Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other?

[PredFan]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

You must understand. The man you are talking to claims to have pissed all over a Starbucks restroom because he doesn't like transgendered people. The left made him do it.

Not in the least bit true. But you have to lie don't you? Lies are all you have.

 

[flacaltenn]

Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.

What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.

I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.

In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.

What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.

Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.

This is largely because Government is outside it's bounds. Partisans meddle in issues they desire to meddle in -- not as a set of priorities. The country has largely been on auto-pilot since 2000. Congress doesn't write laws anymore. They write huge FORMS with blanks to be filled in by unaccountable minions of bureaucrats. These excersizes (like Dodd-Frank and ObamaCare ) are subject to "on the fly" decrees by the exec branch or some agency. And they go ON and ON and ON and never call it done. Creating uncertainty for biz, and for you.

The media is the other problem. Same damn talking heads WEEK after WEEK.. Because journalist today are LAZY and stupid and their product "scripted".. Never help RESOLVE any issues by going to the hard stuff. Finding the RIGHT experts and doing some math. They think you're too stupid if any primary is an "open primary" or "winner take all" or where the missing percentages in their election night coverage went. I watch INCREDUKLOUSLY for some time the night of the W.VA. because the vote totals were missing about 15%.. You're too stupid to care why OR the folks pounding this horse can't add.

We are divided because many of us can't tolerate a "don't care" attitude about Benghazi or gross mishandling of classified documents by a Prez wannabee. Those folks see a general decline in the ETHICAL standards of government. A bathroom law that protects a class of people WITHOUT a method of identifying WHO belongs to that class is great example of lazy work ethic from government, And we are divided because other folks are feeding that division with class, race, income, sex, and other DIVISIVE shit they can conjure up.


The whole Federal process is severely broken, Congress is irrelevant, the media is useless and the 2 parties are stoking a meaningless McCoy - Hatfield feud.. Other than that ---------


........................................... everything's peachy....

Now we have something we disagree on and I like that. I don't think the system is broken. Representative democracy is a good system. The problem is the employees. Government is only as lazy and ineffective as the people we elect to do the job of governing. Government can be an engine of good, a place where ideas come together and are debated and discussed until the best version of the best idea becomes law

Uh.. No sir. .The PROCESS is broken. I illustrated that with the important fact that Congress no longer RESEARCHES before they write laws. They write BLANK checks to the agencies who supply their "research" with phoney or suspicious government numbers and estimates.

Another MAJOR problem is that only 4 party Elites RUN the Congress. No office, no pencils, no assignments if you cross these VERY partisan bosses. Nothing comes out of committee or goes to a vote without their direction.

Congress is also completely POWERLESS to excercise it's oversight duties on OPERATING programs or scandals. They are completely NEUTERED by the minions of the damned. They cannot get vital answers or responsibility from the Bureaucratic mammoth. It's gone feral..

Can I go on? Of course. But I want to see how naive you are about recognizing how broken this whole Republic is right now.. And you have a long road to hoe if you don't see WHERE all this class, sex, racial division is coming from.....

 

[Nicholas_1982]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

True but also in real life we are not as divided as the OP says. There are however, divisions. You can see them in the news. Black Lives Matter, LGBT, just to name the ones currently in the news.

Yeah, no one from those groups you just listed has ever had any sort of impact on my life directly.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Some more based on health care. Are these facts?

The ACA is a plan that is based on a plan once promoted by conservatives in the Heritage Foundation and it represents a compromise on the part of liberal members of congress and President Obama.


There are no death panels associated with the ACA.


Medical cost bankruptcies have declined since the ACA was passed.

The ACA actually very much mirrors the healthcare plan Bob Dole ran on as republican back in 1996

We are making progress. We can have a good discussion if we can just establish certain things as fact.....and not waste time debating them.

If you can get people to,do that....you'll get your wish.

Now that being said, I do not believe that the ACA is a good healthcare law

Well...that is opinion. As long as facts are used to reach it....it will be valid and can be supported in a debate.

