Va Primary: Gingrich, Perry fail to get on ballot.

[JimBowie1958]

GOP voters in VA who actually give a darn have no one to blame but the candidate...

Lol, yeah because we all know how these cronies only screw over those who really deserve it.

So, if thhis is just politics as usual, can you name another Presidential state primary in the past where five of seven serious candidates were kept off the ballot?

And by serious, I mean they got a lot of donations, advertising on their behalf, were invited to the debates, etc?

Just name one.

Christopher Dodd, Senior Senator from Connecticut 2008.


Chris Dodd presidential campaign, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rick Perry won't make ballot in Virginia - 2008 Presidential Candidates - Zimbio

>>>>

Dont see where anything close to five of seven were kept off the ballot.

Did I miss it?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I've been reading a lot of ca-rap lately about how the "rules were changed" for this primary.

I see some who like to take Erick Erikson at his word in his diatribes from RedState (the man is a lying idiot, but nevermind that...)

Well, well, well. Look at what we have here: From 2008 - straight from Erick Erickson himself - COMPLAINING ABOUT THE GOP checking the signatures on the petitions of presidential candidates:

"Romney, Fred, Rudy, McCain, Huckabee, and Paul all filed over 15,000 signatures each – well above the recommended minimums.

So what did the Virginia GOP do? Well, they did absolutely nothing to help any of the candidates other than put out clipboards at their state fair booth.

Then they decided to attempt some kind of unprecedented “verification” process. Historically, forms have never been checked by either party, often they never even open the boxes.
They gave no one notice of this new process. They sent all the campaigns an email notice the Friday afternoon after they’d all filed their signatures. You can see the memo below. As you can see its a ridiculous attempt to replicate Florida in 2000.


At the time, no one had any idea who the “verifiers” would be or who they supported. Likewise, everyone had questions on what did and did not constitute legitimate signatures. All the campaigns had to lawyer up against their own party.

The Executive Director of the Virginia GOP had the nerve to pace the room, during the verification process, in a referee jersey. Likewise, the process for verification changed throughout the day, despite the party sending out its guidelines ahead of time in writing."

Why is the GOP Losing Virginia? Blame the Republican Party of Virginia: A Case Study in Idiocy | Redstate
​

So, what's that you say? It's not a "suddenly new" set of rules?

Eh?

What is new is the scrutiny that they are using as they compare all the data to the voter registration data base.

Are you really that stupid or does it require some effort?

 

[WorldWatcher]

Lol, yeah because we all know how these cronies only screw over those who really deserve it.

So, if thhis is just politics as usual, can you name another Presidential state primary in the past where five of seven serious candidates were kept off the ballot?

And by serious, I mean they got a lot of donations, advertising on their behalf, were invited to the debates, etc?

Just name one.

Christopher Dodd, Senior Senator from Connecticut 2008.


Chris Dodd presidential campaign, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rick Perry won't make ballot in Virginia - 2008 Presidential Candidates - Zimbio

>>>>

Dont see where anything close to five of seven were kept off the ballot.

Did I miss it?

Do you routinely move goal posts when someone answers your question?



>>>>

 

[JimBowie1958]

Christopher Dodd, Senior Senator from Connecticut 2008.


Chris Dodd presidential campaign, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rick Perry won't make ballot in Virginia - 2008 Presidential Candidates - Zimbio

>>>>

Dont see where anything close to five of seven were kept off the ballot.

Did I miss it?

Do you routinely move goal posts when someone answers you question?



>>>>

Lol, I mean just name one PRIMARY where this percentage of major candidates were disqualified.

Sorry I didnt word the question better.

 

[paperview]

For the honest conservatives out there.
Read this part again: ""Romney, Fred, Rudy, McCain, Huckabee, and Paul all filed over 15,000 signatures each – well above the recommended minimums."

They all filed over 15,000 in 2007. Seems like they knew then about the buffer necessary and didn't take chances. Enough people were easily convinced to sign the petition.

And now, when Gingrich obviously failed to be aware of what his own party in the last election knew was necessary, the narrative turns to how it's the RPV's fault.

