UK Four Day Work Week Experiment: Can It Work Here?

[The Duke]

It does in some cases.
I worked a four day week as a machinist.
While it was nice having three day weekends it turned out they wanted you to work on Friday a lot.

12-hour shifts?

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I retired at 51 because I worked 6 and 7 day weeks.

so, you had no life for 30 plus years so you could have one for 20 or so?

Seems sort of silly to me but glad it worked out for you.

 

[pknopp]

Why should college kids be the ones in the unique position to find themselves to be in the benefit of government? I mean, let’s just forgive all debt then? That would help a lot more people, right?

Sure, if some groups can get billions, why shouldn't everyone?

Bulk of Trump's U.S. farm aid goes to biggest and wealthiest farmers: advocacy group

To keep this on topic, I worked 4 days one week, 3 days the next but they were 12 hour days. It was when the company started forced OT as opposed to hiring new people that I said "screw it" and retired.

 

[Blues Man]

so, you had no life for 30 plus years so you could have one for 20 or so?

Seems sort of silly to me but glad it worked out for you.

I had a very good life. And since I was declared an emancipated minor when I was 17 I got a head start in my working career and had my own business up and running by the time I was 20. I put in all the hard work up front and by the time I was 40 I didn't have to work more than 25 or 30 hours a week.

I worked like 2 dogs when I was young lived well below my means and saved the majority of my income.

 

[candycorn]

Why should college kids be the ones in the unique position to find themselves to be in the benefit of government? I mean, let’s just forgive all debt then? That would help a lot more people, right?

Sure.

If you want a serious response....

The average payment of $267 dollars

could be spent on things that would certainly help other industries. Imagine being able to afford another car (helping the auto industry and all of their spin offs), investing (helping the financial services industry), etc... It helps American competitiveness, grows the economy, and helps families develop through increased home ownership, pay down debt, and what have you.

Here is the part where someone will bring up "women's studies" or something like that.

Our global competitors have no issue with their workforce training, development, etc... We need to expand the number of college educated persons.

The entire system is crazy. An 18 year-old is taking out tens of thousands of dollars of loans... Its nuts. If they were doing this for a car or a house...they would be laughed out of the bank. Here is a rough draft of what I recommend as a replacement of what we have now.

Well, what I suggested on another thread was to turn the education system on it's head...

You still get a loan to go to college (if you want a loan and if you want to go to a traditional college but you can also go to a trade school if a college isn't near your residence) but instead of it being managed by Chase or Wells Fargo, the government sets up an account that you can access at any point in your life. You get the monetary equivalent of 60 credit hours put into an account at the DOE.

If you want to get your basics out of the way and gean AA or AAS or AFA or whatever, you can--those are generally 60 hours. If you want to take some classes to help in your career (like a pharmacy technician getting certified in compounding or a rig welder taking underwater welding or a chef wanting to take a restaurant management course) they can without the onerous course load requirements that often come with student aid. If you want to change careers...if you're tired of working in an office and want to become a truck driver (or a truck driver who wants a 9 to 5)...you have that account at the DOE ready for you. Or if you just want to take classes in art appreciation, or cooking, or tai chi (which I highly recommend by the way) just as a personal development play.

The requirements are as follows:

*You go to a publicly funded institution if there is a course available in what you're taking. If nobody within 20 miles (or whatever) of your abode offers diesel mechanics, you can apply your funds to UTI.

*Your fund is the equivalent to the costs of 60 Semester Hours at the ten closest public IHLs near you.

The twist is though that every paycheck you get, has a payment of this loan taken out. There isn't some middle man facilitator jacking up interests and penalties...or some massive debt burden. The students can't "dodge" the payments either. If you go to work,, you will pay this loan back. Additionally There will be an interest payment that essentially rounds up to the nearest 10th dollar. Meaning that if your number is $30,000 and you're 25, you will have 30 years to pay off your loan ($1,000 per year in this case). So averaging 26 paychecks a year, you'll pay $38.47 a paycheck plus $1.53 in interest. If you're older, you'll pay more but on average, you'll also be making more than many 25 y/o.

And yes, there will be waste fraud and abuse. Some people will find a way to game the system, you'll have people who die before the payment is paid back, and you'll have honest errors.


Like I said...that is just a rough draft....

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I had a very good life. And since I was declared an emancipated minor when I was 17 I got a head start in my working career and had my own business up and running by the time I was 20. I put in all the hard work up front and by the time I was 40 I didn't have to work more than 25 or 30 hours a week.

I worked like 2 dogs when I was young lived well below my means and saved the majority of my income.

So you worked 6 days a week for 34 years so you could enjoy 20 or so of not working.

