Unequal distribution of wealth

[bigrebnc1775]

You call me retarded when post a quote that proves my point?

it must have went over your head.

Highlighting the word 'collective' doesn't mean anything, dolt.

It's right there in the name: bureaucratic collectivism.

And there are no 'officials' in a communist system save for those who are elected.

Stalin and his lackeys established themselves as the new ruling class.

Just as Schachtman described.

Sugar coating shit doesn't change the fact it's still shit. However I did highlight this part
Local communist officials were given instructions to confiscate kulaks property.

 

[shintao]

George Bush ran under the Republican name. He is a confessed war criminal who approved the use of practices that were ruled illegal after 'Nam.

Another republican compared people on unemployment to stray dogs.


You still think republicanism is a good thing?


Of course, you probably don't know what republicanism is, either.

Confessed eh? Then why isn't he in Jail? Impeached? Sorry. Your Bushwhacking blather is getting dull and boring.

Oh, you have to be impeached or jailed to be a war criminal? You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. That is like saying Bin Laden is not a terrorist. TSK!!

 

[JBeukema]

It's amazing how willfully retarded you are.

You are a very disturbed person. You have no concept of what socialism is nor what it leads to.

Really?


The working man in a nation with socialist reforms:

The labouring class in a nation without such reforms (or with no enforcement of them);

Metro Group Linked to Horrific Sweatshop Conditions in Bangladesh - The National Labor Committee



Dirty Clothes - The National Labor Committee

China's Youth Meet Microsoft - The National Labor Committee





I'm sure as hell glad I live in a nation that's seen socialist reforms.

Countries that use OR USED the socialist systems
U.S.S.R.
Nazi Germany
Cuba
North Korea
China

That's funny as hell. Again, go forth and read. I recommend Schactman as a starting point.

bureaucratic collectivist oligarchy =/= socislism.


Google: Anti-Stalinist Socialists

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/121506-the-difference-between-communism-and-socialism.html

 

[JBeukema]

George Bush ran under the Republican name. He is a confessed war criminal who approved the use of practices that were ruled illegal after 'Nam.

Another republican compared people on unemployment to stray dogs.


You still think republicanism is a good thing?


Of course, you probably don't know what republicanism is, either.

Confessed eh? Then why isn't he in Jail? Impeached? Sorry. Your Bushwhacking blather is getting dull and boring.

Oh, you have to be impeached or jailed to be a war criminal? You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. That is like saying Bin Laden is not a terrorist. TSK!!

Guess Pol Pot doesn't count...

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's amazing how willfully retarded you are.

Really?


The working man in a nation with socialist reforms:

The labouring class in a nation without such reforms (or with no enforcement of them);

Metro Group Linked to Horrific Sweatshop Conditions in Bangladesh - The National Labor Committee



Dirty Clothes - The National Labor Committee

China's Youth Meet Microsoft - The National Labor Committee





I'm sure as hell glad I live in a nation that's seen socialist reforms.


That's funny as hell. Again, go forth and read. I recommend Schactman as a starting point.

bureaucratic collectivist oligarchy =/= socislism.


Google: Anti-Stalinist Socialists

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/121506-the-difference-between-communism-and-socialism.html

Another attempt at sugar coating shit, NICE TRY BUT YOU CAN'T SUGAR COAT SHIT BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYES BE SHIT.
You want to live in a communist system go ahead this is a free country for now I will not stop you But I will stop any attaempt to make this country a communist country.

 

[JBeukema]

It's amazing how willfully retarded you are.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/politics/121506-the-difference-between-communism-and-socialism.html

Another attempt at sugar coating shit, NICE TRY BUT YOU CAN'T SUGAR COAT SHIT BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYES BE SHIT.

Then i shan't sprinkle sugar upon your posts any longer.

You want to live in a communist system go ahead

Dear boy, you don't know how to read, do you?

But I will stop any attaempt to make this country a communist country.

We live in a socialist society.



















be grateful.

 

[The Rabbi]

It's amazing how willfully retarded you are.

