Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent

[Gadawg73]

One thing left off here (same with CEO's) - is their salary is a small part of the total package.
Like CEO's it is not uncommon to receive full compensation for the rest of their lives after leaving office in as little as 10 years.

Still, the relative difference between a union executive's terminal benefit package and the kind of bonuses most CEO's receive is so vast it is pointless to attempt a comparison. Even if a union boss leaves with a 100% salary and benefit package in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, how does that compare with some CEOs walking away with multi-million dollar bonuses year after year?

For the most part the salaries of union executives and the rank and file membership are in acceptable proportion, whereas the average CEO's compensation is vastly excessive in comparison to that of their workers.

Who determines what is excessive or not?
You or the shareholders?
Or government? God help us. Take a look at what they have done with union contracts.
Almost a trillion in unfunded government union pension benefits nationwide.
Union influence is a bad idea. de Toqueville was right. As soon as folks can vote themselves a paycheck and/or government contracts that are not in line with market conditions the country will bankrupt.
And please tell me where do the folks that are paying the tab, THE TAXPAYERS, have a say and a seat at the bargaining table?
CEOs negotiate their wages and benefits same as union folks do.
I hear only a socialist argument against the executives.
Class warfare at it's finest.

 

[JakeStarkey]

G is appears limited in terms of critical thinking, though I am glad he is aware of the term.

Let's see if he builds a case as he has advised to do so that we can have a decent, civil conversation.

 

[Gadawg73]

One thing left off here (same with CEO's) - is their salary is a small part of the total package.
Like CEO's it is not uncommon to receive full compensation for the rest of their lives after leaving office in as little as 10 years.

Still, the relative difference between a union executive's terminal benefit package and the kind of bonuses most CEO's receive is so vast it is pointless to attempt a comparison. Even if a union boss leaves with a 100% salary and benefit package in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, how does that compare with some CEOs walking away with multi-million dollar bonuses year after year?

For the most part the salaries of union executives and the rank and file membership are in acceptable proportion, whereas the average CEO's compensation is vastly excessive in comparison to that of their workers.

Because the owners of the company are taking all the risk. It's THEIR money that is on the line. If the company goes under, there goes the cash. Of course there are so called golden parachutes. These are large settlements negotiated by the individual when hired. Those are becoming fewer and farther between.
Years ago, top corp. brass were paid salaries. The stockholders said their wages were absurd. That they needed to be paid based on the performance of the company and the stock. WE DEMANDED THIS...Now most top level people are paid this way, what the class envy crowd does not acknowledge is that there are years where these people are paid very little. It varies.
Look, the left is using terms such as "profit" "corporation" "CEO" "Fair Share" and others for one reason. That is to gin up support for democrat candidates running on the class warfare "I will tax these people so you will feel better" platform.
It's nonsense. Democrats cannot run on their record of performance in office because they have not accomplished anything. In fact they have taken the country backward.
High tax low yield does not work in favor of the people.

You are talking economics. Jake and his troops have no clue about risk.

 

[Gadawg73]

G is appears limited in terms of critical thinking, though I am glad he is aware of the term.

Let's see if he builds a case as he has advised to do so that we can have a decent, civil conversation.

How much cash and life savings do YOU have at risk in the free market business world Jake?
How many people out there that are not your family DEPEND ON YOU every day to make a living?
How many hours do you devote each week to make sure the hundreds of thousands of dollars YOU EARNED and then put into your business to keep it going is not gobbled up by government rules, regulations and taxes?
How many folk do you employ Jake and how much exposure DO YOU HAVE in the free market?

I bet ZERO is your answer.
You ain't even close to the stadium, never have crossed the lines much less in the game.

 

[Gadawg73]

I laugh my ass off everytime I hear this "living wage" BS.
"A family of 5 can not live off the minimum wage, they deserve a living wage"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WAHT THE FUCK are mature adults having children making the minimum wage?
Personal responsibility has taken a back seat to "I deserve to be paid what I can live on"
INSTEAD OF I WILL BE PAID WHAT THE MARKET DEMANDS FOR MY SKILLS.
Americans have become fat and lazy and feel they are entitled to whatever they want.

