Victory over Sharia in Oklahoma

[Book of Jeremiah]

The news is they are keeping Sharia law out of their courtroom. They are upholding their earlier decision that sharia law should not be permitted in american courtrooms. You are proving Sunni is mistaken. Not me.

 

[Sunni Man]

Since then........

By ASSOCIATED PRESS | 1/11/12

OKLAHOMA CITY — A federal appeals court has upheld a stay on an Oklahoma constitutional amendment that would ban state courts from considering international or Islamic law.

Sharia Law: Oklahoma ban on Islamic law unconstitutional - Associated Press - POLITICO.com

Thrown out. The law has been passed in Oklahoma so get over yourself, Sunni.

Do you know what upheld a stay means? In this case, the lower court had "stayed" the implementation of the new law, which means the state is prevented from enforcing it. When the appeals court upheld that stay, they let that prevention stand.

You are only confusing him with facts.......

 

[Oldguy]

The news is they are keeping Sharia law out of their courtroom. They are upholding their earlier decision that sharia law should not be permitted in american courtrooms. You are proving Sunni is mistaken. Not me.

No. The original anti-Sharia law was passed by the Oklahoma legislature in 2010 as a ballot measure called the Save Our State Act for the voters to decide in a referendum. Voters approved it overwhelmingly. A Muslim citizen filed suit in the Federal District Court and that court issued an injunction delaying certification of the election results until the issue could be argued in court.

Oklahoma appealed that decision to the 10th US Circuit Court and that court ruled in favor of the District court's decision because the state offered no compelling evidence to persuade the court that it (a) sought to address a real problem (no court decisions had ever used Sharia for a decision) and, (b) that there was enough of a threat to curtail the plaintiff's 1st Amendment rights.

So far, the state has not appealed the 10th Circuit's ruling and the election results remain uncertified and, therefore, unenforceable. The Save Our State Act is NOT a functioning part of Oklahoma law at this time.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Read the first post. You are the one confused. This is American Law for American Courtrooms. If I'm not mistaken this has been approved by 4 states so far and others are rushing to push it through. There were some incidents of Sharia law being used in the southeastern US and this is when American Law for American Courtrooms was brought to the floor.

 

[there4eyeM]

So "separation of church and state" doesn't apply to Sharia?

Sharia is dependent upon mosque and state to enforce its laws. In american courtrooms, Sharia law is unconstitutional. Of course. But thanks to the liberals we will have to go through ALAC to enforce our own laws now.

This shouldn't be a problem. Such a troglodytic form of 'law' will never gain ground in a modern country, and certainly not in the face of the US constitution. Anyone who thinks it could is less than unintelligent.

As for separation of religion from the state, it would certainly apply here, in prohibiting the establishment of the precepts of a sect as law for all. Religious practices are controlled by law (bigamy, female 'circumcision', cruelty to animals, etc.) when they are clearly beyond social norms and humanity.

And, speaking of less than unintelligent, arrives the little 'negger', Silly'man'.

 

[konradv]

Read the first post. You are the one confused. This is American Law for American Courtrooms. If I'm not mistaken this has been approved by 4 states so far and others are rushing to push it through. There were some incidents of Sharia law being used in the southeastern US and this is when American Law for American Courtrooms was brought to the floor.

Could you give us some cites where Sharia Law has been applied in American courtrooms? This sounds like hysteria in need of an instance. If there were "incidents", you should be citing them or your argument makes no sense.

 

[Oldguy]

Here's the text of the new law as it was signed by the Governor on Monday:

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14 ENR/hB/HB1060 ENR.PDF


This new law probably will pass Constitutional muster because it's perfectly meaningless. It literally does NOTHING to protect the citizens of Oklahoma from using foreign laws as a basis for a court ruling which does not already exist. It looks good, it feels good, but it does nothing new.

