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What you're describing is the kind of simplistic, shallow, binary thinking that has so infected our political "discourse", and it's now essentially standard operating procedure on both ends of the spectrum, a reflexive behavior. Everything you listed could be turned around into the other direction and it would also be accurate.Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.
What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.
I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.
In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.
What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.
Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.
I think politicians deliberately focus on social issues to keep attention away from national security, the deficit, the economy and open borders.
The left has been getting people riled by inciting class wars (tax the evil wealthy and give it back to the rightful owners who never earned it) and race wars by vilifying cops and claiming it's racist to want secure borders. Those issues are the most divisive and it's working.
Welfare people don't really worry about the economy and maybe don't understand it. They understand that some have more than them and they've been taught to believe that isn't fair.
Blacks are angrier than ever at whites, especially cops. In the absence of racism, the race baiters found a new way to declare people guilty- white privilege. You're white, you're privileged. Case closed. Now make reparations.
People are concerned about crime and terrorism. Too many think that all the new laws only affect criminals and terrorists. Meanwhile, the innocent have less liberty and freedom and the bad guys carry on. How many terrorists have been caught by TSA? How many innocent people have been harassed by TSA?
So many big problems that people should agree are problems. Funny that the right is worried about ISIS while the left believes they aren't a problem.
The right believes small businesses going bankrupt is a problem and the left thinks government programs are better than the private sector.
The differences are most often due to the remedies for problems. Poor? Well, some education and a job would do the trick, along with some aid during the process. It would seem a good compromise. Help people, but slowly get them off the doles. I don't understand why the continued debate on that one.
Speaking of debate, the global warming science should be debated until we get rid of all the skewed science. The proposed solutions should be heavily debated.
I hear that people who work should be able to make a living. I worked as a waitress as a teen. No way in hell would that salary be enough to pay rent, utilities, food and other expenses. Wasn't meant to since it was a starter job. My real job paid the bills just fine, but that was after experience, education and proving myself. No way would I have started a family before I was able to provide. Even though people can lose their jobs, welfare is there till they are back on their feet. It's easier to get back on your feet if you were independent before falling. Your first priority is planning for your future and making sure you have education and experience. Care about yourself enough to make the most of school. Gain experience through summer jobs. Make money and save money. If you quit school to have your baby and go on welfare, you may never get on your feet.
Again, it's how to handle the problems that separate the right and left. And it's understanding how government programs, like welfare, affect people, and even do harm in the long run.
If a politician needs poor people or 'victims' to ensure a victory, rest assured they will make sure there are plenty of victims to vote for them.
So because I make the claim that systemic and institutional racism exist I am fabricating a problem out of white guilt in order to divide people?
Do you even allow for the possibility that systemic and institutional racism do exist? Or does that idea offend your own agenda?
Can I claim that people are responsible for themselves while also recognizing that where you start in life impacts the ease or difficulty of the road you must travel to be successful?
Can I agree that as a nation we have an obligation to secure our borders while at the same time claiming that demonizing people trying to escape sex and drug trafficking aren't my enemy? Or does compassion make me guilty of dividing people?
Can I agree that we don't want perverted men using a women's bathroom while at the same time claiming that transgender people due face an unnecessary degree of shame and ridicule in some communities? Or does that make me a libtard?
Can I agree that government shouldn't impede economic progress while at the same time claim that government should prevent greed from becoming self destructive? Or does that make me a communist?
Can I agree that bigger government isn't necessarily a good thing but also claim there have been many times government action has been a net positive for our country?
Can I agree that we must face the threats of religious terrorism whole heartedly and with force while also claiming that war has become a business model for private defense profiteering? Or does that make me a muslim apologist?
Can I agree that armed criminals shouldn't shoot cops while at the same time claiming that cops shouldn't murder unarmed criminals? Or do only cops lives matter?
If you say this, you must also mean that. If you defend a person's right to feel this way, you must agree with what they're saying. Both sides do that, and when they do, the conversation goes right into the crapper. And once communication goes, so do the answers.
I don't know how this gets fixed. The obvious answer would be that enough respected "leaders" on both ends take a strong stand against the behavior, but to date, those "leaders" simply have not appeared.
The crazies are in charge right now. They can only see and argue "their side".
.
No, I was agreeing with you.What you're describing is the kind of simplistic, shallow, binary thinking that has so infected our political "discourse", and it's now essentially standard operating procedure on both ends of the spectrum, a reflexive behavior. Everything you listed could be turned around into the other direction and it would also be accurate.Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.
What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.
I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.
In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.
What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.
Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.
I think politicians deliberately focus on social issues to keep attention away from national security, the deficit, the economy and open borders.
The left has been getting people riled by inciting class wars (tax the evil wealthy and give it back to the rightful owners who never earned it) and race wars by vilifying cops and claiming it's racist to want secure borders. Those issues are the most divisive and it's working.
