Unequal distribution of wealth

[Cuyo]

I asked and gave an example, the fact that you simply call me a "maroon" is not much of an answer.

without the government nothing has value, sounds Marxist to me. Just because you may or may not be smart enough to know you have been taught and practice Marxism does not mean your not. Not accusing but simply pointing out how your response was that of a moron or a marxist.

Your attempting character assassination in response to a well thought argument, rather than trying to negate the argument. It'll come as no surprise where you learned that tactic.

I didn't say "Nothing has value," I said your "Cash" would be useless, which is true.

An opinion that all government is not automatically omnipresent and evil does not a Marxist make.

Character assassination, wow, slow down, I was not trying to "negate" your argument, I just read one of my books, this one a collection of Marxist writings, they used the term, "intrinsic value". I thought maybe there was a connection, did a google, cut/paste, asked the question.

Just rattling your cage to see if you know your a Marxist or if you like Marxism, I am not saying your a Marxist, I am not in much of a mood to investigate your posts to see which way you lean, just looking for a quick answer.

I figured if I put a bit out there maybe someone with more knowledge would help me out if they saw our exchange.

Anyhow, carry on, forget you saw my post. I may get back to your posts later, I did not mean to hurt a well thought out post. Just seeing Marxist everywhere I look. You know they do post in the threads.

These are not Chomsky ideas by any chance, I like Chomsky less than I like a Marxist.

Ok. I'm a Democrat. There are no Marxists. On this board, yes maybe, but not in government. The people in government being accused of being "Marxists" are generally very moderate Democrats, BHO for example.

Frankly, I don't know why the term "Marxist" exists, or what one must proclaim to be considered a "Marxist." We never talk about "Lockeists" or "Hobbesists" or "Rooseveltists," so why "Marxists?" And what threshold must you cross to be categorized as such? Marx was neither evil nor stupid, and he had much to say that made sense. Does that statement make me a Marxist? All the great philosophers had something good to say.

Re wealth concentration (which is the topic of the thread after all), it is probably the single biggest threat to our Republic. When a ruling class possesses so much control over the wealth of the nation, they tend to gain control of the means of controlling the opinions of the underclass, hence they get them to elect people who will benefit their cause - Which is more for themselves, less for everybody else. Jefferson spoke of this phenomenon some 250 years ago, before Karl Marx was even born. You think it ain't happening right here, right now? Better look again. We got people voting against their own self interests and chastising people who disagree with them as "Un-American."

 

[Tank]

It's not distributed, It's earned

 

[mdn2000]

We live in a socialist society.

I, for one, am glad we do.

8 hour work days

minimum wage

sick and maternity leave

mandatory workplace safety standards

assistance for our sick, the elderly, and veterans

public education, transportation, and libraries- imperfect as they are, they're still a huge improvement over their absence








Thank goodness we're fortunate to live in a socialist nation after the unions of old did most of the heavy lifting for us.

Fuck the unions they are leechs on the American people.
Fuck the unions they are made up of communist trash
Fuck the unions because they make the price of products cost more than it really does.

So you actually think living in a socialist system is great for working condition? Now who's being delusional?

yes... fuck the unions...


Tell ya what. Go to the Appalachians or the Ozarks. Find some old company towns. Ask the elders about the times before the unions and mandated safety requirements.

Go to China and find a sweatshop. Look at the condition of the working class without socialist reforms. Look at the pollution in China

Amazing Pictures, Pollution in China | ChinaHush


See what happens when we let people 'vote with their wallet' in the 'free market' if they want clean water so that capitalism can make everything great.

Conditions of the Working-Class in England Index

Unions, I think they are a different bird today, they did play a big part in the past, not perfect, but unions resolved problems.Unions were needed by the people. Unions had nothing to do with socialism, just bad companies.

People stereotype so many things, the history of unions cannot be expressed in one simple sentence or a brief post.

 

[Cuyo]

It's not distributed, It's earned

Far more often, it's inherited.

