Want gun control? Fight smart.

[TNHarley]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

The law that says a person can't buy a hand gun until they are 21, should have included semi automatics like the AR15.

18 year olds love to hunt. I am sure they appreciate you stripping their freedoms for being COMPLETELY innocent.
Even if, he would have just used something else. So, what kind of law would have stopped him from shooting up that school?

Well a 18 year old can go to war and risk his life so I agree with you there..but a 18 year old who's brain isn't developed yet ( the part where we weigh in consequence) is not developed yet..

Why does he need an assault rifle at 18 ?

.

Who are you to decide what someone else needs?

 

[ricechickie]

The law that says a person can't buy a hand gun until they are 21, should have included semi automatics like the AR15.

18 year olds love to hunt. I am sure they appreciate you stripping their freedoms for being COMPLETELY innocent.
Even if, he would have just used something else. So, what kind of law would have stopped him from shooting up that school?

AR 15 s Are not hunting long guns.

They are rifles. Maybe what you should have said was "ban the ar15"
He would have just used another gun. SO, what law would have stopped him from shooting up the school?

What law prevents you from beating up someone?

No law prevents that. Im not in to hurting people.

Exactly.

We need a culture shift so that this kid

a. wasn’t in to hurting people in the first place
b. was recognized as someone who wanted to hurt people, and given psychiatric help
c. was deprived of the tools to hurt the most people in the least amount of time

 

[Marion Morrison]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Laws like they used to have here (as well as where the shooter was) to where after so many trips out to his home, the cops would have called in the men in the white coats and ol' boy would have already been in Chattahoochee and pumped full of Thorazine.

True story, baby.

Three levels of government failed with that guy. Local LEO, state DCF, and FBI.

If the government fails to protect you, the logical conclusion is to arm yourself and loved ones.

I see it as a call for more citizens to be armed, and a reduction in law-enforcement funding until they get their act together.

Paid government not doing their jobs, well, they need to be fired.

 

[Eaglewings]

I was going to compose a letter to these young whippersnappers today, telling them that they are the voice of hope, but only if they refrain from the usual screeching and name calling and hyperbolic empty rhetoric that passes for political "debate" these days. I didn't have to write it--David Brooks already did.
I wanted to share it with all of you, and hope/wish you will all read it and think about it.

DAVID BROOKS

Respect First, Then Gun Control
Image

Students and family members gathered at a makeshift memorial for the victims of last week’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla.CreditMark Wilson/Getty Images North America
Image

By David Brooks

Feb. 19, 2018
This has been an emotional week. We greet tragedies like the school shooting in Florida with shock, sadness, mourning and grief that turns into indignation and rage. The anger inevitably gets directed at the N.R.A., those who support gun rights, and the politicians who refuse to do anything while children die.

Many of us walked this emotional path. But we may end up doing more harm than good. If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it is that guns have become a cultural flash point in a nation that is unequal and divided. The people who defend gun rights believe that snobbish elites look down on their morals and want to destroy their culture. If we end up telling such people that they and their guns are despicable, they will just despise us back and dig in their heels.

So if you want to stop school shootings it’s not enough just to vent and march. It’s necessary to let people from Red America lead the way, and to show respect to gun owners at all points. There has to be trust and respect first. Then we can strike a compromise on guns as guns, and not some sacred cross in the culture war.

So I’ve been thinking about a group that’s in the trust and respect business. Better Angels is a nonprofit led by David Lapp, David Blankenhorn and a prominent family therapist, Bill Doherty. The team members travel from town to town finding members of the Red and Blue Tribes and bringing them together for long, humbling conversations.

My Times colleague April Lawson has gotten involved with Better Angels and has been reporting back on its techniques.

One of the most successful parts of the structured conversations is built around stereotypes. Doherty, the head moderator, asks the people at each gathering to name five major stereotypes that the other side throws at them. The Republicans invariably list “racist” first, followed by, say, “uncaring,” “uneducated,” “misogynistic” and “science deniers.”


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In a session Lawson attended, a Trump supporter acknowledged that the G.O.P. has had a spotty record on racial matters, but it’s important to him that Blues know that’s not why he holds his opinions.