 

[PredFan]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

True but also in real life we are not as divided as the OP says. There are however, divisions. You can see them in the news. Black Lives Matter, LGBT, just to name the ones currently in the news.

Yeah, no one from those groups you just listed has ever had any sort of impact on my life directly.

So, what you are saying is that if it doesn't affect you, it doesn't exist?

 

[Nicholas_1982]

Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.

What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.

I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.

In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.

What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.

Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.

This is largely because Government is outside it's bounds. Partisans meddle in issues they desire to meddle in -- not as a set of priorities. The country has largely been on auto-pilot since 2000. Congress doesn't write laws anymore. They write huge FORMS with blanks to be filled in by unaccountable minions of bureaucrats. These excersizes (like Dodd-Frank and ObamaCare ) are subject to "on the fly" decrees by the exec branch or some agency. And they go ON and ON and ON and never call it done. Creating uncertainty for biz, and for you.

The media is the other problem. Same damn talking heads WEEK after WEEK.. Because journalist today are LAZY and stupid and their product "scripted".. Never help RESOLVE any issues by going to the hard stuff. Finding the RIGHT experts and doing some math. They think you're too stupid if any primary is an "open primary" or "winner take all" or where the missing percentages in their election night coverage went. I watch INCREDUKLOUSLY for some time the night of the W.VA. because the vote totals were missing about 15%.. You're too stupid to care why OR the folks pounding this horse can't add.

We are divided because many of us can't tolerate a "don't care" attitude about Benghazi or gross mishandling of classified documents by a Prez wannabee. Those folks see a general decline in the ETHICAL standards of government. A bathroom law that protects a class of people WITHOUT a method of identifying WHO belongs to that class is great example of lazy work ethic from government, And we are divided because other folks are feeding that division with class, race, income, sex, and other DIVISIVE shit they can conjure up.


The whole Federal process is severely broken, Congress is irrelevant, the media is useless and the 2 parties are stoking a meaningless McCoy - Hatfield feud.. Other than that ---------


........................................... everything's peachy....

Now we have something we disagree on and I like that. I don't think the system is broken. Representative democracy is a good system. The problem is the employees. Government is only as lazy and ineffective as the people we elect to do the job of governing. Government can be an engine of good, a place where ideas come together and are debated and discussed until the best version of the best idea becomes law

Uh.. No sir. .The PROCESS is broken. I illustrated that with the important fact that Congress no longer RESEARCHES before they write laws. They write BLANK checks to the agencies who supply their "research" with phoney or suspicious government numbers and estimates.

Another MAJOR problem is that only 4 party Elites RUN the Congress. No office, no pencils, no assignments if you cross these VERY partisan bosses. Nothing comes out of committee or goes to a vote without their direction.

Congress is also completely POWERLESS to excercise it's oversight duties on OPERATING programs or scandals. They are completely NEUTERED by the minions of the damned. They cannot get vital answers or responsibility from the Bureaucratic mammoth. It's gone feral..

Can I go on? Of course. But I want to see how naive you are about recognizing how broken this whole Republic is right now.. And you have a long road to hoe if you don't see WHERE all this class, sex, racial division is coming from.....

You are mistaken. men and women in congress no longer research before writing laws. Congress isn't some robot, its a collection of people. and the majority of people we have elected CHOOSE not to work for the vast majoprity of its constituents. again this problem could be solved by electing better human beings to represent us

 

[LoneLaugher]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

You must understand. The man you are talking to claims to have pissed all over a Starbucks restroom because he doesn't like transgendered people. The left made him do it.

Not in the least bit true. But you have to lie don't you? Lies are all you have.

Yeah...I know you didn't actually do it. You just claimed you did. It's because you are fine with transgendered people. Right?