Another attempt at sugar coating shit, NICE TRY BUT YOU CAN'T SUGAR COAT SHIT BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYES BE SHIT.

Then i shan't sprinkle sugar upon your posts any longer.

You want to live in a communist system go ahead

Dear boy, you don't know how to read, do you?

But I will stop any attaempt to make this country a communist country.

We live in a socialist society.



















be grateful.

WTF are you doing posting here, you hypocrite?? There are children starving in Africa. Did you get that? CHILDREN STARVING IN AFRICA. Go make them a sandwich or something.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's amazing how willfully retarded you are.

Another attempt at sugar coating shit, NICE TRY BUT YOU CAN'T SUGAR COAT SHIT BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYES BE SHIT.

Then i shan't sprinkle sugar upon your posts any longer.

You want to live in a communist system go ahead

Dear boy, you don't know how to read, do you?

But I will stop any attaempt to make this country a communist country.

We live in a socialist society.



















be grateful.

If my post was shit you would have something. but you are defending communism and socialism as if they are something good. The only thing that I know that has come oiut of socialism and communism is death and failure.

 

[The Rabbi]

If my post was shit you would have something. but you are defending communism and socialism as if they are something good. The only thing that I know that has come oiut of socialism and communism is death and failure.

Communism has only brought death and misery to millions of people.

 

[Gadawg73]

I have a man cave in the basement of my home. Football memorabilia from me and my son, fishing pictures, game balls, trophies and large screen TVs, bar, etc.
I paid for a lot of the stuff other than the memorabilia with cash.
I earned it and no one else deserves it or any of my cash.
If someone tried to break in there tonight I would blow their sorry ass to kingdom come.
I try to stop anyone that tries to steal from me in any way. I hate folks like that more than I hate the QBs I used to chase. Hell, I hated the QB on the teams I played on but not as bad as moochers.
I treat the IRS and all others that want to take my hard earned wealth of any kind the same way.
If you want to redistribute cash then have at it with YOUR cash.
Leave me and my cash the hell alone.

 

[Cuyo]

I have a man cave in the basement of my home. Football memorabilia from me and my son, fishing pictures, game balls, trophies and large screen TVs, bar, etc.
I paid for a lot of the stuff other than the memorabilia with cash.
I earned it and no one else deserves it or any of my cash.
If someone tried to break in there tonight I would blow their sorry ass to kingdom come.
I try to stop anyone that tries to steal from me in any way. I hate folks like that more than I hate the QBs I used to chase. Hell, I hated the QB on the teams I played on but not as bad as moochers.
I treat the IRS and all others that want to take my hard earned wealth of any kind the same way.
If you want to redistribute cash then have at it with YOUR cash.
Leave me and my cash the hell alone.

You feel that way because you don't get it. I have no clue what you did to earn "Your cash," but regardless, it was dependent entirely on government commons.

Incidentally, the intrinsic "Value" of your cash is inextricably linked to the government as well. Without government infrastructure, your cash would be worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. You'd have to find a guy desperate for kindling in order to trade it for anything of value.

 

[Gadawg73]

I have a man cave in the basement of my home. Football memorabilia from me and my son, fishing pictures, game balls, trophies and large screen TVs, bar, etc.
I paid for a lot of the stuff other than the memorabilia with cash.
I earned it and no one else deserves it or any of my cash.
If someone tried to break in there tonight I would blow their sorry ass to kingdom come.
I try to stop anyone that tries to steal from me in any way. I hate folks like that more than I hate the QBs I used to chase. Hell, I hated the QB on the teams I played on but not as bad as moochers.
I treat the IRS and all others that want to take my hard earned wealth of any kind the same way.
If you want to redistribute cash then have at it with YOUR cash.
Leave me and my cash the hell alone.

You feel that way because you don't get it. I have no clue what you did to earn "Your cash," but regardless, it was dependent entirely on government commons.

Incidentally, the intrinsic "Value" of your cash is inextricably linked to the government as well. Without government infrastructure, your cash would be worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. You'd have to find a guy desperate for kindling in order to trade it for anything of value.