Doherty says that the Reds feel shamed by the Blues to a much greater degree than the Blues realize. Reds are very reluctant to enter into a conversation with Blues, for fear of further shaming, but they often come to the table when they are told that this will be a chance to “de-monsterize” themselves.

At that session one Blue said she was really grateful to hear a Red acknowledge the Republican history on race. When Blues are asked about the stereotypes thrown at them, they tend to list “against religion and morality,” “unpatriotic” and “against personal responsibility” among their responses. They, too, relish the chance to clear the air.

After the stereotypes are discussed, the room feels different. As one Red in Ohio told Lawson, “I think we are all pretty clear on one thing: Don’t tell us who we are and what we think.” Another Red was moved almost to tears by the damage categories do. “We’re not just cookie-cutter people; we’re individuals. Just because you don’t like something, you don’t have to ridicule it — you probably don’t understand it,” she said. “When someone’s heart is full up with something, and then you demean it without even listening to them — I hate that.”

The discussions reveal other sensitivities. Some Blues didn’t want to enter a venue that had a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag on the wall. To Reds that was a neutral flag from American history, but to Blues it carried all sorts of nasty associations. Reds were offended by the lawn signs that said, “Hate Has No Home Here.” The implication: Hate has no home in my house, but it does in yours.

In another exercise, Reds and Blues ask each other honest, nonleading questions. Blues may ask Reds, “Name a safety-net program you can support.” Reds may ask Blues, “How do you balance having a heart with keeping health care costs under control?”

By the end of the conversations, the atmosphere has changed. Nearly always somebody will say that the discussion was easy because only moderates were in the room, not the people who post crazy stuff on Facebook. The staff tries not to smile, knowing that some of the people were selected precisely because of the intense stuff they posted on Facebook.

“This is not a civility organization,” Blankenhorn told Lawson. Better Angels is aiming to build a group of people whose personal bonds with their fellow citizens redefine how they engage in the political system.

We don’t really have policy debates anymore. We have one big tribal conflict, and policy fights are just proxy battles as each side tries to establish moral superiority. But just as the tribal mentality has been turned on, it can be turned off. Then and only then can we go back to normal politics and take reasonable measures to keep our children safe.


Michelle Goldberg is off today.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

A version of this article appears in print on February 20, 2018, on Page A19 of the New York edition with the headline: Respect First, Then Gun Control. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

I think that emotions and anger are running high with these kids.

.I do hope that a paid person is not put in to cause havoc to discredit the cause like they always have.

.

 

[OldLady]

AR 15 s Are not hunting long guns

I beg to differ

.223 is an excellent hunting round.

Yet I have not met a hunter yet who hunts with one, even if they own one.

Come down to my neck of the woods

I'm serious, TN. I even asked at the local diner this a.m. I know a shit load of hunters, and not all of them live in Maine.

 

[Eaglewings]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

WRONG! The FBI does not legislate.....welfare workers do not legislate....it takes the gov't to legislate mental illness as a reason to deny their gun purchase.

Jesus.. my point was, he was evaluated and he was deemed perfectly fine and not a danger to the public.
Some Mental illness IS a reason.. WTF are you talking about?

He was cleared by a Social worker Harley.. who probably has 0 training with someone who has schizophrenia ..

Another slip through the cracks.. He should have been forced to see a physiatrist.

.

 

[Compost]

Which AR-15 Can You Hunt With?

 

[TNHarley]

18 year olds love to hunt. I am sure they appreciate you stripping their freedoms for being COMPLETELY innocent.
Even if, he would have just used something else. So, what kind of law would have stopped him from shooting up that school?

AR 15 s Are not hunting long guns.

They are rifles. Maybe what you should have said was "ban the ar15"
He would have just used another gun. SO, what law would have stopped him from shooting up the school?

What law prevents you from beating up someone?

No law prevents that. Im not in to hurting people.

Exactly.

We need a culture shift so that this kid

a. wasn’t in to hurting people in the first place
b. was recognized as someone who wanted to hurt people, and given psychiatric help
c. was deprived of the tools to hurt the most people in the least amount of time

I agree we need a culture shift.
He was recognized but the state and federal authorities said he was fine. So how do you go beyond that?
C is just a big ball of ignorance. What about a hand gun? Know how long it takes to change a magazine? About 3 seconds if you are slow. So you want to ban hand guns too? What about shotguns? You can blow away 5 people with one shell. Ban them too?
The only way banning guns would help curb shootings is to ban all of them. Good luck with that!

