Virginia women protest "state mandated rape"

[Luissa]

Pay attention, Val. The link does not work. I posted that.

To your first response, you're responding to something different than anything I said. Again, pay attention.

It's not difficult, but I'll go through it again. The mandate is the gestational age limit for an elective abortion. The most accurate method to determine that gestational age is the ultrasound.

No physician is going to risk losing his/her license by doing an elective abortion on a woman just by trusting HER account of how far along the pregnancy is. As such, the physician will do the test that most accurately determines gestational age on that women so that s/he will not risk losing his license.

Yeah, it's 'state mandated rape'.

Which is why they perform ultra sounds with most abortions, along with to make sure there isn't other complications. There doesn't need to be a state mandate.

Luissa, the Code in Virginia, before this bill, only provided for informed consent for elective abortions based on PROBABLE gestational age of the fetus. This Commonwealth wants to make sure that all elective abortions are definitely done only during the first trimester. I totally agree with that. I see no reason why a woman cannot make up her mind to have an abortion within twelve weeks, and like most Virginians, I want to make sure that any elective abortions are only during the first trimester.

After that, my opinion is that the abortion is more than disgusting. But, that's just my opinion. I am pro-choice for the first trimester.

Secondly, this bill ensures that no Virginia funds go toward elective abortions.

I am just saying most clinics perform ultra sounds, probably due to liability and safety.
If they are not, they probably shouldn't be performing abortions. I don't see the need for the mandate or any law requiring it. But if they don't force the girl to see it, which I could see never happening even with a mandate, it isn't a bad thing to require an ultra sound. It does ensure the abortion will be safer for the woman.

 

[Si modo]

Which is why they perform ultra sounds with most abortions, along with to make sure there isn't other complications. There doesn't need to be a state mandate.

Luissa, the Code in Virginia, before this bill, only provided for informed consent for elective abortions based on PROBABLE gestational age of the fetus. This Commonwealth wants to make sure that all elective abortions are definitely done only during the first trimester. I totally agree with that. I see no reason why a woman cannot make up her mind to have an abortion within twelve weeks, and like most Virginians, I want to make sure that any elective abortions are only during the first trimester.

After that, my opinion is that the abortion is more than disgusting. But, that's just my opinion. I am pro-choice for the first trimester.

Secondly, this bill ensures that no Virginia funds go toward elective abortions.

I am just saying most clinics perform ultra sounds, probably due to liability and safety.

....

Definitely! You and I are saying the same thing, there, for sure. Big liability.

....
If they are not, they probably shouldn't be performing abortions. I don't see the need for the mandate or any law requiring it. But if they don't force the girl to see it, which I could see never happening even with a mandate, it isn't a bad thing to require an ultra sound. It does ensure the abortion will be safer for the woman.

Totally agree.

Well, almost. I totally disagree with forcing a woman to look at it. It should be her call. She's in a tough enough spot as it is. And, luckily, this bill does not make the woman do that.

 

[Luissa]

My number one reason for them performing one is ectopic pregnancies and other related conditions. But any doctor should be performing an ultra sound for these reasons no matter if they are having an abortion or not. My friend recently had one, and didnt find out until she was four months along.

 

[Si modo]

My number one reason for them performing one is ectopic pregnancies and other related conditions. But any doctor should be performing an ultra sound for these reasons no matter if they are having an abortion or not. My friend recently had one, and didnt find out until she was four months along.

Yup. Any sober, sane, and competent physician will perform one anyway.

I hope your friend is OK. That far along for an ectopic is pretty dangerous, no?

 

[jillian]

RICHMOND, Va. — Hundreds of women have locked arms and stood mute outside the Virginia State Capitol to protest a wave of anti-abortion legislation coursing through the 2012 General Assembly.

Capitol and state police officers, there to ensure order, estimated the crowd to be more than 1,000 people — mostly women. The crowd formed a human cordon through which legislators walked before Monday’s floor sessions of the Republican-controlled legislature.

The group was protesting bills that would cut off state aid to poor women seeking abortions, define embryos as humans and criminalize their destruction, and require “transvaginal” ultrasounds of women seeking abortions. In the procedure, a wand-like device is inserted and used to send out sound waves.