 

[JBeukema]

You feel that way because you don't get it. I have no clue what you did to earn "Your cash," but regardless, it was dependent entirely on government commons.

Incidentally, the intrinsic "Value" of your cash is inextricably linked to the government as well. Without government infrastructure, your cash would be worth about as much as the paper it's printed on. You'd have to find a guy desperate for kindling in order to trade it for anything of value.

Correct me if I am wrong,



Your Marxist, correct, that is what your speaking of.

You Just Might Be a Marxist

But of course, a little thought reveals this to be nonsense. Nothing has intrinsic value. Absent a person to value it, nothing has value at all. And the value of things is entirely subjective. If it weren’t, no trade would occur. Every voluntary exchange occurs because two people have something to trade, and each person places a higher value on the other person’s object than their own. If they both valued both equally, there would be no point in swapping. Even though there is a price denominated in dollars on an item in a store, that doesn’t mean that’s what it is worth. It won’t move off the shelves unless its price is lower than its value to some of the customers. If it is higher than the value to everyone, it will not be sold.

Both of these notions undermine the logic of the free market, and when they are implemented into policy and law, as they have been over the past century or so, the growth of wealth of the nation, and sometimes its absolute value, is accordingly reduced. And while they are intrinsically Marxist notions, many hold them who do not consider themselves Marxists.

You're wrong.

Grow up.









"Marxist." What a maroon.

Are you seriously advocating the labour/intrinsic theory of value?

 

[Cuyo]

Correct me if I am wrong,



Your Marxist, correct, that is what your speaking of.

You Just Might Be a Marxist

You're wrong.

Grow up.









"Marxist." What a maroon.

Are you seriously advocating the labour/intrinsic theory of value?

Who, me?

All I said was that "Cash" had no value outside of the framework of a government that values it. What's a piece of paper worth if nobody says it's worth something?

 

[Tank]

It's not distributed, It's earned

Far more often, it's inherited.

It was still earned by someone.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

It's not distributed, It's earned

Far more often, it's inherited.

It was still earned by someone.

Most all philosophy deals with the questions of fairness and who deserves what.

Stop making simple statements and make an argument.


or

 

[bigrebnc1775]

You're wrong.

Grow up.









"Marxist." What a maroon.

Are you seriously advocating the labour/intrinsic theory of value?

Who, me?

All I said was that "Cash" had no value outside of the framework of a government that values it. What's a piece of paper worth if nobody says it's worth something?

If thats your idea of what identifies value. then nothing has any value not even gold. Which may be a shock to you but I agree.
Water Guns, ammo and food. in that order.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not distributed, It's earned

Far more often, it's inherited.

millionaire-myths: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.

 

[The Rabbi]

Tell it to the slave labourers in the sweatshops making your football jerseys.

You mean the ones who line up to apply for those jobs because they represent the best alternative for earning a living?

By that measure, child prostitution and slavery are awesome. After all, so many slaves stayed on the plantation instead of taking their chances after leaving and so many families in the world sell their children into sexual slavery as a means of earning a living.


And it must be awesome to sleep under a bridge, since so many people have slept under a bridge instead of in the middle of a street.

Why are you wasting time posting here? There are children starving in Africa. Did you get that? CHILDREN STARVING IN AFRICA.
Go make them a sandwich or something and STFU.

And did you really compare comparatively high wage factory work to child prostitution??

 

[JBeukema]

'comparatively high wage factory work'?

Newsroom - The National Labor Committee

 

[The Rabbi]

'comparatively high wage factory work'?

Newsroom - The National Labor Committee

yeah, like: It beats starving in the jungle. Not, wow that's low compared to what a U.S. SEIU executive makes.

 

[JBeukema]

You've never read a history book, have you?

 

[The Rabbi]

You've never read a history book, have you?

Many.
You've never taken an economics course or read a book in the subject, have you?

AND GO FEED STARVING CHILDREN IN AFRICA! For Pete's sake, they're hungry and you're wasting time posting nonsense.

 

[Cuyo]

Are you seriously advocating the labour/intrinsic theory of value?