 

[Eaglewings]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

The law that says a person can't buy a hand gun until they are 21, should have included semi automatics like the AR15.

18 year olds love to hunt. I am sure they appreciate you stripping their freedoms for being COMPLETELY innocent.
Even if, he would have just used something else. So, what kind of law would have stopped him from shooting up that school?

Well a 18 year old can go to war and risk his life so I agree with you there..but a 18 year old who's brain isn't developed yet ( the part where we weigh in consequence) is not developed yet..

Why does he need an assault rifle at 18 ?

.

Who are you to decide what someone else needs?

Why do you think that you can not drink until 21 ? Same area of the brain..

.

 

[TNHarley]

I would love to know what law would have stopped that kid from shooting up the school.

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation.

I am today submitting to Congress the Mental Health Systems Act. This proposed legislation establishes a new partnership between the federal government and the states in the planning 'and provision of mental health services. It seeks to assure that the chronically mentally ill no longer face the cruel alternative of unnecessary institutionalization or inadequate care in the community.

When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

WRONG! The FBI does not legislate.....welfare workers do not legislate....it takes the gov't to legislate mental illness as a reason to deny their gun purchase.

Jesus.. my point was, he was evaluated and he was deemed perfectly fine and not a danger to the public.
Some Mental illness IS a reason.. WTF are you talking about?

He was cleared by a Social worker Harley.. who probably has 0 training with someone who has schizophrenia ..

Another slip through the cracks.. He should have been forced to see a physiatrist.

.

Who should have forced him? The FBI?
Your entire post is based on assumption. If you want to have a real discussion with me about guns, try to stick to reality.
People want the federal authorities to have unlimited power even though they FAIL EVERY DAMN DAY
Remember the texas shooting a year or so back? Whos fault was he was able to buy a gun? The Fucking Federal Govt.

 

[fncceo]

Which AR-15 Can You Hunt With?

You realize, of course, that hunting has frak all to do with the 2nd Amendment.

 

[OldLady]

I was going to compose a letter to these young whippersnappers today, telling them that they are the voice of hope, but only if they refrain from the usual screeching and name calling and hyperbolic empty rhetoric that passes for political "debate" these days. I didn't have to write it--David Brooks already did.
I wanted to share it with all of you, and hope/wish you will all read it and think about it.

DAVID BROOKS

Respect First, Then Gun Control
Image

Students and family members gathered at a makeshift memorial for the victims of last week’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla.CreditMark Wilson/Getty Images North America
Image

By David Brooks

Feb. 19, 2018
This has been an emotional week. We greet tragedies like the school shooting in Florida with shock, sadness, mourning and grief that turns into indignation and rage. The anger inevitably gets directed at the N.R.A., those who support gun rights, and the politicians who refuse to do anything while children die.

Many of us walked this emotional path. But we may end up doing more harm than good. If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it is that guns have become a cultural flash point in a nation that is unequal and divided. The people who defend gun rights believe that snobbish elites look down on their morals and want to destroy their culture. If we end up telling such people that they and their guns are despicable, they will just despise us back and dig in their heels.

So if you want to stop school shootings it’s not enough just to vent and march. It’s necessary to let people from Red America lead the way, and to show respect to gun owners at all points. There has to be trust and respect first. Then we can strike a compromise on guns as guns, and not some sacred cross in the culture war.

So I’ve been thinking about a group that’s in the trust and respect business. Better Angels is a nonprofit led by David Lapp, David Blankenhorn and a prominent family therapist, Bill Doherty. The team members travel from town to town finding members of the Red and Blue Tribes and bringing them together for long, humbling conversations.

My Times colleague April Lawson has gotten involved with Better Angels and has been reporting back on its techniques.

One of the most successful parts of the structured conversations is built around stereotypes. Doherty, the head moderator, asks the people at each gathering to name five major stereotypes that the other side throws at them. The Republicans invariably list “racist” first, followed by, say, “uncaring,” “uneducated,” “misogynistic” and “science deniers.”


You have 2 free articles remaining.

Subscribe to The Times


In a session Lawson attended, a Trump supporter acknowledged that the G.O.P. has had a spotty record on racial matters, but it’s important to him that Blues know that’s not why he holds his opinions.

