Ukraine-"Russia" sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships

[easyt65]

NATO was formed to defend against threats like the one Putin is proving to be against Ukraine. They have become a 'Club'....a SHOW of Strength / Intent To Defend....but they want no part of getting involved or desire to get in Putin's way should he decide he wants all of the Ukraine back, not just Crimea. Appeasement is preferred - better to allow 1 independent Democratic Nation be taken down like a deer by wolves than put their own nations in Putin's cross hairs.

...WWII began because of the same type of appeasement / mentality....

 

[easyt65]

Poking a bear with a stick is always a stupid idea see Georgia in the South Ossetia dust up. Even more retarded is defending the notion. The petty tyrant declared martial law and looks to defer elections, where he would lose again, requiring the US to stage another coup to place their puppet back in office.

So seeking to protect his nation, from the attacks by Putin from without and from within, makes the nation actually being attacked, that has already had its nation invaded and part of it militarily annexed, makes Ukraine's leader 'the bad guy'?

Great lesson for the United States, huh? If your nation is being eroded and attacked from within, your entire way of life and existence threatened, why fight it. F* it - just let the collapse / coup / take-over happen.

 

[Stratford57]

NATO was formed to defend against threats like the one Putin is proving to be against Ukraine. They have become a 'Club'....a SHOW of Strength / Intent To Defend....but they want no part of getting involved or desire to get in Putin's way should he decide he wants all of the Ukraine back, not just Crimea. Appeasement is preferred - better to allow 1 independent Democratic Nation be taken down like a deer by wolves than put their own nations in Putin's cross hairs.

...WWII began because of the same type of appeasement / mentality....

NATO badly needs "Russia the threat" to justify its existence.

Washington Post:
The exaggerated Russian threat helps justify bloated military budgets and unify increasingly fractious allies. As Robert Hunter, the former U.S. ambassador to NATO, recently observed: “Allegations of Russian interference in the U.S. election campaign become a tool to limit, if not cripple, President Trump’s attempts to change the downward course of U.S. and Western relations with Russia.”

Opinion | Neo-McCarthyite furor around Russia is counterproductive

 

[MisterBeale]

NATO was formed to defend against threats like the one Putin is proving to be against Ukraine. They have become a 'Club'....a SHOW of Strength / Intent To Defend....but they want no part of getting involved or desire to get in Putin's way should he decide he wants all of the Ukraine back, not just Crimea. Appeasement is preferred - better to allow 1 independent Democratic Nation be taken down like a deer by wolves than put their own nations in Putin's cross hairs.

...WWII began because of the same type of appeasement / mentality....

Sure, if Ukraine was indeed "democratic." But it isn't. The nation's of the west are as corrupt as Putin. Don't be deluded. Is global war where the little people would die for the banking cabal worth any of it?

The caveat here is that it ISN'T. Ukraine ISN'T democratic, not anymore than Russia, or all the corruption that went on in the mid-terms here.

The current leader was installed by the U.S. state department and our deep state.

Is your memory so short that you have forgotten that this was an operation by Obama, and Hillary Clinton's number two, Victoria Nuland?



New Details of Victoria Nuland’s Role in the Steele Dossier
New Details of Victoria Nuland’s Role in the Steele Dossier

 

[Blackrook]

Seems to me that the entire country of Ukraine is not worth even one American life.

I note with interest what warmongers Democrats have become, all because Trump wanted to have better relations with Russia.

 

[MisterBeale]

Seems to me that the entire country of Ukraine is not worth even one American life.

I note with interest what warmongers Democrats have become, all because Trump wanted to have better relations with Russia.

I've noticed a lot of them seem to have become racists too.


HATE seems HIP these days, only if you do it "correctly."


They use the term, "white" like it is a pejorative these days. They revel in pointing out the difference in racial characteristics and make fun of the old, male, the white and the christian. And mainstream cultural elites don't say boo about this sort of hate.


Any honest intelligent person could substitute any other ethnicity, age demographic, gender, or religion, and understand how it would be socially unacceptable?

I dunno. . . .

 

[Blackrook]

If they hate me for being white, male and Christian there's not a damn thing I can do about it, except maybe convert to Judaism.

 

[Claudette]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

It isn't. Its their problem and no way should we make it ours.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

You forgot to mention the covert operations of the cia in ukraine. Its about US hegemony over russia and eurasia.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Where is putins aggression?

 

[Litwin]

Poking a bear with a stick is always a stupid idea see Georgia in the South Ossetia dust up. Even more retarded is defending the notion. The petty tyrant declared martial law and looks to defer elections, where he would lose again, requiring the US to stage another coup to place their puppet back in office.

i hope you are not posting from Olgino, ´coz your TV.ru propaganda is just so badly outdated , its pure year 2014,

 

[Litwin]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

If you are interested Putin told the whole story about Ukrainian provocation in Black see. It's a bit long but worth of reading.

