US Supreme Court to Meet This Week To Decide To Take Up Gay Marriage Debate/Case

[Silhouette]

Stemberger: U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida
....the recent court decisions that have invalidated Florida’s same-sex marriage ban are “illegitimate” and will be reversed if the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue...Five million voters have been overthrown by a handful of lawyers in black robes and I think this is not the way a democracy should work,’’..He said that the definition of marriage should be something that is decided at each state level and he hopes the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue. He predicted the high court will then vote 5-4 for a ruling that determines that, unlike Roe v. Wade before it, same-sex marriage is a states’s rights issue.... Stemberger U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida Naked Politics

More..

He said that of the 35 states that have allowed same-sex marriages in some way, only 11 of them have gone through “a legitimate process” that includes a popular vote or law enacted by a legislative body.
“It’s one thing to have bad public policy. It’s another thing to have an illegitimate process,’’ he said. “This adds to the illegitimacy of government. It undermines the respect people have for government.”

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[Skylar]

Stemberger: U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida
....the recent court decisions that have invalidated Florida’s same-sex marriage ban are “illegitimate” and will be reversed if the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue...Five million voters have been overthrown by a handful of lawyers in black robes and I think this is not the way a democracy should work,’’..He said that the definition of marriage should be something that is decided at each state level and he hopes the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue. He predicted the high court will then vote 5-4 for a ruling that determines that, unlike Roe v. Wade before it, same-sex marriage is a states’s rights issue.... Stemberger U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida Naked Politics

More..

He said that of the 35 states that have allowed same-sex marriages in some way, only 11 of them have gone through “a legitimate process” that includes a popular vote or law enacted by a legislative body.
“It’s one thing to have bad public policy. It’s another thing to have an illegitimate process,’’ he said. “This adds to the illegitimacy of government. It undermines the respect people have for government.”

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And I should care what John Steinberger thinks because......

 

[Skylar]

You do not want gay parents who are raising their children from being married.

You do not want the children of gay parents to have married parents .

That is the only effect on children from preventing a gay couple from marrying- ensuring that their children will not have married parents.

I'll be honest with you. I'm not thinking about the adults AT ALL when it comes to defining marriage. I'm thinking about the kids and what formative environment is appropriate for their best upbringing...

Then consider this: gays and lesbians are having kids anyway. So the 'formative environment' question is essentially irrelevant. Whether you think its ideal or not, it is. Marriage is not the common denominator here, as gay families will exist regardless of the recognition of marriage for gays.

So only question left would be 'is it better for those children if their parents are married, or if they are not?

I and Kennedy have addressed the issue directly. Would you care to take a shot at it?

 

[Syriusly]

You do not want gay parents who are raising their children from being married.

You do not want the children of gay parents to have married parents .

That is the only effect on children from preventing a gay couple from marrying- ensuring that their children will not have married parents.

I'll be honest with you.

That would be a first- but I don't believe it this time either.

 

[Syriusly]

Justice Kennedy has only opined about injury to children in regards to gay marriage in two cases- and in both cases- the immediate injury is to the children that you would prevent from having married parents

I'm sure you misunderstand Kennedy's sentiments towards children. I believe he is concerned about ANY child currently in his interpretation "in immediate legal harm" from being denied the benefits of marriage. I don't think Kennedy wishes any child to suffer...

I am always glad to revisit what Justice Kennedy has said regarding children being harmed by laws against gay marriage:

"DOMA instructs all federal officials, and indeed all persons with whom same-sex couples interact, including their own children, that their marriage is less worthy than the marriages of others," the decision says, going on to conclude that the federal statute "is invalid, for no legitimate purpose overcomes the purpose and effect to disparage and injure those whom the State, by its marriage laws, sought to protect in personhood and dignity."

"There is an immediate legal injury and that's the voice of these children," he said. "There's some 40,000 children in California, according to the Red Brief, that live with same-sex parents, and they want their parents to have full recognition and full status. The voice of those children is important in this case, don't you think?"

 

[Syriusly]

vs the 100s of millions into the unforseeable future that will call "marriage" a home without both genders as role models...and those predictable bad effects.

What 'predictable side effects?

