Various Thoughts on the Issues of Homosexuality

[Howey]

God didn't claim that homosexuality is a sin, the Bible did.

God didn't write the Bible, humans did.

Greed is a sin, but not homosexuality, according to God in the Bible.

So, you quot scripture on that ? Where you get that justcoutcof curiosity. Even so, Nature rejects homosexuality.

WHY post your ignorance for all to see????===2 Timothy 3:16 ►
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.

A convenient translation that appeared for the first time in the homophobic late 19th century bibles.

 

[GISMYS]

Throughout the Old Testament it was mentioned repeated that the Scripture is the word of God (Jer 1:9, 31:2; 2 Sam 23:2; 1 Kings 20:13). God also instructed His spokesmen to write the message down (Ex 17:14; Jer 30:2).

 

[Dr Grump]

So basically, the First Amendment be damned, correct? .

Your first amendments rights stop when it starts impacting on others civil rights. Let's change out the words "gay marriage" for "black" or "woman" and see how well your argument stacks up...

I can't call you a fuckwad if it makes it impossible for you to walk down the street?

Pretty sure it doesn't actually work that way.

You can call me anything you like. However, you can't stop me doing something that is within my civil rights because of your bigotted behaviour. No too hard to understand. Is it?

 

[Dr Grump]

So basically, the First Amendment be damned, correct? .

Your first amendments rights stop when it starts impacting on others civil rights. Let's change out the words "gay marriage" for "black" or "woman" and see how well your argument stacks up...

Likewise for you. So, someones right to be gay can infringe on my civil rights? Am I hearing this correctly? Not buying it. Your right to equality ends when it infringes on MY civil rights, buddy.

Er, no that is not what I am saying at all. I cannot think of one instance - under normal circumstances (ie, a gay person just going around there everyday business like everybody else) - how their life would impact on yours. I know a tonne of gay people and not once in my life has their life impacted on mine. So tell me, how are your civil rights being infringed if a gay couple get married?

 

[jillian]

The bolded: no it doesn't. Hogwash. It may offend someone's sensibilities, but it doesn't impinge on their liberties.

You do realize that those very same arguments were used against mixed-race marriages not all that long ago.

But it's nice to know you are a constitutional scholar and already know everything. You are also a Bible scholar and know everything, so there is no need for further discussion.

Bolded:

You do realize that Democrats made those arguments, correct?

Italicized:

And who is it running away now, Stat? It's nice to know that when confronted with actual reasoning on the subject, you tuck tail and run. That's nice to know.

No: Racists made those arguments, racists who found their way into the loving arms Nixon's Republican Party, thanks to the Southern State Strategy.

I run away from nothing, but with you no one can debate anything. You already know everything. You still have not answered two questions, which means you are not interested or capable. So, I simply gave up on you.

they do like to ignore that, don't they? it's been more than 40 years since the bigots were dems.

i think it's amusing ....

then they'll pretend they're the party of lincoln.

 

[bayoubill]

Spoiler: Invitations. Please don't quote this post.

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Spoiler: Invitations. Please don't quote this post.

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[/QUOTE]

dunno why Wake invited me into this discussion...

I don't give a flying fuck if guys wanna pack fudge or chicks wanna munch carpets...

ain't none of my business... 'n, imho, anyone else's for that matter...

 

[bayoubill]

THE WORD OF GOD has the first and last word on the abomination of sick minded sexual perversion.===Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. 11 Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 1 corinthians 6:9-11

meh... sometimes I just wanna tell God to kiss my pasty white ass...

 

[GISMYS]

the word of god has the first and last word on the abomination of sick minded sexual perversion.===don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the kingdom of god? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 10 or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the kingdom of god. 11 some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with god by calling on the name of the lord jesus christ and by the spirit of our god. 1 corinthians 6:9-11

meh... Sometimes i just wanna tell god to kiss my pasty white ass...

why tell the world that you are a total fool bound for eternal hell??????????