Dependent entirely on government?
No.
How is giving my cash to those that refuse to work, are weatlthy seniors that demand I pay for their health care, studying the habits of the elderly in Hawaii (as well as billions more in such ear mark expenditures) and the interest on the debt which is now 40% of all dollars spent "government infrastructure"?
Hate to bust your bubble there Moe but there is NO $ now for the much needed repairs to infrastructure. Most of the $$ spent these days is a transfer payment and never for any brick and mortar infrastructure. The transfer is from the taxpayer to the government and then to another citizen. 1/2 of the entire budget is Medicare and social security.
I get it as I own 3 corporations.
The problem is SPENDING, not revenue.
I sort of agree with your last statement. However, my cash is a direct reflection of MY LABOR. Working in the free market, NOT government, brings me my cash.
Government never provides any service or product UNLESS someone has worked hard for their cash and a portion is sent to them.
Never.
The value of my $ is linked to the government as you state. The more government we have and the more cash they take from citizens the less value that cash has in the free market.
More $$ to government = less $$ in the free market for capital expansion, job growth and investment.
Please tell me oh wise one: How do I hire more employees in my businesses if I am sending more and more $$ as taxes to government?
It doesn't work that way Moe. Been doing it 30 years and the lower the tax rate the more folks get hired to work.

 

[Londoner]

Ironically, the OP has not provided any evidence for his extremely vague generalization.

I have never seen any respectable thinker on the American Left call for the equal distribution of wealth. This sounds like talk radio nonsense.

Here is what I have seen: a desire to return to a system where the compensation of workers is tied to economic growth. This desire is based largely on a recognition that economy requires a certain level of middle class demand, i.e., the middle class is too big to fail.

Some history: Starting with Reagan, middle class earning power stagnated, while the gains on top exploded to unprecedented levels. The mechanisms that tied worker compensation (wages and benefits) to worker productivity (economic growth) had been destroyed. The belief was that if the wealthy accumulated even more wealth, there would be a magical multiplier effect of jobs and middle class benefits ("trickle down economics"). When this failed to happen -- when the jobs started to flow not down but to China and India -- the American system faced a structural flaw: the economy required massive amounts of middle class consumption ("demand"), but it no longer had the fundamentals (solid wages and benefits) to drive consumption. The money that used to go to the middle class during the postwar years was now going upward in the form of cheaper operation costs (aka cheaper labor).

How did our legislators respond to this collapse of middle class demand? Answer: they created the largest credit economy in history. Starting in the late 80s, Americans received a tsunami of credit offers. The middle class would, for the next 30 years, keep the economy afloat with an endless array of gimmicky financing options. This strategy worked for a while. But it has one central flaw. You can't borrow forever.

Anybody calling for equal distribution doesn't understand the degree to which an efficient, productive economy requires proper incentives. If you pay people not to work, they won't work. If you reward people for not working hard, they won't work hard. But, if your distribution system awards billions to hedge fund managers, while not paying hard factory and retail workers enough to survive and consume, your economy (which depends on consumption) will eventually die . . . when the credit runs out. This is why FDR created mechanisms which assured that worker compensation was tied to economic growth, so that workers were compensated enough to drive the economy with their consumption. And what happens when the middle class has money to spend? Capital is forced to add even more jobs in order to capture that demand. (See the 50s and 60s, when the New Deal reached its apex and America saw its greatest economic growth. Under progressive policies, the American middle class became the most powerful consumption engine in world history)

What the talk radio Right doesn't understand is this: if the money doesn't trickle down -- if economic growth and prosperity only goes to the few -- than the disparity in wealth distribution is a problem. -not because of fairness or justice (which is a Marxian pipe dream), but because they economy dies when the middle class cannot afford to buy what they make. The economy dies when the upper class has more money than Wall Street can handle, leading to the invention of crazy Hedge Funds and ponzi Derivatives schemes. We don't want money pouring into the speculative, phantom economy; we want it pouring into the real economy -- and that is why we want the middle class to be solvent. -because they actually spend their money in the real economy.

