Veterans are being told to pay back bonuses..........

[ogibillm]

Does anyone else find this reprehensible?

Yes. They should refuse to pay back a dime. The government shouldn't be allowed to be an Indian giver.

They aren't being given the option of refusing. Tax refunds are intercepted. Liens are filed against their property. Wages are being garnished.

i do think working out payment plans is in everyone's best interests

 

[TooTall]

It was the recruiters committing fraud. If they received bonuses for meeting enlistment goals, they should forfeit those bonuses

However, the recruiter is representing the US Army in negotiating with enlisted soldiers. If the soldier is told $15,000 for three years and does the three years...It is the Army that is responsible for the actions of its agents...not the soldiers

I'm sorry that's just not how it works.

they didn't earn the money. they wrongly took resources that could have been used elsewhere. sorry they were ignorant about the contract they signed, but ignorance doesn't mean you get to keep stolen money

An enlistment is a contract with clearly defined terms.

The soldier agrees to serve 3-4 years for a given rate and any enlistment bonuses are clearly identified.

The recruiter or some other official signs on behalf of the Army. The soldier signs on his own behalf. Then you have a contract

If the Army is not satisfied with the terms agreed to by its agent, their grievance is with the agent not the soldier

the army is satisfied. the re-enlisting soldiers that did not meet the eligibility requirements for the bonuses are not

The Army has the ability to review each enlistment contract before it is approved and before a bonus check is paid. They elected not to do that

However, after the soldier has served the enlistment, is no time to review the eligibility of a soldier
A contract is "this for that" The soldier fulfilled the that
There is no way for the Army to "make well" a soldier who has given up three years of their lives

Agreed.


Sadly, the worst of it is, when the DoD determines you've been overpaid....they want it back...ALL AT ONCE...regardless of the hardship.

Not true. Many years ago I was going to College on the GI Bill and for some unknown reason they kept sending me checks all summer even though I was not attending the summer session. I deposited the checks in my savings account and drew interest until they caught their mistake. One day a government lawyer showed up at my house and presented me with the bill. I wrote him a check and he was absolutely amazed. He then sat for awhile and explained that I was the first one to pay him in the three years that he had been collecting for GI bill over payment. Most of the others that he talked to were put on a payment schedule of 5 or 10 dollars a month and that they usually made one or two payments and than quit making payments. It doesn't speak well for some of my fellow veterans, but Government did not insist on getting it all at once.

 

[WillowTree]

That's just typical of an asshole liberal administration. Promise our kids money to go to war, let them go to war then make them pay back the money. A tub full of despicable.

 

[Moonglow]

Reagan let us have the GI bill for education, if you made payments to it...

 

[Asclepias]

I'm guessing what is being left unsaid is that the people that recieved the bonuses were knowingly involved in fraud. One guy sounds stupid and would rather lose his military benefits than pay back the bonus.

Actually, in the military, you kinda depend on the personnel clerk to tell you what bonuses you are or are not eligible for.

And, I promise you, no personnel clerk will pay you a bonus that you are not eligible for. Why? Because there is too much paperwork for the authorization that can easily be traced. They have to verify your eligibility with the regs, figure out from the regs provided what the bonus amount is, type a Pg. 13 Record of Memorandum stating that you received the bonus, as well as the other documents that you send to disbursing to get the payment made.

Nope, there was no fraud here, just a bunch of idiots at the top who write the regs that got it wrong. Everyone down the chain was just following what the regs said.

Depends. The frontline recruiters get bonuses for the people they get to reenlist. I've been through the process and there is a lot of corruption in the military.

Dunno how it works in your service, but I can tell you how it works in the Navy.

For people on their initial enlistment? Getting them in is taken care of by recruiters, and recruiters DO NOT get any kind of bonus for people they bring into the service.

For those who are already in and working on their first or subsequent enlistment? Well, that job is taken care of by the Career Counselor (of which most commands have only 1), and they will help them figure out what their benefits would be, as well as many help service members to negotiate orders to their next command, but NONE OF THEM were ever paid a bonus for how many people they got to stay in.

I know this because I was a Personnelman in the Navy from '82 until '02.

This is the National Guard which is basically the Army. I can only speak to what I saw of that branch. I was offered all kinds of money I didn't qualify for to reenlist. One of my friends who is still enlisted and a recruiter told me he gets bonuses just for being a recruiter not to mention the money he gets for getting people to reenlist or enlist.

Doesn't work that way in the Navy. If a recruiter for initial enlistments meets or exceeds their goal for the month (usually 2 people/month, depending on the district), they are given a wreath to put around their recruiter badge for the first award, and a star for each wreath earned after that. If a recruiter fails to meet their goal, and does so for 3 months, then they are re-evaluated and either given another shot at recruiting or sent back to the fleet. No money bonuses are given to recruiters for getting people to enlist.

When you get out to the fleet? Then the job of getting you to reenlist falls to the Command Career Counselor, who will assist you with negotiation of orders to your next duty station, as well as will inform you of what bonuses or programs you are eligible to reenlist for. Many of the CC's work in the admin office, because that is where most of the reference manuals are. And no, a CC does NOT receive any kind of monetary bonuses for keeping the command's retention level high. At the most? If they do really good, they might be awarded a Navy Achievement Medal (NAM) for their efforts. If they do really crappy and can't get anyone to reenlist? They are relieved of their duties and someone else who wants the job steps in. As a CC, at the time I was in they came from one of two places..............either (a) they went to school and converted to the CC rating, or (b) they volunteered for it and earned an NEC (Navy Enlisted Classification Code) designating them as such.

But...............I guess the Army and National Guard do things a lot different. Sounds like they aren't as ethical either.