This is what Gingrich is famous for - changing the narrative. He has cleverly convinced his swallowers to focus on how the rules shouldn't apply to him and they actually should turn a blind eye to petition fraud. The focus is off him or his failures.

The real narrative here, and this should not be lost on anyone, is how this major candidate, in his own state of residency , which is a significant Super Tuesday Primary was so organizationally weak and frought with incompetence he could not even garner more than 11,050 signatures.

It's a pretty bad sign when people have to defend a guy who can't even get a .003 of those registered voters. With *months* of advance notice, he should have been able to get 20,000 signatures! The people should have been eager to sign petitions if he is so popular. Yet, they didn't. That says a lot.

 

[L.K.Eder]

newt coulda been a contender.

 

[paperview]

Gingrich: Once a cheater, always a cheater.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Guy, the point is, this would not have BEEN an issue if they weren't trying to rig the game.

Yes it would. Nobody is trying to rig the system. Gingrich failed. Why can't you understand that?

Romney gets 5 of the 6 opponents disqualified from the ballot, that's a rigged game.

Nobody got anybody disqualified. Gingrich FAILED.

Maybe we like our nominees to be prepared, but we also like ones with a sense of fair play.

Where is the "fair play" in ignoring the election laws of the state that have been established for years, all for Gingrich?

 

[paperview]

I read this ealier on the FrumForum, a comment of good merit:

" Let me make sure I understand the concern . . .

10,000 validated signatures are required to get on the ballot. The concern here is that the State GOP might have done something radical for this election cycle in response to the mentioned lawsuit. The alleged action? Check to make sure the signatures were valid.

Is this a shift in the rules? No — the signatures always had to be valid. This would be the shocking and radical change of actually enforcing the long-standing rules. The GOP, the party that has been screaming about voter fraud, checked to make sure Mickey Mouse didn’t sign the petition.

This is a big concern for the GOP. It is remarkably unfair to expect Newt and Rick to both understand the rules and comply with them. The long-standing occurrence of being able to file false signatures with impunity is a hallowed tradition, and the State GOP should be ashamed of itself for expecting candidates to obey the laws.

Do I have that right? Because if I do, I’d like to respectfully suggest that the GOP might want to consider if this episode indicates a perhaps slightly more serious issue that y’all ought to think about looking at."


Don’t Blame Romney for Ballot Trouble | FrumForum


Ay-ep.

 

[Full-Auto]

I read this ealier on the FrumForum, a comment of good merit:

" Let me make sure I understand the concern . . .

10,000 validated signatures are required to get on the ballot. The concern here is that the State GOP might have done something radical for this election cycle in response to the mentioned lawsuit. The alleged action? Check to make sure the signatures were valid.

Is this a shift in the rules? No — the signatures always had to be valid. This would be the shocking and radical change of actually enforcing the long-standing rules. The GOP, the party that has been screaming about voter fraud, checked to make sure Mickey Mouse didn’t sign the petition.

This is a big concern for the GOP. It is remarkably unfair to expect Newt and Rick to both understand the rules and comply with them. The long-standing occurrence of being able to file false signatures with impunity is a hallowed tradition, and the State GOP should be ashamed of itself for expecting candidates to obey the laws.

Do I have that right? Because if I do, I’d like to respectfully suggest that the GOP might want to consider if this episode indicates a perhaps slightly more serious issue that y’all ought to think about looking at."


Don’t Blame Romney for Ballot Trouble | FrumForum


Ay-ep.

The solution is super delegates and being able to vote in both caucus and primary events. It worked for Obama, why not the GOP

 

[Toro]

I read this ealier on the FrumForum, a comment of good merit:

" Let me make sure I understand the concern . . .

10,000 validated signatures are required to get on the ballot. The concern here is that the State GOP might have done something radical for this election cycle in response to the mentioned lawsuit. The alleged action? Check to make sure the signatures were valid.

Is this a shift in the rules? No — the signatures always had to be valid. This would be the shocking and radical change of actually enforcing the long-standing rules. The GOP, the party that has been screaming about voter fraud, checked to make sure Mickey Mouse didn’t sign the petition.