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Lol. No. Anti interracial marriage laws had nothing to do with Nixon's Southern Strategy, KNB.

No, but racist Southern Dixiecrats became racist Southern Republicans because of the southern strategy. That's why it's absolutely hilarious and horrifying to see Republican mouth-breathers today trying to claim to be the party of Lincoln.

Abraham Lincoln would shoot himself in the head if he ever watched FOX & Friends.

I'm pretty sure Lincoln would shoot himself in the head because of people like you actually attempting to equate homo marriage with slavery.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

You want them to have every benefit that heterosexual married couples have....but not call it marriage? Is that what you are saying?

It ISN'T marriage as marriage has been defined for many millenia. The traditional marriage laws are/were currently 100% equitable and applied without to every single man, woman, and child in whatever state. And every single law related to marriage was to a) encourage traditional marriage and b) provide essential protection for any children resulting from such marriage. Obviously no children will be produced from a gay union and a gay union is not traditional marriage, so you cannot allow gays to 'marry' without changing the definition and purpose of the marriage laws; i.e. without making marriage into something different than it is.

At the same time, there are those, gay and straight, who for whatever reason cannot or do not want to enter into a traditional marriage, but who need some tax benefits, visitation and inheritance rights, etc. enjoyed by married people, and who need/want to form themselves into legally recognized family units for that purpose. I very much support laws to accommodate this. I just want it to be called something other than marriage.

oh neat this argument. Marriage has changed by definition numerous times.
regardless it doesnt matter. This opinion you have is loosing state by state. eventually it will be law and you will be irrelevant.

When has marriage ever changed from the definition of a man and woman consenting and joining together willingly? Most examples I can think of never got the light of day or even consideration until now. Polygamy never changed it, homosexuality never changed it, pedophelia never changed it, beastiality never changed it.

Show me some changes in history to support your claim that marriage is a moving target and accepted by the majority.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Bolded:

You do realize that Democrats made those arguments, correct?

Italicized:

And who is it running away now, Stat? It's nice to know that when confronted with actual reasoning on the subject, you tuck tail and run. That's nice to know.

No: Racists made those arguments, racists who found their way into the loving arms Nixon's Republican Party, thanks to the Southern State Strategy.

I run away from nothing, but with you no one can debate anything. You already know everything. You still have not answered two questions, which means you are not interested or capable. So, I simply gave up on you.

they do like to ignore that, don't they? it's been more than 40 years since the bigots were dems.

i think it's amusing ....

then they'll pretend they're the party of lincoln.

So your last racist was LBJ?

“I'll have those ******* voting Democratic for the next 200 years. [Touting his underlying intentions for the "Great Society" programs, LBJ confided with two like-minded governors on Air Force One]” I'm pretty sure his prediction has been correct so far. Not because his ideas did anything to help but he handed out the cheese to the gullible. The racism never changed.

Robert Byrd, a well known klan member and the high cyclops of not giving a single fuck about the ******* actually got the first black president to come to his funeral and make a speech praising him. How humiliating is that? You have the first black president in history and he actually goes to a klan members funeral to praise him for his good work.

And then you have obie, the uplifter of all the poor black folks who just need a little help. Except they are fairing worse than any other race group under his policies. Yet they still vote for him.

Maybe LBJ was right, just give them enough to survive and take away any chance at success and we own their asses for 200 years. Give them a chance to succeed on their own and you have republican voters, can't have that.

 

[freedombecki]

[ame=http://youtu.be/WcBnJw-H2wQ]The Beatles - Let It Be Lyrics - YouTube[/ame]

 

[TemplarKormac]

Your first amendments rights stop when it starts impacting on others civil rights. Let's change out the words "gay marriage" for "black" or "woman" and see how well your argument stacks up...

I can't call you a fuckwad if it makes it impossible for you to walk down the street?

Pretty sure it doesn't actually work that way.

