UN Resolutions that Israel has defied/ ignored

[jillian]

actually this is where I think Jews AND arabs get a little touchy---If money given to Jews AND Arabs is not discussed AT THE SAME TIME it gets written off as anti-semtitic.

depends on who's raised the issue and why.

in truthdoesn'tmatter's case, it's clear why she raised the issue... repeately... in multiple boring threads.

 

[dilloduck]

depends on who's raised the issue and why.

in truthdoesn'tmatter's case, it's clear why she raised the issue... repeately... in multiple boring threads.

ok lets get some unbiased 3rd party to call the bigotry

 

[toomuchtime_]

I think it's a least legit to know what we get for the 3 billion---other than classified stuff I mean.

We get to keep most of the $3 billion and we get considerable leverage over Israel at the same time. Nearly all of the aid we give to Israel is in the form of credits to buy military hardware from US companies, and when you consider that those purchased create US jobs that produce Federal, state and local taxes, and the wages and salaries from those jobs support other regional businesses, creating more jobs, taxes, etc., it is clear that most of the $3 billion, nearly all of it, in fact, represents a net transfer from the federal government to the states and localities where all of these jobs are created and taxes generated.

So what is the value of this leverage the US gets in return for that part of the military aid that does not come back to us in the form of jobs and taxes? Consider that Israel is the world's fourth or fifth largest exporters of weapons and weapons systems, producing some of the world's most sophisticated systems. A few years ago, an Israeli company sold an airborne radar system, considered equal to or superior to the US AWACS system, to China in a multi billion dollar sale, and when the US objected Israel reneged on the deal and paid China a multi billion dollar indemnity for breach of contract. When one considers the vast array of weapons and weapons systems Israel sells, it is clearly of benefit to US foreign policy and US defense policy to have a veto over who gets which weapons and weapons systems.

Not least among the benefits the US receives from its military aid to Israel is the peace between Egypt and Israel, which may be the reason there has not been a major conflict between Israel and the Arab nations for 35 years. The level of military aid the US gives to Israel and the level of military and economic aid the US gives to Egypt is mandated by the the peace treaty between Egypt and Israel which Jimmy Carter, one of Israel's severest critics, signed on behalf of the US. This treaty gives the US leverage over Egypt as well as Israel and is the model for the peace treaty between Jordan and Israel, and taken together, gives the US enormous influence over three of the major players in the ME and makes the US the only country in the world that has the clout to broker a peace between Israel and the Palestinians if such a peace is possible.

 

[Truthmatters]

So why isn't this thread about getting all of the money back that we give to the Saudi's and the pals?

Hmmmmmm... Gee, I wonder...

Fine with me , I just mentioned Israel because its the biggest recipient and they are heading us to WWIII.

 

[jillian]

Fine with me , I just mentioned Israel because its the biggest recipient and they are heading us to WWIII.

sure the missiles coming from the animals in Gaza have nothing to do with it.

And you sure about your numbers? I'd wager you're making it up as you go along... you know, that whole truthdoesn'tmatter thing.

 

[Truthmatters]

Go look at the link. If you had bothered to read it and follow the links to the info you would know the truth. Do you care about truth?

 

[strollingbones]

he has a point about the amount of aid going to israel...i am and have stated that i am against aid to any country in the middle east....the aid we give to israel allows them to buy military weapons from us....

 

[Truthmatters]

Can you say military industrial complex?

 

[William Joyce]

So why isn't this thread about getting all of the money back that we give to the Saudi's and the pals?

Our second-biggest recipient of foreign aid behind Israel is Egypt.

Yet this should all be counted as aid to Israel, because the money to Egypt is a pay-off: lay off Israel, use your cops to bust up the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

But it all comes back to the massively overpowering Jewish lobby in the United States, which calls the shots no matter who's in power (Bush had Perle, Wolfowitz and Feith telling him what to do, Obama's got Rahm Emmanuel.)

It needs to stop. The U.S. is directly funding the killing of Palestinian civilians, and they know it full well. It's why Osama was motivated to attack us on 9/11.

 

[Truthmatters]

Think of what 3 billion a year would do towards job creation in the US?

 

[Gord]

Think of what 3 billion a year would do towards job creation in the US?

Hey Truthmatters when are you going to apologize for that fraudulent Palestinian video link you posted? Still running and dodging and weaving I see...

 

[Truthmatters]

Link me to what you are talking about and I will adress it.

 

[Truthmatters]

In the meantime why do you think we should send 3 billion a year to a country that is helping WWIII take place?

 

[Gord]

Link me to what you are talking about and I will adress it.

