Universal Basic Income: Biden's Best Bet?

[Missouri_Mike]

So the other states are going to provide stolen money. That’s what they will bring to the table. Fucking genius.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

I honestly can’t believe nobody thought of just taxing the shit out of everything would allow a nation to make everyone equal. Oh wait, that’s been socialism since day one and has a success rate of exactly zero.

taxing intellectual property is a new angle. Once we have UBI in place then the government can just own it all. You got paid your UBI, we now own that business.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Free money? That is total BS, no such thing, someone is going to pay for it. It didn't work in Finland and I don't see it happening in the US.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

I didn't realize Robert Kuttner was such a whiney twat.

 

[Andylusion]

I wager the same would result from having UI. Because the problem is the heart. People don't want to make the choice to act wisely with money, and giving them more money just results in them being irresponsible with more.

I learned this the hard way. I had a co-worker that got laid off a few months after I was laid off. I heard through another party, that she was getting kicked out of her apartment.

I contacted her, and let her stay at my place. I only charged her $350 a month, which for a steal given it was a 900 sq ft place, and she had the entire first floor to herself. 300 sq ft studio apartments cost $350 a month, right?

Instead of using all this extra money she had, from having such a low rent, to save and use it to better herself.... she blew it. And I mean completely blew all the money. She would get paid on Friday, and be penny-less by Thursday. She did this week after week after week.

Every single time that an unplanned expense came up, she would call me, and ask me to help her. Even if she just ran out of gasoline for the car on Thursday, she wouldn't be able to buy gas until Friday.

What I discovered was that in my well intentioned efforts to help another person, all I had really done was be an enabler of her to be more irresponsible than she had been before.

She didn't save the money for when her car broke down. She didn't pay for training to get her skills to get a better job. She didn't use the money to do anything helpful, or even save for her retirement.

In fact, she said directly to me "I don't need to save, because I'll just get social security".

Which tells me, that just like how I enabled her be more irresponsible by providing her an extremely low rent..... society enabled her to be more irresponsible by let her intentionally spend everything she makes, so she can live on social security.

So I admire your optimistic outlook about Universal basic income, but I think it would simply allow people to be more irresponsible than they are now.

Without a doubt for some, yes it would. We all know people like your former coworker.

I have an old GF I've stayed in contact with for many years. We even lived together for one of those years. She ended up on disability and lost her house. Before being thrown out, she had two choices: get her own apartment, or live with her mother. She and her mother don't get along very well. The problem was that she couldn't afford an apartment. At the time I had an apartment open up and told her I'd give it to her at a little bit of a discount.

She looked at the place (even though she seen it many times before) and later declined my offer stating that even with lower rent, she still couldn't afford to live there. She started to give me a rundown of her expenses. I stopped her when she got to the car payment part. $600.00 a month. I screamed at her "Are you Fn crazy, 600 bucks a month for a car???" I went on to suggest she get rid of a car and buy something used at least near a reasonable payment. She refused.

She moved in with her mother, they fought night and day, she was so aggravated she said she couldn't stand it any longer. I offered her a nice apartment for less than her car payment was. Extremely irresponsible. She bought the car when she was working and making pretty good money. When she lost the house, that stupid car payment was likely the reason why. She was more concerned about keeping the car than keeping a roof over her head.

But I don't think most people are like our friends. If UI turned out to be a great deal for our government and country, it would be a shame to not consider it because of irresponsible people. They are going to be irresponsible whether they get UI or not, just like our friends. For more responsible people, or those who just need a little push to go in the right direction, it could solve a lot of problems and perhaps change a lot of lives.

I have to admit, that the car things is one of the most baffling aspects of American self-imprisonment.

Years and years ago, I had an old 1990 Chevy Lumina 2-door. It was 10 years old, and I figured it was time to get something better. Shopped around, until I found a Monte Carlo 1998. Got the car from the dealer, drove it home.