You can call me anything you like. However, you can't stop me doing something that is within my civil rights because of your bigotted behaviour. No too hard to understand. Is it?

Gee, I wonder why a Christian can't do that? Are you also not a bigot?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Bolded:

You do realize that Democrats made those arguments, correct?

Italicized:

And who is it running away now, Stat? It's nice to know that when confronted with actual reasoning on the subject, you tuck tail and run. That's nice to know.

No: Racists made those arguments, racists who found their way into the loving arms Nixon's Republican Party, thanks to the Southern State Strategy.

I run away from nothing, but with you no one can debate anything. You already know everything. You still have not answered two questions, which means you are not interested or capable. So, I simply gave up on you.

they do like to ignore that, don't they? it's been more than 40 years since the bigots were dems.

i think it's amusing ....

then they'll pretend they're the party of lincoln.

What's amusing here is that more than one of you are sitting there equating homosexuality with slavery. I bet there are now hundreds of thousands of slaves spinning in their graves right now. Actually, for 6 years, we've had a racist in the White House; if you really want to be technical. He's done more to widen the racial divide than anyone in the last 40 years.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Your first amendments rights stop when it starts impacting on others civil rights. Let's change out the words "gay marriage" for "black" or "woman" and see how well your argument stacks up...

Likewise for you. So, someones right to be gay can infringe on my civil rights? Am I hearing this correctly? Not buying it. Your right to equality ends when it infringes on MY civil rights, buddy.

Er, no that is not what I am saying at all. I cannot think of one instance - under normal circumstances (ie, a gay person just going around there everyday business like everybody else) - how their life would impact on yours. I know a tonne of gay people and not once in my life has their life impacted on mine. So tell me, how are your civil rights being infringed if a gay couple get married?

As soon as they walk into a Christian business making demands that a man of faith appease something he sees as a sin. Lawsuits result, supreme court rulings are made, and those rulings ultimately affect the America I live in.

Either you cannot think, or are not willing to think of a circumstance, ergo no real argument. "I know of a tonne of gay people" is nothing but you falling on mere anecdotal evidence to prove your point. Please.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Maybe you have the religious right to do your job. A couple is getting married, they go look for a baker to make a wedding cake, they find one they like and ask for a wedding cake, the baker says, "No, I won't make a cake for you because God says you're evil."

Where the fuck did the couple infringe on anyone else's rights? By walking into a publicly advertised business for a product? And you want to call me 'dense'? Come on, man. You're not even trying to make sense.

Except that isn't how it happened. Gay couple goes to get a wedding cake and the baker declined because he his religious convictions did not support gay marriage and doing the wedding cake would have required the baker's attendance at that function. Large wedding cakes are almost always assembled and decorated on location, not at the bakery.

If the baker had declined to set up a large cake at the Westboro Baptist Church or a Ku Klux Klan meeting or a dog fight or some other less politically sensitive venue, nobody would have thought much about that. But because the couple was gay, the baker is branded an evil person even though he would quite willingly serve everybody, gay or hooded Klansman or anybody else who walked into the business and could pick it up on premises.

If gay people want respect and tolerance for who and what they are, they really should allow others to be who and what they are too.

Citizen's United notwithstanding, businesses are not people and do not have personal rights. A person can walk away. A business is not permitted to discriminate.

Next you will have bakers refusing cakes to interracial couples, or couples where partners were previously divorced, etc.

When you open a business, you take your chances. If you do not want to serve all members of the public, refrain from opening the doors.

They were in the wrong line of work - time for a career change.

Regards from Rosie

Citizen's United notwithstanding, businesses are not people and do not have personal rights. A person can walk away. A business is not permitted to discriminate.

Actually, until June of this year, when SCOTUS makes it's ruling on Hobby Lobby, they will determine if a business or a large company is indeed corporeal in nature or not.

