US Navy veteran ordered to remove American flag wrap from mailbox

[Bob Blaylock]

If you don't like the rules......move elsewhere

4 flags is enough to show his patriotism. What if he wants to paint his house red, white and blue?

If the state of California wants to tell me how many flags I can display on my property, should I just move elsewhere? If the city of Sacramento wants to tell me how many flags I can display, should I just move elsewhere?

Can I rationally be deemed, by living in a particular state, or a particular city, to have agreed to whatever arbitrary and absurd rules that state or city wants to impose on me?

The governments of the state and the city in which I live are required to comply with this nation's Constitution. They cannot legitimately impose any rules and restrictions on me that violate my Constitutional rights. By living in California, or in Sacramento, I cannot be held to have voluntarily waived any of my Constitutional rights.

Why should a neighborhood with an HOA be any different? An HOA amounts to a small-scale de-facto government, and as such, I can see no reason why it should have any more power than a city or a state to violate the Constitutional rights of those living under it.

 

[miketx]

A mailbox covered with the American flag is at the center of a dispute brewing between a retired U.S. veteran and a homeowners association in Florida.

US Navy veteran ordered to remove American flag wrap from mailbox

I agree with the HOA. I don't understand why people move into neighborhoods with an HOA and then complain when they get dinged for not following the rules. The HOA says he can fly 4 flags total year round. He can also put the American flag wrap on his mailbox during July 4th - 30 days before and 15 days after. It sounds reasonable to me. The HOA is designed to keep property values up for everyone. They have to draw a line somewhere. I would tell this vet to just fly 1-4 flags and take the wrap off his mailbox 15 days after July 4th or move to a house with no HOA.

The underlying theme is NEVER, ever belong to a homeowner association. Ever.

 

[rightwinger]

If you don't like the rules......move elsewhere

4 flags is enough to show his patriotism. What if he wants to paint his house red, white and blue?

If the state of California wants to tell me how many flags I can display on my property, should I just move elsewhere? If the city of Sacramento wants to tell me how many flags I can display, should I just move elsewhere?

Can I rationally be deemed, by living in a particular state, or a particular city, to have agreed to whatever arbitrary and absurd rules that state or city wants to impose on me?

The governments of the state and the city in which I live are required to comply with this nation's Constitution. They cannot legitimately impose any rules and restrictions on me that violate my Constitutional rights. By living in California, or in Sacramento, I cannot be held to have voluntarily waived any of my Constitutional rights.

Why should a neighborhood with an HOA be any different? An HOA amounts to a small-scale de-facto government, and as such, I can see no reason why it should have any more power than a city or a state to violate the Constitutional rights of those living under it.

It s not the state of California or even Sacramento that s telling him what to do.......it is a more powerful entity......the HOA

Rules and Restrctions are imposed in a contract that you sign

You don't like that you can't wrap your mailbox the way you like.....don't move to a neighborhood with a lot of petty rules and regulations

 

[rightwinger]

Top 10 List of Worst HOA Bylaws

 

[Harry Dresden]

He might want to check the Flag Code.

And the law. Buncha kids got picked up for running around beating up mail boxes when I was a kid. I haven't kept up with the law, perhaps it has changed, but at that point in time, it was considerd a federal offense.

it still is,even though you may have bought your box, mail boxes are federal property and controlled by the UPS...

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It s not the state of California or even Sacramento that s telling him what to do.......it is a more powerful entity......the HOA

Rules and Restrctions are imposed in a contract that you sign

You don't like that you can't wrap your mailbox the way you like.....don't move to a neighborhood with a lot of petty rules and regulations

You are (deliberately, I think) missing the point.

A state or a city does not get to force me to sign a contract before I am allowed to live there. It does not get to force me to waive any of my Constitutional rights as a condition of being allowed to live there.

What makes a neighborhood any different, that it should be allowed to impose such terms on those who want to live there, that a city or a state cannot? An HOA functions like a government, imposing rules on those who live in its jurisdiction. Why should the HOA, then, not be constrained by the same Constitutional restraints that any other level of government must obey? What you are defending is an irrational double-standard. What you are defending is lawlessness and tyranny, thinly disguised as contractual law. What you are defending, is I think, completely irreconcilable with the Constitutional principles on which this nation is based.

 

[bodecea]

We have an HOA and we have found over the years that the best defense is to get on the board....my wife and I have tag teamed on that for almost 17 years now.....We've been lucky lately that most on the board (if you can get a quorum) are younger, gainfully employed people. It gets really dicey when you've got the older, retired crowd running things....they've got nothing better to do than run around and find "violations"...we had one older woman who we called the "palm frond lady" because anyone who had more than one brown palm frond on their palm trees, they got a violation....I think she was getting kick backs from the trimming company.

So you finally found something where you think it means you actually matter?

How sad........

 

[Mr Natural]

He might want to check the Flag Code.