This is a big concern for the GOP. It is remarkably unfair to expect Newt and Rick to both understand the rules and comply with them. The long-standing occurrence of being able to file false signatures with impunity is a hallowed tradition, and the State GOP should be ashamed of itself for expecting candidates to obey the laws.

Do I have that right? Because if I do, I’d like to respectfully suggest that the GOP might want to consider if this episode indicates a perhaps slightly more serious issue that y’all ought to think about looking at."


Don’t Blame Romney for Ballot Trouble | FrumForum


Ay-ep.

It's a big giant conspiracy that the VA GOP consistently follows its rules in every election.

 

[paperview]

If only Gingrich had picked up this at his last Barnes & Noble stop.

 

[zzzz]

Notice put out by Pat Mullins, Chairman of the Republican Party of Virginia earlier this year.

...
Under that responsibility, I intend to certify candidates for the Republican Presidential and
Senatorial primaries using the following guidelines:
Under the Code of Virginia, any candidate who wants to have their name placed on the March 6,
2012 Republican Presidential Ballot or the June 12, 2012 U.S. Senate Primary must collect the
signatures of 10,000 registered voters statewide, with at least 400 signatures of registered voters from
each of Virginia’s 11 Congressional Districts.
Any candidate who submits at least 15,000 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions
statewide and has at least 600 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions from each of the 11
Congressional Districts shall be deemed to have met the threshold for qualification and will be certified
(provided, of course, that other requirements of State law have also been met).
If any candidate submits fewer than 15,000 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions
statewide or fewer than 600 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions in one or more of the 11
Congressional Districts, the Republican Party of Virginia will individually verify signatures until the
10,000 signature statewide threshold and/or 400 per Congressional district is met.

http://rpv.org/sites/default/files/2012 Petition Certification Process_1.pdf

These are the petition requirements:

...
Must be signed by not less than 10,000 qualified voters in
Virginia, including at least 400 qualified voters from each of
Virginia's eleven congressional districts, who attest that they
intend to participate in the primary of the same political party
as the candidate named on the petition.
Because many people who are not registered to vote will sign
a petition, it is recommended that 15,000 - 20,000 signatures
be obtained with at least 700 signatures from each
congressional district.
Must provide the true signature, the printed full name and the
full resident address of each qualified voter and the date each
signed the petition.
Although the last four digits of the social security number is
requested, it is not mandatory that it be provided.
Must, on each page, provide an affidavit signed under oath by
the person who circulated it that s/he personally witnessed the
affixing of the signature of each voter on the page and that
s/he is registered, or eligible to be registered, to vote in
Virginia.
Note that a circulator cannot witness his own signature.
Falsely signing this affidavit is a felony under Virginia law.
The petition NEVER can be left unattended.
...

http://rpv.org/sites/default/files/...residential Primary Election 3_6_12 Rev 5.pdf

 

[Toro]

Derp!

 

[JakeStarkey]

The Republicans in VA will vote for candidates who are competent.

The others failed, all by themselves, to get on the ballot and are doofi.

The losers are going to have to live with their acts.

 

[paperview]

Notice put out by Pat Mullins, Chairman of the Republican Party of Virginia earlier this year.

...
Under that responsibility, I intend to certify candidates for the Republican Presidential and
Senatorial primaries using the following guidelines:
Under the Code of Virginia, any candidate who wants to have their name placed on the March 6,
2012 Republican Presidential Ballot or the June 12, 2012 U.S. Senate Primary must collect the
signatures of 10,000 registered voters statewide, with at least 400 signatures of registered voters from
each of Virginia’s 11 Congressional Districts.
Any candidate who submits at least 15,000 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions
statewide and has at least 600 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions from each of the 11
Congressional Districts shall be deemed to have met the threshold for qualification and will be certified
(provided, of course, that other requirements of State law have also been met).
If any candidate submits fewer than 15,000 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions
statewide or fewer than 600 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions in one or more of the 11
Congressional Districts, the Republican Party of Virginia will individually verify signatures until the
10,000 signature statewide threshold and/or 400 per Congressional district is met.

