Use less water, get charged more

[auditor0007]

You would have a point if the public utilities weren't making money off of it themselves, with the added advantage that no one can switch to another company because they have a government enforced monopoly.

By the way, I assume you don't live in Toledo. Or perhaps you just like shitty water.

explain to me how competition in water supply would work logistically. how many sewer systems will a city support and have room for?

where did all this city water utility profit go?

The fact that I don't have an answer to every question does not prove anything other than my inability to answer every question. Why don't you explain to me why we should trust a system that obviously doesn't work? I know you think government is the answer to everything, so this should be pretty good.

Quite honestly, I would not trust a private corporation with the public water supply, even with outside testing being done. As much as you may not trust the government, it is less likely to allow its citizens to use contaminated water. We just had a situation in Toledo this past week where the water was contaminated. Warnings were put out immediately so people would not drink the water. Private companies that are more concerned with profits is not a good thing for public safety when it comes to our water.

 

[auditor0007]

This same dynamic is seen playing out with electric cars. As more electrics are on the road, they don't consume gasoline, which means that these cars aren't paying gas taxes to pay for upkeep of roads. Government subsidizes alternative modes of transit plus pubic transit and then complains about gas tax shortfalls.

Simple fix for that. Replace the gasoline tax with a tire tax. That would also fix the discrepancy in the diesel tax which would lead to many more people buying diesel engined cars. People aren't going to buy them when diesel costs up to $1.00 more per gallon because of the higher taxes meant for big trucks and semis.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Gotta love government monopolies, who else could get away with this crap?

Federally mandated low-flow toilets, shower heads and faucets are taking a financial toll on the nation’s water utilities, leaving customers to make up the shortfall with higher water rates and new fees that have left many paying more for less.
Utility officials say they understand that charging more for water because demand has dropped might seem to violate a basic premise of Economics 101. But utilities that generally charge by the number of gallons used are beginning to feel the financial pinch of 20 years of environmentally friendly fixtures and appliances, as older bathrooms and kitchens have been remodeled, utility experts say.
Federal laws aimed at conserving water limit toilets that once needed up to seven gallons per flush to 1.6 gallons. Shower heads that spewed up to eight gallons per minute are being replaced with sprays of about 2.5 gallons.
Adding to the problem, Washington-area utilities say, is the fact that consumption is falling as costs are mounting to upgrade sewer systems and repair and replace aging water pipes, some more than a century old, that are bursting after decades of decay and neglect. Meanwhile, utilities’ costs — electricity, chemicals and labor — have continued to rise.

Water utilities charge more to offset low-flow toilets, faucets and shower heads - The Washington Post

Any bets on how long it takes for some idiot to come in and defend public utilities because they keep people safe?

It has nothing to do with keeping people safe. It costs a certain amount of money to get the water to the customer, regardless of the actual amount used. Water treatment plants and holding tanks have to be paid for along with many other costs involved in getting water to the end users. Old rates were based on rates of consumption consistent with those times. Saving water now is not a bad thing, in fact it is a necessary thing in many communities. That does not change the fact that the fixed costs continue to go up. This happened in Colorado while I was living there. In fact, it happened during some of the drought years when they had water restrictions in place.

It is a government mandated monopoly, which should be illegal under federal law. The fact that all governments do it does not justify anything.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You would have a point if the public utilities weren't making money off of it themselves, with the added advantage that no one can switch to another company because they have a government enforced monopoly.

By the way, I assume you don't live in Toledo. Or perhaps you just like shitty water.

Fairfax Water - one of the utilities listed in your article.

Chartered in 1957 by the Virginia State Corporation Commission as a public, non-profit water utility,

https://www.fcwa.org/about_us/index.htm

According to them they aren't making money.

Most water commissions have oversight and are not permitted to be profitable.

Who told you that? If they aren't permitted to be profitable why the fuck do most public utilities end up with extra money at the end of the year?

 

[auditor0007]

The fact that I don't have an answer to every question does not prove anything other than my inability to answer every question. Why don't you explain to me why we should trust a system that obviously doesn't work. I know you think government is the answer to everything, so this should be pretty good.

the system does work. we have clean, potable water throughout the united states. there are temporary exceptions and hiccups - toledo being an example. of course, i'm not sure how a private company would have dealt with toxins from an algae bloom either, but i can guess that it would have tried to cover it up and inform as few as possible to protect the bottom line.

and you have to realize that it's unrealistic to expect multiple sewer lines or water supplies for homes - hell, most places around the united states can only get one cable provider and that's incredibly simple when compared to the infrastructure needed for water and sewer.