The next Monday, got up, drove to work, worked, drove home... I got to my apartment and parked.... and I remember sitting in that car thinking...... "that's it?..... that's it." Here was I expecting this euphoric experience, and instead it was just.... drive to work.... drive home... go to bed. Nothing changed, except I had a huge car payment each month.

You spend a whooping one hour of your entire life per work day, in your car (30 minutes to work and back), and then the rest of the time, the car is outside by itself, while you are in your work place, or at home sleeping.... and the average American pays $35,000 for a car today.

Why....? I returned that car to the dealer, and drove the old 1990 Lumina another 5 years I think before I bought another used car.

So many people tie themselves up in a cage of their own creation, and then complain they don't make enough money. Sell the car. You don't have a place to live, and your are stuck in a miserable situation, but you have a $600 a month car, that you spend just minutes a day in?

No where else in the world, do they do this. The reason French have those ridiculously terrible 3-wheeled cars, is because having a place to live is more important.

 

[Thinker101]

I wager the same would result from having UI. Because the problem is the heart. People don't want to make the choice to act wisely with money, and giving them more money just results in them being irresponsible with more.

I learned this the hard way. I had a co-worker that got laid off a few months after I was laid off. I heard through another party, that she was getting kicked out of her apartment.

I contacted her, and let her stay at my place. I only charged her $350 a month, which for a steal given it was a 900 sq ft place, and she had the entire first floor to herself. 300 sq ft studio apartments cost $350 a month, right?

Instead of using all this extra money she had, from having such a low rent, to save and use it to better herself.... she blew it. And I mean completely blew all the money. She would get paid on Friday, and be penny-less by Thursday. She did this week after week after week.

Every single time that an unplanned expense came up, she would call me, and ask me to help her. Even if she just ran out of gasoline for the car on Thursday, she wouldn't be able to buy gas until Friday.

What I discovered was that in my well intentioned efforts to help another person, all I had really done was be an enabler of her to be more irresponsible than she had been before.

She didn't save the money for when her car broke down. She didn't pay for training to get her skills to get a better job. She didn't use the money to do anything helpful, or even save for her retirement.

In fact, she said directly to me "I don't need to save, because I'll just get social security".

Which tells me, that just like how I enabled her be more irresponsible by providing her an extremely low rent..... society enabled her to be more irresponsible by let her intentionally spend everything she makes, so she can live on social security.

So I admire your optimistic outlook about Universal basic income, but I think it would simply allow people to be more irresponsible than they are now.

Without a doubt for some, yes it would. We all know people like your former coworker.

I have an old GF I've stayed in contact with for many years. We even lived together for one of those years. She ended up on disability and lost her house. Before being thrown out, she had two choices: get her own apartment, or live with her mother. She and her mother don't get along very well. The problem was that she couldn't afford an apartment. At the time I had an apartment open up and told her I'd give it to her at a little bit of a discount.

She looked at the place (even though she seen it many times before) and later declined my offer stating that even with lower rent, she still couldn't afford to live there. She started to give me a rundown of her expenses. I stopped her when she got to the car payment part. $600.00 a month. I screamed at her "Are you Fn crazy, 600 bucks a month for a car???" I went on to suggest she get rid of a car and buy something used at least near a reasonable payment. She refused.

She moved in with her mother, they fought night and day, she was so aggravated she said she couldn't stand it any longer. I offered her a nice apartment for less than her car payment was. Extremely irresponsible. She bought the car when she was working and making pretty good money. When she lost the house, that stupid car payment was likely the reason why. She was more concerned about keeping the car than keeping a roof over her head.

But I don't think most people are like our friends. If UI turned out to be a great deal for our government and country, it would be a shame to not consider it because of irresponsible people. They are going to be irresponsible whether they get UI or not, just like our friends. For more responsible people, or those who just need a little push to go in the right direction, it could solve a lot of problems and perhaps change a lot of lives.

Dang, over the year's I must have dated 3 of her sisters.