Here's why:

B. Any court, arbitration, tribunal, or administrative agency
ruling or decision shall violate the public policy of this state and
be void and unenforceable if the court, arbitration, tribunal, or
administrative agency bases its rulings or decisions in the matter
at issue in whole or in part on foreign law that would not grant the
parties affected by the ruling or decision the same fundamental
liberties, rights, and privileges granted under the United States
and Oklahoma Constitutions

That's already the case. Since our federal system of jurisprudence, and the system in Oklahoma as well, is based upon Common Law, whenever a US statute does not specifically address the issue at hand, the courts have referred to older, foreign rulings as a basis for making a decision. A good case in point is the US Supreme Court prohibition on executing minors. No US law or precedent addressed that specifically, so they ruled based upon what other countries do in that regard. It's perfectly legal and had been done before. HOWEVER, it did not conflict with our Constitutional protections and, in fact, cannot conflict with them. That's a long established legal principle which this new Oklahoma law merely supports. It breaks no new ground here.

Next:

G. This section shall not be interpreted by any court to
conflict with any federal treaty including, but not limited to, any
treaty with any federally recognized American Indian tribe or
nation, or other international agreement to which the United States
is a party to the extent that such treaty or international agreement
preempts or is superior to state law on the matter at issue.

Ratified international treaties already have the force of law (Art. VI; US Constitution) so, again, this new law doesn't say anything new.

The provisions of the new law regarding contractual obligations is also already protected.


This isn't anything other than the worst kind of Republican grandstanding to con the uninformed base into believing they've actually "done something" to address a nonexistent problem.

 

[bodecea]

AMERICAN LAWS FOR AMERICAN COURTS LEGISLATION WINS MAJOR BIPARTISAN VICTORY IN OKLAHOMA


Apr 12, 2013 · ... was approved by the Oklahoma House of Representatives by a 85-7 vote ... it singled out Sharia law,” said Kern, R-Oklahoma ... by a margin of 70 ...
Ban on Application of Foreign Law Sent to Governor - News - The ...
Ban on Application of Foreign Law Sent to Governor - News - The Daily Ardmoreite... was approved by the Oklahoma House of Representatives by a 85-7 vote on ... because it singled out Sharia law,” said Kern, R-Oklahoma ... by a margin of 70 ...
Oklahoma House of Representatives - Latest Media News Story …
Oklahoma House of Representatives - Latest Media News Story (Esc to Close)... was approved by the Oklahoma House of Representatives by a 85-7 vote on ... because it singled out Sharia law,” said Kern, R-Oklahoma ... by a margin of 70 ...
OK Group encourages Gov. Fallin to sign legislation banning ...








Oklahoma City, OK April 19, 2013—The American Laws for American Courts legislation to protect the fundamental constitutional rights of all Oklahoma residents against foreign legal doctrines, such as Shariah, was signed into law today by Governor Mary Fallin.



This unequivocal victory for Oklahoma and US law is the latest vindication of a long-term national trend supporting constitutional protections for ALL Americans against foreign laws and foreign legal doctrines, such as Shariah, that have found their way into our court systems.



Center for Security Policy President and Chief Executive Officer Frank Gaffney applauded the passage into law of this important legislation:



“Oklahoma has played an important role in protecting America’s justice system from the incursion of foreign laws and foreign legal doctrines, such as Shariah. American Laws for American Courts is the primary 21st Century civil rights initiative to ensure constitutional liberties for all Americans. It is needed especially to protect women and children, who have been identified by international human rights organizations as the primary victims of discriminatory foreign laws, Shariah in particular.”



The bill won a decisive bipartisan victory in both houses of the Oklahoma legislature. It was approved in the House of Representatives by an 85-7 margin and in the Senate by a 40-3 margin.



The legislation, sponsored by State Representative Sally Rogers Kern in the House and State Senator Gary Stanislawski in the Senate, is based closely on the American Laws for American Courts model promoted by the American Public Policy Alliance (APPA), which had previously won similar bipartisan approvals in Tennessee, Louisiana, Arizona and Kansas.



Representative Sally Kern stated:



"Today the will of the vast majority of the citizens of Oklahoman was acknowledged when HB1060, American Law for American Courts, was signed by Gov Fallin. Three years ago 71% of the voters approved State Question 755 prohibiting the use of Sharia Law in Oklahoma. That SQ was declared unconstitutional because it named a particular group. I have worked for three years to get ALAC passed so that the citizens of Oklahoma will be protected by the fundamental rights and liberties that our US Constitutional upholds without the fear of any foreign law being used against them."



