orders to be religious.

That is just ridiculous.

if you joined the military and were ORDERED to attend a muslim church
or ORDERED to attend atheist discussions on a weekly basis would you do it?

or would you feel that your rights were being violated?


"Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think."

is this an example of christian moral upbringing?

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

is that what jesus would do?

 

[rikules]

And of course they are.

Too bad for you that you do not understand that in our volunteer military, a person VOLUNTEERS to forgo certain rights. The UCMJ is loosely based on the COTUS, at besat.

so you think forcing the christian religion on volunteer soldiers is acceptable?

I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet. Don't like it, don't join. How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert? LOL

"I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet."

Ok
you think the military leadership has a right to ORDER soldiers to accept christianity

I don't.

now we know where we stand

I believe in religious freedom and you do not.

I'm not surprised. I knew that and said it many times.
and I also knew that everytime you and your friends shouted "we believe in FREEDOM!"
you were lying....



"How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert?"

as I already said...I think (hope) that it is rare

but
using my freedom to think
and my freedom to speak
and, if neccessary, my freedom to vote (unless you think I shouldn't have those freedoms, either?)
I would work to deny the military leadership the right to FORCE soldeirs to be religious/christians.

you have every right to try and enforce sharia law
and I have every right, until you take it away from me, to try and deny it

 

[ConHog]

As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders.

Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think.

"As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders."

orders, yes

but NOT orders to be religious. WRONG. ALL orders unless illegal under the UCMJ. NOT the COTUS, but the UCMJ.

That is just ridiculous.

if you joined the military and were ORDERED to attend a muslim church
or ORDERED to attend atheist discussions on a weekly basis would you do it?

or would you feel that your rights were being violated? I would obey, of course knowing that before hand I wouldn't have joined, same I think about people who join the military and then suddenly declare consciences objector when sent to war. bullshit don't join then.


"Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think."

is this an example of christian moral upbringing?

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

No, of course it isn't , but isn't it a little hypocritical to act one way and then get pissed when the other side responds in kind?
is that what jesus would do?

burp

 

[ConHog]

so you think forcing the christian religion on volunteer soldiers is acceptable?

I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet. Don't like it, don't join. How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert? LOL

"I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet."

Ok
you think the military leadership has a right to ORDER soldiers to accept christianity

I don't.

now we know where we stand

I believe in religious freedom and you do not.

I'm not surprised. I knew that and said it many times.
and I also knew that everytime you and your friends shouted "we believe in FREEDOM!"
you were lying....



"How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert?"

as I already said...I think (hope) that it is rare

but
using my freedom to think
and my freedom to speak
and, if neccessary, my freedom to vote (unless you think I shouldn't have those freedoms, either?)
I would work to deny the military leadership the right to FORCE soldeirs to be religious/christians.

you have every right to try and enforce sharia law
and I have every right, until you take it away from me, to try and deny it

You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple.

 

[rikules]

I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet. Don't like it, don't join. How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert? LOL

"I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet."

Ok
you think the military leadership has a right to ORDER soldiers to accept christianity

I don't.

now we know where we stand

I believe in religious freedom and you do not.

I'm not surprised. I knew that and said it many times.
and I also knew that everytime you and your friends shouted "we believe in FREEDOM!"
you were lying....



"How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert?"

as I already said...I think (hope) that it is rare

but
using my freedom to think
and my freedom to speak
and, if neccessary, my freedom to vote (unless you think I shouldn't have those freedoms, either?)
I would work to deny the military leadership the right to FORCE soldeirs to be religious/christians.

you have every right to try and enforce sharia law
and I have every right, until you take it away from me, to try and deny it

You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple.

"You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple. "


I get it.

you believe in forced religion.

you believe that soldiers can be FORCED to accept christianity

you believe that, if you were in the military and your commander ORDERED you to attend muslims mosques on a daily basis you would just DO IT without questioning!

and I believe that this is wrong.

 

[AllieBaba]

As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders.

Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think.

"As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders."

orders, yes

but NOT orders to be religious.

That is just ridiculous.

if you joined the military and were ORDERED to attend a muslim church
or ORDERED to attend atheist discussions on a weekly basis would you do it?

or would you feel that your rights were being violated?


"Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think."

is this an example of christian moral upbringing?

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

is that what jesus would do?

What a twit.

We aren't talking about what Christianity means to me, at least we weren't. Nor does it matter to the topic what sort of Christian I am, nor what Jesus would do.

That's just a diversionary tactic. You're obfuscating. Because, idiot, soldiers are soldiers. They get to do what they're told, including attending events they sometimes really don't want to attend. Every soldier I know has at least one story where they were encouraged (voluntold) to sit through something they really had absolutely no interest in.

Shit, you should see the classes I have to sit through in order to get my degree.

Get over it.