None of the protesters carried posters. Few spoke, even when spoken to. Richmond resident Molly Vick wore a shirt that read, “Say no to state mandated rape.”

Women protest anti-abortion bills in Va. by locking arms, standing mute outside state Capitol - The Washington Post

I hope some rape victim gets in their faces and tells them what rape really is.

Says the moron that thinks getting a pat down at the airport is rape.

well, you know he always gets it butt backwards

 

[Valerie]

Pay attention, Val. The link does not work. I posted that.

The time Ravi posted it didn't work, but the two times I posted the link does work...

http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_RFU.pdf

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

I'm not about to read this whole thread, but has anyone pointed out that even if the law requires such ultrasounds that unless a woman is FORCED into the clinic/hospital whatever no rape will have occurred?

Well, I guess actually that's not true, if a woman is drunk and the procedure is performed I guess she could claim she didn't consent. But isn't that true of just a plain old abortion?

 

[Luissa]

My number one reason for them performing one is ectopic pregnancies and other related conditions. But any doctor should be performing an ultra sound for these reasons no matter if they are having an abortion or not. My friend recently had one, and didnt find out until she was four months along.

Yup. Any sober, sane, and competent physician will perform one anyway.

I hope your friend is OK. That far along for an ectopic is pretty dangerous, no?

She is fine now, it was hard then, had to have surgery.

Read this...Lithopedion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and don't ever watch a documentary about it when you are nine months pregnant, trust me.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

My number one reason for them performing one is ectopic pregnancies and other related conditions. But any doctor should be performing an ultra sound for these reasons no matter if they are having an abortion or not. My friend recently had one, and didnt find out until she was four months along.

Yup. Any sober, sane, and competent physician will perform one anyway.

I hope your friend is OK. That far along for an ectopic is pretty dangerous, no?

She is fine now, it was hard then, had to have surgery.

Read this...Lithopedion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and don't ever watch a documentary about it when you are nine months pregnant, trust me.

My much better plan is to never be 9 months pregnant.

 

[jillian]

They can still get an abortion. Of course a condom, the pill, or (gasp!) abstinence, all work far better with none of the guilt or self loathing.

for the women I know who've made that choice, for whatever reason, there is neither guilt nor self loathing.

i'd suggest you stop attributing your own loathing to them. i also suggest old white men stop imposting conditions on the exercise of women's rights that are intended to CREATE guilt and self-loathing. cause isn't that what we're really talking about. you want to humiliate women.

i'd also suggest that women don't need men to save them from their decisions, so perhaps y'all should stop trying to prevent women from making the decisions they are entitled to make by law.

I promise you that the intent is to save their children from their decisions, saving the women as well is just a natural by-product.

if you were concerned with the "children", you'd be demanding head start programs. you'd be demanding job training and day care. you'd set up networks of rightwing anti choice uber religious zealots to adopt them.

it's BS... your concern dies the second people are born.

and please don't "save" anyone until you "save" yourself.

 

[Si modo]

My number one reason for them performing one is ectopic pregnancies and other related conditions. But any doctor should be performing an ultra sound for these reasons no matter if they are having an abortion or not. My friend recently had one, and didnt find out until she was four months along.

Yup. Any sober, sane, and competent physician will perform one anyway.

I hope your friend is OK. That far along for an ectopic is pretty dangerous, no?

She is fine now, it was hard then, had to have surgery.

Read this...Lithopedion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and don't ever watch a documentary about it when you are nine months pregnant, trust me.

Seeing that reminded me of something I once saw on National Geographic ot The Discovery Channel (or something like that): There was this Indian or Pakistani woman who 'gave birth to her twin'. That's what they called it. Apparently, a rare event, she was a twin in her mother's womb, but she absorbed her twin before she was born. That thing kept growing in her. They had to do surgery and it had hair and shit.

Freaky. Sorta like a horror movie.

Yikes.

 

[Luissa]

Yup. Any sober, sane, and competent physician will perform one anyway.

I hope your friend is OK. That far along for an ectopic is pretty dangerous, no?

She is fine now, it was hard then, had to have surgery.

Read this...Lithopedion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and don't ever watch a documentary about it when you are nine months pregnant, trust me.

