Vietnam War and question for the boomer generation

sooo you are a communist [socialist ] and just how did i surmise that i wonder ??

That is too complex for a simple response because you don't know what socialism or communism is.
You likely think they imply a strictly centralized form of government, and they don't.
 
Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope
When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.
Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.
Anyone doing anything to end it sooner should be praised.
listen to the communist [modern democrat] traitor defend a fellow traitor .

The Vietnamese have the legal right to choose their own government.
It was illegal for the US to try to interfere.

Nothing to do with political beliefs.
Pure case law.
The US was in violation.
bull ! you are a leftist ! are trying to say that you are a conservative patriot ?

Sure I am a far left, progressive, liberal, but that does not conflict at all with also being a conservative patriot.
Leftist means being for the common poor people instead of the wealthy elite.
Progressive means fixing the things missing from the constitution, like ending slavery, and recognizing all individual rights.
Liberal means believing inherent individual liberties are the only source of legal authority.
There is no contradiction between any of that and being a conservative patriot because everyone had to know there were things missing from the Bill of Rights.
If that is the case then we have an amendment process for the U.S. Constitution that has been used more than two dozen times. It isn't our place to simply decide what the U.S. Constitution is "supposed" to say.

In general that is true.
The SCOTUS has slowly been incorporating the Bill of Rights as individual rights.
But imagine how painful it is to have to have waited until 1975 for Civil Rights if you are Black?
I would be tempted to speed things up a little.

And some thing we do have to decide are constitutional or not.
Like Prohibition was not.
It was a nanny law not based on defense of individual rights, but an invasive intrusion on the desires of others.
I think the War on Drugs is similarly illegal, and in violation of the principles of the constitution.
So are assault weapons bans.
 
Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope
When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.
Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.

Wrong. The war in Vietnam was authorized by the U.S. Congress which made it completely legal.

And every war is winnable.
Not necessarily. Did you ever hear, "Never fight a land war in Asia"? It's a different type of war. If you think you have won, you will still have to keep an occupying force in place for generations to control what you never really controlled to begin with and will fight that war again and again if you wish to keep any semblance of order. They read the The Art of War and understood Sun Tzu Wu, perfectly.
 
The only reason the war was so protracted and is sometimes seen as a loss is because American leaders refused to let us win it.
Just like all the other wars since then your leaders have refused to let you win, eh?
 
After WWII, there were calls from around the world that imperialism should be put to rest and countries should all have their own representation. Viet Nam, with Ho Chi Min had begged the UN and United States to have his country be free of the French imperialism rule. But the French who were devastated by the war, didnt want to relinquish their rule of the gooks of Viet Nam, and the UN and Truman agreed with France. So Ho Chi, went to war with the French, and we all know how that ended....

Thank the French and Democrats for always getting US fucked....
We had a choice between a free Vietnam or a return to French Colonialism
We chose the French

Cost millions of lives
Free? You must be friggin kidding! Under oppressive Communist colonialism rather than as a republic? Those that weren't slaughtered out of hand or sent to "re-education" camps? You must be a mental health poster boy.
Lets see
The choice that killing millions of Vietnamese to keep them from becoming Communist?

How can that make sense?
How does allowing the Communists to massacre them make them more "free"?

That is silly because when the north took over in the south, there were no massacres.
The rural south of Vietnam had always been communist.
When you need the whole village to keep rice paddies going, then communism is what you are already doing.
 
he also talked about democrats [the party you voted for ] spitting on them and calling them baby killers when they returned home .

One of those lasting Vietnam myths that assumes our soldiers were meek enough to allow hippies to spit on them

Not a myth, asshole.
You think our soldiers are meek?

I think you are an asshole, that you ignore the evidence presented because it disproves your biased OPINION.

I don't think you have a clue as to what it took those men assaulted to keep walking, so they could continue their journeys, instead of being arrested, and either paying a fine, or being incarcerated.


I also think you should get on your hands and knees to thank those that did what you didn't have the nerve, or guts, to do.

are you starting to get an opinion of how low I think you are for attacking veterans?
According to the Urban Legend ......
Our trained killer soldiers came home and dirty, stinking, draft-dodging hippies spat on them and not a one struck back

You think a jury would convict a soldier who beat the snot out of a hippie for spitting on him?