 

[Andylusion]

And, I agree to disagree that military spending is better than infrastructure spending as a Government means of production.

If I understand the concept correctly, military spending is more useful to modern economies dominated by big business. Apparently, blowing things up on the opposite side of the planet doesn't compete with elite capitalist interests in the same way as domestic spending (like infrastructure) does. There's also the additional benefits of imperialism like controlling the natural resources of other sovereign states. MAGA yet?

But we haven't controlled the natural resources of other sovereign states. You can say that.... but that's just more left-wing mythology. When has that ever happened?

Iraq signs $3 billion oil deal with China - CNN.com

Iraq has signed its first major oil deal with a foreign company since the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime, a spokesman for the Iraqi Oil Ministry said Saturday.

edition.cnn.com

In 2008, when supposedly we were in Iraq to steal their oil..... Iraq signed a deal with a Chinese oil company worth $3 Billion dollars.

Where did we ever go controlling the natural resources of other sovereign states? Give me an example?

Where, and when, would you point to as a place where we got control, and stole their resources? I can't think of a single time anywhere ever in the last 100 years.

Maybe before that, I don't know. But certainly not since then.

 

[Orangecat]

That is simply being richer than the Poor.

Where is the line between rich and poor for you? Anyone with more wealth than you is rich?

 

[Andylusion]

Trump won't go to prison. That's assured. He may pay some fines here or there, but he's not going to prison.

If so, that's only because Joe Biden reverts to his corporate roots and refuses to prosecute:

Losing Could Expose Trump to Prosecution for Any Number of Crimes

"Tax fraud seems to be a family tradition for Trump.

"The Trumps set up a company in 1992 owned by Trump, his siblings, and a cousin who apparently did nothing except siphon money from the real estate empire of Donald’s father, Fred Trump, into the company’s pockets.

"This allowed Fred to shower his children with millions of dollars in gifts without having to pay any gift tax."

If they really did violate the law, being it to court and prove it.

Regardless, I don't have problem with this. He paid taxes on all the money he earned correct?

You are not suggesting that Trump's father did not pay his income taxes, right?

So he paid income tax on that money. Why should anyone pay taxes on money they already paid taxes on?

As far as I'm concerned the gift tax is immoral.

But if you can actually prove he violated the law, by all means take it to court and prove it.

 

[Orangecat]

Equal protection of the law is in our several Constitutions.

Several? Lulz.

 

[Andylusion]

Alaska's revenue comes from oil royalties, moron. Where is the revenue for this giant swindle supposed to come from?

The revenue will come from every American's share of their national commons; feel free to donate your share to the billionaire parasite of your choice.

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference. Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons."

The revenue will come from every American's share of their national commons

Never works. High sounded statements... but it never works.

Anytime you own something "in common" the result is that it is destroyed.

Let's take a look at some of the results of "share of their national commons" in action today.

This is a picture from the 1980s, of Haiti and the DR.

This is a picture from the 2010s.

This is a closer look at the border between Haiti and DR.

Now let's ask the question "Why?" Why is it this way?

The reason is simple. On the DR side, they have a concept that is fundamental to all Capitalism, called "Private Property".

On the Haiti side, they have government owned land, that is "held in common". So that all people can benefit from the natural resources of the country equally... and thus... there are none.

See with private property, the owner of the property has a profit-based incentive to maintain the property. Land that is ruined, has no value to the owner. Can't sell lumber, if you cut down every single tree, and no longer have any trees.

No one is going to spend money building wells, or aqueducts to water the land, or maintain irrigation on land held in common. Why would I spend money, to benefit other people, and not myself?

This is why all the trees were cut down entirely from the Haiti common land. After all, if I need lumber, and the only trees left are saplings, I still going to cut them down and get what little lumber I can, because if I don't someone else will. There is no benefit to me to leave the saplings, because someone else will take them.

Thus the trees are gone, the soil erodes, and the land decays into ruins.

That's what holding natural resources in common, does.