Welfare people don't really worry about the economy and maybe don't understand it. They understand that some have more than them and they've been taught to believe that isn't fair.
Blacks are angrier than ever at whites, especially cops. In the absence of racism, the race baiters found a new way to declare people guilty- white privilege. You're white, you're privileged. Case closed. Now make reparations.
People are concerned about crime and terrorism. Too many think that all the new laws only affect criminals and terrorists. Meanwhile, the innocent have less liberty and freedom and the bad guys carry on. How many terrorists have been caught by TSA? How many innocent people have been harassed by TSA?
So many big problems that people should agree are problems. Funny that the right is worried about ISIS while the left believes they aren't a problem.
The right believes small businesses going bankrupt is a problem and the left thinks government programs are better than the private sector.
The differences are most often due to the remedies for problems. Poor? Well, some education and a job would do the trick, along with some aid during the process. It would seem a good compromise. Help people, but slowly get them off the doles. I don't understand why the continued debate on that one.
Speaking of debate, the global warming science should be debated until we get rid of all the skewed science. The proposed solutions should be heavily debated.
I hear that people who work should be able to make a living. I worked as a waitress as a teen. No way in hell would that salary be enough to pay rent, utilities, food and other expenses. Wasn't meant to since it was a starter job. My real job paid the bills just fine, but that was after experience, education and proving myself. No way would I have started a family before I was able to provide. Even though people can lose their jobs, welfare is there till they are back on their feet. It's easier to get back on your feet if you were independent before falling. Your first priority is planning for your future and making sure you have education and experience. Care about yourself enough to make the most of school. Gain experience through summer jobs. Make money and save money. If you quit school to have your baby and go on welfare, you may never get on your feet.
Again, it's how to handle the problems that separate the right and left. And it's understanding how government programs, like welfare, affect people, and even do harm in the long run.
If a politician needs poor people or 'victims' to ensure a victory, rest assured they will make sure there are plenty of victims to vote for them.
So because I make the claim that systemic and institutional racism exist I am fabricating a problem out of white guilt in order to divide people?
Do you even allow for the possibility that systemic and institutional racism do exist? Or does that idea offend your own agenda?
Can I claim that people are responsible for themselves while also recognizing that where you start in life impacts the ease or difficulty of the road you must travel to be successful?
Can I agree that as a nation we have an obligation to secure our borders while at the same time claiming that demonizing people trying to escape sex and drug trafficking aren't my enemy? Or does compassion make me guilty of dividing people?
Can I agree that we don't want perverted men using a women's bathroom while at the same time claiming that transgender people due face an unnecessary degree of shame and ridicule in some communities? Or does that make me a libtard?
Can I agree that government shouldn't impede economic progress while at the same time claim that government should prevent greed from becoming self destructive? Or does that make me a communist?
Can I agree that bigger government isn't necessarily a good thing but also claim there have been many times government action has been a net positive for our country?
Can I agree that we must face the threats of religious terrorism whole heartedly and with force while also claiming that war has become a business model for private defense profiteering? Or does that make me a muslim apologist?
Can I agree that armed criminals shouldn't shoot cops while at the same time claiming that cops shouldn't murder unarmed criminals? Or do only cops lives matter?
If you say this, you must also mean that. If you defend a person's right to feel this way, you must agree with what they're saying. Both sides do that, and when they do, the conversation goes right into the crapper. And once communication goes, so do the answers.
I don't know how this gets fixed. The obvious answer would be that enough respected "leaders" on both ends take a strong stand against the behavior, but to date, those "leaders" simply have not appeared.
The crazies are in charge right now. They can only see and argue "their side".
.
Did you really accuse me of being simple minded? I really don't think any responses or arguments I have made here have been simple minded.
And I also don't see how anything I have said is hurting our discourse. But please do elaborate on the specific problems you think I am ignoring or being simple minded about
Ok yeah I looked it up, Saudi Prince is #2 investor at fox news. behind rupert murdoch
I've heard that from a lot of right wingers. What reason do you think liberals might have to do something like that? Do you think we want to lower our own standard of living, and why would we want to do that?Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other ?
The answer is simple,: the liberals in this country are trying to turn the USA into a piss ass degenerate Venezuela where any perversion goes.
No, I was agreeing with you.What you're describing is the kind of simplistic, shallow, binary thinking that has so infected our political "discourse", and it's now essentially standard operating procedure on both ends of the spectrum, a reflexive behavior. Everything you listed could be turned around into the other direction and it would also be accurate.Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.
What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.
I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.
In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.
What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.
Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.
I think politicians deliberately focus on social issues to keep attention away from national security, the deficit, the economy and open borders.
The left has been getting people riled by inciting class wars (tax the evil wealthy and give it back to the rightful owners who never earned it) and race wars by vilifying cops and claiming it's racist to want secure borders. Those issues are the most divisive and it's working.
