USMB Abortion poll

[Conservative65]

First and Second trimesters: abortion should be allowed without question of motive.

Third Trimester: only in cases of rape, incest, where the mother's life is at stake, or birth/genetic defect.

Why third trimester in cases of rape or incest?

It's a not-completely-arbitrary-but-easily-acceptable-for-most-people boundary between an undeveloped fetus without any kind of consciousness and what might be a feeling infant inside the womb.

So if a woman is raped but doesn't decide that she doesn't want to bring the resulting pregnancy to term until the third trimester, she can still terminate the pregnancy. Same with pregnancies of incestuous union.

So there's no medical reason? You just want longer to decide? If that's the case then I need to go with first trimester or none.

Abortion isn't just a medical issue. It should be, but conservatives have made it a political one.

A woman made pregnant from rape may not want to abort at first but then change her mind, or change her mind numerous times back and forth, but it doesn't matter: she should have the choice whether to bring the pregnancy to term or to abort without government interference.

Sounds like to me she needs to make up her mind.

If she chooses to bring a pregnancy, regardless of how it occurred, to term, why is it when she can't afford that choice, those of us told to butt out are not held responsible for the financial aspects?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

 

[Conservative65]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

That's the point I was making. I don't care if she chooses to have a dozen kids. If she says that the choice she made to have all 12 of them is her choice, the responsibility of supporting all 12 of them belongs to her, alone.

 

[Redfish]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

when does the unborn human being get to make a choice? At exactly what moment does it change from a meaningless fetus to a human being? Explain exactly how and when that happens.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

when does the unborn human being get to make a choice? At exactly what moment does it change from a meaningless fetus to a human being? Explain exactly how and when that happens.

Not at conception. You can't disprove that.

 

[Redfish]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

when does the unborn human being get to make a choice? At exactly what moment does it change from a meaningless fetus to a human being? Explain exactly how and when that happens.

Not at conception. You can't disprove that.

That happens to be what I, and billions of other people, believe, and you cannot prove us wrong.

Look dude, we just disagree on this, in a free society people can disagree. Those disagreements are settled by voting, and the majority view prevails. That's what democracy is all about.

So, lets put it to a vote of all 330,000,000 American citizens. I am willing to accept the will of the people, are you?

 

[JakeStarkey]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

when does the unborn human being get to make a choice? At exactly what moment does it change from a meaningless fetus to a human being? Explain exactly how and when that happens.

Not at conception. You can't disprove that.

That happens to be what I, and billions of other people, believe, and you cannot prove us wrong.

Look dude, we just disagree on this, in a free society people can disagree. Those disagreements are settled by voting, and the majority view prevails. That's what democracy is all about.

So, lets put it to a vote of all 330,000,000 American citizens. I am willing to accept the will of the people, are you?

One, you can't prove "billions" believe as you: probably quite the opposite.

Two, four out of five Americans believe in some form of regulated abortion.

 

[Redfish]

You have a right to argue about supporting the children, not about her choice.

when does the unborn human being get to make a choice? At exactly what moment does it change from a meaningless fetus to a human being? Explain exactly how and when that happens.

Not at conception. You can't disprove that.

That happens to be what I, and billions of other people, believe, and you cannot prove us wrong.

Look dude, we just disagree on this, in a free society people can disagree. Those disagreements are settled by voting, and the majority view prevails. That's what democracy is all about.

So, lets put it to a vote of all 330,000,000 American citizens. I am willing to accept the will of the people, are you?

One, you can't prove "billions" believe as you: probably quite the opposite.

Two, four out of five Americans believe in some form of regulated abortion.

billions------------all muslims, most Christians, most Jews, most Hindus, all buddists, many atheists.

"some form" does not mean abortion on request for any reason.

But you continue to ignore my legitimate question: Explain that magical moment in the womb when the fetus becomes a human being. When does it cease being a glob of cells that can be destroyed at will and become a human being with the right to life? you libs seem to think that occurs somewhere between 6 and 9 months. Explain that process for us.

you also ignore my question about whether you are willing to accept the will of the people as expressed by a referendum. Are you or not?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Your request is what you believe and not obligatory for me to respond to.

Your statement of "billions" remains false because you can't prove it.

Who said anything about favoring abortion on demand: only you.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Redfish has not voted. Why?

 

[Redfish]

Redfish has not voted. Why?