And by the way, Alaska is not holding resources in common.

• BP Alaska.
• Caelus Energy.
• ConocoPhillips Alaska.
• ExxonMobil.

These are for profit, capitalist companies, operating the oil fields in Alaska. They are not government run, they are for-profit. They are not 'held in common'.

Unless you want to claim that ConocoPhilips and Exxon and BP are all nationalized not-for-profit companies run by the government..... and good luck making that case.

 

[dblack]

I wager the same would result from having UI. Because the problem is the heart. People don't want to make the choice to act wisely with money, and giving them more money just results in them being irresponsible with more.

I learned this the hard way. I had a co-worker that got laid off a few months after I was laid off. I heard through another party, that she was getting kicked out of her apartment.

I contacted her, and let her stay at my place. I only charged her $350 a month, which for a steal given it was a 900 sq ft place, and she had the entire first floor to herself. 300 sq ft studio apartments cost $350 a month, right?

Instead of using all this extra money she had, from having such a low rent, to save and use it to better herself.... she blew it. And I mean completely blew all the money. She would get paid on Friday, and be penny-less by Thursday. She did this week after week after week.

Every single time that an unplanned expense came up, she would call me, and ask me to help her. Even if she just ran out of gasoline for the car on Thursday, she wouldn't be able to buy gas until Friday.

What I discovered was that in my well intentioned efforts to help another person, all I had really done was be an enabler of her to be more irresponsible than she had been before.

She didn't save the money for when her car broke down. She didn't pay for training to get her skills to get a better job. She didn't use the money to do anything helpful, or even save for her retirement.

In fact, she said directly to me "I don't need to save, because I'll just get social security".

Which tells me, that just like how I enabled her be more irresponsible by providing her an extremely low rent..... society enabled her to be more irresponsible by let her intentionally spend everything she makes, so she can live on social security.

So I admire your optimistic outlook about Universal basic income, but I think it would simply allow people to be more irresponsible than they are now.

Without a doubt for some, yes it would. We all know people like your former coworker.

I have an old GF I've stayed in contact with for many years. We even lived together for one of those years. She ended up on disability and lost her house. Before being thrown out, she had two choices: get her own apartment, or live with her mother. She and her mother don't get along very well. The problem was that she couldn't afford an apartment. At the time I had an apartment open up and told her I'd give it to her at a little bit of a discount.

She looked at the place (even though she seen it many times before) and later declined my offer stating that even with lower rent, she still couldn't afford to live there. She started to give me a rundown of her expenses. I stopped her when she got to the car payment part. $600.00 a month. I screamed at her "Are you Fn crazy, 600 bucks a month for a car???" I went on to suggest she get rid of a car and buy something used at least near a reasonable payment. She refused.

She moved in with her mother, they fought night and day, she was so aggravated she said she couldn't stand it any longer. I offered her a nice apartment for less than her car payment was. Extremely irresponsible. She bought the car when she was working and making pretty good money. When she lost the house, that stupid car payment was likely the reason why. She was more concerned about keeping the car than keeping a roof over her head.

But I don't think most people are like our friends. If UI turned out to be a great deal for our government and country, it would be a shame to not consider it because of irresponsible people. They are going to be irresponsible whether they get UI or not, just like our friends. For more responsible people, or those who just need a little push to go in the right direction, it could solve a lot of problems and perhaps change a lot of lives.

I have to admit, that the car things is one of the most baffling aspects of American self-imprisonment.

Years and years ago, I had an old 1990 Chevy Lumina 2-door. It was 10 years old, and I figured it was time to get something better. Shopped around, until I found a Monte Carlo 1998. Got the car from the dealer, drove it home.

The next Monday, got up, drove to work, worked, drove home... I got to my apartment and parked.... and I remember sitting in that car thinking...... "that's it?..... that's it." Here was I expecting this euphoric experience, and instead it was just.... drive to work.... drive home... go to bed. Nothing changed, except I had a huge car payment each month.