Welfare people don't really worry about the economy and maybe don't understand it. They understand that some have more than them and they've been taught to believe that isn't fair.
Blacks are angrier than ever at whites, especially cops. In the absence of racism, the race baiters found a new way to declare people guilty- white privilege. You're white, you're privileged. Case closed. Now make reparations.
People are concerned about crime and terrorism. Too many think that all the new laws only affect criminals and terrorists. Meanwhile, the innocent have less liberty and freedom and the bad guys carry on. How many terrorists have been caught by TSA? How many innocent people have been harassed by TSA?
So many big problems that people should agree are problems. Funny that the right is worried about ISIS while the left believes they aren't a problem.
The right believes small businesses going bankrupt is a problem and the left thinks government programs are better than the private sector.
The differences are most often due to the remedies for problems. Poor? Well, some education and a job would do the trick, along with some aid during the process. It would seem a good compromise. Help people, but slowly get them off the doles. I don't understand why the continued debate on that one.
Speaking of debate, the global warming science should be debated until we get rid of all the skewed science. The proposed solutions should be heavily debated.
I hear that people who work should be able to make a living. I worked as a waitress as a teen. No way in hell would that salary be enough to pay rent, utilities, food and other expenses. Wasn't meant to since it was a starter job. My real job paid the bills just fine, but that was after experience, education and proving myself. No way would I have started a family before I was able to provide. Even though people can lose their jobs, welfare is there till they are back on their feet. It's easier to get back on your feet if you were independent before falling. Your first priority is planning for your future and making sure you have education and experience. Care about yourself enough to make the most of school. Gain experience through summer jobs. Make money and save money. If you quit school to have your baby and go on welfare, you may never get on your feet.
Again, it's how to handle the problems that separate the right and left. And it's understanding how government programs, like welfare, affect people, and even do harm in the long run.
If a politician needs poor people or 'victims' to ensure a victory, rest assured they will make sure there are plenty of victims to vote for them.
So because I make the claim that systemic and institutional racism exist I am fabricating a problem out of white guilt in order to divide people?
Do you even allow for the possibility that systemic and institutional racism do exist? Or does that idea offend your own agenda?
Can I claim that people are responsible for themselves while also recognizing that where you start in life impacts the ease or difficulty of the road you must travel to be successful?
Can I agree that as a nation we have an obligation to secure our borders while at the same time claiming that demonizing people trying to escape sex and drug trafficking aren't my enemy? Or does compassion make me guilty of dividing people?
Can I agree that we don't want perverted men using a women's bathroom while at the same time claiming that transgender people due face an unnecessary degree of shame and ridicule in some communities? Or does that make me a libtard?
Can I agree that government shouldn't impede economic progress while at the same time claim that government should prevent greed from becoming self destructive? Or does that make me a communist?
Can I agree that bigger government isn't necessarily a good thing but also claim there have been many times government action has been a net positive for our country?
Can I agree that we must face the threats of religious terrorism whole heartedly and with force while also claiming that war has become a business model for private defense profiteering? Or does that make me a muslim apologist?
Can I agree that armed criminals shouldn't shoot cops while at the same time claiming that cops shouldn't murder unarmed criminals? Or do only cops lives matter?
If you say this, you must also mean that. If you defend a person's right to feel this way, you must agree with what they're saying. Both sides do that, and when they do, the conversation goes right into the crapper. And once communication goes, so do the answers.
I don't know how this gets fixed. The obvious answer would be that enough respected "leaders" on both ends take a strong stand against the behavior, but to date, those "leaders" simply have not appeared.
The crazies are in charge right now. They can only see and argue "their side".
.
Did you really accuse me of being simple minded? I really don't think any responses or arguments I have made here have been simple minded.
And I also don't see how anything I have said is hurting our discourse. But please do elaborate on the specific problems you think I am ignoring or being simple minded about
Just pointing out that both ends of the spectrum do what you describe.
Many of their behaviors are very similar, ironically.
.
I've heard that from a lot of right wingers. What reason do you think liberals might have to do something like that? Do you think we want to lower our own standard of living, and why would we want to do that?Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other ?
The answer is simple,: the liberals in this country are trying to turn the USA into a piss ass degenerate Venezuela where any perversion goes.
Because in the 80s and 90s all we heard from the left was how unfair it was that the US only represented 18% of the world's population but
A) Controlled 66% of the world's wealth?
B) Used 40% of the world's energy?
etc..
That was the left crying out for WORLD redistribution and "social justice". Now that that's accomplished and Asia has developed and Africans want some modern age convienience and world nation "income gaps" have been reduced --- they want to do the same INSIDE America..
The left were CHAMPIONS of humbling American success in regards to the developing world. They WON that game. Now --- they whine about it. But their job is not done until outcomes are equalized and life and is made risk free for everyone.. So they LOVE low growth numbers. Because HIGH growth is "unsustainable" and bad for the planet.
Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other?
I've heard that from a lot of right wingers. What reason do you think liberals might have to do something like that? Do you think we want to lower our own standard of living, and why would we want to do that?Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other ?
The answer is simple,: the liberals in this country are trying to turn the USA into a piss ass degenerate Venezuela where any perversion goes.
Because in the 80s and 90s all we heard from the left was how unfair it was that the US only represented 18% of the world's population but
A) Controlled 66% of the world's wealth?
B) Used 40% of the world's energy?
etc..
That was the left crying out for WORLD redistribution and "social justice". Now that that's accomplished and Asia has developed and Africans want some modern age convienience and world nation "income gaps" have been reduced --- they want to do the same INSIDE America..
The left were CHAMPIONS of humbling American success in regards to the developing world. They WON that game. Now --- they whine about it. But their job is not done until outcomes are equalized and life and is made risk free for everyone.. So they LOVE low growth numbers. Because HIGH growth is "unsustainable" and bad for the planet.
No, I was agreeing with you.What you're describing is the kind of simplistic, shallow, binary thinking that has so infected our political "discourse", and it's now essentially standard operating procedure on both ends of the spectrum, a reflexive behavior. Everything you listed could be turned around into the other direction and it would also be accurate.I think politicians deliberately focus on social issues to keep attention away from national security, the deficit, the economy and open borders.
The left has been getting people riled by inciting class wars (tax the evil wealthy and give it back to the rightful owners who never earned it) and race wars by vilifying cops and claiming it's racist to want secure borders. Those issues are the most divisive and it's working.
Welfare people don't really worry about the economy and maybe don't understand it. They understand that some have more than them and they've been taught to believe that isn't fair.
Blacks are angrier than ever at whites, especially cops. In the absence of racism, the race baiters found a new way to declare people guilty- white privilege. You're white, you're privileged. Case closed. Now make reparations.
People are concerned about crime and terrorism. Too many think that all the new laws only affect criminals and terrorists. Meanwhile, the innocent have less liberty and freedom and the bad guys carry on. How many terrorists have been caught by TSA? How many innocent people have been harassed by TSA?
So many big problems that people should agree are problems. Funny that the right is worried about ISIS while the left believes they aren't a problem.
The right believes small businesses going bankrupt is a problem and the left thinks government programs are better than the private sector.
The differences are most often due to the remedies for problems. Poor? Well, some education and a job would do the trick, along with some aid during the process. It would seem a good compromise. Help people, but slowly get them off the doles. I don't understand why the continued debate on that one.
Speaking of debate, the global warming science should be debated until we get rid of all the skewed science. The proposed solutions should be heavily debated.
I hear that people who work should be able to make a living. I worked as a waitress as a teen. No way in hell would that salary be enough to pay rent, utilities, food and other expenses. Wasn't meant to since it was a starter job. My real job paid the bills just fine, but that was after experience, education and proving myself. No way would I have started a family before I was able to provide. Even though people can lose their jobs, welfare is there till they are back on their feet. It's easier to get back on your feet if you were independent before falling. Your first priority is planning for your future and making sure you have education and experience. Care about yourself enough to make the most of school. Gain experience through summer jobs. Make money and save money. If you quit school to have your baby and go on welfare, you may never get on your feet.
Again, it's how to handle the problems that separate the right and left. And it's understanding how government programs, like welfare, affect people, and even do harm in the long run.
If a politician needs poor people or 'victims' to ensure a victory, rest assured they will make sure there are plenty of victims to vote for them.
So because I make the claim that systemic and institutional racism exist I am fabricating a problem out of white guilt in order to divide people?
Do you even allow for the possibility that systemic and institutional racism do exist? Or does that idea offend your own agenda?
Can I claim that people are responsible for themselves while also recognizing that where you start in life impacts the ease or difficulty of the road you must travel to be successful?
Can I agree that as a nation we have an obligation to secure our borders while at the same time claiming that demonizing people trying to escape sex and drug trafficking aren't my enemy? Or does compassion make me guilty of dividing people?
Can I agree that we don't want perverted men using a women's bathroom while at the same time claiming that transgender people due face an unnecessary degree of shame and ridicule in some communities? Or does that make me a libtard?
Can I agree that government shouldn't impede economic progress while at the same time claim that government should prevent greed from becoming self destructive? Or does that make me a communist?
Can I agree that bigger government isn't necessarily a good thing but also claim there have been many times government action has been a net positive for our country?
Can I agree that we must face the threats of religious terrorism whole heartedly and with force while also claiming that war has become a business model for private defense profiteering? Or does that make me a muslim apologist?
Can I agree that armed criminals shouldn't shoot cops while at the same time claiming that cops shouldn't murder unarmed criminals? Or do only cops lives matter?
