Very warm, no modern day trees, no ice, high seas

[westwall]

Not necessary, PE is just about the speed of evolution.

Welll DUH!

 

[fncceo]

What do you think all those long-necked dinosaurs were reaching for?

Early trees consisted of lycophytes and ferns, in the Devonian and Carboniferous eras, they grew quite tall. They weren't, however, trees in the modern sense.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So why the discrepancy with the climate scientists of today? Why the claim of pending doom and gloom?

Because of the rapid change from the current state of affairs. Because of unknown possible tipping points.

 

[westwall]

Early trees consisted of lycophytes and ferns, in the Devonian and Carboniferous eras, they grew quite tall. They weren't, however, trees in the modern sense.

Don't forget the Lepidodendrons, the scale trees were everywhere too and distinct from the lycophytes.

 

[alang1216]

Wow, you are truly a master at stating the obvious.

You appear to be a master of unsupported assertions.

 

[ding]

Not necessary, PE is just about the speed of evolution.

Ummmm... no. It's about genetic mutations which occurs across a species at approximately the same time. The vast majority of fossil records do not support speciation due to slight genetic changes over long periods of time.

 

[alang1216]

Ummmm... no. It's about genetic mutations which occurs across a species at approximately the same time. The vast majority of fossil records do not support speciation due to slight genetic changes over long periods of time.

I think you'd agree that the fossil record shows the continuous appearance of new species. Seems to me they either evolved from an ancestral species (which the evidence supports) or they were supernatural creations (for which there is no evidence). I don't know the exact process of evolution, only that it has happened.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think you'd agree that the fossil record shows the continuous appearance of new species. Seems to me they either evolved from an ancestral species (which the evidence supports) or they were supernatural creations (for which there is no evidence). I don't know the exact process of evolution, only that it has happened.

Interestingly, the fossil record is claimed by scientists as evidence of both gradualism and punctuated equilibrium (long periods of no change, followed by rapid period of change).

So what seems to be emerging from the theory and evidence is that evolution happens at all speeds.

 

[alang1216]

Interestingly, the fossil record is claimed by scientists as evidence of both gradualism and punctuated equilibrium (long periods of no change, followed by rapid period of change).

So what seems to be emerging from the theory and evidence is that evolution happens at all speeds.

Yes, and like everything else, way more complex than it first appears.

 

[westwall]

I think you'd agree that the fossil record shows the continuous appearance of new species. Seems to me they either evolved from an ancestral species (which the evidence supports) or they were supernatural creations (for which there is no evidence). I don't know the exact process of evolution, only that it has happened.

The fossil record is actually very sparse. The Cambrian Period is the first time hard parts appear. Before that the world was populated by jellyfishes and other soft bodied critters that we have no fossil record of.

Figure out how and why critters developed hard shells (a miraculous happening) all over the world simultaneously, and you have an instant PhD.

 

[alang1216]

Figure out how and why critters developed hard shells (a miraculous happening) all over the world simultaneously, and you have an instant PhD.

A miraculous happening that only took a few billion years.

How many millions of years are there in 'simultaneously'?

 

[westwall]

A miraculous happening that only took a few billion years.

How many millions of years are there in 'simultaneously'?

Evolution happens because of pressure. What thing caused all of those critters, to suddenly NEED to develop shells and bones?
And no one knows exacly how long it took, but it IS the demarcation from the Pre-Cambrian to Cambrian epochs. So, in fossil record terms, it is simultaneous.

That is the first massive eruption of speciation (called the Cambrian Explosion) that we have evidence of.

 

[ding]

I think you'd agree that the fossil record shows the continuous appearance of new species. Seems to me they either evolved from an ancestral species (which the evidence supports) or they were supernatural creations (for which there is no evidence). I don't know the exact process of evolution, only that it has happened.

Missing transitional fossils is why the theory of PE was developed in the first place. I haven't gotten within a hundred miles of supernatural creations. Unless of course you believe wholesale genetic mutations en mass is a supernatural phenomenon. What it tells me is that nature is connected in ways we can't imagine let alone understand.

 

[alang1216]

Evolution happens because of pressure. What thing caused all of those critters, to suddenly NEED to develop shells and bones?

The fact you can ask that question shows an utter lack of understanding of evolution.

There was likely predator and prey relationships from the very beginning of life. Any defense the prey could develop would give them a survival advantage over their peers. A thicker skin or calcium nodules embedded in their skin would do exactly that.

 

[alang1216]

Missing transitional fossils is why the theory of PE was developed in the first place. I haven't gotten with a hundred miles of supernatural creations. Unless of course you believe wholesale genetic mutations en mass is a supernatural phenomenon. What it tells me is that nature is connected in ways we can't imagine let a lone understand.

Every fossil is a 'transitional' fossil. I have yet to see anything supernatural in the process of evolution. We may not understand its mechanisms completely but you don't want to put God into those gaps, that never ends well for God.

 

[ding]

Every fossil is a 'transitional' fossil. I have yet to see anything supernatural in the process of evolution. We may not understand its mechanisms completely but you don't want to put God into those gaps, that never ends well for God.

Are they really?

A transitional fossil may be defined as a fossil which exhibits traits common to both ancestral and derived groups. This is especially important when groups are sharply differentiated.

Ummm... you are the one who keeps bringing up God, bro. I haven't gotten within a hundred miles of God. You seemed to be obsessed with God.

 

[westwall]

The fact you can ask that question shows an utter lack of understanding of evolution.

There was likely predator and prey relationships from the very beginning of life. Any defense the prey could develop would give them a survival advantage over their peers. A thicker skin or calcium nodules embedded in their skin would do exactly that.

The fact that I can ask that question implies that I HAVE spent a good deal of time thinking about it. As have MANY others. Which means you are not conversant with the scientific method, or with thinking in general.

Of course there were predator/prey relationships from the beginning. That is self evident. Stromatolites are the oldest fossils out there, and THEY are evidence of predator/prey relationships going back billions of years. The question is WHAT was the pressure that caused hard parts to arise simultaneously all over the world. THAT is the question.

 

[westwall]

Every fossil is a 'transitional' fossil. I have yet to see anything supernatural in the process of evolution. We may not understand its mechanisms completely but you don't want to put God into those gaps, that never ends well for God.

No, they aren't. Sheesh. Read up on the subject more than wiki.

 

[westwall]

Are they really?

A transitional fossil may be defined as a fossil which exhibits traits common to both ancestral and derived groups. This is especially important when groups are sharply differentiated.

Ummm... you are the one who keeps bringing up God, bro. I haven't gotten within a hundred miles of God. You seemed to be obsessed with God.

Ain't it the truth. The clown clearly knows NOTHING about the subject. We, OTOH do, and we are bringing up scientific questions, and observations, which he has no basic understanding of, so he immediately resorts to calling us religious (which I am not, I am an avowed agnostic) nutters.

HE is the one pursuing religion. Not us.

What a loser.

 

[alang1216]

Are they really?

A transitional fossil may be defined as a fossil which exhibits traits common to both ancestral and derived groups. This is especially important when groups are sharply differentiated.

I have traits I share with my parents and my children so I'd say I am transitional (and I'm certainly an old fossil).

Ummm... you are the one who keeps bringing up God, bro. I haven't gotten within a hundred miles of God. You seemed to be obsessed with God.

You keep injecting a supernatural undertone so I think it is a reasonable reaction.