We know that there will be 'hundreds of millions of children' (since there are 4 million children born in the United States each year, we will suppose that Silhouette is projecting at least 40 years into the future when making this claim) who will be raised by single parents- without both genders as role models.

A homosexual household is just twice the number of the same gender. Twice the income security. Twice the potential number of parents to attend parent teacher conferences, be there when the kids come home from school.

IF Silhouette or any of the others really cared about what they claim to care about- then they would be focusing on single parents.

Since single parent households account for one quarter of all American households.

But as always- children are just a tool that Silhouette tries to exploit when attacking homosexuals.

 

[Silhouette]

A homosexual household is just twice the number of the same gender. Twice the income security. Twice the potential number of parents to attend parent teacher conferences, be there when the kids come home from school.

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While we're doing math, a homosexual household is also zero times the complimentary gender vital as a role model.

...just like single parent households (monosexuals)

And since both offer the same "balanced psychological environment" for kids in their formative years, why are all those tens of millions of kids in single parent homes currently under "immediate legal harm" from their parent not receiving the benefits of marriage?

 

[Silhouette]

Stemberger: U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida
....the recent court decisions that have invalidated Florida’s same-sex marriage ban are “illegitimate” and will be reversed if the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue...Five million voters have been overthrown by a handful of lawyers in black robes and I think this is not the way a democracy should work,’’..He said that the definition of marriage should be something that is decided at each state level and he hopes the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue. He predicted the high court will then vote 5-4 for a ruling that determines that, unlike Roe v. Wade before it, same-sex marriage is a states’s rights issue.... Stemberger U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida Naked Politics ...He said that of the 35 states that have allowed same-sex marriages in some way, only 11 of them have gone through “a legitimate process” that includes a popular vote or law enacted by a legislative body. “It’s one thing to have bad public policy. It’s another thing to have an illegitimate process,’’ he said. “This adds to the illegitimacy of government. It undermines the respect people have for government.”

And I should care what John Steinberger thinks because......

Because he's right?

 

[Skylar]

Stemberger: U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida
....the recent court decisions that have invalidated Florida’s same-sex marriage ban are “illegitimate” and will be reversed if the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue...Five million voters have been overthrown by a handful of lawyers in black robes and I think this is not the way a democracy should work,’’..He said that the definition of marriage should be something that is decided at each state level and he hopes the U.S. Supreme Court takes up the issue. He predicted the high court will then vote 5-4 for a ruling that determines that, unlike Roe v. Wade before it, same-sex marriage is a states’s rights issue.... Stemberger U.S. Supreme Court could reverse same-sex marriages in Florida Naked Politics ...He said that of the 35 states that have allowed same-sex marriages in some way, only 11 of them have gone through “a legitimate process” that includes a popular vote or law enacted by a legislative body. “It’s one thing to have bad public policy. It’s another thing to have an illegitimate process,’’ he said. “This adds to the illegitimacy of government. It undermines the respect people have for government.”

And I should care what John Steinberger thinks because......

Because he's right?

Save that he's not. As the courts protecting the rights of federal citizens is entirely legitimate.

 

[Skylar]

A homosexual household is just twice the number of the same gender. Twice the income security. Twice the potential number of parents to attend parent teacher conferences, be there when the kids come home from school.

.

While we're doing math, a homosexual household is also zero times the complimentary gender vital as a role model.

...just like single parent households (monosexuals)

And since both offer the same "balanced psychological environment" for kids in their formative years, why are all those tens of millions of kids in single parent homes currently under "immediate legal harm" from their parent not receiving the benefits of marriage?

You're offering us your personal opinion of hypothetical harm. While ignoring the enormous and immediate benefits of having two parents, and the immediate harm caused to the children of same sex couples when their parents are denied their right to marry.

Hypothetical harm based in personal opinion is utterly trumped by real benefit and immediate harm.

 

[Silhouette]

You're offering us your personal opinion of hypothetical harm. While ignoring the enormous and immediate benefits of having two parents, and the immediate harm caused to the children of same sex couples when their parents are denied their right to marry.

Hypothetical harm based in personal opinion is utterly trumped by real benefit and immediate harm.