You spend a whooping one hour of your entire life per work day, in your car (30 minutes to work and back), and then the rest of the time, the car is outside by itself, while you are in your work place, or at home sleeping.... and the average American pays $35,000 for a car today.

Why....? I returned that car to the dealer, and drove the old 1990 Lumina another 5 years I think before I bought another used car.

So many people tie themselves up in a cage of their own creation, and then complain they don't make enough money. Sell the car. You don't have a place to live, and your are stuck in a miserable situation, but you have a $600 a month car, that you spend just minutes a day in?

No where else in the world, do they do this. The reason French have those ridiculously terrible 3-wheeled cars, is because having a place to live is more important.

When I moved up to NYC, I ditched my car. There, owning a car is just a pain in the ass. And I learned to really enjoy not having to deal with an automobile. When I moved to Colorado, after six months of hoofing it and getting around by bike or bus, I got tired of just looking at the mountains and finally bought a car. It's really a nice perk to have one, but even here, you can easily get by without a car.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

I wager the same would result from having UI. Because the problem is the heart. People don't want to make the choice to act wisely with money, and giving them more money just results in them being irresponsible with more.

I learned this the hard way. I had a co-worker that got laid off a few months after I was laid off. I heard through another party, that she was getting kicked out of her apartment.

I contacted her, and let her stay at my place. I only charged her $350 a month, which for a steal given it was a 900 sq ft place, and she had the entire first floor to herself. 300 sq ft studio apartments cost $350 a month, right?

Instead of using all this extra money she had, from having such a low rent, to save and use it to better herself.... she blew it. And I mean completely blew all the money. She would get paid on Friday, and be penny-less by Thursday. She did this week after week after week.

Every single time that an unplanned expense came up, she would call me, and ask me to help her. Even if she just ran out of gasoline for the car on Thursday, she wouldn't be able to buy gas until Friday.

What I discovered was that in my well intentioned efforts to help another person, all I had really done was be an enabler of her to be more irresponsible than she had been before.

She didn't save the money for when her car broke down. She didn't pay for training to get her skills to get a better job. She didn't use the money to do anything helpful, or even save for her retirement.

In fact, she said directly to me "I don't need to save, because I'll just get social security".

Which tells me, that just like how I enabled her be more irresponsible by providing her an extremely low rent..... society enabled her to be more irresponsible by let her intentionally spend everything she makes, so she can live on social security.

So I admire your optimistic outlook about Universal basic income, but I think it would simply allow people to be more irresponsible than they are now.

Without a doubt for some, yes it would. We all know people like your former coworker.

I have an old GF I've stayed in contact with for many years. We even lived together for one of those years. She ended up on disability and lost her house. Before being thrown out, she had two choices: get her own apartment, or live with her mother. She and her mother don't get along very well. The problem was that she couldn't afford an apartment. At the time I had an apartment open up and told her I'd give it to her at a little bit of a discount.

She looked at the place (even though she seen it many times before) and later declined my offer stating that even with lower rent, she still couldn't afford to live there. She started to give me a rundown of her expenses. I stopped her when she got to the car payment part. $600.00 a month. I screamed at her "Are you Fn crazy, 600 bucks a month for a car???" I went on to suggest she get rid of a car and buy something used at least near a reasonable payment. She refused.

She moved in with her mother, they fought night and day, she was so aggravated she said she couldn't stand it any longer. I offered her a nice apartment for less than her car payment was. Extremely irresponsible. She bought the car when she was working and making pretty good money. When she lost the house, that stupid car payment was likely the reason why. She was more concerned about keeping the car than keeping a roof over her head.

But I don't think most people are like our friends. If UI turned out to be a great deal for our government and country, it would be a shame to not consider it because of irresponsible people. They are going to be irresponsible whether they get UI or not, just like our friends. For more responsible people, or those who just need a little push to go in the right direction, it could solve a lot of problems and perhaps change a lot of lives.