Do you often start threads and just abandone them?

 

[Gord]

In the meantime why do you think we should send 3 billion a year to a country that is helping WWIII take place?

I think every penny that goes to Arab countries that support the Palestinians should be held back on conditions. In fact all money given to foreign powers should have the following stipulation on it:

If the recipient disses the U.S. of A. or our allies for any reason any forthcoming money is to be withheld for two years, and if after two years the recipient has cleaned up their act they will again qualify for American largesse. If they continue to diss or act agressively in any way toward America or her allies they then are cut off permanently. How do you like that little miss fraud video poster?

 

[Annie]

Do you often start threads and just abandone them?

Yes. Wait until she tells you to go to another, unspecified thread to find more info you are to link to.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Our second-biggest recipient of foreign aid behind Israel is Egypt.

Yet this should all be counted as aid to Israel, because the money to Egypt is a pay-off: lay off Israel, use your cops to bust up the Muslim Brotherhood, etc.

But it all comes back to the massively overpowering Jewish lobby in the United States, which calls the shots no matter who's in power (Bush had Perle, Wolfowitz and Feith telling him what to do, Obama's got Rahm Emmanuel.)

It needs to stop. The U.S. is directly funding the killing of Palestinian civilians, and they know it full well. It's why Osama was motivated to attack us on 9/11.

The foreign aid Israel receives from us is in the form of credits to purchase military hardware from US companies and the jobs that are created by these purchases generate wages, salaries and taxes that nearly equal the face value of the credits so that the net effect is a transfer of wealth from the federal government to states and regions that host these companies and very little ever leaves the US.

The US gains two important benefits from this support of Israel. First, we gain great leverage with Israel and Egypt, the two most powerful countries in the ME, because of this aid and this is why there has been no major conflict between Israel and the Arab states for the last 35 years and taken along with the leverage the US has in Jordan because of our contribution to the Israel-Jordan peace treaty and the leverage we have in Saudi Arabia by being their principal arms supplier, the US now has a strong sphere of influence running from North Africa all the way to the Persian Gulf which separates Arab North Africa from the Arab ME and which froze the USSR out of influence in the ME and now serves the same function with respect to Russia. The peace treaty between Israel and Egypt is the keystone which supports the US's entire ME strategy.

But there is another very important benefit the US gains from our support of Israel. Israel is the world's fourth or fifth largest exporter of weapons and weapons systems, producing nearly everything from hand guns to very sophisticated radar and missile systems and is fully capable of manufacturing everything the US supplies it with if it had to. Through its support of Israel, the US has gained a veto over Israeli arms sales that prevents some very sophisticated weapons and weapons systems from being purchased by countries that the US or our allies may have to face in combat.

Considering what a small percentage of our population is Jewish, Jews are disproportionately represented at the highest levels of accomplishments in virtually all fields of endeavor in the US, arts, sciences and humanities, medicine and law and other professions, business and finance, so naturally some of these talented and accomplished people will rise to high levels in politics and government, but as you point out, the highest levels are occupied by non Jews, so it is a bizarre statement to claim that Jews in secondary positions in government have been able, as you claim through all administrations, to dictate to their bosses what US policy should be.

While AIPAC is a strong supporter of a strong US-Israel relationship, simply stating that it exists does not explain US policy since all the Arab states hire US lobbyists, PR firms and lawyers to represent their interests to the US government and to US politicians as well as to try to burnish their image to the US public, and taken together, they spend far more than AIPAC spends. The bias in favor of Israel that most American citizens and most American politicians feel stems from the fact that when US citizens and US politicians look at Israel, the vast majority see a modern democracy that has created a vibrant economy and an effective and efficient government and which shares virtually all of our values, but when they look at Arab states, they see repressive dictatorships that have failed to politically and economically to provide for their citizens and which seem to share few of our values and to be of an alien temperament.

And especially at this time, American citizens and politicians are struck by the similarities between the war we are fighting against Islamic terrorism and the war the Israelis are fighting against Islamic terrorism. Americans see Israeli civilians attacked by Islamic suicide bombers just as American civilians were attacked by Islamic suicide bombers, and they hear very similar justifications for these attacks from both Hamas and al Qaeda, and they understand that while these two political entities may not be the same, they are products of the same culture. They see Israel using the same methods against the terrorists who attack their civilians and their soldiers as the US is using against the terrorists who have attacked our civilians and our soldiers here in the US and in Iraq and Afghanistan. And seeing all of this, it is impossible for most Americans not to believe that the US and Israel are fighting the same war against Islamic terrorism even if at present we are doing battle against different political entities.