http://rpv.org/sites/default/files/2012 Petition Certification Process_1.pdf

These are the petition requirements:

...
Must be signed by not less than 10,000 qualified voters in
Virginia, including at least 400 qualified voters from each of
Virginia's eleven congressional districts, who attest that they
intend to participate in the primary of the same political party
as the candidate named on the petition.
Because many people who are not registered to vote will sign
a petition, it is recommended that 15,000 - 20,000 signatures
be obtained with at least 700 signatures from each
congressional district.
Must provide the true signature, the printed full name and the
full resident address of each qualified voter and the date each
signed the petition.
Although the last four digits of the social security number is
requested, it is not mandatory that it be provided.
Must, on each page, provide an affidavit signed under oath by
the person who circulated it that s/he personally witnessed the
affixing of the signature of each voter on the page and that
s/he is registered, or eligible to be registered, to vote in
Virginia.
Note that a circulator cannot witness his own signature.
Falsely signing this affidavit is a felony under Virginia law.
The petition NEVER can be left unattended.
...

http://rpv.org/sites/default/files/...residential Primary Election 3_6_12 Rev 5.pdf

Well, howdy do-do!

Lookie there. A formal paper dating back to May of 2011.

"ADOPTED BY THE STATE BOARD OF ELECTIONS ON MAY 25, 2011."

Sent out this summer. And the connie idiots somehow want to pretend 'it's all a con-speer-a-SEE. See?

Good find zzzz.

 

[Synthaholic]

from the sopurce this was taken from (a conservative VA magazine) - another anonymous, but I can't see why someone would lie about this:

Josh December 24, 2011 10:20 am I was one of the volunteers getting signatures for Romney. We had nearly 500 volunteers working every parade, GOP event, metro/VRE station, mall, craft fair, etc. in VA.

We made sure volunteers qualified the signers as registered VA voters and watched them properly sign & print their name, put their address down, give the date and the last four of their SS number.
There is no VA conspiracy. It was simple hard work by dedicated volunteers and a superior organization. What does this say about the rest that failed to qualify? Maybe the big leagues aren’t for them just yet. Romney had their efforts underway at the end of the summer til December. That is why they submitted the most – 16,000. I also saw Ron Paul supporters out too getting signatures. Why didn’t the other campaigns think they might need to do the same? Maybe they didn’t think they’d be around in March 2012.



BREAKING: Gingrich 2,000 Ballot Signatures Short? – Bearing Drift: Virginia's Conservative Voice

Bingo!

 

[paperview]

In case any of you Newt swallowers missed it:

If any candidate submits fewer than 15,000 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions
statewide or fewer than 600 signatures of registered voters on valid petitions in one or more of the 11
Congressional Districts, the Republican Party of Virginia will individually verify signatures until the
10,000 signature statewide threshold and/or 400 per Congressional district is met.

http://rpv.org/sites/default/files/2012 Petition Certification Process_1.pdf

Because many people who are not registered to vote will sign
a petition, it is recommended that 15,000 - 20,000 signatures
be obtained with at least 700 signatures from each
congressional district. "
http://rpv.org/sites/default/files/...residential Primary Election 3_6_12 Rev 5.pdf

^^^^^ WRITTEN IN MAY. MAY 2011.

Clear as the little pimples on the end of your nose.

So, try again with the new spin that "they changed the rules" just a week before...it's a conspiracy!...the fix was in....blah blah...

Try it.

If you can.

 

[Synthaholic]

TWO out of FOUR who actually submitted the paperwork were struck.

You can't be "struck from the ballot" when you don't even TRY to get on it.

If he had any integrity, he'd stop repeating the lie.

Alright, that's it, right there! You're lying. You're being sucked into the lie, speaking in their words. This is the stuff that gives them power, don't do it!

Last week, nobody was on the ballot. NOBODY! Two of the fourt who tried to get on the ballot failed to get on the ballot. They didn't fulfill their obligations. They were never on the ballot in the first place, so they were never struck from the ballot.