That's the primary difference between the right and left in America these days. "Conservatives" go with individual initiative, responsibility, accountability, and productivity. "Liberals" look to government to put a chicken in every pot so to speak.

Labor is a commodity like anything else that goes into production. Labor is worth only as much as it produces in profits for the employer. The good employer will pay more to the employee who produces more profits. The bad employer who does not reward those who make him profits will not be able to hire or keep good people and his business will suffer.

The less profits that are made, the less money there will be to increase salaries, benefitts, or hire more people. A union that demands more in wages and benefits than the workers are producing in profits will cause fewer people to be hired and at worst can cause the business to go out of business. As there are no profits in government, there should be no public unions.

I remember when I was out of college and felt like since I was somebody BMOC there that everyone in the business world would also fall in line.
WAS NOT THE CASE!! They could have cared less.
Started at a law firm in the late 70s after a stint with a repo company legally stealing cars and then with a bail bondsman looking for bail jumpers. That got old quick so off to the law firm as a junior in house investigator in 1978.
I was the #3 investigator but included in this was 90% running errands for the big shot attorneys there. The #2 investigator was twice my age and turned his nose when asked to do the dirty work. In my spare time I helped other companies, mostly law firms, move within the 20 story building the office was located in. End of long story within 3 years I was the #1 investigator in that firm. Full detective license in 1982, MBA earned in 1985 and full agency detective license issued in 1985.
Still not afraid to get my hands dirty as just last month a woman that was represented by an attorney I have worked for 25 years for called and advised she had an order for this woman to retrieve many personal items and clothes from where she had lived before she left from abusive husband. Hired a guy and helped her move on a day I had little to do. Charged the law firm $250 and paid the help $50.
The old Marine officer, my Dad, taught me this work ethic.
God bless him as he died 2 years ago today!

 

[Uncensored2008]

Union Boss salaries- They have a lot in common with the people they represent






yes the 1%

Michael J. Sullivan, general president of the Sheet Metal Workers’ International Association
Salary: $1,043,023

Robert A. Scardelletti, international president of the Transportation Communications Union
Salary: $748,531

Newton B. Jones, president of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers
Salary: $607,022

Terence M. O’Sullivan, general president of the Laborers’ International Union of North America
Salary: $589,124

John T. Niccollai, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Union, Local 464A
Salary: $532,752

Gerald McEntee, international president of the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees
Salary: $512,369

And that's not even counting what they get in drug sales, protection rackets, and prostitution.

 

[Foxfyre]

I laugh my ass off everytime I hear this "living wage" BS.
"A family of 5 can not live off the minimum wage, they deserve a living wage"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
WAHT THE FUCK are mature adults having children making the minimum wage?
Personal responsibility has taken a back seat to "I deserve to be paid what I can live on"
INSTEAD OF I WILL BE PAID WHAT THE MARKET DEMANDS FOR MY SKILLS.
Americans have become fat and lazy and feel they are entitled to whatever they want.

That's the primary difference between the right and left in America these days. "Conservatives" go with individual initiative, responsibility, accountability, and productivity. "Liberals" look to government to put a chicken in every pot so to speak.

Labor is a commodity like anything else that goes into production. Labor is worth only as much as it produces in profits for the employer. The good employer will pay more to the employee who produces more profits. The bad employer who does not reward those who make him profits will not be able to hire or keep good people and his business will suffer.

The less profits that are made, the less money there will be to increase salaries, benefitts, or hire more people. A union that demands more in wages and benefits than the workers are producing in profits will cause fewer people to be hired and at worst can cause the business to go out of business. As there are no profits in government, there should be no public unions.