LA wasted 50 million gallons of water because the system works.

Toledo had to call in the National Guard to supply water because the system works.

I think we have different definitions of work, which might be the entire problem you have relating to the real world.

By the way, the reason most places can only get one cable provider is that the government enforces a monopoly. You really need to come up with better arguments to defend government monopolies than they exist.

The system did work in Toledo. The water was contaminated due to very unusual circumstances. The system worked because people were informed not to drink the water. What are the odds that a private company would have informed everyone to not drink the water?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

explain to me how competition in water supply would work logistically. how many sewer systems will a city support and have room for?

where did all this city water utility profit go?

The fact that I don't have an answer to every question does not prove anything other than my inability to answer every question. Why don't you explain to me why we should trust a system that obviously doesn't work? I know you think government is the answer to everything, so this should be pretty good.

Quite honestly, I would not trust a private corporation with the public water supply, even with outside testing being done. As much as you may not trust the government, it is less likely to allow its citizens to use contaminated water. We just had a situation in Toledo this past week where the water was contaminated. Warnings were put out immediately so people would not drink the water. Private companies that are more concerned with profits is not a good thing for public safety when it comes to our water.

Quite frankly, that is a stupid position, especially if you buy bottled water.

By the way, if the government is so efficient why did they wait until toxins were at dangerous levels before issuing warnings? Do you honestly believe that the levels rose overnight?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

the system does work. we have clean, potable water throughout the united states. there are temporary exceptions and hiccups - toledo being an example. of course, i'm not sure how a private company would have dealt with toxins from an algae bloom either, but i can guess that it would have tried to cover it up and inform as few as possible to protect the bottom line.

and you have to realize that it's unrealistic to expect multiple sewer lines or water supplies for homes - hell, most places around the united states can only get one cable provider and that's incredibly simple when compared to the infrastructure needed for water and sewer.

LA wasted 50 million gallons of water because the system works.

Toledo had to call in the National Guard to supply water because the system works.

I think we have different definitions of work, which might be the entire problem you have relating to the real world.

By the way, the reason most places can only get one cable provider is that the government enforces a monopoly. You really need to come up with better arguments to defend government monopolies than they exist.

The system did work in Toledo. The water was contaminated due to very unusual circumstances. The system worked because people were informed not to drink the water. What are the odds that a private company would have informed everyone to not drink the water?

If the system actually worked they wouldn't have had to cut off the water supply for hundreds of thousands of people, would they?

What are the odds that a private company would have poisoned hundreds of thousands of people? Less than zero.

 

[auditor0007]

The libs on here are showing their collective ass.
You people are advocating for higher rates...just because...
Because with you it is ideology or be damned.
Unbelievable....
Suppose it was YOUR rates that skyrocket..What say you then?

Here, you can have your private water company. Customers seem to love this one.

PFLUGERVILLE — When Robert White opened his water bill last month, his jaw dropped: $250 for a month's worth of water and sewer service. The 63-year-old construction contractor, who shares a three-bedroom home with his wife in the bucolic Springbrook Centre subdivision, said he likes to keep his lawn green and expects hefty water bills. "I just don't want to be hijacked," he said.
White's water service is provided by a private utility owned by California-based SouthWest Water Co. LLC. Just across the four-lane Pflugerville Parkway, where White's neighbors in the Springbrook Glen subdivision — a nearly identical grid of neatly arranged brick-faced homes — get their water from Pflugerville, rates are on average about 60 percent less.
And White's bill for water service may nearly double soon, if SouthWest Water gets the latest rate increase it has requested. "I have never felt so helpless," he said.
He's not alone. Across the state, a growing number of suburban Texans are getting their water from large, private corporations owned by investors seeking to profit off the sale of an essential resource. State figures show private companies are seeking more price increases every year, and many are substantial.

Growth of large private water companies brings higher water rates | www.statesman.com

Sorry, but where water is concerned, I would much rather have it owned and operated publicly rather than by a private company.

 

[auditor0007]

The fact that I don't have an answer to every question does not prove anything other than my inability to answer every question. Why don't you explain to me why we should trust a system that obviously doesn't work? I know you think government is the answer to everything, so this should be pretty good.