There should be no HOA flag code you POS bull Dyke

Well, at this particular HOA there is.

 

[rightwinger]

It s not the state of California or even Sacramento that s telling him what to do.......it is a more powerful entity......the HOA

Rules and Restrctions are imposed in a contract that you sign

You don't like that you can't wrap your mailbox the way you like.....don't move to a neighborhood with a lot of petty rules and regulations

You are (deliberately, I think) missing the point.

A state or a city does not get to force me to sign a contract before I am allowed to live there. It does not get to force me to waive any of my Constitutional rights as a condition of being allowed to live there.

What makes a neighborhood any different, that it should be allowed to impose such terms on those who want to live there, that a city or a state cannot? An HOA functions like a government, imposing rules on those who live in its jurisdiction. Why should the HOA, then, not be constrained by the same Constitutional restraints that any other level of government must obey? What you are defending is an irrational double-standard. What you are defending is lawlessness and tyranny, thinly disguised as contractual law. What you are defending, is I think, completely irreconcilable with the Constitutional principles on which this nation is based.

I am not defending them.....I think HOAs suck

But you sign a contract, you must abide by it

 

[depotoo]

You must be a conformist to live in a hoa community.
I would never subject myself to one.

The important point here is he can fly a flag. He can fly 4 in fact. He can even put the flag on his mailbox during and around the July 4th. The HOA just wants to keep a uniform mailbox during other times. Sounds to me he's just being difficult for no reason.

So what does the HOA feel about the United States Postal Service delivering the mail in their red , white, and blue truck with American flag on it by a letter carrier who is most likely a veteran?

 

[NLT]

Well, at this particular HOA there is.

Mr cleans flag

 

[rightwinger]

Well, at this particular HOA there is.

Mr cleans flag
http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...94PtTHJCyQh3KHMOwdPepOExTnFqW9HlcZhHRqWR//9k=

http://data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4...94PtTHJCyQh3KHMOwdPepOExTnFqW9HlcZhHRqWR//9k=

tl;dr

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It s not the state of California or even Sacramento that s telling him what to do.......it is a more powerful entity......the HOA

Rules and Restrctions are imposed in a contract that you sign

You don't like that you can't wrap your mailbox the way you like.....don't move to a neighborhood with a lot of petty rules and regulations

You are (deliberately, I think) missing the point.

A state or a city does not get to force me to sign a contract before I am allowed to live there. It does not get to force me to waive any of my Constitutional rights as a condition of being allowed to live there.

What makes a neighborhood any different, that it should be allowed to impose such terms on those who want to live there, that a city or a state cannot? An HOA functions like a government, imposing rules on those who live in its jurisdiction. Why should the HOA, then, not be constrained by the same Constitutional restraints that any other level of government must obey? What you are defending is an irrational double-standard. What you are defending is lawlessness and tyranny, thinly disguised as contractual law. What you are defending, is I think, completely irreconcilable with the Constitutional principles on which this nation is based.

I am not defending them.....I think HOAs suck

But you sign a contract, you must abide by it

A contract signed under duress or undue compulsion is invalid. I don't have to sign any contract as a condition of being allowed to live in California, or in Sacramento. If I had the means to buy a house, why should I be compelled to sign a contract as a condition of being allowed to live in it? In fact, why should I be compelled to sign a contract in order to even be able to buy a house, which covers anything other than the basic elements of agreeing to pay for it? If I buy a thing, it becomes my exclusive property, and what I do with it once it becomes my property is none of the seller's business. In selling a thing, the seller forfeits any claim to that thing, or any authority to control what the new owner may do with it.

 

[rightwinger]

It s not the state of California or even Sacramento that s telling him what to do.......it is a more powerful entity......the HOA

Rules and Restrctions are imposed in a contract that you sign

You don't like that you can't wrap your mailbox the way you like.....don't move to a neighborhood with a lot of petty rules and regulations

You are (deliberately, I think) missing the point.

A state or a city does not get to force me to sign a contract before I am allowed to live there. It does not get to force me to waive any of my Constitutional rights as a condition of being allowed to live there.

What makes a neighborhood any different, that it should be allowed to impose such terms on those who want to live there, that a city or a state cannot? An HOA functions like a government, imposing rules on those who live in its jurisdiction. Why should the HOA, then, not be constrained by the same Constitutional restraints that any other level of government must obey? What you are defending is an irrational double-standard. What you are defending is lawlessness and tyranny, thinly disguised as contractual law. What you are defending, is I think, completely irreconcilable with the Constitutional principles on which this nation is based.

I am not defending them.....I think HOAs suck

But you sign a contract, you must abide by it

A contract signed under duress or undue compulsion is invalid. I don't have to sign any contract as a condition of being allowed to live in California, or in Sacramento. If I had the means to buy a house, why should I be compelled to sign a contract as a condition of being allowed to live in it? In fact, why should I be compelled to sign a contract in order to even be able to buy a house, which covers anything other than the basic elements of agreeing to pay for it? If I buy a thing, it becomes my exclusive property, and what I do with it once it becomes my property is none of the seller's business. In selling a thing, the seller forfeits any claim to that thing, or any authority to control what the new owner may do with it.