 

[ConHog]

"I think soldiers shutting up and obeying orders is acceptable. You bet."

Ok
you think the military leadership has a right to ORDER soldiers to accept christianity

I don't.

now we know where we stand

I believe in religious freedom and you do not.

I'm not surprised. I knew that and said it many times.
and I also knew that everytime you and your friends shouted "we believe in FREEDOM!"
you were lying....



"How often do you really think any soldier is being forced to attend a Christian concert?"

as I already said...I think (hope) that it is rare

but
using my freedom to think
and my freedom to speak
and, if neccessary, my freedom to vote (unless you think I shouldn't have those freedoms, either?)
I would work to deny the military leadership the right to FORCE soldeirs to be religious/christians.

you have every right to try and enforce sharia law
and I have every right, until you take it away from me, to try and deny it

You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple.

"You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple. "


I get it.

you believe in forced religion.

you believe that soldiers can be FORCED to accept christianity

you believe that, if you were in the military and your commander ORDERED you to attend muslims mosques on a daily basis you would just DO IT without questioning!

and I believe that this is wrong.

And that's cool, just means the military isn't for you.

let me ask you, if a soldier's on base house is searched without a warrant is that illegal?

 

[rikules]

As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders.

Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think.

"As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders."

orders, yes

but NOT orders to be religious. WRONG. ALL orders unless illegal under the UCMJ. NOT the COTUS, but the UCMJ.

That is just ridiculous.

if you joined the military and were ORDERED to attend a muslim church
or ORDERED to attend atheist discussions on a weekly basis would you do it?

or would you feel that your rights were being violated? I would obey, of course knowing that before hand I wouldn't have joined, same I think about people who join the military and then suddenly declare consciences objector when sent to war. bullshit don't join then.


"Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think."

is this an example of christian moral upbringing?

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

No, of course it isn't , but isn't it a little hypocritical to act one way and then get pissed when the other side responds in kind?
is that what jesus would do?

burp

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

No, of course it isn't , but isn't it a little hypocritical to act one way and then get pissed when the other side responds in kind?
==============================================


excuse me?

could you show me one post in this thread where I insulted anyone?
or indulged in personal attacks?

I have been very careful to just stick to the topic and the debate

I have NOT called ANYONE any names or mocked or ridiculed anyone in anyway

please do not lie

 

[blu]

Crappy source, let's see some corroborating evidence.

Man, you must of been so happy that DiamondDave said that so you can follow him on that one. Though you of all people saying that is ironic.

i have never seen alliebabe post an original though, she is great at hitting the "quote" button though

 

[rikules]

You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple.

"You just aren't getting it, you can not apply your COTUS right to the situation. They are NOT applicable. it's just that simple. "


I get it.

you believe in forced religion.

you believe that soldiers can be FORCED to accept christianity

you believe that, if you were in the military and your commander ORDERED you to attend muslims mosques on a daily basis you would just DO IT without questioning!

and I believe that this is wrong.

And that's cool, just means the military isn't for you.

let me ask you, if a soldier's on base house is searched without a warrant is that illegal?

probably

and to be honest i don't care.

I would not make an issue of it and I accept that this is a case where they have given up a particular right.

you can cite thousands of cases where military personnel have given up rights and I won't disagree

on this particular issue, coerced christianity, I do NOT agree.

 

[ConHog]

"As has been pointed out, it's VOLUNTARY and when you join, you agree to take orders."

orders, yes

but NOT orders to be religious. WRONG. ALL orders unless illegal under the UCMJ. NOT the COTUS, but the UCMJ.

That is just ridiculous.

if you joined the military and were ORDERED to attend a muslim church
or ORDERED to attend atheist discussions on a weekly basis would you do it?

or would you feel that your rights were being violated? I would obey, of course knowing that before hand I wouldn't have joined, same I think about people who join the military and then suddenly declare consciences objector when sent to war. bullshit don't join then.


"Save your ridiculous droning for the brain-dead incompetents who care what you think."

is this an example of christian moral upbringing?

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

No, of course it isn't , but isn't it a little hypocritical to act one way and then get pissed when the other side responds in kind?
is that what jesus would do?

burp

I wish you would at least try to behave in a civil manner

your constant personal attacks and insults do not reflect well on you
or your religion...

I mean...really....is THAT what christianity means to you?
being rude and insulting?

No, of course it isn't , but isn't it a little hypocritical to act one way and then get pissed when the other side responds in kind?
==============================================


excuse me?

could you show me one post in this thread where I insulted anyone?
or indulged in personal attacks?

I have been very careful to just stick to the topic and the debate

I have NOT called ANYONE any names or mocked or ridiculed anyone in anyway

please do not lie

Apologies, I meant to be clearer , I didn't mean you personally had been doing so, I meant non Christian vs Christian carry on