I have to admit, that the car things is one of the most baffling aspects of American self-imprisonment.

Years and years ago, I had an old 1990 Chevy Lumina 2-door. It was 10 years old, and I figured it was time to get something better. Shopped around, until I found a Monte Carlo 1998. Got the car from the dealer, drove it home.

The next Monday, got up, drove to work, worked, drove home... I got to my apartment and parked.... and I remember sitting in that car thinking...... "that's it?..... that's it." Here was I expecting this euphoric experience, and instead it was just.... drive to work.... drive home... go to bed. Nothing changed, except I had a huge car payment each month.

You spend a whooping one hour of your entire life per work day, in your car (30 minutes to work and back), and then the rest of the time, the car is outside by itself, while you are in your work place, or at home sleeping.... and the average American pays $35,000 for a car today.

Why....? I returned that car to the dealer, and drove the old 1990 Lumina another 5 years I think before I bought another used car.

So many people tie themselves up in a cage of their own creation, and then complain they don't make enough money. Sell the car. You don't have a place to live, and your are stuck in a miserable situation, but you have a $600 a month car, that you spend just minutes a day in?

No where else in the world, do they do this. The reason French have those ridiculously terrible 3-wheeled cars, is because having a place to live is more important.

Not everyone is a car person. For now you can choose not to be and that’s fine. You can choose that. It’s not up to the government to push you out of that choice. How many French people would prefer a new Ford Raptor? Who knows. It’s not an option.

 

[jackflash]

Almost everyone's aware of Alaska's Permanent Fund:

"...The program began in 1976 after the discovery of oil on Alaska’s North Slope.

"The then-governor, a renegade Republican named Jay Hammond, concluded that this windfall was too good to just give to the oil companies.

"So he devised the program to share the revenue with Alaska residents...."

"OK, here’s the idea for President-elect Biden:

"Bring 20 of the Trumpiest-looking Alaskans to a press conference.

"Unveil a plan whereby every man, woman, and child gets a $1,000 check every month from the government.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research.

"Invite the Alaskans to describe the joy of getting their checks: no middleman, no means tests, no government forms to fill out—just free money as everyone’s share of the American commons.

"Dare Mitch McConnell to oppose it."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

The "American commons" are the cultural and natural resources accessible to all members of society. In a time when the privileged few expand their vast fortunes despite a global pandemic and recession, it seems fitting to socialize the profits and privatize the losses.

Does anyone believe "Delaware Joe" will turn on his corporate benefactors?

328 million Americans * $1,000/month = $328 billion/month.
$328 billion/month * 12 months = $3.9 trillion/year.

Fun times indeed. Where is the almost $4 trillion going to come from, Bill Gates?

That's McConnell's response that kills the whole thing.

Moscow Mitch wouldn't do it if it was $.05 a year.

He's scum who cares nothing for Americans.

Irrelevant. It's a stupid idea.

What's irrelevant about the senate majority leader not caring about the people he's supposed to be working for?

its not his job to take care or provide for the people,,

Actually, as a senator, that precisely what his job is.

where can I find that in the constitution??

NB4 - The General Welfare Clause....

Why not just create & then print out our own PERSONAL Dividend Fund checks? I mean they'd be just as worthless as 289 million g'ment issued IOU's???

 

[Andylusion]

We can always trust you to believe every government swindle is a great idea.

The Biggest Swindle in US History

Trump Is Creating a Grifter Economy

Give me a specific example. Can you actually supply real world examples of any of this?

Consumers shouldn't automatically, or by default win.

Lenders should win most of the complaints.

If I lend you money...... Why should you win any complaint that I have about you?

You owe me. I don't owe you. YOU OWE ME. You borrowed money from me. Consumers SHOULD be ordered to pay back what they owe to lenders. You said in a legal document that you would pay back the money you owe me.

Now if you did that.... we wouldn't be having a complaint, or an arbitration, or anything.

It's because you did not do that, that I filed a complaint. Pay back what you owe. That is the morally good position.