I remember when I was out of college and felt like since I was somebody BMOC there that everyone in the business world would also fall in line.
WAS NOT THE CASE!! They could have cared less.
Started at a law firm in the late 70s after a stint with a repo company legally stealing cars and then with a bail bondsman looking for bail jumpers. That got old quick so off to the law firm as a junior in house investigator in 1978.
I was the #3 investigator but included in this was 90% running errands for the big shot attorneys there. The #2 investigator was twice my age and turned his nose when asked to do the dirty work. In my spare time I helped other companies, mostly law firms, move within the 20 story building the office was located in. End of long story within 3 years I was the #1 investigator in that firm. Full detective license in 1982, MBA earned in 1985 and full agency detective license issued in 1985.
Still not afraid to get my hands dirty as just last month a woman that was represented by an attorney I have worked for 25 years for called and advised she had an order for this woman to retrieve many personal items and clothes from where she had lived before she left from abusive husband. Hired a guy and helped her move on a day I had little to do. Charged the law firm $250 and paid the help $50.
The old Marine officer, my Dad, taught me this work ethic.
God bless him as he died 2 years ago today!

Whether they know it comes from the classical liberalism of the Founders or not, it is the American work ethic that you describe that defines why America is the exceptional country that it is. It was that unique and first-time-tried concept of a people who governed themselves, who did not look to a monarch or other authoritarian government or a union boss to give them anything, and who rose and fell on their own merits and efforts. It was tough going for a lot of us who did a lot of grunge work at terrible wages in order to work ourselves into a living wage and enjoyable work. For those with the ability and the stamina, there were no barriers to prevent them acquiring success that was unthinkable to their ancesters.

These days the Left is doing their damdest to tear all that apart, to give government and big unions the power to lord it over everybody, assign us all the rights that we will have and what opportunities we will be allowed. I just hope there are enough of us left to turn that around and get back to the basics of liberty.

 

[JakeStarkey]

G won't reply to the facts, so we can assume he can't answer them,

Risk? I have been at risk my whole life, you crumb. Farm, dairy, ranch, military in combat arms, a dying first wife, a dying oldest daughter, businesses created from almost nothing and a song and prayer, employ more than a 120 regularly in four states and another 300 to 400 as needed, and have been very successful during the Great Recession because WE PREPARED FOR IT, BECAUSE WE ARE UNDERSTAND RISK.

And you worry about labor and unions cutting into your profit line. Listen up: you create a create product, you charge correctly for it, and you don't be afraid of making sure your employees are proud of being associated with it and aware that they are paid well for what they do.

Son, there is profit and greed and stupid greedy (and this is where I think you are).

You remind me of a lady I knew and liked who simply lost her mind when we, as trustees and board for a church school, did the salaries and wages for the school employees. She never really understood "the laborer is worthy of his wage" even though she was vestry and warden for her Episcopal Church.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Horseshit. They get the big ticket salaries when their companies Lose money.

Comrade Stalin, how much revenue would Oracle have if Larry Ellison had not been involved in the company?

Look, you're stupid as a fence post, it's why you're a communist - but Ellison built Oracle, without him, no one would get a dime from the company.

You fucking moron.

 

[Gadawg73]

G won't reply to the facts, so we can assume he can't answer them,

Risk? I have been at risk my whole life, you crumb. Farm, dairy, ranch, military in combat arms, a dying first wife, a dying oldest daughter, businesses created from almost nothing and a song and prayer, employ more than a 120 regularly in four states and another 300 to 400 as needed, and have been very successful during the Great Recession because WE PREPARED FOR IT, BECAUSE WE ARE UNDERSTAND RISK.

And you worry about labor and unions cutting into your profit line. Listen up: you create a create product, you charge correctly for it, and you don't be afraid of making sure your employees are proud of being associated with it and aware that they are paid well for what they do.

Son, there is profit and greed and stupid greedy (and this is where I think you are).

You remind me of a lady I knew and liked who simply lost her mind when we, as trustees and board for a church school, did the salaries and wages for the school employees. She never really understood "the laborer is worthy of his wage" even though she was vestry and warden for her Episcopal Church.