But this is all besides the point. America has become Rome. The wealth on top has corrupted and destroyed the political system, which is bombarded with billions of lobbying dollars every year. 2008 was the symbolic end of this great nation. It was looted beyond repair.

 

[Gadawg73]

Ironically, the OP has not provided any evidence for his extremely vague generalization.

I have never seen any respectable thinker on the American Left call for the equal distribution of wealth. This sounds like talk radio nonsense.

Here is what I have seen: a desire to return to a system where the compensation of workers is tied to economic growth. This desire is based largely on a recognition that economy requires a certain level of middle class demand, i.e., the middle class is too big to fail.

Some history: Starting with Reagan, middle class earning power stagnated, while the gains on top exploded to unprecedented levels. The mechanisms that tied worker compensation (wages and benefits) to worker productivity (economic growth) had been destroyed. The belief was that if the wealthy accumulated even more wealth, there would be a magical multiplier effect of jobs and middle class benefits ("trickle down economics"). When this failed to happen -- when the jobs started to flow not down but to China and India -- the American system faced a structural flaw, that is, the economy required massive amounts of middle class consumption ("demand"), but it no longer had the fundamentals (solid wages and benefits) to drive consumption. The money that used to go to the middle class during the postwar years was now going upward in the form of cheaper operation costs (aka cheaper labor).

How did our legislators respond to this collapse of middle class demand? Answer: they created the largest credit economy in history. Starting in the late 80s, Americans received a tsunami of credit offers. The middle class would, for the next 30 years, keep the economy afloat with an endless array of gimmicky financing options. This strategy worked for a while. But it has one central flaw. You can't borrow forever.

Anybody calling for equal distribution doesn't understand the degree to which an efficient, productive economy requires proper incentives. If you pay people not to work, they won't. If you reward people for not working hard, they won't work hard. However, if your distribution system awards billions to hedge fund managers, while not paying hard factory and retail workers enough to survive and consume, your economy (which depends on consumption) will eventually die . . . when the credit runs out. This is why FDR created mechanisms which assured that worker compensation was tied to economic growth, so that workers were compensated enough to drive the economy with their consumption. And what happens when the middle class has money to spend? Capital is forced to add even more jobs in order to capture that demand. (See the 50s and 60s, when the New Deal reached its apex and America saw its greatest economic growth. Under progressive policies, the American middle class became the most powerful consumption engine in world history)

What the talk radio Right doesn't understand is this: if the money doesn't trickle down -- if economic growth and prosperity only goes to the few -- than the disparity in wealth distribution is a problem. -not because of fairness or justice (which is a Marxian pipe dream), but because they economy dies when the middle class cannot afford to buy what they make. The economy dies when the upper class has more money than Wall Street can handle, leading to the invention of crazy Hedge Funds and ponzi Derivatives schemes. America has become Rome. The wealth on top has corrupted and destroyed the political system, which is bombarded with billions of lobbying dollars every year. 2008 was the symbolic end of this great nation. It was looted beyond repair.

The compensation of the worker is tied to how much his labor is worth in the market.
If you are a master craftsman of horse carriages, what is the demand for your services?
I do not listen to the talking heads on talk radio. They do not answer to the electorate and I could care less what they spout.
The days of our middle class blue collar worker with a high school diploma demanding 60K a year for a job that a Mexican or Chinese man does for 20K a year are over.
Unless you favor socialism over the free market.
We heard the same rumblings when the agrarian society was losing ground and the industrial revolution was taking workers from that sector. Farmers had competition from large farming operations and the workers were leaving the farms for the jobs that the free market DEMANDED. Now we have moved to the information age and many still want to live in the past and compete with the low wage bliecollar jobs that are gone forever.
The fact is Americans have become fat and lazy and expect a middleclass income without having to compete in the world market. China has MORE honor students in engineering and science than we have COLLEGE STUDENTS TOTAL.
Time to get off our ass and get to educating ourselves to compete IN THE MODERN WORLD.
The horse and buggy days are over.