You don't think so? Can I borrow $1,000? I just had to fix my car, and I need the money. I'll pay you back... with interest.... promise. Send me the $1,000.

And when I don't pay you back, make sure you remember this post you made.

 

[Andylusion]

I wager the same would result from having UI. Because the problem is the heart. People don't want to make the choice to act wisely with money, and giving them more money just results in them being irresponsible with more.

I learned this the hard way. I had a co-worker that got laid off a few months after I was laid off. I heard through another party, that she was getting kicked out of her apartment.

I contacted her, and let her stay at my place. I only charged her $350 a month, which for a steal given it was a 900 sq ft place, and she had the entire first floor to herself. 300 sq ft studio apartments cost $350 a month, right?

Instead of using all this extra money she had, from having such a low rent, to save and use it to better herself.... she blew it. And I mean completely blew all the money. She would get paid on Friday, and be penny-less by Thursday. She did this week after week after week.

Every single time that an unplanned expense came up, she would call me, and ask me to help her. Even if she just ran out of gasoline for the car on Thursday, she wouldn't be able to buy gas until Friday.

What I discovered was that in my well intentioned efforts to help another person, all I had really done was be an enabler of her to be more irresponsible than she had been before.

She didn't save the money for when her car broke down. She didn't pay for training to get her skills to get a better job. She didn't use the money to do anything helpful, or even save for her retirement.

In fact, she said directly to me "I don't need to save, because I'll just get social security".

Which tells me, that just like how I enabled her be more irresponsible by providing her an extremely low rent..... society enabled her to be more irresponsible by let her intentionally spend everything she makes, so she can live on social security.

So I admire your optimistic outlook about Universal basic income, but I think it would simply allow people to be more irresponsible than they are now.

Without a doubt for some, yes it would. We all know people like your former coworker.

I have an old GF I've stayed in contact with for many years. We even lived together for one of those years. She ended up on disability and lost her house. Before being thrown out, she had two choices: get her own apartment, or live with her mother. She and her mother don't get along very well. The problem was that she couldn't afford an apartment. At the time I had an apartment open up and told her I'd give it to her at a little bit of a discount.

She looked at the place (even though she seen it many times before) and later declined my offer stating that even with lower rent, she still couldn't afford to live there. She started to give me a rundown of her expenses. I stopped her when she got to the car payment part. $600.00 a month. I screamed at her "Are you Fn crazy, 600 bucks a month for a car???" I went on to suggest she get rid of a car and buy something used at least near a reasonable payment. She refused.

She moved in with her mother, they fought night and day, she was so aggravated she said she couldn't stand it any longer. I offered her a nice apartment for less than her car payment was. Extremely irresponsible. She bought the car when she was working and making pretty good money. When she lost the house, that stupid car payment was likely the reason why. She was more concerned about keeping the car than keeping a roof over her head.

But I don't think most people are like our friends. If UI turned out to be a great deal for our government and country, it would be a shame to not consider it because of irresponsible people. They are going to be irresponsible whether they get UI or not, just like our friends. For more responsible people, or those who just need a little push to go in the right direction, it could solve a lot of problems and perhaps change a lot of lives.

I have to admit, that the car things is one of the most baffling aspects of American self-imprisonment.

Years and years ago, I had an old 1990 Chevy Lumina 2-door. It was 10 years old, and I figured it was time to get something better. Shopped around, until I found a Monte Carlo 1998. Got the car from the dealer, drove it home.

The next Monday, got up, drove to work, worked, drove home... I got to my apartment and parked.... and I remember sitting in that car thinking...... "that's it?..... that's it." Here was I expecting this euphoric experience, and instead it was just.... drive to work.... drive home... go to bed. Nothing changed, except I had a huge car payment each month.

You spend a whooping one hour of your entire life per work day, in your car (30 minutes to work and back), and then the rest of the time, the car is outside by itself, while you are in your work place, or at home sleeping.... and the average American pays $35,000 for a car today.