A host of community and interfaith organizations came together to support the effort to pass this important legislation in Oklahoma, which culminated in the signing on Thursday.



A copy of the bills can be read here: http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2013-14 ENR/hB/HB1060 ENR.PDF

So...no christian or jewish based laws either in Oklahoma. Right?

 

[bodecea]

Read the first post. You are the one confused. This is American Law for American Courtrooms. If I'm not mistaken this has been approved by 4 states so far and others are rushing to push it through. There were some incidents of Sharia law being used in the southeastern US and this is when American Law for American Courtrooms was brought to the floor.

Fine. Make sure no christian or jewish law in American Courtrooms either.

 

[Oldguy]

Here's an interesting thought which just occurred to me:

B. Any court, arbitration, tribunal, or administrative agency
ruling or decision shall violate the public policy of this state and
be void and unenforceable if the court, arbitration, tribunal, or
administrative agency bases its rulings or decisions in the matter
at issue in whole or in part on foreign law


Did they just leave the door open for a DOMESTICALLY created version of Sharia law? CAN they prove that Sharia is, in fact, a foreign law as it applies to American adherents of Islam?

In their haste to feed the Islamophobia of their base, they may have just shot themselves in the foot.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Thrown out. The law has been passed in Oklahoma so get over yourself, Sunni.

Do you know what upheld a stay means? In this case, the lower court had "stayed" the implementation of the new law, which means the state is prevented from enforcing it. When the appeals court upheld that stay, they let that prevention stand.

You are only confusing him with facts.......

The facts? You claimed on this very board that sharia law complimented the constitution of united states. In fact, it does not. Read the following report:

Makhttp://counterjihadreport.com/2013/04/11/a-guide-to-shariah-law-vs-the-constitution/



A Guide to Shariah Law vs. the Constitution


In 2011, the Center for Security Policy assembled a 2 page flyer that succinctly explains the differences between the rights guaranteed in the US Constitution and Shariah.



"A Guide to Shariah Law vs. the Constitution" is available as a downloadable PDF file. The text is provided below.



ARTICLE VI : THE CONSTITUTION IS THE SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND

CONSTITUTION: ARTICLE VI: "This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby."

SHARIAH: "The source of legal rulings for all acts of those who are morally responsible is Allah." a1.1, Umdat al Salik (in English: ) The Reliance of the Traveller, the commonly accepted work of [desk reference/handbook of] Shariah jurisprudence); "There is only one law which ought to be followed, and that is the Sharia,"-Seyed Qutb [father of modern Muslim Brotherhood]; "Islam wishes to destroy all states and governments anywhere on the face of the earth which are opposed to the ideology and program of Islam regardless of the country or the nation which rules it. The purpose of Islam is to set up a State on the basis of its own ideology and program." -Seyed Abul A'ala Maududi (revived Deobandi School of thought, similar to Muslim Brotherhood, and founder of Jamaat-e-Islami, aka, the Pakistani Islamic Group, which is MOA, the Homegrown Jihad camps in the U.S.)



FIRST AMENDMENT : FREEDOM OF RELIGION

CONSTITUTION: FIRST AMENDMENT: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

SHARIAH: "Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take hold of them and kill them wherever you find them." Qur'an 4:89. [The Qur'an is the uncreated word of the Islamic god, Allah.] "Whoever changed his [Islamic] religion, then kill him,"-Hadith [something Muhammad said] of Sahih [authority on things Muhammad said] Al-Bukhari, 9:84:57. In historic and modern Shariah states, Shariah law enforces dhimmi status (second-class citizen, apartheid-type laws) on non-Muslims, prohibiting them from observing their religious practices publicly, building or repairing churches, raising their voices during prayer or ringing church bells; if dhimmi laws are violated in the Shariah State, penalties are those used for prisoners of war: death, slavery, release or ransom. o9.14, o11.0-*o11.11, Umdat Al-Salik



FIRST AMENDMENT : FREEDOM OF SPEECH

CONSTITUTION: FIRST AMENDMENT: Congress shall not abridge "the freedom of speech."
SHARIAH: Speech defaming Islam or Muhammad is considered "blasphemy" and is punishable by death or imprisonment.