You think a jury would convict a soldier who beat the snot out of a hippie for spitting on him?
You think soldier on his way home would want to take the chance of a conviction, or even a fine?

Delay his trip by even an hour while waiting for the cops?

are you seriously that STUPID?

If some hippie spat on him?
You bet your ass

Ask any Marine today how he would react to someone spitting on him

You take stupid to a new level.
I will accept that as a victory

You is STOOPID is a concession of defeat

Bud...

you can take it anyway you want.

You lost the first time you made the claim.

Links have been posted PROVING you are wrong, and your reaction is :lalala:.

Don't bother responding.


there is only so much stupidity I can handle in a day.

and you passed my limit for the month.

No other war had such organized resistance as Vietnam.
That VVAW, Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), was a huge percentage of the protestors against the war.

{...
The fluctuating membership size has had varied estimates. The organization remained small until late 1969 when it gained several hundred new members.[4] With the Nixon administration's decision to invade Cambodia and the Kent State shootings in 1970, VVAW's visibility increased, and they attracted new members, increasing from 1,500 to almost 5,000.[5]

Membership passed 8,500 by January 1971, and thousands more flocked to the organization after Playboy Magazine donated a full-page VVAW ad in its February edition.[6] The national televised coverage of VVAW's week-long April 1971 protest in Washington, D.C., and smaller protests in subsequent months brought attention.

A Federal Bureau of Investigation informant within the organization noted in March 1971 that membership had grown from 1,500 to over 12,000 in the past four months.[7] An article in Ramparts, that year said VVAW had at that time approximately 11,000 members and employed 26 regional coordinators.[2]

Higher estimates exist, including a claim of 20,000 members for 1971.[8] The organization has claimed a peak membership of over 30,000.[3] Counting non-veteran supporters, VVAW had "roughly 50,000" members.[9]

By 1972, negotiations at the Paris peace talks were in full swing, signaling the beginning of the end of the war, meaning the end of VVAW's primary mission. Membership in the organization declined, and the leadership began to consider broader purposes to support veterans. Membership requirements were relaxed, and political differences arose as new members fought with old about direction. By 1973 VVAW had several thousand members.[10] With internal struggles still threatening the group, 2,000 members demonstrated in Washington DC in July 1974, demanding universal amnesty for draft resisters and deserters, and universal discharge with benefits for all Vietnam veterans.[11]

Historian Andrew E. Hunt concluded, "Detractors have always cited numbers when criticizing VVAW. At the pinnacle of VVAW's success in 1972, membership rolls listed almost 25,000 card carriers, or fewer than 1 percent of all eligible Vietnam era veterans. ... By emphasizing the low percentage of Vietnam veterans who paid dues to VVAW, opponents have sought to dismiss the significance and impact of the organization."[12]
...}

What does that have to do with my post?

Depends on what your post meant?
I just wanted to point out that the "hippie spitting on returning veterans" is mostly false.
The returning veterans were some of the most anti war, and the hippies knew that in general.
How many troops did we have in Nam?

The organization has claimed a peak membership of over 30,000.

30,000 sounds like a drop in the bucket.

Highest under Johnson was about half a million troops.
But considering most were young and stupid, and they were not paid to join the VVAW, I think 30,000 shows extreme resistance.


I think 30,000 shows extreme resistance.

and estimated number, and likely included civilians.

Of course it was civilians. Veterans always are civilians. But VVAW has no one who was not a veteran.
Untrue. After Kerry and other members testified under oath before congress about alleged a "war crimes" they and their claims were officially investigated. Some were found to have never been in the military. Some who had been in the military had never been in Vietnam. Some who actually had been to Vietnam had never been in a combat unit or assigned combat duties. Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes.. None. Veterans or not they were simply a lying pack of scumbags looking for attention by defaming their betters. Pure theatrics.
 
No international agreement like the UN Charter is binding upon the United States unless it has enforcement provisions specifically passed by Congress that lays out consequences of a violation and enforcement provisions.
Interesting. So the supreme Law of the Land is not binding on the US. That explains a lot.