Why....? I returned that car to the dealer, and drove the old 1990 Lumina another 5 years I think before I bought another used car.

So many people tie themselves up in a cage of their own creation, and then complain they don't make enough money. Sell the car. You don't have a place to live, and your are stuck in a miserable situation, but you have a $600 a month car, that you spend just minutes a day in?

No where else in the world, do they do this. The reason French have those ridiculously terrible 3-wheeled cars, is because having a place to live is more important.

Not everyone is a car person. For now you can choose not to be and that’s fine. You can choose that. It’s not up to the government to push you out of that choice. How many French people would prefer a new Ford Raptor? Who knows. It’s not an option.

I would love to have a new car. I can think of a dozen cars I'd like to have. I'd love to have an RX-8. I'd love to have a Dodge Charger. I'd love to have a Mark IIV.

Of course I can think of a bunch I'd love to have.

That's not the point though. Americans, more than any other group of people, will tie themselves into slavery, to have a car. I won't.

If I ever get the money to own a nice car, then I'll own a nice car. But I'm not going to be a slave for the rest of my life, to car payments, and crying about how capitalism is so bad, and banks are evil, the rich have an unfair advantage, and we need to raise the minimum wage...... because I enslaved myself to a car payment.

It is dumb! I don't care how much you love cars. If you put yourself in bondage over a car, and then cry about how you need more money and how unfair life is.... that's a YOU problem, not a society problem.

 

[Orangecat]

So many people tie themselves up in a cage of their own creation, and then complain they don't make enough money.

We all create our own cages, for sure. Hence the phrases "house poor" and "college loan debt".

..and "married with kids",

 

[justinacolmena]

It is dumb! I don't care how much you love cars. If you put yourself in bondage over a car, and then cry about how you need more money and how unfair life is.... that's a YOU problem, not a society problem.

When I own a car free and clear, paid cash for it, title in my name, etc., I would like to be able to keep it.

 

[justinacolmena]

We all create our own cages, for sure. Hence the phrases "house poor" and "college loan debt".

..and "married with kids",

There's always justification and rationalization for grand larceny, isn't there?

 

[Orangecat]

We all create our own cages, for sure. Hence the phrases "house poor" and "college loan debt".

..and "married with kids",

There's always justification and rationalization for grand larceny, isn't there?

Nah. I have an understanding with money. No need to steal.

 

[Andylusion]

So the other states are going to provide stolen money. That’s what they will bring to the table. Fucking genius.

"Finance it with taxes on large wealth, fossil fuels, financial transactions, and intellectual property resulting from taxpayer-funded public research."

A Big, Simple, Winning Issue for Biden

Already covered that. History has proven that to not work.

Taxes on wealth. Didn't work in Venezuela, Cuba, France, or anywhere else they tried it. The wealthy will move their wealth away from the taxes.

Fossil Fuels... again Venezuela tried that, so did the Iranians, and others. Did not work. You confiscate the fossil fuels, so that people can't make a profit from it, and then you don't have anymore fossil fuels to collect taxes from.

Financial Transactions... they tried that. They simply moved where they did their banking, out of the countries that had the tax on transactions. You don't seem to understand, that today I can with a click on a computer, move assets around the world. Right now.... NOW... I have assets in Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and one other country, I'd have to look up my portfolio. Regardless, you get the point. If you made it more profitable, by taxes my domestic transactions, to move ALL my assets out of the US, I could have that done by 3 PM Monday.

Intellectual property... as I said, if you started demanding royalties for Intellectual Property, the result would only be that companies would stop using government money.

Which by the way, I would support. I would actually be 100% in favor of this action, only because it would end government funded research. But it certainly would not get you any significant government revenue.

 

[justinacolmena]

Nah. I have an understanding with money. No need to steal.

I didn't get the memorandum. Stealing is stealing. Thou shalt not steal.
Extortion, robbery, blackmail, and sabotage are no better than stealing, either.