Son?
Who defines greed?
You, the government?
God help us Jake.
In the real world THE MARKET sets the price of labor, resources and the product.
I charge by the hour in my professional business and the demand for my services sets the price. Same for the employees as the fee system is tiered to the market. Some cases I give to someone young and charge less than half what I charge. Why? THE MARKET SETS THAT PRICE.
In my 2 other businesses I invest in real estate and again, the market sets what I make. Note that in both of those businesses I have not made ONE CENT IN 4 YEARS and since I have sold nothing and they are LLCs I have to carry the losses each year without being able to write off one cent of it until I have some income from them.
Do you believe businessmen just make up a price and ask for it because that is what they have to have to pay EMPLOYEES for it?
You need a basic course in Econ 101.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You can't help yourself, can you? I am very successful, I understand risk, and apparently I am far better at this than you.

The market is not god, G, don't you know? It is not the Game with a Rule Book. It is how you play the GAME itself that matters. You are a small-time professional, I get that. That you don't seem to understand how to market yourself and your services well is your problem, not mine. I am able to pay my employees well for two reasons: one, the outstanding quality of our products and services, and two, the management and directors are not uber greedy. I am sad for you that you are not good at this, but perhaps in time you will learn.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The point is not capitalism, munchkin, it is that Union bosses are far closer to those they represent than are the CEOs to the workers, and the Union bosses get far less than the CEOs in retirement and perks.

And you uber-corporatists want to shut off union influence? Look at what happened in WI. Walker, I think, will survive the 5th, but he has been kissing unions for the last three months, and will cozy up after the 5th. What a stupid guy.

Munchkin? Were you just thinking about those little treats from Dunkin Donuts? Though so. Because I am certain that term was not directed toward me. Union leadership have as little connection to the workers as the people in the board room at GE. So please stop the nonsense. Walker will win because the people are sick of the high wages and gold plated benefit packages for unionized public workers. The taxpayers are have spoken and they are going to speak again on June 5th. The DNC has pulled support from the race. This movement to rein in public worker unions is spreading across the nation. I knew this was going to happen. The taxpayers are tapped out. There is no more money to pay those wages and fund those benefits. Sorry, but public workers are just going to have to live with regular wages and benefits just like the rest of us.

Yep, spoon is a munchkin mind when it comes to unions, the law, and reality. Union leaders are far more connected to the rank and file than the great CEOs. Walker may win but will continue to kiss union ass. Nope, the movement has ground to halt and will be reversed state by state by true Americans.

Try as you may to goad me into a pissing contest, I ain't going for it.
Now I ask you, how so are union leaders more in touch with the workers?
I submit that union bosses are businessmen who work in office buildings with plsh offices the same as all other people in similar positions.
These people don't even drink from the same water fountains as the great unwashed masses.
Jake, you can spin this all you like.
Your descriptive is another indication that you people on the left cannot and will not tolerate other points of view.
Well, tough shit. You WILL NOT shut me down.

 

[thereisnospoon]

one thing left off here (same with ceo's) - is their salary is a small part of the total package.
Like ceo's it is not uncommon to receive full compensation for the rest of their lives after leaving office in as little as 10 years.

still, the relative difference between a union executive's terminal benefit package and the kind of bonuses most ceo's receive is so vast it is pointless to attempt a comparison. Even if a union boss leaves with a 100% salary and benefit package in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, how does that compare with some ceos walking away with multi-million dollar bonuses year after year?

For the most part the salaries of union executives and the rank and file membership are in acceptable proportion, whereas the average ceo's compensation is vastly excessive in comparison to that of their workers.

so?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Munchkin? Were you just thinking about those little treats from Dunkin Donuts? Though so. Because I am certain that term was not directed toward me. Union leadership have as little connection to the workers as the people in the board room at GE. So please stop the nonsense. Walker will win because the people are sick of the high wages and gold plated benefit packages for unionized public workers. The taxpayers are have spoken and they are going to speak again on June 5th. The DNC has pulled support from the race. This movement to rein in public worker unions is spreading across the nation. I knew this was going to happen. The taxpayers are tapped out. There is no more money to pay those wages and fund those benefits. Sorry, but public workers are just going to have to live with regular wages and benefits just like the rest of us.