Again, seems sill to me, but since it made you happy I am glad for you.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Sure, if some groups can get billions, why shouldn't everyone?

Bulk of Trump's U.S. farm aid goes to biggest and wealthiest farmers: advocacy group

Seems kind of obvious, the payments were made based upon acres and production.

The larger farms have more acres and more production.

 

[Blues Man]

Sure.

If you want a serious response....

The average payment of $267 dollars

View attachment 761589

could be spent on things that would certainly help other industries. Imagine being able to afford another car (helping the auto industry and all of their spin offs), investing (helping the financial services industry), etc... It helps American competitiveness, grows the economy, and helps families develop through increased home ownership, pay down debt, and what have you.

Here is the part where someone will bring up "women's studies" or something like that.

Our global competitors have no issue with their workforce training, development, etc... We need to expand the number of college educated persons.

The entire system is crazy. An 18 year-old is taking out tens of thousands of dollars of loans... Its nuts. If they were doing this for a car or a house...they would be laughed out of the bank. Here is a rough draft of what I recommend as a replacement of what we have now.

Well, what I suggested on another thread was to turn the education system on it's head...

You still get a loan to go to college (if you want a loan and if you want to go to a traditional college but you can also go to a trade school if a college isn't near your residence) but instead of it being managed by Chase or Wells Fargo, the government sets up an account that you can access at any point in your life. You get the monetary equivalent of 60 credit hours put into an account at the DOE.

If you want to get your basics out of the way and gean AA or AAS or AFA or whatever, you can--those are generally 60 hours. If you want to take some classes to help in your career (like a pharmacy technician getting certified in compounding or a rig welder taking underwater welding or a chef wanting to take a restaurant management course) they can without the onerous course load requirements that often come with student aid. If you want to change careers...if you're tired of working in an office and want to become a truck driver (or a truck driver who wants a 9 to 5)...you have that account at the DOE ready for you. Or if you just want to take classes in art appreciation, or cooking, or tai chi (which I highly recommend by the way) just as a personal development play.

The requirements are as follows:

*You go to a publicly funded institution if there is a course available in what you're taking. If nobody within 20 miles (or whatever) of your abode offers diesel mechanics, you can apply your funds to UTI.

*Your fund is the equivalent to the costs of 60 Semester Hours at the ten closest public IHLs near you.

The twist is though that every paycheck you get, has a payment of this loan taken out. There isn't some middle man facilitator jacking up interests and penalties...or some massive debt burden. The students can't "dodge" the payments either. If you go to work,, you will pay this loan back. Additionally There will be an interest payment that essentially rounds up to the nearest 10th dollar. Meaning that if your number is $30,000 and you're 25, you will have 30 years to pay off your loan ($1,000 per year in this case). So averaging 26 paychecks a year, you'll pay $38.47 a paycheck plus $1.53 in interest. If you're older, you'll pay more but on average, you'll also be making more than many 25 y/o.

And yes, there will be waste fraud and abuse. Some people will find a way to game the system, you'll have people who die before the payment is paid back, and you'll have honest errors.


Like I said...that is just a rough draft....

Why not just forgive everyone's mortgage?

The average mortgage payment is much hugher than a student paon payment

Just think how much more money could be spent in the economy if no one had a mortgage anymore.

Or better yet how about we teach people how to be responsible citizens with integrity and have them pay their own debts?

 

[pknopp]

Seems kind of obvious, the payments were made based upon acres and production.

The larger farms have more acres and more production.

If some can get billions, so should all. That was the argument I replied to.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Sure, if some groups can get billions, why shouldn't everyone?

Bulk of Trump's U.S. farm aid goes to biggest and wealthiest farmers: advocacy group

To keep this on topic, I worked 4 days one week, 3 days the next but they were 12 hour days. It was when the company started forced OT as opposed to hiring new people that I said "screw it" and retired.

Well, we could stop subsidies to farmers I guess, but we need farmers. As far as the distribution of money, we’ll, bigger farms have higher costs, so, it would be natural that they would need more than smaller farms.

I’m not opposed to a 4 day week, as long as they make it 4 - 10 hour days.

 

[pknopp]

Well, we could stop subsidies to farmers I guess, but we need farmers.

We need engineers, doctors, teachers, etc etc etc also.

As far as the distribution of money, we’ll, bigger farms have higher costs, so, it would be natural that they would need more than smaller farms.

I’m not opposed to a 4 day week, as long as they make it 4 - 10 hour days.

So those with a higher student debt should get more.

 

[candycorn]

Why not just forgive everyone's mortgage?