Think about it, is it not discriminatory to force someone to act against their faith? Just as you claim we "discriminate" by refusing to serve someone for religious reasons?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

No: Racists made those arguments, racists who found their way into the loving arms Nixon's Republican Party, thanks to the Southern State Strategy.

I run away from nothing, but with you no one can debate anything. You already know everything. You still have not answered two questions, which means you are not interested or capable. So, I simply gave up on you.

they do like to ignore that, don't they? it's been more than 40 years since the bigots were dems.

i think it's amusing ....

then they'll pretend they're the party of lincoln.

What's amusing here is that more than one of you are sitting there equating homosexuality with slavery. I bet there are now hundreds of thousands of slaves spinning in their graves right now. Actually, for 6 years, we've had a racist in the White House; if you really want to be technical. He's done more to widen the racial divide than anyone in the last 40 years.

Nonsense.

No one is ‘comparing’ gay Americans seeking their comprehensive civil liberties to ‘slavery.’

To paraphrase Justice Kennedy in Lawrence, each generation seeks its own individual liberty using the principles enshrined in the Constitution to reach that goal.

The 14th Amendment guarantees every person living in the United States equal protection of the law, in this case equal access to marriage law for same-sex couples. You and others on the right hostile to gay Americans aren’t going to cloud and confuse the issue with inane and irrelevant references to ‘slavery,’

 

[Plasmaball]

It ISN'T marriage as marriage has been defined for many millenia. The traditional marriage laws are/were currently 100% equitable and applied without to every single man, woman, and child in whatever state. And every single law related to marriage was to a) encourage traditional marriage and b) provide essential protection for any children resulting from such marriage. Obviously no children will be produced from a gay union and a gay union is not traditional marriage, so you cannot allow gays to 'marry' without changing the definition and purpose of the marriage laws; i.e. without making marriage into something different than it is.

At the same time, there are those, gay and straight, who for whatever reason cannot or do not want to enter into a traditional marriage, but who need some tax benefits, visitation and inheritance rights, etc. enjoyed by married people, and who need/want to form themselves into legally recognized family units for that purpose. I very much support laws to accommodate this. I just want it to be called something other than marriage.

oh neat this argument. Marriage has changed by definition numerous times.
regardless it doesnt matter. This opinion you have is loosing state by state. eventually it will be law and you will be irrelevant.

When has marriage ever changed from the definition of a man and woman consenting and joining together willingly? Most examples I can think of never got the light of day or even consideration until now. Polygamy never changed it, homosexuality never changed it, pedophelia never changed it, beastiality never changed it.

Show me some changes in history to support your claim that marriage is a moving target and accepted by the majority.

How marriage has changed over centuries - The Week

The first recorded evidence of marriage contracts and ceremonies dates to 4,000 years ago, in Mesopotamia. In the ancient world, marriage served primarily as a means of preserving power, with kings and other members of the ruling class marrying off daughters to forge alliances, acquire land, and produce legitimate heirs. Even in the lower classes, women had little say over whom they married. The purpose of marriage was the production of heirs, as implied by the Latin word matrimonium, which is derived from mater (mother).

Go fuck yourself.

When did the church get involved?
In ancient Rome, marriage was a civil affair governed by imperial law. But when the empire collapsed, in the 5th century, church courts took over and elevated marriage to a holy union. As the church's power grew through the Middle Ages, so did its influence over marriage. In 1215, marriage was declared one of the church's seven sacraments, alongside rites like baptism and penance. But it was only in the 16th century that the church decreed that weddings be performed in public, by a priest, and before witnesses.

before that marriage was utter chaos am i right?
Fuck you

Gay 'marriage' in medieval Europe
Same-sex unions aren't a recent invention. Until the 13th century, male-bonding ceremonies were common in churches across the Mediterranean. Apart from the couples' gender, these events were almost indistinguishable from other marriages of the era. Twelfth-century liturgies for same-sex unions — also known as "spiritual brotherhoods" — included the recital of marriage prayers, the joining of hands at the altar, and a ceremonial kiss. Some historians believe these unions were merely a way to seal alliances and business deals. But Eric Berkowitz, author of Sex and Punishment, says it is "difficult to believe that these rituals did not contemplate erotic contact. In fact, it was the sex between the men involved that later caused same-sex unions to be banned." That happened in 1306, when the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus II declared such ceremonies, along with sorcery and incest, to be unchristian.

go fuck yourselves people...You are on the wrong side of history.