 

[Nicholas_1982]

No, thats not what I am saying. what I am saying is that you are conflating an issue and making it more important than it actually is. Sure there are fringe movements with no real power in america. yes they impact some people but as i said a larger majority of the population in America have more things uniting us than dividing us

 

[thereisnospoon]

who is you? I am not the IRS or president Obama. I don't collect revenue. I collect a paycheck.

I just said healthcare isn't solved. Let's talk solutions

Ah, so you're a wage slave..

And you do....what?
Wage slave. What an asshole.

 

[PredFan]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

You must understand. The man you are talking to claims to have pissed all over a Starbucks restroom because he doesn't like transgendered people. The left made him do it.

Not in the least bit true. But you have to lie don't you? Lies are all you have.

Yeah...I know you didn't actually do it. You just claimed you did. It's because you are fine with transgendered people. Right?

No, you stupid liar, I said I did it and I did. You lied about the reasons I did it. You are nothing but a Lying left wing nutjob. Nothing you say is ever the truth. That fact has been proven over and over.

Lies like this are all you ever have.

 

[Nicholas_1982]

Some more based on health care. Are these facts?

The ACA is a plan that is based on a plan once promoted by conservatives in the Heritage Foundation and it represents a compromise on the part of liberal members of congress and President Obama.


There are no death panels associated with the ACA.


Medical cost bankruptcies have declined since the ACA was passed.

The ACA actually very much mirrors the healthcare plan Bob Dole ran on as republican back in 1996

We are making progress. We can have a good discussion if we can just establish certain things as fact.....and not waste time debating them.

If you can get people to,do that....you'll get your wish.

Now that being said, I do not believe that the ACA is a good healthcare law

Well...that is opinion. As long as facts are used to reach it....it will be valid and can be supported in a debate.

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

True but also in real life we are not as divided as the OP says. There are however, divisions. You can see them in the news. Black Lives Matter, LGBT, just to name the ones currently in the news.

Yeah, no one from those groups you just listed has ever had any sort of impact on my life directly.

So, what you are saying is that if it doesn't affect you, it doesn't exist?

Me personally, if my tax dollars are going to subsidize someones healthcare then I would prefer it subsidize my own. JFK gave a very moving speech about 50ish years ago on universal single payer healthcare. I think its time we give that a shot. we tried private insurance and that failed many people. we have been trying subsidized private insurance and that has only had slightly better results

 

[PredFan]

No, thats not what I am saying. what I am saying is that you are conflating an issue and making it more important than it actually is. Sure there are fringe movements with no real power in america. yes they impact some people but as i said a larger majority of the population in America have more things uniting us than dividing us

Undoubtably, yet you must know that these divisions exist right?

 

[Moonglow]

Oh and I forgot my FAVORITE issue. Liberals get pissed when a bakery won't make a gay cake and conservatives get pissed when a bakery won't make a racist cake.

You people do realize eating a cake doesn't affect your right to be gay or racist?

It's not the baking of the cake which has people at odds, it's the whey they are decorated..

I am aware, the point is that liberals and conservatives are on the same side of this debate. When the Indiana bakery refused to bake cakes for gay couples getting married the liberal media threw a fit. When a walmart baker refused to bake a cake with the confederate flag on it conservatives threw a fit. What both sides fail to see is that they are in esence making the same arguement. A bakery owned by a private citizen should be allowed to make or not make whatever cake they want. If conservatives insist that wal mart make racist cakes then indiana bakery has to make gay cakes, and vice versa

Sure, but it must be done with intentional tact,to avoid laws...

I don't understand the point of that collection of words. can you rephrase

Yes, one must foresee the liability of their actions in business, and limit how they serve customers...Those that cater are more open to liability issues..Wal Mart does it by saying, you can buy a cake and have it decorated, but only what is in their cataloger of finished cakes, all others are denied due to inability to fulfill, because it is not a custom cake making place..
But Wal-Mart does not care if you have ghey sex with the cake..because they don't cater...

 

[Manonthestreet]

Some more based on health care. Are these facts?