Seeing that reminded me of something I once saw on National Geographic ot The Discovery Channel (or something like that): There was this Indian or Pakistani woman who 'gave birth to her twin'. That's what they called it. Apparently, a rare event, she was a twin in her mother's womb, but she absorbed her twin before she was born. That thing kept growing in her. They had to do surgery and it had hair and shit.

Freaky. Sorta like a horror movie.

Yikes.

This lady on the documentary I watched carried a 7lb one for 40 years or something. It was in a third world country, and they said if she had stayed at the hospital, she would have probably died when they opened her up. No time to look for link.

 

[Mr.Nick]

I don't understand why ANYONE would be opposed to making a woman view an altrasound before she decides to put the child in the blender..

I don't know how anyone can be pro-life and pro-abuse at the same time.

Our pro-life movement can only be harmed by being assholes towards women. It sure as shit doesn't achieve anything positive. It doesn't save lives.

It is pretty disgusting the way the right wing blogosphere has reacted to these women's concerns. Jokes about aspirins between the knees, blowing off an incredibly invasive and unecessary procedure as nothing to get upset about, talking about women as whores.

Once the decision has been made to get an abortion, it is too late. Putting the woman through a humiliating experience out of a desire to get a little vengeance is just being an asshole.

Pro-lifers talk about women needing to be responsible BEFORE they get pregnant, and then block as many avenues to achieve that as possible. They put up roadblocks to birth control when half of all abortions are the result of no birth control being used. They put up roadblocks to proper sex education even though a majority of the other half of abortions are due to inconsistent use of birth control. You have some primitive ignorant abstinence-only shit as your goal. It's obvious.

You always bitch about women not keeping their legs crossed but I do not recall any pro-lifer EVER saying the male half of the equation needs to keep their zippers up when issues like this one come up.

Go back and look. Every pro-lifer in this topic has put all the onus on the women. Not one of you fuckers said anything about the males. It's been one big chain of abuse toward women.

11 pages of sheer assholery, and now you want to pile yet one more humiliation on top of the woman. It's like you get off on the idea of them being punished.

There's no morality here. Just a bunch of dicks.

It's immoral (and should be illegal) to kill an individual out of convenience.

One may as well say its a womans duty to define what a human life is.... If she wants the child its a human if she doesn't its a "tumor."

It's fucking illogical and pathetic....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

RICHMOND, Va. — Hundreds of women have locked arms and stood mute outside the Virginia State Capitol to protest a wave of anti-abortion legislation coursing through the 2012 General Assembly.

Capitol and state police officers, there to ensure order, estimated the crowd to be more than 1,000 people — mostly women. The crowd formed a human cordon through which legislators walked before Monday’s floor sessions of the Republican-controlled legislature.

The group was protesting bills that would cut off state aid to poor women seeking abortions, define embryos as humans and criminalize their destruction, and require “transvaginal” ultrasounds of women seeking abortions. In the procedure, a wand-like device is inserted and used to send out sound waves.

None of the protesters carried posters. Few spoke, even when spoken to. Richmond resident Molly Vick wore a shirt that read, “Say no to state mandated rape.”

Women protest anti-abortion bills in Va. by locking arms, standing mute outside state Capitol - The Washington Post

I hope some rape victim gets in their faces and tells them what rape really is.

Says the moron that thinks getting a pat down at the airport is rape.

I think any contact with another persons genitals without it being a mutually consensual procedure should be treated as sexual abuse or assault, not rape. It isn't my fault that idiots like you think a normal medical procedure that is consensual is rape, and also think someone groping another person without their consent is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What's wrong with getting a visual on what's growing inside so you can make a more informed decision? The more you know and all.

I realize this is a subject that you guys have a hard time understanding; but it's really very simple. When a woman chooses to get an abortion; that is her choice. Under this law, a woman seeking an abortion will have no choice but to let a doctor stick a probe up her vagina. It's about the freedom to choose; to not have the gov't mandate what you can do with your own body.

wrong. Look in the thread for the linked HR bill. No specification of the type of ultrasound is made. You're either stupid, or a liar. Which is it?

I vote both.