 

[RosieS]

Except that isn't how it happened. Gay couple goes to get a wedding cake and the baker declined because he his religious convictions did not support gay marriage and doing the wedding cake would have required the baker's attendance at that function. Large wedding cakes are almost always assembled and decorated on location, not at the bakery.

If the baker had declined to set up a large cake at the Westboro Baptist Church or a Ku Klux Klan meeting or a dog fight or some other less politically sensitive venue, nobody would have thought much about that. But because the couple was gay, the baker is branded an evil person even though he would quite willingly serve everybody, gay or hooded Klansman or anybody else who walked into the business and could pick it up on premises.

If gay people want respect and tolerance for who and what they are, they really should allow others to be who and what they are too.

Citizen's United notwithstanding, businesses are not people and do not have personal rights. A person can walk away. A business is not permitted to discriminate.

Next you will have bakers refusing cakes to interracial couples, or couples where partners were previously divorced, etc.

When you open a business, you take your chances. If you do not want to serve all members of the public, refrain from opening the doors.

They were in the wrong line of work - time for a career change.

Regards from Rosie

Citizen's United notwithstanding, businesses are not people and do not have personal rights. A person can walk away. A business is not permitted to discriminate.

Actually, until June of this year, when SCOTUS makes it's ruling on Hobby Lobby, they will determine if a business or a large company is indeed corporeal in nature or not.

Think about it, is it not discriminatory to force someone to act against their faith? Just as you claim we "discriminate" by refusing to serve someone for religious reasons?

Yes it would be - If the business were a Christian bookstore or some similar business.

As it stands, businesses are licensed by their cities -try running a business without a license - and the government cannot license religious entities because religious entities are exempt from business licenses and taxation.

So be a religious entity and avoid licensing and taxes, or be a city business and serve ALL residents.

A clear cut (lifestyle) choice.

Regards from Rosie

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Maybe you have the religious right to do your job. A couple is getting married, they go look for a baker to make a wedding cake, they find one they like and ask for a wedding cake, the baker says, "No, I won't make a cake for you because God says you're evil."

Where the fuck did the couple infringe on anyone else's rights? By walking into a publicly advertised business for a product? And you want to call me 'dense'? Come on, man. You're not even trying to make sense.

Except that isn't how it happened. Gay couple goes to get a wedding cake and the baker declined because he his religious convictions did not support gay marriage and doing the wedding cake would have required the baker's attendance at that function. Large wedding cakes are almost always assembled and decorated on location, not at the bakery.

If the baker had declined to set up a large cake at the Westboro Baptist Church or a Ku Klux Klan meeting or a dog fight or some other less politically sensitive venue, nobody would have thought much about that. But because the couple was gay, the baker is branded an evil person even though he would quite willingly serve everybody, gay or hooded Klansman or anybody else who walked into the business and could pick it up on premises.

If gay people want respect and tolerance for who and what they are, they really should allow others to be who and what they are too.

Citizen's United notwithstanding, businesses are not people and do not have personal rights. A person can walk away. A business is not permitted to discriminate.

Next you will have bakers refusing cakes to interracial couples, or couples where partners were previously divorced, etc.

When you open a business, you take your chances. If you do not want to serve all members of the public, refrain from opening the doors.

They were in the wrong line of work - time for a career change.

Regards from Rosie

Businesses don't have rights? Funny, the Supreme court disagrees.