You can have fifty lesbians or gays as parent in a home, but that still does not supply a child's vital complimentary-gendered adult role model "as parent". Like I said, gay marraige harms kids in that it guarantees to offer them the deficiency of that gender 100% of the time. And 50% of the time that gender missing will be the child's own...

Structurally, homosexual marriage offers no more to children's formative environment than single parents (monosexuals)..

 

[Skylar]

You can have fifty lesbians or gays as parent in a home, but that still does not supply a child's vital complimentary-gendered adult role model "as parent".

The 'vital complimentary role model' angle is your opinion. And you're more than welcome to it. But you're speaking of hypothetical harm that you can't factually establish.

The benefits of 2 parents is enormous, real, and undeniable. Likewise, the harm caused to the children of same sex parents is immediate and real if they're parents aren't allowed to marry.

Your opinion vs. enormous benefit and immediate harm has the same winner. And its not your opinion.

 

[Syriusly]

A homosexual household is just twice the number of the same gender. Twice the income security. Twice the potential number of parents to attend parent teacher conferences, be there when the kids come home from school.

.

While we're doing math, a homosexual household is also zero times the complimentary gender vital as a role model.

...just like single parent households (monosexuals)

And since both offer the same "balanced psychological environment" for kids in their formative years, why are all those tens of millions of kids in single parent homes currently under "immediate legal harm" from their parent not receiving the benefits of marriage?

Okay first of all- a single parent may or may not be a monosexual-- look up the damn definition.

Secondly everything else being equal- children with a two parent household have greater economic and food security than children in a single parent household.

I have nothing but respect for single mom's and dad's who struggle to raise their kids- to earn enough to support them and fit in time for actual parenting.

I would love to be able to ensure that single parents could be part of a a two parent household.

You however- specifically do not want a two parent household only if the two parents are the same gender.

Like I said- the issue of children is just a tool for you to use to advocate discrimination against homosexuals.

 

[Syriusly]

Structurally, homosexual marriage offers no more to children's formative environment than single parents (monosexuals)..

Every time you make crap up like this it is more and more apparent that you are not- and have never been a parent.

Really- you have no idea about parenting- you have no concept of what children do or do not need.

But as a parent, who is grateful that I have a partner in my marriage to share in raising our child, I can see how hard it is for single parents to raise kids on their own.

Really think about this- you aren't married- but you want to tell us what marriage is- and is not.

You aren't a parent- and you want to tell us what is and what is not necessary for good parenting.

And the only homosexual you claim to have ever known you are convinced was a serial killer- and that is what you base your entire world view on homosexual upon.

 

[Silhouette]

Every time you make crap up like this it is more and more apparent that you are not- and have never been a parent.

Really- you have no idea about parenting- you have no concept of what children do or do not need.

Teens without parent role model are 67 per cent less likely to get a job Daily Mail Online

Young men with no male role models in their lives and women without a mother figure struggle to keep their lives on track, a hard-hitting report warns today. The Prince’s Trust youth index, the largest survey of its kind, found that....67 per cent more likely to be unemployed than their counterparts. They are also significantly more likely to stay unemployed for longer than their peers, the report suggests....It found that young men with no male role model are 50 per cent more likely to abuse drugs and young females in the corresponding position are significantly more likely to drink to excess..

Young men with no male role model to look up to were twice as likely to turn or consider turning to crime as a result of being unemployed...The report, which was based on interviews with 2,170 16 to 25-year-olds...These young men are also three times more likely to feel down or depressed all of the time and significantly more likely to admit that they cannot remember the last time they felt proud...They are also significantly less likely to feel happy and confident than those with male role models, according to the figures....The Prince’s Trust report, which was carried out by YouGov, suggests young people without male role models are more than twice as likely to lack a sense of belonging.

With no father to look to as he grew up, Arfan Naseer fell into a life of drugs and gangs...He even spent time in prison after becoming involved with the wrong crowd, impressed by their expensive cars and gangster lifestyle...He believes that if he had had a father or male role model to look up to, he would have seen the error of his ways at a much earlier age.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Every time you make crap up like this it is more and more apparent that you are not- and have never been a parent.

Really- you have no idea about parenting- you have no concept of what children do or do not need.