Vladimir Putin: As concerns the incident in the Black Sea, it was obviously a provocation organised by the current officials – I think, by the incumbent president, ahead of the presidential election in Ukraine to be held next March.

The current president is, I think, fifth in the popularity rating and there is a chance he may not make it into the second round. Therefore, he needs to do something to escalate the situation and create unsurpassable obstacles for his rivals, especially in the opposition.

Why do I think so and why am I even certain that this is the case? Look, there was an incident (I will speak about it in a minute) in the Black Sea. But it is a border incident, nothing more. What happened in 2014 when Crimea decided to join Russia? That was a different story, a big one.

What about the painful civil war in southeastern Ukraine, in Donbass, in the Lugansk region, when government forces deployed tanks and heavy artillery, even aviation? It was a war while no martial law was declared.

Now, a small Black Sea incident resulted in martial law. This is clearly a measure taken because of the presidential election. It is absolutely obvious.

Now regarding this incident, or provocation, to be exact. Certainly, this is a provocation. Look, last September roughly the same convoy of Ukrainian military ships passed through the Kerch Strait under the Kerch Bridge to the Sea of Azov.

They fully complied with all agreements and requirements, informing the border guards about what ships made up the convoy, who they were and where they were going. We provided them with a pilotage service and quietly led them to their destination in the Sea of Azov.

What happened this time? They did not respond to our border guard’s requests. They entered our territorial waters. I would like you to note that they entered our territorial waters which were ours before Crimea became part of the Russian Federation. That is, they entered the waters which have always been Russian territorial waters.

Without responding to our border guards, they proceeded to move towards the [Kerch] Bridge. Neither did they respond to our proposal to moor the ships at the marina. Our proposal to take a pilot – even after the violation of our state border they, nevertheless, were offered to take a pilot – was met with silence, there was no reaction whatsoever.

What should border guards do in a situation like this? Military ships had entered Russian territorial waters and were not responding to our border guards and it was unclear what they were going to do. What did the border guards have to do? Had they acted differently, all of them would have been put on trial. They were fulfilling their military duty, the order they were given and, as things stand, they were fulfilling their legitimate functions to protect the territorial integrity of the Russian Federation.

I believe that the same would have been done in any other country, it is absolutely clear. Also, it was discovered that two Ukrainian Security Service officers were among the crew members and, in fact, were in charge of this special operation. They have acknowledged they were Ukrainian Security Service officers. These are clear signs of a provocation that had been planned in advance so it could be used as a pretext for introducing martial law in the country.

This has nothing to do with the efforts being taken to put relations between Russia and Ukraine back on track. This is a game to exacerbate tension, this is an immoral game that is being played in the country in order to neutralise someone’s political opponents.

In fact, I have already got used to many things but today’s Kiev authorities…They have succeeded in selling anti-Russia sentiments and they have nothing else to sell. It seems that no matter what they do, they always get away with it. If they ask to be given infants for breakfast they will probably have them served. Well, we will be told, they want to eat and that is it.

This is a very short-sighted policy. It will not lead to good things because it tends to unnerve today’s Ukrainian leadership in a way that it does not urge them to get down to normal political work within the country and start pursuing normal economic policy.

They have economic problems in addition to social and financial problems and they never stop to beg, asking the International Monetary Fund to give them money. But these are the future generations who will have to pay this money back. As for their work to promote cooperation with their neighbours, there is nothing good to speak about.

Russia Calling! Investment Forum

P.S. And all that happened just in 5 days before important Putin/Trump negotiations in Argentina on November, 30 hopping to destroy them.

That's what I'm reading in other independent media.

from TV.ru?



"Russian" TV: "a rysski child was crucified in Ukraine."

 

[Litwin]

So wait...you defend Russia trying to invade and conquer Ukraine in the same way you defend Hitler invading and conquering Czechoslovakia?

Are you a Russian troll?

Nope, just can't get worked up about the Ukrainians being in a mess they got themselves into.

It's not my problem.

Putin's aggression is the WORLD'S problem...just as Hitler's aggressions were

Don't you mean Ukraine's aggression is Putin's problem, not our problem?

There are two sides to every story. Why did they fire?

Hmmmm.. . . .

Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova
Earlier in the day, the press service of the Russian FSB's Crimean border department detailed that three Ukrainian Navy ships crossed into a temporarily off-limits section of Russian territorial waters, moving from the Black Sea to the Kerch Strait.
Ukraine Resorts to 'Bandit Methods' in Kerch Strait - Maria Zakharova

how it feels to lose again?

"
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
· 41 мин

Based on the fact that the ships and sailors have not been returned to Ukraine from "Russia",
I have decided it would be best for all parties concerned to cancel my previously scheduled meeting....
"

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

The Country of Czechoslovakia did not vote to be German. The Ukrainians voted to return to Russia. The UN didn't like it. Fuck the UN.