 

[rightwinger]

I realize this is a subject that you guys have a hard time understanding; but it's really very simple. When a woman chooses to get an abortion; that is her choice. Under this law, a woman seeking an abortion will have no choice but to let a doctor stick a probe up her vagina. It's about the freedom to choose; to not have the gov't mandate what you can do with your own body.

wrong. Look in the thread for the linked HR bill. No specification of the type of ultrasound is made. You're either stupid, or a liar. Which is it?

I vote both.

For an ultrasound for someone under 12 weeks pregnant the probe on the belly is ineffective. It must be done vaginally

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I realize this is a subject that you guys have a hard time understanding; but it's really very simple. When a woman chooses to get an abortion; that is her choice. Under this law, a woman seeking an abortion will have no choice but to let a doctor stick a probe up her vagina. It's about the freedom to choose; to not have the gov't mandate what you can do with your own body.

Knowledge is a powerful thing. How is having more knowledge about what's inside of a woman prior to making the decision to have an abortion bad? Dems are always saying that Reps want to cut education . . well here they are promoting education so what is your objection to, exactly? It can't possibly be the whole 'mandate' thing as you're whining about because gov't is mandating that we purchase health insurance for our bodies and you're ok with that.

You didn't even come close to answering my question.

What a crock of shit. So now forcing women to take a probe up their vagina is education?

As far as the mandate goes, you can't possibly believe that the insurance mandate is even remotely close to the probe mandate

The insurance mandate is a tool used to get more people into the market; therefore, driving down insurance costs. Ask Romney about it; it has worked pretty well in MA. What benefit comes from forcing women to take probes up their vagina? Other than your desire to stop abortions - which is still a legal medical procedure; or your desire to make then feel guilty - which is no basis for a law.

I did answer your question. You asked what is wrong with getting a visual on what's in a woman's stomach. It depends on how you frame the question. What is wrong with a woman choosing to get an ultrasound? Nothing. What is wrong with a woman being forced by law to get an ultrasound? The key word there is 'forced'. If you can't wrap your head around that, then you are beyond my help.

Any conservative who supports this has lost all credibility when it comes to concern over gov't intrusion in their lives.

The way I see it any liberal who opposes it has lost all credibility when it comes to the government mandating health care coverage of any type, but I do appreciate your attempt to balem the other side for what yo do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I must say that I do find it amusing that "small government" conservatives are trying to legislatively mandate that a woman have a 2 foot plastic rod shoved up her twat before she can get a LEGAL medical procedure performed.

I would find it amusing myself, if I could find any small government conservatives who were doing it.

 

[Unknown_Soldier]

for the women I know who've made that choice, for whatever reason, there is neither guilt nor self loathing.

i'd suggest you stop attributing your own loathing to them. i also suggest old white men stop imposting conditions on the exercise of women's rights that are intended to CREATE guilt and self-loathing. cause isn't that what we're really talking about. you want to humiliate women.

i'd also suggest that women don't need men to save them from their decisions, so perhaps y'all should stop trying to prevent women from making the decisions they are entitled to make by law.

I promise you that the intent is to save their children from their decisions, saving the women as well is just a natural by-product.

if you were concerned with the "children", you'd be demanding head start programs. you'd be demanding job training and day care. you'd set up networks of rightwing anti choice uber religious zealots to adopt them.

it's BS... your concern dies the second people are born.

and please don't "save" anyone until you "save" yourself.

Are you aware that there ARE head start programs, there ARE job training programs, and there ARE day cares?

YOU acting as if women have abortions because those helps aren't available is laughable.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Such liars the press are.

And such suckers so many of the readers are.

And, the women protesting this are idiots and sellouts.

"Except in the case of a medical emergency, at least 24 hours before the performance of an
abortion a qualified medical professional trained in sonography and working under the direct
supervision of a physician licensed in the Commonwealth shall perform fetal ultrasound imaging and
auscultation of fetal heart tone services on the patient undergoing the abortion for the purpose of
determining gestational age."

What horror!

Determining gestational age has nothing to do with it. Laying on additional guilt in the hopes of chasing her away is the sole purpose of the bill

Finally, an honest point in opposition to the bill. Nice to see you didn't jump on the rape bandwagon.