If you say this, you must also mean that. If you defend a person's right to feel this way, you must agree with what they're saying. Both sides do that, and when they do, the conversation goes right into the crapper. And once communication goes, so do the answers.
I don't know how this gets fixed. The obvious answer would be that enough respected "leaders" on both ends take a strong stand against the behavior, but to date, those "leaders" simply have not appeared.
The crazies are in charge right now. They can only see and argue "their side".
.
Did you really accuse me of being simple minded? I really don't think any responses or arguments I have made here have been simple minded.
And I also don't see how anything I have said is hurting our discourse. But please do elaborate on the specific problems you think I am ignoring or being simple minded about
Just pointing out that both ends of the spectrum do what you describe.
Many of their behaviors are very similar, ironically.
.
I've heard that from a lot of right wingers. What reason do you think liberals might have to do something like that? Do you think we want to lower our own standard of living, and why would we want to do that?Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other ?
The answer is simple,: the liberals in this country are trying to turn the USA into a piss ass degenerate Venezuela where any perversion goes.
Because in the 80s and 90s all we heard from the left was how unfair it was that the US only represented 18% of the world's population but
A) Controlled 66% of the world's wealth?
B) Used 40% of the world's energy?
etc..
That was the left crying out for WORLD redistribution and "social justice". Now that that's accomplished and Asia has developed and Africans want some modern age convienience and world nation "income gaps" have been reduced --- they want to do the same INSIDE America..
The left were CHAMPIONS of humbling American success in regards to the developing world. They WON that game. Now --- they whine about it. But their job is not done until outcomes are equalized and life and is made risk free for everyone.. So they LOVE low growth numbers. Because HIGH growth is "unsustainable" and bad for the planet.
Well I can't speak for the liberals that you claim to speak for but I will say it is my understanding that the liberal friends I have and know want equal opportunity no equal outcomes.
And again, I promise that 75% of liberals have more in common with 75% of conservatives than the other 25% which is mostly made of greedy plutocrats and bums who just want to live off defrauding us
No, I was agreeing with you.What you're describing is the kind of simplistic, shallow, binary thinking that has so infected our political "discourse", and it's now essentially standard operating procedure on both ends of the spectrum, a reflexive behavior. Everything you listed could be turned around into the other direction and it would also be accurate.So because I make the claim that systemic and institutional racism exist I am fabricating a problem out of white guilt in order to divide people?
Do you even allow for the possibility that systemic and institutional racism do exist? Or does that idea offend your own agenda?
Can I claim that people are responsible for themselves while also recognizing that where you start in life impacts the ease or difficulty of the road you must travel to be successful?
Can I agree that as a nation we have an obligation to secure our borders while at the same time claiming that demonizing people trying to escape sex and drug trafficking aren't my enemy? Or does compassion make me guilty of dividing people?
Can I agree that we don't want perverted men using a women's bathroom while at the same time claiming that transgender people due face an unnecessary degree of shame and ridicule in some communities? Or does that make me a libtard?
Can I agree that government shouldn't impede economic progress while at the same time claim that government should prevent greed from becoming self destructive? Or does that make me a communist?
Can I agree that bigger government isn't necessarily a good thing but also claim there have been many times government action has been a net positive for our country?
Can I agree that we must face the threats of religious terrorism whole heartedly and with force while also claiming that war has become a business model for private defense profiteering? Or does that make me a muslim apologist?
Can I agree that armed criminals shouldn't shoot cops while at the same time claiming that cops shouldn't murder unarmed criminals? Or do only cops lives matter?
If you say this, you must also mean that. If you defend a person's right to feel this way, you must agree with what they're saying. Both sides do that, and when they do, the conversation goes right into the crapper. And once communication goes, so do the answers.
I don't know how this gets fixed. The obvious answer would be that enough respected "leaders" on both ends take a strong stand against the behavior, but to date, those "leaders" simply have not appeared.
The crazies are in charge right now. They can only see and argue "their side".
.
Did you really accuse me of being simple minded? I really don't think any responses or arguments I have made here have been simple minded.
And I also don't see how anything I have said is hurting our discourse. But please do elaborate on the specific problems you think I am ignoring or being simple minded about
Just pointing out that both ends of the spectrum do what you describe.
Many of their behaviors are very similar, ironically.
.
I've heard that from a lot of right wingers. What reason do you think liberals might have to do something like that? Do you think we want to lower our own standard of living, and why would we want to do that?Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other ?
The answer is simple,: the liberals in this country are trying to turn the USA into a piss ass degenerate Venezuela where any perversion goes.
Because in the 80s and 90s all we heard from the left was how unfair it was that the US only represented 18% of the world's population but
A) Controlled 66% of the world's wealth?
B) Used 40% of the world's energy?
etc..
That was the left crying out for WORLD redistribution and "social justice". Now that that's accomplished and Asia has developed and Africans want some modern age convienience and world nation "income gaps" have been reduced --- they want to do the same INSIDE America..