The ACA is a plan that is based on a plan once promoted by conservatives in the Heritage Foundation and it represents a compromise on the part of liberal members of congress and President Obama.


There are no death panels associated with the ACA.


Medical cost bankruptcies have declined since the ACA was passed.

The ACA actually very much mirrors the healthcare plan Bob Dole ran on as republican back in 1996

We are making progress. We can have a good discussion if we can just establish certain things as fact.....and not waste time debating them.

If you can get people to,do that....you'll get your wish.

Now that being said, I do not believe that the ACA is a good healthcare law

Well...that is opinion. As long as facts are used to reach it....it will be valid and can be supported in a debate.

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

True but also in real life we are not as divided as the OP says. There are however, divisions. You can see them in the news. Black Lives Matter, LGBT, just to name the ones currently in the news.

Yeah, no one from those groups you just listed has ever had any sort of impact on my life directly.

So, what you are saying is that if it doesn't affect you, it doesn't exist?

Me personally, if my tax dollars are going to subsidize someones healthcare then I would prefer it subsidize my own. JFK gave a very moving speech about 50ish years ago on universal single payer healthcare. I think its time we give that a shot. we tried private insurance and that failed many people. we have been trying subsidized private insurance and that has only had slightly better results

I prefer you leave me out of your one size fits all madness

 

[flacaltenn]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

True but also in real life we are not as divided as the OP says. There are however, divisions. You can see them in the news. Black Lives Matter, LGBT, just to name the ones currently in the news.

Yeah, no one from those groups you just listed has ever had any sort of impact on my life directly.

That's a strange attitude. ISIS has no direct impact on my life -- but it is a major concern to all of us. You must think there's only 2 senators that have any effect on your life and the other 48 are irrelevant. THERE'S where the division comes about. Because events like Ferguson and Baltimore are how politicians demagogue their way to power. And how over-reach by the Feds in matters like these tend to GROW out of proportion to the actual NEEDS of this country..

 

[Nicholas_1982]

Oh and I forgot my FAVORITE issue. Liberals get pissed when a bakery won't make a gay cake and conservatives get pissed when a bakery won't make a racist cake.

You people do realize eating a cake doesn't affect your right to be gay or racist?

It's not the baking of the cake which has people at odds, it's the whey they are decorated..

I am aware, the point is that liberals and conservatives are on the same side of this debate. When the Indiana bakery refused to bake cakes for gay couples getting married the liberal media threw a fit. When a walmart baker refused to bake a cake with the confederate flag on it conservatives threw a fit. What both sides fail to see is that they are in esence making the same arguement. A bakery owned by a private citizen should be allowed to make or not make whatever cake they want. If conservatives insist that wal mart make racist cakes then indiana bakery has to make gay cakes, and vice versa

Sure, but it must be done with intentional tact,to avoid laws...

I don't understand the point of that collection of words. can you rephrase

Yes, one must foresee the liability of their actions in business, and limit how they serve customers...Those that cater are more open to liability issues..Wal Mart does it by saying, you can buy a cake and have it decorated, but only what is in their cataloger of finished cakes, all others are denied due to inability to fulfill, because it is not a custom cake making place..
But Wal-Mart does not care if you have ghey sex with the cake..because they don't cater...

you win, you roped me into a conversation I care nothing about. I don't care who bakes what cake and who refuses to bake a cake. I don't care who uses what bathroom or who doesn't use what bathroom.

althiough if we are going to pass bathroom laws i would much rather a law be passed that prohibits sex offenders from using any public bathrooms, thats seems like the real threat

 

[Nicholas_1982]

The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.

I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us

True but also in real life we are not as divided as the OP says. There are however, divisions. You can see them in the news. Black Lives Matter, LGBT, just to name the ones currently in the news.

Yeah, no one from those groups you just listed has ever had any sort of impact on my life directly.