Spent 20 years in the Navy as a Personnelman, and the last 2 1/2 years, I was working as the LPO and Head Classifier at Amarillo MEPS from 1999 until mid 2002.

I read up on it more and it seems like its possible some of the people had no idea they were not eligible or at least they could deny they had no idea.

 

[Asclepias]

why shouldn't they? why are people in favor of fraud?

Who committed the fraud? The soldiers? Or the state of California?

soldiers

How?

how? they put in for bonuses they weren't eligible for.

How would the soldiers know they were not eligible?

Because you are shown what you need to be eligible. At least i was..

 

[Asclepias]

Of all the people to fuck . . .

Disgusting!

I'm not sure anyone is getting screwed here.

seems like they didn't deserve the bonuses to begin with but someone at the state level was pushing them through fraudulently - screwing over everyone else

then you dont blame the troops,they did this in good faith....

i don't blame them, but they don't deserve to keep the cash

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

 

[longknife]

Congress Knew for 2 Years About Efforts to Take Back Veteran Bonuses

I saw one of the Friends on Fox&Friends bring this up to House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy who almost blew up denying it. Well, there is this:

Mueller said the California Guard had previously "recommended that Congress speed up this Army process" and had sent draft legislation to do so to each California congressional office in 2014. In the interview, he said Congress had not acted at the time because of the cost.

But Congress did nothing because of the cost.

And this extends beyond California!!!

More @ Congress Knew for 2 Years About Efforts to Take Back Veteran Bonuses | Military.com

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

I'm not sure anyone is getting screwed here.

seems like they didn't deserve the bonuses to begin with but someone at the state level was pushing them through fraudulently - screwing over everyone else

then you dont blame the troops,they did this in good faith....

i don't blame them, but they don't deserve to keep the cash

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

 

[ogibillm]

then you dont blame the troops,they did this in good faith....

i don't blame them, but they don't deserve to keep the cash

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

At least one person went to jail over this. It was fraud. Why should the army pay for fraud?

 

[Asclepias]

then you dont blame the troops,they did this in good faith....

i don't blame them, but they don't deserve to keep the cash

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

No dummy. I'm using reality to show you that there is a reason we have MP's and a UCMJ in the service. Not everyone is Captain America.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

i don't blame them, but they don't deserve to keep the cash

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

No dummy. I'm using reality to show you that there is a reason we have MP's and a UCMJ in the service. Not everyone is Captain America.

They're all Captain America compared to you. They committed to something greater than themselves. WTF have you ever sacrificed in your bubble wrap life?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

i don't blame them, but they don't deserve to keep the cash

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

At least one person went to jail over this. It was fraud. Why should the army pay for fraud?

Why should anyone enlist based on a bonus promised if the government is going to find a technicality later to take it back. You still haven't proven they actually intended a fraud meaning you're just slandering our soldiers for no other reason than you're a piece of shit.

The world is a better place every time one of you shit eaters dies.

 

[Asclepias]

They absolutely do deserve to keep the money. No other contract restricts the lives of the participant as these do, and if these soldiers agreed to those restrictions based on fraud, let those who committed the fraud to pay or go to prison.

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

No dummy. I'm using reality to show you that there is a reason we have MP's and a UCMJ in the service. Not everyone is Captain America.

They're all Captain America compared to you. They committed to something greater than themselves. WTF have you ever sacrificed in your bubble wrap life?

What does me sacrificing anything have to do with the fact that the vast majority of people in the military are just ordinary humans?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

We already have Leftists on this thread accusing combat veterans of committing fraud. Yes, dodging enemy fire and committing felonies at home.

Aren't Leftists just wonderful? Doesn't it make you want to invite a few over for Thanksgiving dinner?

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

No dummy. I'm using reality to show you that there is a reason we have MP's and a UCMJ in the service. Not everyone is Captain America.

They're all Captain America compared to you. They committed to something greater than themselves. WTF have you ever sacrificed in your bubble wrap life?

What does me sacrificing anything have to do with the fact that the vast majority of people in the military are just ordinary humans?

Ordinary people who make an extraordinary commitment. Like I did. Not everyone can serve, but decent Americans still appreciate those who did.

 

[Asclepias]

I know combat veterans that are petty thieves. How does a person get so brainwashed that they think because someone puts on a uniform they become Captain America?

You're using isolated examples of service members shoplifting to justify the outlandish claim that several guardsmen are committing an act of grand larceny, an allegation that even Democrats aren't stupid enough to make.

No dummy. I'm using reality to show you that there is a reason we have MP's and a UCMJ in the service. Not everyone is Captain America.

They're all Captain America compared to you. They committed to something greater than themselves. WTF have you ever sacrificed in your bubble wrap life?

What does me sacrificing anything have to do with the fact that the vast majority of people in the military are just ordinary humans?

Ordinary people who make an extraordinary commitment. Like I did. Not everyone can serve, but decent Americans still appreciate those who did.

Youre very ordinary but you didnt answer my question. What does me sacrificing anything have to do with the fact that the vast majority of people in the military are just ordinary humans?

 

[Lastamender]

I heard only the black soldiers have to pay the money back.

 

[Asclepias]

I heard only the black soldiers have to pay the money back.

If that were true they wouldnt have made headlines. It was some white people whining about it.

 

[Lastamender]

I heard only the black soldiers have to pay the money back.

If that were true they wouldnt have made headlines. It was some white people whining about it.

It was a racist joke. You should appreciate it, you are one yourself.

 

[Asclepias]

I heard only the black soldiers have to pay the money back.

If that were true they wouldnt have made headlines. It was some white people whining about it.

It was a racist joke. You should appreciate it, you are one yourself.

Yes my reply was a racist joke. You must be a racist in order to have noticed it.