Nobody is compelling you to sign anything. People choose to live in gated communities. If you purchase a home in one of those communities you agree to their rules. Those rules of the community include not peeing in the pool and how you can decorate your mailbox

 

[depotoo]

Sadly, most hoa's can actually put a lien on your home and have won many times in Florida.

It s not the state of California or even Sacramento that s telling him what to do.......it is a more powerful entity......the HOA

Rules and Restrctions are imposed in a contract that you sign

You don't like that you can't wrap your mailbox the way you like.....don't move to a neighborhood with a lot of petty rules and regulations

You are (deliberately, I think) missing the point.

A state or a city does not get to force me to sign a contract before I am allowed to live there. It does not get to force me to waive any of my Constitutional rights as a condition of being allowed to live there.

What makes a neighborhood any different, that it should be allowed to impose such terms on those who want to live there, that a city or a state cannot? An HOA functions like a government, imposing rules on those who live in its jurisdiction. Why should the HOA, then, not be constrained by the same Constitutional restraints that any other level of government must obey? What you are defending is an irrational double-standard. What you are defending is lawlessness and tyranny, thinly disguised as contractual law. What you are defending, is I think, completely irreconcilable with the Constitutional principles on which this nation is based.

I am not defending them.....I think HOAs suck

But you sign a contract, you must abide by it

A contract signed under duress or undue compulsion is invalid. I don't have to sign any contract as a condition of being allowed to live in California, or in Sacramento. If I had the means to buy a house, why should I be compelled to sign a contract as a condition of being allowed to live in it? In fact, why should I be compelled to sign a contract in order to even be able to buy a house, which covers anything other than the basic elements of agreeing to pay for it? If I buy a thing, it becomes my exclusive property, and what I do with it once it becomes my property is none of the seller's business. In selling a thing, the seller forfeits any claim to that thing, or any authority to control what the new owner may do with it.

 

[skye]

May be if the flag on the mailbox would have been an ISIS flag....

Then may be the veteran, wouldn't have been ordered to remove it.

Those are the levels of madness nowadays .......

 

[bodecea]

May be if the flag on the mailbox would have been an ISIS flag....

Then may be the veteran, wouldn't have been ordered to remove it.

Those are the levels of madness nowadays .......

Yes. I'm sure that's it.

 

[Conservative65]

We have an HOA and we have found over the years that the best defense is to get on the board....my wife and I have tag teamed on that for almost 17 years now.....We've been lucky lately that most on the board (if you can get a quorum) are younger, gainfully employed people. It gets really dicey when you've got the older, retired crowd running things....they've got nothing better to do than run around and find "violations"...we had one older woman who we called the "palm frond lady" because anyone who had more than one brown palm frond on their palm trees, they got a violation....I think she was getting kick backs from the trimming company.

So you finally found something where you think it means you actually matter?

How sad........

It is sad that you think some meaningless position in an HOA counts for something.

 

[Ame®icano]

Unrelated to OP, but related to losers from HOA.

I used to live in place with HOA, where board of directors were people (usually homeowners themselves) elected by the other homeowners. When they get elected they start acting like they're better then you. Once they send me $100 fine for leaving trashcan on the curb for longer than two days. I called them to tell them I am not paying, since it wasn't my trashcan (mine were all accounted for in my back yard), which they acknowledged and removed the fine. Just as I thought problem was resolved, I received the bill from HOA with $50 late fee for not paying the original fine on time. Of course, since I didn't pay late fee, there was another $50 late fee next month. It didn't matter to them that there shouldn't be a fine at the first place, their reasoning was that I had to pay original fine first, and than fight them for refund. Only when I told them to go and fuck themselves and that I will talk to other homeowners to vote them out, they admitted they were wrong and clear the late fees.

 

[Fang]

A mailbox covered with the American flag is at the center of a dispute brewing between a retired U.S. veteran and a homeowners association in Florida.

US Navy veteran ordered to remove American flag wrap from mailbox

I agree with the HOA. I don't understand why people move into neighborhoods with an HOA and then complain when they get dinged for not following the rules. The HOA says he can fly 4 flags total year round. He can also put the American flag wrap on his mailbox during July 4th - 30 days before and 15 days after. It sounds reasonable to me. The HOA is designed to keep property values up for everyone. They have to draw a line somewhere. I would tell this vet to just fly 1-4 flags and take the wrap off his mailbox 15 days after July 4th or move to a house with no HOA.

The underlying theme is NEVER, ever belong to a homeowner association. Ever.

The underlying theme is read a document BEFORE you sign it and, if you do sign it don't bitch about it when the the document is enforced.