 

[The Rabbi]

Other than the fact that a master carriage maker probably makes a really good living (there aren't many and people who want one can pay top dollar, like a saddle maker) the post is spot on.
Compensation for labor depends on the market demand for labor. We live in a global market, hence labor costs are globalized. Get used to it.

 

[Londoner]

The days of our middle class blue collar worker with a high school diploma demanding 60K a year for a job that a Mexican or Chinese man does for 20K a year are over.

I think you have stumbled on the crux of the matter. America constructed a consumption economy based on a level of middle class compensation that no longer exists. The American worker must now compete with Asian sweat shops. The new 3rd world'ized American labor force cannot afford to meet the demand requirements of our economy, which is why we started to over-rely on credit.

Some interesting things to note. During the Cold War and War on Terrorism, America claimed to be more evolved than the 3rd world countries it was invading (Vietnam, Nicaragua, Iraq) partly because our workers had a higher standard of living. Who knew that Reaganomics, by delivering cheap labor to capital, would undermine the very middle class that separated us from nations with only two classes: a small group of wealthy owners surrounded by deeply impoverished low-wage workers without benefits or political power. Does the Tea Party understand what this country is going to look like once the middle class is gone and our labor markets resemble that of the 3rd world? Do they understand what massive poverty is going to do to this country?

Certainly you don't believe we have a free market. And certainly you don't believe that capital wants a free market. The market craves Washington intervention and Washington contracts. Indeed, we have a highly interventionist state which protects the interest of capital, but not labor, e.g., the owners of Eli Lilly are protected from foreign drug makers (but their workers are not). This allows Eli to raise prices without ever having to be disciplined by competition. Consequently, people can buy the same drugs anywhere else in the world for a tenth of the cost, and now other advanced countries like Germany have larger middle classes. Because of our interventionist state on behalf of the wealthy, profits in health care function inversely to efficiency. The American Government is a monopoly protectorate. Through a corrupt system of subsides, no-bid contracts, and bailouts . . . risks are socialized while profits are privatized. The only sector of the population subject to market discipline is the poor, who must now compete with the 3rd world. Reaganomics did little more than import poverty for the masses, while bestowing aristocratic wealth and power on the few. This is what happens when you give cheap labor to capital. None of this was hard to predict. The Great Middle Class that defined America is gone. The poor people being manipulated by the Republican Party are not going to like what takes its place.

 

[JBeukema]

Another attempt at sugar coating shit, NICE TRY BUT YOU CAN'T SUGAR COAT SHIT BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYES BE SHIT.

Then i shan't sprinkle sugar upon your posts any longer.




Dear boy, you don't know how to read, do you?

But I will stop any attaempt to make this country a communist country.

We live in a socialist society.



















be grateful.

WTF are you doing posting here, you hypocrite?? There are children starving in Africa. Did you get that? CHILDREN STARVING IN AFRICA. Go make them a sandwich or something.

Did you forget to take your medication?

 

[JBeukema]

Another attempt at sugar coating shit, NICE TRY BUT YOU CAN'T SUGAR COAT SHIT BECAUSE IT WILL ALWAYES BE SHIT.

Then i shan't sprinkle sugar upon your posts any longer.




Dear boy, you don't know how to read, do you?

But I will stop any attaempt to make this country a communist country.

We live in a socialist society.



















be grateful.

If my post was shit you would have something. but you are defending communism and socialism as if they are something good. The only thing that I know that has come oiut of socialism and communism is death and failure.

We live in a socialist society.

I, for one, am glad we do.

8 hour work days

minimum wage

sick and maternity leave

mandatory workplace safety standards

assistance for our sick, the elderly, and veterans

public education, transportation, and libraries- imperfect as they are, they're still a huge improvement over their absence








Thank goodness we're fortunate to live in a socialist nation after the unions of old did most of the heavy lifting for us.

 

[JBeukema]

The compensation of the worker is tied to how much his labor is worth in the market.

Tell it to the slave labourers in the sweatshops making your football jerseys.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Compensation for labor depends on the market demand for labor. We live in a global market, hence labor costs are globalized. Get used to it.

wave the white flag you traitorous bastard