I voted

 

[JakeStarkey]

My mistake. Our differenceis that

You believe "during the first tri-mester in cases of rape or family abuse or serious genetic defect in the f" whereas I give the mother the right during the entire pregnancy to decide, particularly because of serious genetic defect or serious danger to health or life of the mother.

 

[Redfish]

My mistake. Our differenceis that

You believe "during the first tri-mester in cases of rape or family abuse or serious genetic defect in the f" whereas I give the mother the right during the entire pregnancy to decide, particularly because of serious genetic defect or serious danger to health or life of the mother.

ok, thanks for finally being honest. But you still failed to answer two basic questions.

1. what magical event occurs during the second trimester that suddenly changes the mass of cells to a human being?

2. If there was a national referendum on abortion would you accept the will of the majority?

 

[deltex1]

Since abortion always impacts our elections, here is a new poll on the subject.

Abort Only if the last name is Obama, Pelosi, Reid or Schumer.

 

[Chuz Life]

Since abortion always impacts our elections, here is a new poll on the subject.

Abort Only if the last name is Obama, Pelosi, Reid or Schumer.

So temtping. . .

 

[JakeStarkey]

My mistake. Our differenceis that

You believe "during the first tri-mester in cases of rape or family abuse or serious genetic defect in the f" whereas I give the mother the right during the entire pregnancy to decide, particularly because of serious genetic defect or serious danger to health or life of the mother.

ok, thanks for finally being honest. But you still failed to answer two basic questions.

1. what magical event occurs during the second trimester that suddenly changes the mass of cells to a human being?

2. If there was a national referendum on abortion would you accept the will of the majority?

You cannot prove that "humanness" begins on the first day, so question #1 does not matter.

We are republic not a democracy, so, no, to question #2 any more than I would accept segregation if it were the will of the majority.

Do you accept that the great majority of Americans want stronger background checks?

 

[JakeStarkey]

If there is any question about finally being honesty between us, you are the one who comes out on the short end of the stick. Disagreement or an error is not dishonesty. Any disagreement with you is not dishonesty. You evidence a narcissistic personality disorder when you believe that.

You cannot prove that "humanness" begins on the first day, so question #1 does not matter.

We are republic not a democracy, so, no, to question #2 any more than I would accept segregation if it were the will of the majority.

Do you accept that the great majority of Americans want stronger background checks?

 

[Redfish]

If there is any question about finally being honesty between us, you are the one who comes out on the short end of the stick. Disagreement or an error is not dishonesty. Any disagreement with you is not dishonesty. You evidence a narcissistic personality disorder when you believe that.

You cannot prove that "humanness" begins on the first day, so question #1 does not matter.

We are republic not a democracy, so, no, to question #2 any more than I would accept segregation if it were the will of the majority.

Do you accept that the great majority of Americans want stronger background checks?

Nor can you prove that humanness does not begin at the moment of conception. That's why this is a debate, because the proof of each position is missing.

The rights of minorities were established by majority vote, so your argument on democracy vs republic is bullshit.

We already have strong background checks. Gangbangers ignore them when they sell stolen guns to each other.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Redfish admits that he cannot prove that humanness begins at conception.

That is the point, and that is why the great majority of Americans believe in some form of government approved and regulated forms of abortions.

And that background checks need to be strengthened. 90% of America wants that, but also of a sudden you won't adopt your own mode of approval, democratic vote. I am honest, you are a hypocrite.

 

[Redfish]

Redfish admits that he cannot prove that humanness begins at conception.

That is the point, and that is why the great majority of Americans believe in some form of government approved and regulated forms of abortions.

And that background checks need to be strengthened. 90% of America wants that, but also of a sudden you won't adopt your own mode of approval, democratic vote. I am honest, you are a hypocrite.

No, I can't PROVE that humanness begins at conception, neither can you prove that it happens at some mystical point during the pregnancy.

If you are correct that a majority of americans want some form of abortion on demand, then you should have no issue with putting it to a vote. So lets do it. Lets let all americans vote on whether abortion on demand should be legal in this country.

For the record, I have never said that I am opposed to all abortions. I just want people to understand that aborting a viable fetus is killing it.

We already have a good workable system of background checks. They only affect law abiding citizens who choose to buy guns. Background checks to not stop criminals from obtaining guns from other criminals. Restricting the rights of law abiding citizens does not deter crime. Until you grasp that reality, you will continue to embarrass yourself on this message board.