Yep, spoon is a munchkin mind when it comes to unions, the law, and reality. Union leaders are far more connected to the rank and file than the great CEOs. Walker may win but will continue to kiss union ass. Nope, the movement has ground to halt and will be reversed state by state by true Americans.

Try as you may to goad me into a pissing contest, I ain't going for it.
Now I ask you, how so are union leaders more in touch with the workers?
I submit that union bosses are businessmen who work in office buildings with plsh offices the same as all other people in similar positions.
These people don't even drink from the same water fountains as the great unwashed masses.
Jake, you can spin this all you like.
Your descriptive is another indication that you people on the left cannot and will not tolerate other points of view.
Well, tough shit. You WILL NOT shut me down.

Of course union leaders are more in touch with their members than CEOs in the top of high buildings earning 800 times their yearly wages. The fact is the union leaders earn far less than the CEOSs, and their ratios of earnings to members is far, far less.

I want you to keep posting your nonsense, so the real narrative shines bright and true as the morning star. You people on the far reactionary right are crazy, most neo-corporatists are crazy, so you surely are not alone. And your silly ego will not let you stop posting,

 

[Unkotare]

Munchkin? Were you just thinking about those little treats from Dunkin Donuts? Though so. Because I am certain that term was not directed toward me. Union leadership have as little connection to the workers as the people in the board room at GE. So please stop the nonsense. Walker will win because the people are sick of the high wages and gold plated benefit packages for unionized public workers. The taxpayers are have spoken and they are going to speak again on June 5th. The DNC has pulled support from the race. This movement to rein in public worker unions is spreading across the nation. I knew this was going to happen. The taxpayers are tapped out. There is no more money to pay those wages and fund those benefits. Sorry, but public workers are just going to have to live with regular wages and benefits just like the rest of us.

Yep, spoon is a munchkin mind when it comes to unions, the law, and reality. Union leaders are far more connected to the rank and file than the great CEOs. Walker may win but will continue to kiss union ass. Nope, the movement has ground to halt and will be reversed state by state by true Americans.

Try as you may to goad me into a pissing contest, I ain't going for it.
Now I ask you, how so are union leaders more in touch with the workers?
I submit that union bosses are businessmen who work in office buildings with plsh offices the same as all other people in similar positions.
These people don't even drink from the same water fountains as the great unwashed masses.
Jake, you can spin this all you like.
Your descriptive is another indication that you people on the left cannot and will not tolerate other points of view.
Well, tough shit. You WILL NOT shut me down.

Don't expect any logic or reason from Jake-RubberNGlue-Fakey.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Of course

just as the salaries of Union bosses are substantially higher than the Union workers

It is just a matter of degress isn't it? For instance a worker might make 50k a year, his union boss, 250 k a year or 5 times as much, the CEO makes 2.5 million a year or 10 times as much as the head union guy.

What is it that the CEO does that is worth 50 times what a good worker makes? Besides being friends with the members of the board of directors.

How is it that you pick on the union boss making 5 times as much and working to get the worker 50k a year vs the CEO making 2.5 million a year and trying to cut wages.

You have a problem with workers making a living wage? Why?

The spin from you people is making the Earth dizzy.
Spin is the result of a losing argument.
The proof is in the facts. Union membership is shrinking. Down to about 8% of all US workers.
So we'll ask the pro union people on here, "how's that working out for ya?"
"Picking on"....That's funny.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Of course

just as the salaries of Union bosses are substantially higher than the Union workers

It is just a matter of degress isn't it? For instance a worker might make 50k a year, his union boss, 250 k a year or 5 times as much, the CEO makes 2.5 million a year or 10 times as much as the head union guy.