FIRST AMENDMENT : FREEDOM TO DISSENT

CONSTITUTION: FIRST AMENDMENT: "Congress cannot take away the right of the people to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

SHARIAH: Non-Muslims are not to harbor any hostility toward the Islamic state or give comfort to those who disagree with Islamic government.



SECOND AMENDMENT : RIGHT TO SELF-*DEFENSE

CONSTITUTION: SECOND AMENDMENT: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

SHARIAH: Under historic and modern dhimmi laws, non-Muslims cannot possess swords, firearms, or weapons of any kind.



FIFTH, SIXTH & SEVENTH AMENDMENTS : RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS AND FAIR TRIAL

CONSTITUTION: FIFTH AMENDMENT: "no person shall be held to answer for a capital or other- wise infamous crime... without due process of law." SIXTH AMENDMENT: guarantees a "public trial by an impartial jury." SEVENTH AMENDMENT: "the right of trial by jury shall be preserved."

SHARIAH: "Muhammad said, 'No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel).'" Hadith of Sahih Al-*Bukhari Non-Muslims are prohibited from testifying against Muslims. A woman's testimony is equal to half of a man's.



EIGHTH AMENDMENT : NO CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT

CONSTITUTION: EIGHTH AMENDMENT: "nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

SHARIAH: Under Shariah, punishments are barbaric: "Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done - a deterrent from Allah." QURAN 5:38 A raped woman is punished: "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication - flog each of them with a hundred stripes" SURA 24:2



FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT : RIGHT TO EQUAL PROTECTION AND DUE PROCESS

CONSTITUTION: FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT: "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Shariah: Under dhimmi laws enforced in modern Shariah states, Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims before the law. Under Shariah law, women, girls, apostates [those who leave Islam], homosexuals, and "blasphemers" [anyone (not necessarily just Muslims) who says anything against Islam] are all denied equality under the law.

 

[Coyote]

All hail the anti-Sharia law! We won't have no damn shari in our courtrooms!


Wait.



Did we ever?



Ah. I see. It's just another discrimminatory law for another non-existant problem designed to placate fearful bigots and remind outsiders that freedom of religion is just for the Judeo-
christians

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

yes, there have already been cases of sharia in american courtrooms. CAIR is fighting to continue that movement and ALAC is stopping them dead in their tracks. It is a very serious matter and it is important to see ALAC through to all 50 states. IMO.

 

[konradv]

All hail the anti-Sharia law! We won't have no damn shari in our courtrooms!

Wait.

Did we ever?

Ah. I see. It's just another discrimminatory law for another non-existant problem designed to placate fearful bigots and remind outsiders that freedom of religion is just for the Judeo-
christians

Reminds me of those who were worried because companies were asking for Facebook passwords during job interviews! Oh wait..., that was real.

 

[ogibillm]

what real effects do the authors or supporters of this legislation expect it to have?

 

[ogibillm]

yes, there have already been cases of sharia in american courtrooms. CAIR is fighting to continue that movement and ALAC is stopping them dead in their tracks. It is a very serious matter and it is important to see ALAC through to all 50 states. IMO.

cite one.

 

[Oldguy]

what real effects do the authors or supporters of this legislation expect it to have?

Here's the real effect they were aiming at:

Election 2016:

GOP candidate: "We protected you from creeping Islam and kept Sharia out of our courts!"

Voter: "Aw right, by God! You got MAH vote!"

 

[Oldguy]

yes, there have already been cases of sharia in american courtrooms. CAIR is fighting to continue that movement and ALAC is stopping them dead in their tracks. It is a very serious matter and it is important to see ALAC through to all 50 states. IMO.

Cite some examples, please.

 

[ogibillm]

what real effects do the authors or supporters of this legislation expect it to have?

Here's the real effect they were aiming at:

Election 2016:

GOP candidate: "We protected you from creeping Islam and kept Sharia out of our courts!"

Voter: "Aw right, by God! You got MAH vote!"

exactly.

in related news i have a magic rock that keeps me safe from lion attacks. i've had it all year and not a single lion has even approached me!

 

[Sunni Man]

Once again the sharia law boogeyman has people like Jeremiah shaking and peeing their pants with fear.