The average mortgage payment is much hugher than a student paon payment

Just think how much more money could be spent in the economy if no one had a mortgage anymore.

Or better yet how about we teach people how to be responsible citizens with integrity and have them pay their own debts?

Sure! Or they could file bankruptcy 6 times.

 

[Blues Man]

So you worked 6 days a week for 34 years so you could enjoy 20 or so of not working.

Again, seems sill to me, but since it made you happy I am glad for you.

You are under the delusion that all I did was work and sleep.

You are wrong of course. I put in all the really hard work up front and by the time I was 40 I was barely working 30 hours a week.

I still managed to take a lot of classes at local colleges, learned to play the guitar met and married my wife. I didn't sit my ass on the couch and watch TV when I wasn't working like the Average American does.

 

[candycorn]

I've been saying for a while that it is just a matter of time before we have a 35, or even a 30, hour work week.

While automation has eliminated a lot of jobs, it has greatly increased worker production.

We are manufacturing more stuff than ever, but using less workers to do it.

We are mining more stuff than ever, but using far less workers to do it.

We are producing more food than ever, but using less workers to do it. At the time of the ratification of the Constitution, 98 percent of Americans were in the agricultural sector. Today, we feed the world with just 2 percent of our labor force.


The UK recently performed an experiment where some companies reduced their work week to four days, while paying the workers the same salary.

It was a resounding success, and the companies involved plan on continuing the four day work week even though the experiment is over.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/21/four-day-work-week-results-uk/

I think it is time we thing about doing the same thing here in the US.

It does make perfect sense that the average work week should be shortened with the advent of automated efficiency, data transmission, travel. You shouldn't need the same amount of time devoted to work as someone who didn't have such automated means.

It would require a paradigm shift.

 

[Blues Man]

Sure! Or they could file bankruptcy 6 times.

If a student loan payment of 300 a month bankrupts a person they have bigger problems than their loan debt

 

[BothWings]

Having the option is all very fine....but I like OPTION S....not government enforced routines.

 

[ThisIsMe]

Sure.

If you want a serious response....

The average payment of $267 dollars

View attachment 761589

could be spent on things that would certainly help other industries. Imagine being able to afford another car (helping the auto industry and all of their spin offs), investing (helping the financial services industry), etc... It helps American competitiveness, grows the economy, and helps families develop through increased home ownership, pay down debt, and what have you.

Here is the part where someone will bring up "women's studies" or something like that.

Our global competitors have no issue with their workforce training, development, etc... We need to expand the number of college educated persons.

The entire system is crazy. An 18 year-old is taking out tens of thousands of dollars of loans... Its nuts. If they were doing this for a car or a house...they would be laughed out of the bank. Here is a rough draft of what I recommend as a replacement of what we have now.

Well, what I suggested on another thread was to turn the education system on it's head...

You still get a loan to go to college (if you want a loan and if you want to go to a traditional college but you can also go to a trade school if a college isn't near your residence) but instead of it being managed by Chase or Wells Fargo, the government sets up an account that you can access at any point in your life. You get the monetary equivalent of 60 credit hours put into an account at the DOE.

If you want to get your basics out of the way and gean AA or AAS or AFA or whatever, you can--those are generally 60 hours. If you want to take some classes to help in your career (like a pharmacy technician getting certified in compounding or a rig welder taking underwater welding or a chef wanting to take a restaurant management course) they can without the onerous course load requirements that often come with student aid. If you want to change careers...if you're tired of working in an office and want to become a truck driver (or a truck driver who wants a 9 to 5)...you have that account at the DOE ready for you. Or if you just want to take classes in art appreciation, or cooking, or tai chi (which I highly recommend by the way) just as a personal development play.

The requirements are as follows:

*You go to a publicly funded institution if there is a course available in what you're taking. If nobody within 20 miles (or whatever) of your abode offers diesel mechanics, you can apply your funds to UTI.

*Your fund is the equivalent to the costs of 60 Semester Hours at the ten closest public IHLs near you.

The twist is though that every paycheck you get, has a payment of this loan taken out. There isn't some middle man facilitator jacking up interests and penalties...or some massive debt burden. The students can't "dodge" the payments either. If you go to work,, you will pay this loan back. Additionally There will be an interest payment that essentially rounds up to the nearest 10th dollar. Meaning that if your number is $30,000 and you're 25, you will have 30 years to pay off your loan ($1,000 per year in this case). So averaging 26 paychecks a year, you'll pay $38.47 a paycheck plus $1.53 in interest. If you're older, you'll pay more but on average, you'll also be making more than many 25 y/o.