What is it that the CEO does that is worth 50 times what a good worker makes? Besides being friends with the members of the board of directors.

How is it that you pick on the union boss making 5 times as much and working to get the worker 50k a year vs the CEO making 2.5 million a year and trying to cut wages.

You have a problem with workers making a living wage? Why?

The spin from you people is making the Earth dizzy.
Spin is the result of a losing argument.
The proof is in the facts. Union membership is shrinking. Down to about 8% of all US workers.
So we'll ask the pro union people on here, "how's that working out for ya?"
"Picking on"....That's funny.

Yup, poor bosses being 'picked on' by the unions. One more serious recession, a new Democrat government and Congress, and you will find out what unionism means. Why can't you reason in your head that there are more workers than bosses, and if they vote as a group, the bosses are going to get screwed again? Can't you see that your behavior like before WWI and in the 20s and from 94 to 06 lately leads to, inevitably?

 

[thereisnospoon]

The point is not capitalism, munchkin, it is that Union bosses are far closer to those they represent than are the CEOs to the workers, and the Union bosses get far less than the CEOs in retirement and perks.

And you uber-corporatists want to shut off union influence? Look at what happened in WI. Walker, I think, will survive the 5th, but he has been kissing unions for the last three months, and will cozy up after the 5th. What a stupid guy.

Munchkin? Were you just thinking about those little treats from Dunkin Donuts? Though so. Because I am certain that term was not directed toward me. Union leadership have as little connection to the workers as the people in the board room at GE. So please stop the nonsense. Walker will win because the people are sick of the high wages and gold plated benefit packages for unionized public workers. The taxpayers are have spoken and they are going to speak again on June 5th. The DNC has pulled support from the race. This movement to rein in public worker unions is spreading across the nation. I knew this was going to happen. The taxpayers are tapped out. There is no more money to pay those wages and fund those benefits. Sorry, but public workers are just going to have to live with regular wages and benefits just like the rest of us.

Yep, spoon is a munchkin mind when it comes to unions, the law, and reality. Union leaders are far more connected to the rank and file than the great CEOs. Walker may win but will continue to kiss union ass. Nope, the movement has ground to halt and will be reversed state by state by true Americans.

Dude...Unions are DEAD. Union numbers continue to shrink. Business wants as little to with unions as humanly possible. Workers offered the option of unionizing more times than not will defeat the measure. Hence the reason for this idea of "card check" which is nothing more than a union backed intimidation idea to keep the rank and file in line.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Gadawag and Foxfyre truly do not comprehend the problems.

G, you have to give us the company/union profit to company/nonunion profit ratio, not me. Why? That's your argument. A weak one, I might add.

Collective bargaining to improve dangerous working conditions is a bad thing? Really?

G does not know that it's the CEOs who get all their pension and parachute benefits UP FRONT before the rest of the union and workers. Almost every compensation contract is written that way. But G knows that but does not share it.

I agree that the union should compromise on pensionees paying a portion of their health care bills, once the CEOs are moved to the back of the line on collection benefits and parachutes. The second that happens, every thing gets funded.

G, guess who the well paid lobbyists are for the CEOs and the companies?

G, you can't win this one, because the facts don't support you.

NOW, go through your and my posts, build an affirmative case with assertions supported by factual and unbiased evidence, and then Conclude with the significant emphasis of your belief. Stop making assertions without significant unbiased evidence, then demand I refute them. Not my job, because you failed.

The facts do support gadawg's comments. The fact that the numbers of unionized workers continues to decline. Unions are just not welcome anymore.
There will not be a better day when the last union hall ( especially public workers ) closes it's doors for the last time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The next great recession or depression, munchkin mind, will sweep in the Democrats and a new wave of unionism that will make the old one look like open shop days. One of the results will be the complete unionization of public sector jobs. You think businesses are crying now, in this the best possible situation versus labor in 80 years? Munchkin minds, for sure. Most of us businessmen, unfortunately, are so close minded about being fair with the work force,