 

[CowboyTed]

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

Again, that sounds like a good reason to redraw the borders, give the Crimea and other regions to Russia, and let the Ukrainians keep the rest.

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

Except he didn't "gobble up" the rest of the country. The Slovaks got their own country. The Hungarians got to rejoin Hungary. The Czechs were given their own country.

which everyone at the time was kind of fine with... Nobody thought the fake country of Czechoslovakia was worth going to war over, even the people who lived in it. The Hungarians, Slovaks and Germans welcomed the new order.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

Perhaps. So what? Here's the underlying problem. the borders of nations of the former USSR don't really represent where people actually live, they represent what the commissars thought would be easier to administer. The Crimea was never really considered part of the Ukraine until Krushev decided it was. The Russians living there had enough, and why shouldn't they?

Again, why is any of this our problem?

Now, all that said, I would feel perfectly fine with a rational discussion of this if we didn't have a Russian Puppet in our white house that will probably let Putin get away with this, or worse, start a shooting war to prove he isn't a Russian Stooge.

The think is Crimea might have a lot of Russians today but it's history is not Russian and is more Ukraine... There is no Jews there now but 100 years ago 6% population was Jewish. Russian quietly moved more Russians there when they were in charge. The reason is access to Black Sea and Regional influence.

There is another major point... Russia is setting up Eurasian Economic Union, think of it as an EU for ex USSR countries with Russia in charge... The reason is because other former commie block countries have been joining the EU. So instead of the Baltic Country relying on Russia they are looking towards EU and they are winnning.

They joined in 2004.

So Ukraine is at the cross roads look west or east... Russia is very handed in trying to influence elections. With Crimea gone the Ukraine will probably go west and with the predicted economic boost, question will be asked in Russia why they are alway loosing.

 

[Litwin]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

The Country of Czechoslovakia did not vote to be German. The Ukrainians voted to return to Russia. The UN didn't like it. Fuck the UN.

tovarishch troll, a referendum under foreign occupation has no juridic power

"
United Nations General Assembly Resolution 68/262 was adopted on March 27, 2014 by the sixty-eighth session of the United Nations General Assembly in response to the Russian annexation of Crimea and entitled "Territorial integrity of Ukraine". ...the General Assembly's commitment to the territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders and underscored the invalidity of the 2014 Crimean referendum. Eleven nations voted against the resolution, while 58 abstained, and a further 24 states were absent when the vote took place.

The resolution was introduced by Canada, Costa Rica, Germany, Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine.[1] The adoption of the resolution was preceded by the unsuccessful attempts of the United Nations Security Council, which convened seven sessions to address the Crimean crisis, only to face a Russian veto[2] of draft resolution S/2014/189,[3] sponsored by 42 countries.

The UN General Assembly also passed the related Resolution 71/205 in December 2016, entitled "Situation of human rights in the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and the city of Sevastopol (Ukraine)""

 

[g5000]

Putin is trying to start a war.

How many nations will he be allowed to gobble up?

Maybe the Ukraine should stop fucking with him.

Here's the thing. Ukraine had an election, and the pro-Russia guy won in a fair vote. Then the minority overthrew him, Russians in the Ukraine said, "We're out".

Why is this our problem?

They threw out the Russian stooge BECAUSE he was a corrupt Russian stooge.

Look at your own statement.

"Russians in Ukraine..."

RUSSIANS...not Ukrainians

History is not your friend. Hitler used ethnic Germans in Czechoslovakia as an excuse to take the Sudetenland...after which he simply gobbled up the rest of the country.

That's the blueprint Putin is using

Exactly.

Nailed it.

Hitler kept succeeding because the rest of the world was too cowardly.

It's Chamberlain all over again.

Russia is a Third World shithole trying to elevate their status through intimidation. Fuck that shit. It's time to stomp on the little cockroach. Now.

 

[MisterBeale]

If they hate me for being white, male and Christian there's not a damn thing I can do about it, except maybe convert to Judaism.

. . . . well. . .


....apparently from what I gather, you could identify and a Native American woman too?


A Jewish Native American woman. How about that?

 

[Litwin]

Seems to me that the entire country of Ukraine is not worth even one American life.

I note with interest what warmongers Democrats have become, all because Trump wanted to have better relations with Russia.

you putlerist lost again .

Trump dumped putler and his Somalia in snow

"
Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
· 41 мин

Based on the fact that the ships and sailors have not been returned to Ukraine from "Russia",
I have decided it would be best for all parties concerned to cancel my previously scheduled meeting....
"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

once NATO is there, Somalia with snow will vanish from Azov sea 100% . will NATO finish off new created Somalian off shore in Azov sea? whats Trump is gonna do , which side he supports ?

"Ukraine-"Russia" sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships"...Nato has expressed "full support" for Ukraine, which is not a member state.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46381166

Do they have Marcon's cell phone on speed dial?