That's a strange attitude. ISIS has no direct impact on my life -- but it is a major concern to all of us. You must think there's only 2 senators that have any effect on your life and the other 48 are irrelevant. THERE'S where the division comes about. Because events like Ferguson and Baltimore are how politicians demagogue their way to power. And how over-reach by the Feds in matters like these tend to GROW out of proportion to the actual NEEDS of this country..

Did you honestly just equate me caring about BLM to me caring about ISIS? thats impressive. and no, i actually do have strong opinions on how to deal with ISIS because terrorism is serious business. People shouting hillary clinton and bernie sanders off stage isnt even in the same ballpark

 

[Moonglow]

who is you? I am not the IRS or president Obama. I don't collect revenue. I collect a paycheck.

I just said healthcare isn't solved. Let's talk solutions

Ah, so you're a wage slave..

And you do....what?
Wage slave. What an asshole.

Evidently jocular retorts escape you...

 

[Moonglow]

It's not the baking of the cake which has people at odds, it's the whey they are decorated..

I am aware, the point is that liberals and conservatives are on the same side of this debate. When the Indiana bakery refused to bake cakes for gay couples getting married the liberal media threw a fit. When a walmart baker refused to bake a cake with the confederate flag on it conservatives threw a fit. What both sides fail to see is that they are in esence making the same arguement. A bakery owned by a private citizen should be allowed to make or not make whatever cake they want. If conservatives insist that wal mart make racist cakes then indiana bakery has to make gay cakes, and vice versa

Sure, but it must be done with intentional tact,to avoid laws...

I don't understand the point of that collection of words. can you rephrase

Yes, one must foresee the liability of their actions in business, and limit how they serve customers...Those that cater are more open to liability issues..Wal Mart does it by saying, you can buy a cake and have it decorated, but only what is in their cataloger of finished cakes, all others are denied due to inability to fulfill, because it is not a custom cake making place..
But Wal-Mart does not care if you have ghey sex with the cake..because they don't cater...

you win, you roped me into a conversation I care nothing about. I don't care who bakes what cake and who refuses to bake a cake. I don't care who uses what bathroom or who doesn't use what bathroom.

althiough if we are going to pass bathroom laws i would much rather a law be passed that prohibits sex offenders from using any public bathrooms, thats seems like the real threat

I run my business to make money..I don't care what you do in your bedroom, my motivation is to make money by giving a service...A dollar from a ghey person is as good as a dollar from a straight person...

 

[Nicholas_1982]

I am aware, the point is that liberals and conservatives are on the same side of this debate. When the Indiana bakery refused to bake cakes for gay couples getting married the liberal media threw a fit. When a walmart baker refused to bake a cake with the confederate flag on it conservatives threw a fit. What both sides fail to see is that they are in esence making the same arguement. A bakery owned by a private citizen should be allowed to make or not make whatever cake they want. If conservatives insist that wal mart make racist cakes then indiana bakery has to make gay cakes, and vice versa

Sure, but it must be done with intentional tact,to avoid laws...

I don't understand the point of that collection of words. can you rephrase

Yes, one must foresee the liability of their actions in business, and limit how they serve customers...Those that cater are more open to liability issues..Wal Mart does it by saying, you can buy a cake and have it decorated, but only what is in their cataloger of finished cakes, all others are denied due to inability to fulfill, because it is not a custom cake making place..
But Wal-Mart does not care if you have ghey sex with the cake..because they don't cater...

you win, you roped me into a conversation I care nothing about. I don't care who bakes what cake and who refuses to bake a cake. I don't care who uses what bathroom or who doesn't use what bathroom.

althiough if we are going to pass bathroom laws i would much rather a law be passed that prohibits sex offenders from using any public bathrooms, thats seems like the real threat

I run my business to make money..I don't care what you do in your bedroom, my motivation is to make money by giving a service...A dollar from a ghey person is as good as a dollar from a straight person...

so then I assume we agree that the cake and bathroom fights that have garnered so much media attention are pointless and have no value