Quite honestly, I would not trust a private corporation with the public water supply, even with outside testing being done. As much as you may not trust the government, it is less likely to allow its citizens to use contaminated water. We just had a situation in Toledo this past week where the water was contaminated. Warnings were put out immediately so people would not drink the water. Private companies that are more concerned with profits is not a good thing for public safety when it comes to our water.

Quite frankly, that is a stupid position, especially if you buy bottled water.

By the way, if the government is so efficient why did they wait until toxins were at dangerous levels before issuing warnings? Do you honestly believe that the levels rose overnight?

Yes, actually they did rise overnight. They were aware that the conditions for this happening existed. Testing had been done twice per day for most of the summer. When Microsystin reaches high enough levels, it can overwhelm even the best water plant filtration systems, and that is what happened in Toledo. A smaller water plant in Oregon, OH which uses the same water from Lake Erie was not affected, but it takes in much less water than Toledo's water treatment plant.

BTW, I generally do not buy bottled water, but I do have a filter on my faucet. Those filters do not stop Microsystin though.

 

[auditor0007]

LA wasted 50 million gallons of water because the system works.

Toledo had to call in the National Guard to supply water because the system works.

I think we have different definitions of work, which might be the entire problem you have relating to the real world.

By the way, the reason most places can only get one cable provider is that the government enforces a monopoly. You really need to come up with better arguments to defend government monopolies than they exist.

The system did work in Toledo. The water was contaminated due to very unusual circumstances. The system worked because people were informed not to drink the water. What are the odds that a private company would have informed everyone to not drink the water?

If the system actually worked they wouldn't have had to cut off the water supply for hundreds of thousands of people, would they?

What are the odds that a private company would have poisoned hundreds of thousands of people? Less than zero.

Probably not intentionally, but they may well have tried to save money by testing less frequently. Microsystin can be deadly.

 

[Politico]

The libs on here are showing their collective ass.
You people are advocating for higher rates...just because...
Because with you it is ideology or be damned.
Unbelievable....
Suppose it was YOUR rates that skyrocket..What say you then?

I know mine did. Where I am they started charging for a minimum amount of water each month whether you use it or not. Then it's tiered. But we have never gotten close to the base amount.

 

[Harry Dresden]

They aren't privately held, if they were they would have upgraded their facilities over a period of time instead of turning to a captured customer base to pay for it when it is way too old.

Los Angeles has a broken water main every month it seems....

I loved the pictures from the one on Sunset last week.

yea that will cost the City plenty.....on the news today they said there was yet another one last night....

 

[thereisnospoon]

The libs on here are showing their collective ass.
You people are advocating for higher rates...just because...
Because with you it is ideology or be damned.
Unbelievable....
Suppose it was YOUR rates that skyrocket..What say you then?

Here, you can have your private water company. Customers seem to love this one.

PFLUGERVILLE — When Robert White opened his water bill last month, his jaw dropped: $250 for a month's worth of water and sewer service. The 63-year-old construction contractor, who shares a three-bedroom home with his wife in the bucolic Springbrook Centre subdivision, said he likes to keep his lawn green and expects hefty water bills. "I just don't want to be hijacked," he said.
White's water service is provided by a private utility owned by California-based SouthWest Water Co. LLC. Just across the four-lane Pflugerville Parkway, where White's neighbors in the Springbrook Glen subdivision — a nearly identical grid of neatly arranged brick-faced homes — get their water from Pflugerville, rates are on average about 60 percent less.
And White's bill for water service may nearly double soon, if SouthWest Water gets the latest rate increase it has requested. "I have never felt so helpless," he said.
He's not alone. Across the state, a growing number of suburban Texans are getting their water from large, private corporations owned by investors seeking to profit off the sale of an essential resource. State figures show private companies are seeking more price increases every year, and many are substantial.

Growth of large private water companies brings higher water rates | www.statesman.com

Sorry, but where water is concerned, I would much rather have it owned and operated publicly rather than by a private company.

Gee...Well that's fine. You also want government to be your mommy and daddy. So you're posting to air.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The libs on here are showing their collective ass.
You people are advocating for higher rates...just because...
Because with you it is ideology or be damned.
Unbelievable....
Suppose it was YOUR rates that skyrocket..What say you then?

I know mine did. Where I am they started charging for a minimum amount of water each month whether you use it or not. Then it's tiered. But we have never gotten close to the base amount.

Many public utilities operate this way.
Your post comes as no surprise.