Bin Laden originally claimed he attacked the US because of our military presence in Saudi Arabia, his holy land, and it was only after that explanation failed to garner him much support among Arabs that he added a broadside of other reasons ranging from Crusaders corrupting Islam and stealing Arab oil to the old tried and true formula that Arab leaders who provide nothing but pain for their followers have used, claiming he was protecting Islam from Israel.

 

[Truthmatters]

Do you often start threads and just abandone them?

Abandon them?

Dude everyone here posts threads and then they fall by the wayside.

If you would PRODUCE the evidence of the thread and what you are talking about I can go back and tell you hwat you want to know.


I think you may not be able to prove what you claim and that is why you are not linking me back to it.

 

[Epsilon Delta]

I know. I so love feigned righteous indignation.

I'm feigning NOTHING, Jillian. I AM rightfully indignated by the assumption that all of us who don't live in fortress America are ruled by dictators, and have no right to speak on the international stage- an assumption that I accused Xenophon of holding but that he never bothered to reject (which leads me to think that's what he really believes it).

Even moreso, I find it only a little but curious that Americans claim that the UN somehow is "run by dictators" and that the UN supports "the rights of dictators" while at the same time say NOTHING about their OWN GOVERNMENT setting up DICTATORSHIPS. I mean, if you were really that upset about dictatorships calling the shots, I'd sure as hell think that one way to end that would be to stop FUNDING AND ARMING THEM, huh?

But no matter, I know that nobody is going to respond to that. Obviously we should condemn the UN for sitting dictators why praise the US for... sitting dictators.

Furthermore,

I think the UN serves a valuable purpose.

What valuable purpose is that? Maybe you can instruct your good friend Xenophon on it, and he'll learn something. (And I say that knowing full well that the your valuable purpose might be very different from mine).

Until then, I'll continue to expect my question being answered: On what facts and with what criteria can anyone claim that Muslim states somehow run the United Nations? The UN has exactly 191 member states. There are NO MORE THAN 54 majority Muslim countries, of which there NO MORE THAN 24 Arab states. Even assuming that Muslim countries always vote in block for every issue (which is intself a somewhat ludicruous assumption but we'll let it slide), that's no more than 28% of the vote in the General Assembly (incidentally, Muslims are also about 28% of the world's population). Of these 54 states not ONE has a permanent seat at the Security Council. Not ONE has veto power over any decision. Not ONE has the economic muscle to fund the UN in any significant way. SoOoOoOoOo, I don't know know. Maybe I really AM stupid! [It'll be funny when Xenophon decides to ignore my entire post to quote this and say "Yes you are" and say nothing else] But this doesn't make any sense. Someone should surely be able to shed some light on it.

Now I imagine (I have to imagine, since the deathly enemy of the UN- Xenophon - refuses to speak his mind on the subject) that the "evidence" of this is the fact that basically every resolution calling on Israel to cease aggression passes. That certainly MUST mean that Arabs are in control of the UN! There is no other explanation for something so dastardly! Right? That is the reasoning behind this claim. But these resolutions don't pass with 28%. In fact, they don't pass with 50, or 60, or 70%. These resolutions, when you look at the numbers, are passed by virtually every single delegation, except the US, Israel, and usually one or two pacific island states that depend on assistance. I'm just putting this out there- maybe, just maybe everyone else agrees that they have to stop aggressing their neighbors and the people they occupy. I'm not saying that they should, no, no, no, I'm not saying they should. that is a completely different discussion. That's not the point in the least. All I'm saying is that maybe it's not the the UN is 'hijacked' by Arabs... Just that no other country agrees with the American and Israeli position. Call me crazy, but it could be true!

So maybe there we can find the real reason why the UN is so useless in some eyes: It shows that a lot (sometimes even a majority) of the world's population doesn't agree with your position. What right do they have? Furthermore, this is the General Assembly, a body with absolutely no power to do anything. Therefore, the question you guys are asking is "What right do they have to even be allowed to voice their disagreement?" (Since voicing is all that can be done at all in the General Assembly). Of course, this is only asked when the majority disproves of US or Israeli action, therefore really what the question is "If they disagree with us, what right do they have to even be allowed to speak?"

I guess that is one way to look at the world. "If you disagree with me, I will not pay attention to you." Just judging by this thread, this is appears to be way of life for Xenophon.

 

[Gord]

Yes. Wait until she tells you to go to another, unspecified thread to find more info you are to link to.

I am not surprised. In my dealings with her I have found her to be a weasel extraordinaire...