And yes, there will be waste fraud and abuse. Some people will find a way to game the system, you'll have people who die before the payment is paid back, and you'll have honest errors.


Like I said...that is just a rough draft....

could be spent on things that would certainly help other industries. Imagine being able to afford another car (helping the auto industry and all of their spin offs), investing (helping the financial services industry), etc... It helps American competitiveness, grows the economy, and helps families develop through increased home ownership, pay down debt, and what have you.

Of course, but forgiving everyone’s debt would ramp that up extensively. If nobody had debt, they could help stimulate the economy by buying more stuff.

The entire system is crazy. An 18 year-old is taking out tens of thousands of dollars of loans... Its nuts. If they were doing this for a car or a house...they would be laughed out of the bank. Here is a rough draft of what I recommend as a replacement of what we have now.

Right, I agree that when it comes to taking our loans, an 18 year old should probably have the guidance of their parents, and it needs to be explained, thoroughly what this means. You are taking on debt that needs to be repaid in the future. This means, you should not be taking more than you need. You might consider working part time while going to college to help offset some of the cost, and you don’t need to go to NYU, Harvard, or Notre Dame to get a college degree. A normal in state college will suffice.

Look for internships that will require a several year work contract when you graduate, but in exchange, they pay your loans off. Things like that.

As for your draft, it appears that it still requires a payment, which is fine. Although, you are still giving people over half their college for free.

I’m not opposed to helping kids go to college and i too think we need an educated work force, but it’s going to be a hard sell for people who either can’t go to college, or who have already paid off their loans, and their children’s loans.

I’m just not sure giving people free college so they can then go out and make a higher income is fair to those who didn’t go, or could not go to college.

I’d be more supportive of perhaps interest free college, and a way you can possibly work off part of your college debt, or, maybe some kind of break if you go into one of the fields that the country really needs.

I think more education needs to be done when students are applying for loans, to make sure they understand the ramifications.

 

[pknopp]

Of course, but forgiving everyone’s debt would ramp that up extensively. If nobody had debt, they could help stimulate the economy by buying more stuff.



Right, I agree that when it comes to taking our loans, an 18 year old should probably have the guidance of their parents, and it needs to be explained, thoroughly what this means. You are taking on debt that needs to be repaid in the future. This means, you should not be taking more than you need. You might consider working part time while going to college to help offset some of the cost, and you don’t need to go to NYU, Harvard, or Notre Dame to get a college degree. A normal in state college will suffice.

Look for internships that will require a several year work contract when you graduate, but in exchange, they pay your loans off. Things like that.

As for your draft, it appears that it still requires a payment, which is fine. Although, you are still giving people over half their college for free.

I’m not opposed to helping kids go to college and i too think we need an educated work force, but it’s going to be a hard sell for people who either can’t go to college, or who have already paid off their loans, and their children’s loans.

I’m just not sure giving people free college so they can then go out and make a higher income is fair to those who didn’t go, or could not go to college.

I’d be more supportive of perhaps interest free college, and a way you can possibly work off part of your college debt, or, maybe some kind of break if you go into one of the fields that the country really needs.

I think more education needs to be done when students are applying for loans, to make sure they understand the ramifications.

Pre 2008 the banks were handing out loans to people they knew could never repay them when things hit the fan. Things were rolling though and money went out haphazardly.

It crashed and the banks got billions. Maybe it's not just 18 year olds that need their hands held a little tighter.

 

[Aldo Raine]

I had a very good life. And since I was declared an emancipated minor when I was 17 I got a head start in my working career and had my own business up and running by the time I was 20. I put in all the hard work up front and by the time I was 40 I didn't have to work more than 25 or 30 hours a week.

I worked like 2 dogs when I was young lived well below my means and saved the majority of my income.

That's awesome, good for you and glad you have plenty of time to enjoy life.

 

[Independent thinker]

I've been saying for a while that it is just a matter of time before we have a 35, or even a 30, hour work week.

While automation has eliminated a lot of jobs, it has greatly increased worker production.

We are manufacturing more stuff than ever, but using less workers to do it.

We are mining more stuff than ever, but using far less workers to do it.

We are producing more food than ever, but using less workers to do it. At the time of the ratification of the Constitution, 98 percent of Americans were in the agricultural sector. Today, we feed the world with just 2 percent of our labor force.


The UK recently performed an experiment where some companies reduced their work week to four days, while paying the workers the same salary.

It was a resounding success, and the companies involved plan on continuing the four day work week even though the experiment is over.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/2023/02/21/four-day-work-week-results-uk/

I think it is time we thing about doing the same thing here in the US.

LOL. I can hear the lefties now, with less working hours we need a bigger raise.