 

[jasonnfree]

By all means let's get rid of government utilities so that eventually one or two companies control them all. This will really drive the prices down.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The libs on here are showing their collective ass.
You people are advocating for higher rates...just because...
Because with you it is ideology or be damned.
Unbelievable....
Suppose it was YOUR rates that skyrocket..What say you then?

Here, you can have your private water company. Customers seem to love this one.

PFLUGERVILLE — When Robert White opened his water bill last month, his jaw dropped: $250 for a month's worth of water and sewer service. The 63-year-old construction contractor, who shares a three-bedroom home with his wife in the bucolic Springbrook Centre subdivision, said he likes to keep his lawn green and expects hefty water bills. "I just don't want to be hijacked," he said.
White's water service is provided by a private utility owned by California-based SouthWest Water Co. LLC. Just across the four-lane Pflugerville Parkway, where White's neighbors in the Springbrook Glen subdivision — a nearly identical grid of neatly arranged brick-faced homes — get their water from Pflugerville, rates are on average about 60 percent less.
And White's bill for water service may nearly double soon, if SouthWest Water gets the latest rate increase it has requested. "I have never felt so helpless," he said.
He's not alone. Across the state, a growing number of suburban Texans are getting their water from large, private corporations owned by investors seeking to profit off the sale of an essential resource. State figures show private companies are seeking more price increases every year, and many are substantial.

Growth of large private water companies brings higher water rates | www.statesman.com

Sorry, but where water is concerned, I would much rather have it owned and operated publicly rather than by a private company.

That "private" water utility is still a government mandated monopoly, but feel free to pretend you actually made a point.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Quite honestly, I would not trust a private corporation with the public water supply, even with outside testing being done. As much as you may not trust the government, it is less likely to allow its citizens to use contaminated water. We just had a situation in Toledo this past week where the water was contaminated. Warnings were put out immediately so people would not drink the water. Private companies that are more concerned with profits is not a good thing for public safety when it comes to our water.

Quite frankly, that is a stupid position, especially if you buy bottled water.

By the way, if the government is so efficient why did they wait until toxins were at dangerous levels before issuing warnings? Do you honestly believe that the levels rose overnight?

Yes, actually they did rise overnight. They were aware that the conditions for this happening existed. Testing had been done twice per day for most of the summer. When Microsystin reaches high enough levels, it can overwhelm even the best water plant filtration systems, and that is what happened in Toledo. A smaller water plant in Oregon, OH which uses the same water from Lake Erie was not affected, but it takes in much less water than Toledo's water treatment plant.

BTW, I generally do not buy bottled water, but I do have a filter on my faucet. Those filters do not stop Microsystin though.

They did not rise overnight, that would require the laws of nature to be repealed. The danger was there for a period of time, and the government didn't say a fucking word to anyone until they reached the levels that it is required for them to report.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The system did work in Toledo. The water was contaminated due to very unusual circumstances. The system worked because people were informed not to drink the water. What are the odds that a private company would have informed everyone to not drink the water?

If the system actually worked they wouldn't have had to cut off the water supply for hundreds of thousands of people, would they?

What are the odds that a private company would have poisoned hundreds of thousands of people? Less than zero.

Probably not intentionally, but they may well have tried to save money by testing less frequently. Microsystin can be deadly.

Or they might have tested more frequently.

The point is all you have is a hatred of private enterprise, a blind trust in the government, and lots of conjecture and wishful thinking.

 

[idb]

If the system actually worked they wouldn't have had to cut off the water supply for hundreds of thousands of people, would they?

What are the odds that a private company would have poisoned hundreds of thousands of people? Less than zero.

Probably not intentionally, but they may well have tried to save money by testing less frequently. Microsystin can be deadly.

Or they might have tested more frequently.

The point is all you have is a hatred of private enterprise, a blind trust in the government, and lots of conjecture and wishful thinking.

Standard QW M.O.
Attribute back or white positions to other posters then point out how stupid they are.
Boring and predictable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Probably not intentionally, but they may well have tried to save money by testing less frequently. Microsystin can be deadly.

Or they might have tested more frequently.

The point is all you have is a hatred of private enterprise, a blind trust in the government, and lots of conjecture and wishful thinking.

Standard QW M.O.
Attribute back or white positions to other posters then point out how stupid they are.
Boring and predictable.

Have you read the fucking thread, genius? He keeps insisting that private businesses wont do things, and provides no evidence. He then insists that government is better at this, and again provides no evidence. In other words, I pegged his position exactly.