The left were CHAMPIONS of humbling American success in regards to the developing world. They WON that game. Now --- they whine about it. But their job is not done until outcomes are equalized and life and is made risk free for everyone.. So they LOVE low growth numbers. Because HIGH growth is "unsustainable" and bad for the planet.
Well I can't speak for the liberals that you claim to speak for but I will say it is my understanding that the liberal friends I have and know want equal opportunity no equal outcomes.
And again, I promise that 75% of liberals have more in common with 75% of conservatives than the other 25% which is mostly made of greedy plutocrats and bums who just want to live off defrauding us
So you're saying that it was just my imagination that the left was ALL OUT FOR reducing those income, wealth and energy gaps between the US and the World back in 80/90s? You need some quotes or something? Or you just gonna gloss that over because it doesn't fit your narrative?
No, I was agreeing with you.What you're describing is the kind of simplistic, shallow, binary thinking that has so infected our political "discourse", and it's now essentially standard operating procedure on both ends of the spectrum, a reflexive behavior. Everything you listed could be turned around into the other direction and it would also be accurate.
If you say this, you must also mean that. If you defend a person's right to feel this way, you must agree with what they're saying. Both sides do that, and when they do, the conversation goes right into the crapper. And once communication goes, so do the answers.
I don't know how this gets fixed. The obvious answer would be that enough respected "leaders" on both ends take a strong stand against the behavior, but to date, those "leaders" simply have not appeared.
The crazies are in charge right now. They can only see and argue "their side".
.
Did you really accuse me of being simple minded? I really don't think any responses or arguments I have made here have been simple minded.
And I also don't see how anything I have said is hurting our discourse. But please do elaborate on the specific problems you think I am ignoring or being simple minded about
Just pointing out that both ends of the spectrum do what you describe.
Many of their behaviors are very similar, ironically.
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I've heard that from a lot of right wingers. What reason do you think liberals might have to do something like that? Do you think we want to lower our own standard of living, and why would we want to do that?Us versus them. Why are americans turning on each other ?
The answer is simple,: the liberals in this country are trying to turn the USA into a piss ass degenerate Venezuela where any perversion goes.
Because in the 80s and 90s all we heard from the left was how unfair it was that the US only represented 18% of the world's population but
A) Controlled 66% of the world's wealth?
B) Used 40% of the world's energy?
etc..
That was the left crying out for WORLD redistribution and "social justice". Now that that's accomplished and Asia has developed and Africans want some modern age convienience and world nation "income gaps" have been reduced --- they want to do the same INSIDE America..
The left were CHAMPIONS of humbling American success in regards to the developing world. They WON that game. Now --- they whine about it. But their job is not done until outcomes are equalized and life and is made risk free for everyone.. So they LOVE low growth numbers. Because HIGH growth is "unsustainable" and bad for the planet.
Well I can't speak for the liberals that you claim to speak for but I will say it is my understanding that the liberal friends I have and know want equal opportunity no equal outcomes.
And again, I promise that 75% of liberals have more in common with 75% of conservatives than the other 25% which is mostly made of greedy plutocrats and bums who just want to live off defrauding us
So you're saying that it was just my imagination that the left was ALL OUT FOR reducing those income, wealth and energy gaps between the US and the World back in 80/90s? You need some quotes or something? Or you just gonna gloss that over because it doesn't fit your narrative?
I never saw efforts to help other countries to become more self sustaining so the world would be a more stable place as a bad thing, and the fact that we produced massively more pollution, and used more energy than a large part of the rest of the world combined was certainly worth looking at, but no. I never saw it as an effort to lower our standard of living, as you imply. Is that why you are so willing to accept the constant lies from the right? Because you didn't like what some people said about ecology in the 80's and 90's?
Go ask Nader or Chomsky or Alinsky if the plan is working.. 
Why would a grown man pee pee on the floor of a local business?The left has effectively separated us into classes: black, white, brown, rich, poor, middle class, left, right, etc., and pitted us against each other.
I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us
You must understand. The man you are talking to claims to have pissed all over a Starbucks restroom because he doesn't like transgendered people. The left made him do it.
Not in the least bit true. But you have to lie don't you? Lies are all you have.
Yeah...I know you didn't actually do it. You just claimed you did. It's because you are fine with transgendered people. Right?
No, you stupid liar, I said I did it and I did. You lied about the reasons I did it. You are nothing but a Lying left wing nutjob. Nothing you say is ever the truth. That fact has been proven over and over.
Lies like this are all you ever have.
Why would a grown man pee pee on the floor of a local business?I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us
You must understand. The man you are talking to claims to have pissed all over a Starbucks restroom because he doesn't like transgendered people. The left made him do it.
Not in the least bit true. But you have to lie don't you? Lies are all you have.