Who, me?

All I said was that "Cash" had no value outside of the framework of a government that values it. What's a piece of paper worth if nobody says it's worth something?

If thats your idea of what identifies value. then nothing has any value not even gold. Which may be a shock to you but I agree.
Water Guns, ammo and food. in that order.

You are correct. Cash, gold, ruples, what have you, have no value of their own. An axe, a brick, a cow, all have value. Cash only serves as a medium among which objects are valued, thereby traded. The problem with cash is that unlike in a barter system, a person can accumulate far more than he could ever use. The goldsmith method of economics causes the supply of cash to balloon far beyond the "Value" of the goods in circulation.

This is a double edged sword. Yes, more money in circulation means, in the short run, that everyone in the society can have "More stuff." The problem is, when the economy becomes bloated and then contracts, it's the underclass that loses their "Stuff." The upper classes do not lose any "Stuff," their losses are all on paper. In a fervor to re-instate their paper "Wealth," they pillage what they can from the lower classes and unwittingly dismantle the lower classes that made them wealthy in the first place. End result of laissez-faire capitalism; Class revolution.

These are not new ideas, they're as old as philosophy itself. And it is what happened in recent times in this country. The recession is not a result of government over-involvement; In fact the opposite is true.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You mean the ones who line up to apply for those jobs because they represent the best alternative for earning a living?

By that measure, child prostitution and slavery are awesome. After all, so many slaves stayed on the plantation instead of taking their chances after leaving and so many families in the world sell their children into sexual slavery as a means of earning a living.


And it must be awesome to sleep under a bridge, since so many people have slept under a bridge instead of in the middle of a street.

Why are you wasting time posting here? There are children starving in Africa. Did you get that? CHILDREN STARVING IN AFRICA.
Go make them a sandwich or something and STFU.

And did you really compare comparatively high wage factory work to child prostitution??

Jews are dying in Israel, too. But I am not joining the IDF.

Jimmy Carter's mom joined the JFK Peace Corps.

Child prostitution? Get your head out of your ass. We all know Rabbi's are like Catholic Priests. It's creep when you mention child prostitution

 

[JBeukema]

Do you even know what socialism is?

 

[The Rabbi]

By that measure, child prostitution and slavery are awesome. After all, so many slaves stayed on the plantation instead of taking their chances after leaving and so many families in the world sell their children into sexual slavery as a means of earning a living.


And it must be awesome to sleep under a bridge, since so many people have slept under a bridge instead of in the middle of a street.

Why are you wasting time posting here? There are children starving in Africa. Did you get that? CHILDREN STARVING IN AFRICA.
Go make them a sandwich or something and STFU.

And did you really compare comparatively high wage factory work to child prostitution??

Jews are dying in Israel, too. But I am not joining the IDF.

Jimmy Carter's mom joined the JFK Peace Corps.

Child prostitution? Get your head out of your ass. We all know Rabbi's are like Catholic Priests. It's creep when you mention child prostitution

Did you post a pic of a starving child to make a political point?
Did you say Jews are dying to make a political point?
I see the mention of child prostitution brought you to post here. Maybe you need mental help?

 

[boedicca]

It's not distributed, It's earned

Far more often, it's inherited.

millionaire-myths: Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance

2. Millionaires Just Inherited Their Money
According to Thomas J. Stanley's book, "The Millionaire Next Door: The Surprising Secrets of America's Wealthy," only 20% of millionaires inherited their riches. The other 80% are what you'd call nouveau riche: first-generation millionaires who earned their cash on their own. Many millionaires simply worked, saved, and lived within their means to generate their wealth -- think accountants and managers: regular people going to work every day. Most millionaires didn't get their riches overnight when a rich relative died -- they worked for the money.

I read that book a few years ago.

One of the traits in common that many TMNDs have is one of living below their means and saving money. Driving older cars, not keeping up with the Joneses, using it up and wearing it out...etc.

It's sad to see our society now punish those who show such responsibility and self-discipline.