Teens without parent role model are 67 per cent less likely to get a job Daily Mail Online

Young men with no male role models in their lives and women without a mother figure struggle to keep their lives on track, a hard-hitting report warns today. The Prince’s Trust youth index, the largest survey of its kind, found that....67 per cent more likely to be unemployed than their counterparts. They are also significantly more likely to stay unemployed for longer than their peers, the report suggests....It found that young men with no male role model are 50 per cent more likely to abuse drugs and young females in the corresponding position are significantly more likely to drink to excess..

Young men with no male role model to look up to were twice as likely to turn or consider turning to crime as a result of being unemployed...The report, which was based on interviews with 2,170 16 to 25-year-olds...These young men are also three times more likely to feel down or depressed all of the time and significantly more likely to admit that they cannot remember the last time they felt proud...They are also significantly less likely to feel happy and confident than those with male role models, according to the figures....The Prince’s Trust report, which was carried out by YouGov, suggests young people without male role models are more than twice as likely to lack a sense of belonging.

With no father to look to as he grew up, Arfan Naseer fell into a life of drugs and gangs...He even spent time in prison after becoming involved with the wrong crowd, impressed by their expensive cars and gangster lifestyle...He believes that if he had had a father or male role model to look up to, he would have seen the error of his ways at a much earlier age.

Well with two dads they will be twice as good eh?

 

[Silhouette]

Well with two dads they will be twice as good eh?

Nope, the article says that missing a mom for a girl means she'll likely be depressed & wind up a problem drinker...and will feel a sense of not belonging..

Statistically, "Same sex marriage" means a hard life for the kids involved...

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Well with two dads they will be twice as good eh?

Nope, the article says that missing a mom for a girl means she'll likely be depressed & wind up a problem drinker...and will feel a sense of not belonging..

Since most little girls are through with mommy by age eight or so, and then all they do is fight for 12 years, I would imagine most will survive.

 

[Skylar]

"The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way," she tells WebMD. "In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures.....

...."Some studies showed that single heterosexual parents' children have more difficulties than children who have parents of the same sex," Perrin says. "They did better in discipline, self-esteem, and had less psychosocial difficulties at home and at school."

Kids Of Same-Sex Parents Do Fine - CBS News

One area the researchers found no differences in was the mental health of children or their quality of relationship with parents. Children brought up by lesbians and gay men are well-adjusted, have good levels of self-esteem and are as likely to have high educational attainments as children raised in more traditional heterosexual families.

“Levels of anxiety, depression, self-esteem and other measures of social and psychological behaviors were generally similar,” Biblarz said. “While all children probably get teased for one thing or another, children with gay parents may experience a higher degree of teasing and ridicule. It is impressive then that their psychological well-being and social adjustment does not significantly differ, on average, from that of children in comparable heterosexual-parent families. Exploring how lesbian and gay parent families help children cope with stigma could prove helpful to all kinds of families.”

Sociology Study examines gender roles of children with gay parents USC News

Psychological adjustment of children raised lesbian and gay families is really no different than children in straight families. All the studies, no matter how people did the research found the same thing, which is that kids are not disadvantaged by being raised in lesbian and gay parent families. There might even be particular areas where they have strengths, it just depends on how you look at the research.

Interview with Lesbian and Gay Parenting Expert Dr. Abbie Goldberg
Dr Abbie Goldberg

So when we're addressing the mental health of children raised in gay families without 'complimentary gender roles', we find excellent results. Comparable with straight hetero parents.

With some studies showing that single heterosexual parents' children have more difficulties than children who have parents of the same sex. They did better in discipline, self-esteem, and had less psychosocial difficulties at home and at school.

Two parents apparently makes all the difference.

 

[Skylar]

And just to give you a scope of how many children this potentially effects;

In the 2000 Census, 594,391 households self-identified as same-sex unmarried partners with roughly 27% reporting children as part of that household.

That's before any marriage for gays in any state. Gays and lesbians are already having kids. By the hundreds of thousands. The question left would be 'is it better for those children if their parents were married, or if they were not'.

And its a question that gay marriage advocates won't touch with a 10 foot pole. But the USSC already has, citing the harm caused to those children when the marriages of their parents aren't recognized.