Yeah...I know you didn't actually do it. You just claimed you did. It's because you are fine with transgendered people. Right?
No, you stupid liar, I said I did it and I did. You lied about the reasons I did it. You are nothing but a Lying left wing nutjob. Nothing you say is ever the truth. That fact has been proven over and over.
Lies like this are all you ever have.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Basically.Republicans have turned on America since Reagan.
So true.Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.
What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.
I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.
In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.
What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.
Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.
This is largely because Government is outside it's bounds. Partisans meddle in issues they desire to meddle in -- not as a set of priorities. The country has largely been on auto-pilot since 2000. Congress doesn't write laws anymore. They write huge FORMS with blanks to be filled in by unaccountable minions of bureaucrats. These excersizes (like Dodd-Frank and ObamaCare ) are subject to "on the fly" decrees by the exec branch or some agency. And they go ON and ON and ON and never call it done. Creating uncertainty for biz, and for you.
The media is the other problem. Same damn talking heads WEEK after WEEK.. Because journalist today are LAZY and stupid and their product "scripted".. Never help RESOLVE any issues by going to the hard stuff. Finding the RIGHT experts and doing some math. They think you're too stupid if any primary is an "open primary" or "winner take all" or where the missing percentages in their election night coverage went. I watch INCREDUKLOUSLY for some time the night of the W.VA. because the vote totals were missing about 15%.. You're too stupid to care why OR the folks pounding this horse can't add.
We are divided because many of us can't tolerate a "don't care" attitude about Benghazi or gross mishandling of classified documents by a Prez wannabee. Those folks see a general decline in the ETHICAL standards of government. A bathroom law that protects a class of people WITHOUT a method of identifying WHO belongs to that class is great example of lazy work ethic from government, And we are divided because other folks are feeding that division with class, race, income, sex, and other DIVISIVE shit they can conjure up.
The whole Federal process is severely broken, Congress is irrelevant, the media is useless and the 2 parties are stoking a meaningless McCoy - Hatfield feud.. Other than that ---------
........................................... everything's peachy....
Now we have something we disagree on and I like that. I don't think the system is broken. Representative democracy is a good system. The problem is the employees. Government is only as lazy and ineffective as the people we elect to do the job of governing. Government can be an engine of good, a place where ideas come together and are debated and discussed until the best version of the best idea becomes law
Uh.. No sir. .The PROCESS is broken. I illustrated that with the important fact that Congress no longer RESEARCHES before they write laws. They write BLANK checks to the agencies who supply their "research" with phoney or suspicious government numbers and estimates.
Another MAJOR problem is that only 4 party Elites RUN the Congress. No office, no pencils, no assignments if you cross these VERY partisan bosses. Nothing comes out of committee or goes to a vote without their direction.
Congress is also completely POWERLESS to excercise it's oversight duties on OPERATING programs or scandals. They are completely NEUTERED by the minions of the damned. They cannot get vital answers or responsibility from the Bureaucratic mammoth. It's gone feral..
Can I go on? Of course. But I want to see how naive you are about recognizing how broken this whole Republic is right now.. And you have a long road to hoe if you don't see WHERE all this class, sex, racial division is coming from.....
You are mistaken. men and women in congress no longer research before writing laws. Congress isn't some robot, its a collection of people. and the majority of people we have elected CHOOSE not to work for the vast majoprity of its constituents. again this problem could be solved by electing better human beings to represent us
The American voting public is at the core of what is wrong with government. Many of us don't know anything about the issues that DO affect our lives. We are mesmerized by the media's portrayal of Washington DC. The media is the gatekeeper of the information we see and hear. The media makes more money when the public is at it's neighbors throats. What gets our attention is the trivial shiny stuff that can be covered in less than 60 seconds not counting the commercial interruptions.
It is no co-incidence that the low information we get to see has gotten exponentially worse since Bill Clinton signed the Telecommunications Act in 1996. This is why I have a burning hatred for Billy. He sabotaged free press. That and the suit Fox won guaranteeing their ability to lie without consequence has destroyed integrity in the media.
The representatives we vote for are mistaken by lazy Americans for leaders. The only thing they truly lead is the way to the money trough. There is little integrity in Congress because we demand little integrity from the candidates we vet and vote into office.
Why would a grown man pee pee on the floor of a local business?I don't think thats true at all, i think for the vast majority of americans the politics of race is more media frenzy than actual impact on day to day lives of us
You must understand. The man you are talking to claims to have pissed all over a Starbucks restroom because he doesn't like transgendered people. The left made him do it.
Not in the least bit true. But you have to lie don't you? Lies are all you have.
Yeah...I know you didn't actually do it. You just claimed you did. It's because you are fine with transgendered people. Right?
No, you stupid liar, I said I did it and I did. You lied about the reasons I did it. You are nothing but a Lying left wing nutjob. Nothing you say is ever the truth. That fact has been proven over and over.