2: This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
 
Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes..
I'm curious. Was Calley charged/convicted of a war crime, or has the US ever confirmed the My Lai massacre to have been a war crime?
 
If you were part of we the people you would understand that we the people are the government and that any government failure is also your failure no matter how much you whine and complain. No "we" that I'm a part of has any room for anti-American Communist shills or traitors.
If 'they' are not part of 'we' the failure is not theirs.
 
Jane Fonda was right about her objection to the war
Millions died unnecessarily

Blame Bob Hope
When we have troops is the field, you don't go to the war zone to be photographed with the enemy supporting the enemy of your own troop, and making propaganda use of captured US troops unless you are a traitorous, spoiled bitch. She will always be Hanoi Jane.

YES YOU DO!!!!
The only way to save the lives of those US troops is to expose the Pentagon as the real enemy.
Anyone again Fonda was guilty of causing the murder not only of innocent Vietnamese, but of US GIs as well.
Ho Chi Minh was the hero of all Vietnam, for defeating the French and liberating the country.
Violating the peace accord between France and Vietnam by getting Diem to depose Bau Dai was one of the worst crimes in history.
Jane not only did the right thing, but she gained nothing by it and it was one of the most selfless acts of the century.
Why, Hello, Jane! You awful unpatriotic old whore.

Nope.
Jane was right and she will always be a hero because she not only told the truth, but knew it would cost her.
She never gained a thing from it, but save tens of thousands of lives.
The Vietnamese were never going to give up, so what do you think would have happened to all those US POWs if the war went on 5, 10, or 20 more years?

Face facts, the war in Vietnam was never legal or winnable.

Wrong. The war in Vietnam was authorized by the U.S. Congress which made it completely legal.

And every war is winnable.
Not necessarily. Did you ever hear, "Never fight a land war in Asia"? It's a different type of war. If you think you have won, you will still have to keep an occupying force in place for generations to control what you never really controlled to begin with and will fight that war again and again if you wish to keep any semblance of order. They read the The Art of War and understood Sun Tzu Wu, perfectly.

1) A common saying in no way makes something true.
2) What is he big deal about keeping occupying force in a place for generations? Many occupying forces have to stay a prolonged length of time.
3) Just because something appears in a a book by Sun Tzu doesn't make it true either.
 
Of the very few who had none, of their allegations were confirmed to have been war crimes..
I'm curious. Was Calley charged/convicted of a war crime, or has the US ever confirmed the My Lai massacre to have been a war crime?
Calley was convicted and sent to prison ( albeit for a short time). Actually Calley spent almost all of his three years incarcerated under house arrest. He benefited greatly from the common opinion that he was a scapegoat for U.S. military policy.
 
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After WWII, there were calls from around the world that imperialism should be put to rest and countries should all have their own representation. Viet Nam, with Ho Chi Min had begged the UN and United States to have his country be free of the French imperialism rule. But the French who were devastated by the war, didnt want to relinquish their rule of the gooks of Viet Nam, and the UN and Truman agreed with France. So Ho Chi, went to war with the French, and we all know how that ended....

Thank the French and Democrats for always getting US fucked....
We had a choice between a free Vietnam or a return to French Colonialism
We chose the French

Cost millions of lives
Free? You must be friggin kidding! Under oppressive Communist colonialism rather than as a republic? Those that weren't slaughtered out of hand or sent to "re-education" camps? You must be a mental health poster boy.
Lets see
The choice that killing millions of Vietnamese to keep them from becoming Communist?

How can that make sense?
How does allowing the Communists to massacre them make them more "free"?

That is silly because when the north took over in the south, there were no massacres.
The rural south of Vietnam had always been communist.
When you need the whole village to keep rice paddies going, then communism is what you are already doing.
Untrue. You just refuse to notice them. There was no shortage of atrocities while the war was ongoing Massacre at Huế List of massacres in Vietnam And only an idiot would suppose they suddenly became all warm and fuzzy once they took control. We have South Vietnamese communities here in the US. Ask them. What right do you have to speak for them? The boat people of the time were fleeing occupied South Vietnam; not fleeing to it.
 

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