OK, then 'KEPT OFF THE BALLOT'.

Quibbling over semantics is the surest sign of a losing arguement.

And that's a good thing! It weeds out the "The Rent Is Too Damn High" candidates.

Tell me: Disney has raised it's admission to around $80. If I show up with $100, but a percentage of it is in Mexican Pesos and Korean Wan, do they have to let me in? No. They have successfully "KEPT ME OUT OF THE PARK".

It's a CONSPIRACY!!!! It's the Amusement Park Elite rigging the game!!!

See, they only take U.S. currency. Their rules. I should know the rules and show up with at least $80 U.S.

Newt should have known the rules. Especially since he's such a brain.

 

[Inthemiddle]

All this belly aching from the Gingrich lackeys. And we're still left with these facts:

*Gingrich did not submit the necessary signatures
*All the candidates were given ample notice of the requirements
*It is Romney's fault. Or Obama's fault. Or "the Establishment's" fault.


All this talk of signatures and addresses, I'm realizing more and more where the blame lies: GINGRICH AND HIS CAMPAIGN STAFF.

I'm sure that most of you here have never been involved in collecting signatures to get a candidate on the ballot. But I have. So let me tell you a little bit about how things tend to go....

First, there are two basic approaches one can take. You can try to get volunteers out to collect signatures, or you can try to pay people to collect signatures. The benefit of volunteers is that it's free, but the drawback is that you have to have more of them, while having more difficulty recruiting people who are willing to do the work, and you're gambling on whether they're going to put forth much effort. The benefit of paying people is that you can more easily recruit people and they are more likely to go out and attempt to collect signatures, all of which leads to more overall signatures. The drawback is that it can become expensive, you have to worry about unscrupulous workers forging signatures for extra money, and paying for invalid signatures that are collected by honest mistake which don't get you any closer to where you're going.

I'm betting that Gingrich's campaign used paid contractors to collect signatures. When I've done this, the deal usually goes that for every signature you collect, you get a small payment, say $2 per signature. But, there's an additional criterion, to help mitigate some of the problems I just mentioned. Usually, there's a threshold for your valid signatures which determined whether you get paid for every signature you collect, or only the ones that turn out to be valid. So, let's say that the threshold is 85%. That means that if 85% or more of your signatures are valid, then you'll get paid for 100% of your total signatures. On the other hand, if less than 85% are valid, you'll be paid for only your total valid signatures.

Now, in my experience, the people running the show tend to encourage collectors to collect as many signatures as possible, and not worry as much about validity. They'll tell you "If someone says they aren't sure whether they've changed their address on their registration yet, take the signature anyway. You can't get paid for their signature if you don't collect it." Of course, it makes sense that they encourage this. They want the signatures. If it's invalid, the campaign doesn't lose anything, as opposed to not having it at all. But there's another side of it. The campaign wants you to have less than that 85% validity because they don't want to pay for invalid signatures. And since they recruit by advertising things like "TEMP WORK, MAKE UP TO $500 A DAY" they tend to draw in alot of idiots foaming at the mouth for get-rich-quick BS, who just don't think about it.

In any event, when I've done this stuff, I took a very different approach. I was intent on quality over quantity, and intent on having at least 85% valid signatures. I would always firmly question people to ensure that their signature would be valid, and would decline to take their signatures if I felt there was a good chance that their address wasn't going to match, or whatever. I was in it for the money after all. And I NEVER once fell short of whatever my validity threshold was. I still always managed to average 50 signatures an hour. I was just that smart and that good.

So the point to all of this is that collecting valid signatures is NOT that difficult by any means. It just takes a little bit of effort (and I mean LITTLE) and a little bit of the right focus and priorities. If Gingrich needed 10,000 valid signatures I could have gotten him in two months by myself. Now that I'm thinking about it, too bad we didn't know in September how this was going to turn out. Maybe I should have sent him my resume. I would have given him 15,000 signatures with at least 85% validity, for the bargain price of $23,000 plus travel accommodations. Small beans in terms of campaign expenses.

Gingrich has nobody to blame other than himself and his campaign.