Lies like this are all you ever have.
Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk
Shots fired! Party's done. Game over.Read any forum post in politics and its liberals bashing conservatives or vice versa. Conservatives and liberals always in lock step behind their candidate. Ask the majority of Trump supporters or Hillary supporters why they are voting for the candidate and the #1 answer is because their candidate isn't the other candidate. The majority of conversations here don't center around policy or any tangible issue. It's all slander and character attacks.
What we fail to realize is that 75% (maybe more) of the population has so much in common but yet we get divided over who uses what bathroom.
I read an article the other day about "Obama's war or police." So I looked at some statistics and come to find out the past few years the number of police killed in the line of duty has been declining. I also learned that more children under the age of 17 are killed every year by gunshot wounds than police.
In North Carolina the state legislature decided to pass a bathroom law (something magical must have happened this year that required this law to come into existence) then Obama overruled the law and the whole country went crazy.
What the fuck are we fighting about? Somehow MSNBC cares about Melania Trump and her modeling career. Somehow the size of a man's hands matters for being president. What the fuck are we fighting about.
Can we talk about debt and deficits, can we talk about jobs and growth. Can we talk about affordable healthcare and corporations writing our laws? Can we talk about spending cuts and raising revenue? Can we talk about public education and corporate fraud? These are debates we need to have, not more Benghazi hearings or hand measuring contests.
I think politicians deliberately focus on social issues to keep attention away from national security, the deficit, the economy and open borders.
The left has been getting people riled by inciting class wars (tax the evil wealthy and give it back to the rightful owners who never earned it) and race wars by vilifying cops and claiming it's racist to want secure borders. Those issues are the most divisive and it's working.
Welfare people don't really worry about the economy and maybe don't understand it. They understand that some have more than them and they've been taught to believe that isn't fair.
Blacks are angrier than ever at whites, especially cops. In the absence of racism, the race baiters found a new way to declare people guilty- white privilege. You're white, you're privileged. Case closed. Now make reparations.
People are concerned about crime and terrorism. Too many think that all the new laws only affect criminals and terrorists. Meanwhile, the innocent have less liberty and freedom and the bad guys carry on. How many terrorists have been caught by TSA? How many innocent people have been harassed by TSA?
So many big problems that people should agree are problems. Funny that the right is worried about ISIS while the left believes they aren't a problem.
The right believes small businesses going bankrupt is a problem and the left thinks government programs are better than the private sector.
The differences are most often due to the remedies for problems. Poor? Well, some education and a job would do the trick, along with some aid during the process. It would seem a good compromise. Help people, but slowly get them off the doles. I don't understand why the continued debate on that one.
Speaking of debate, the global warming science should be debated until we get rid of all the skewed science. The proposed solutions should be heavily debated.
I hear that people who work should be able to make a living. I worked as a waitress as a teen. No way in hell would that salary be enough to pay rent, utilities, food and other expenses. Wasn't meant to since it was a starter job. My real job paid the bills just fine, but that was after experience, education and proving myself. No way would I have started a family before I was able to provide. Even though people can lose their jobs, welfare is there till they are back on their feet. It's easier to get back on your feet if you were independent before falling. Your first priority is planning for your future and making sure you have education and experience. Care about yourself enough to make the most of school. Gain experience through summer jobs. Make money and save money. If you quit school to have your baby and go on welfare, you may never get on your feet.
Again, it's how to handle the problems that separate the right and left. And it's understanding how government programs, like welfare, affect people, and even do harm in the long run.
If a politician needs poor people or 'victims' to ensure a victory, rest assured they will make sure there are plenty of victims to vote for them.
So because I make the claim that systemic and institutional racism exist I am fabricating a problem out of white guilt in order to divide people?
Do you even allow for the possibility that systemic and institutional racism do exist? Or does that idea offend your own agenda?
Can I claim that people are responsible for themselves while also recognizing that where you start in life impacts the ease or difficulty of the road you must travel to be successful?
Can I agree that as a nation we have an obligation to secure our borders while at the same time claiming that demonizing people trying to escape sex and drug trafficking aren't my enemy? Or does compassion make me guilty of dividing people?
Can I agree that we don't want perverted men using a women's bathroom while at the same time claiming that transgender people due face an unnecessary degree of shame and ridicule in some communities? Or does that make me a libtard?
Can I agree that government shouldn't impede economic progress while at the same time claim that government should prevent greed from becoming self destructive? Or does that make me a communist?
Can I agree that bigger government isn't necessarily a good thing but also claim there have been many times government action has been a net positive for our country?
Can I agree that we must face the threats of religious terrorism whole heartedly and with force while also claiming that war has become a business model for private defense profiteering? Or does that make me a muslim apologist?
Can I agree that armed criminals shouldn't shoot cops while at the same time claiming that cops shouldn't murder unarmed criminals? Or do only cops lives matter?