Doherty says that the Reds feel shamed by the Blues to a much greater degree than the Blues realize. Reds are very reluctant to enter into a conversation with Blues, for fear of further shaming, but they often come to the table when they are told that this will be a chance to “de-monsterize” themselves.

At that session one Blue said she was really grateful to hear a Red acknowledge the Republican history on race. When Blues are asked about the stereotypes thrown at them, they tend to list “against religion and morality,” “unpatriotic” and “against personal responsibility” among their responses. They, too, relish the chance to clear the air.

After the stereotypes are discussed, the room feels different. As one Red in Ohio told Lawson, “I think we are all pretty clear on one thing: Don’t tell us who we are and what we think.” Another Red was moved almost to tears by the damage categories do. “We’re not just cookie-cutter people; we’re individuals. Just because you don’t like something, you don’t have to ridicule it — you probably don’t understand it,” she said. “When someone’s heart is full up with something, and then you demean it without even listening to them — I hate that.”

The discussions reveal other sensitivities. Some Blues didn’t want to enter a venue that had a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag on the wall. To Reds that was a neutral flag from American history, but to Blues it carried all sorts of nasty associations. Reds were offended by the lawn signs that said, “Hate Has No Home Here.” The implication: Hate has no home in my house, but it does in yours.

In another exercise, Reds and Blues ask each other honest, nonleading questions. Blues may ask Reds, “Name a safety-net program you can support.” Reds may ask Blues, “How do you balance having a heart with keeping health care costs under control?”

By the end of the conversations, the atmosphere has changed. Nearly always somebody will say that the discussion was easy because only moderates were in the room, not the people who post crazy stuff on Facebook. The staff tries not to smile, knowing that some of the people were selected precisely because of the intense stuff they posted on Facebook.

“This is not a civility organization,” Blankenhorn told Lawson. Better Angels is aiming to build a group of people whose personal bonds with their fellow citizens redefine how they engage in the political system.

We don’t really have policy debates anymore. We have one big tribal conflict, and policy fights are just proxy battles as each side tries to establish moral superiority. But just as the tribal mentality has been turned on, it can be turned off. Then and only then can we go back to normal politics and take reasonable measures to keep our children safe.


Michelle Goldberg is off today.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

A version of this article appears in print on February 20, 2018, on Page A19 of the New York edition with the headline: Respect First, Then Gun Control. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

I think that emotions and anger are running high with these kids.

.I do hope that a paid person is not put in to cause havoc to discredit the cause like they always have.

.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "paid person," but it sounds to me like a perfectly natural reaction by a lot of middle/upper middle class students with educated, liberal parents. They're saying what they've heard at home all their lives, adding some typical adolescent outrage. All we hear on the news is their three second sound bytes calling the NRA terrorists, but hopefully a lot more reasonable stuff is coming out of their mouths. If not, this has already gone to shit.

 

[Compost]

Which AR-15 Can You Hunt With?

You realize, of course, that hunting has frak all to do with the 2nd Amendment.

Try reading all of the remarks. I'm responding to OP's assertion that nobody hunts with an AR15.

 

[Eaglewings]

Well there was one law back during Jimmy Carters regime, and that was to allow insane people back into society. That right there started the closing of asylums that would of kept people who want to hurt themselves and others.

Jimmy Carter: Mental Health Systems Legislation Message to the Congress Transmitting the Proposed Legislation. When these sick people were allowed out of the institution, soon there were razor blades in apples and needles in candy bars at Halloween. And the rest is history....Liberal compassion ends up killing people...

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

WRONG! The FBI does not legislate.....welfare workers do not legislate....it takes the gov't to legislate mental illness as a reason to deny their gun purchase.

Jesus.. my point was, he was evaluated and he was deemed perfectly fine and not a danger to the public.
Some Mental illness IS a reason.. WTF are you talking about?

He was cleared by a Social worker Harley.. who probably has 0 training with someone who has schizophrenia ..

Another slip through the cracks.. He should have been forced to see a physiatrist.

.

Who should have forced him? The FBI?
Your entire post is based on assumption. If you want to have a real discussion with me about guns, try to stick to reality.
People want the federal authorities to have unlimited power even though they FAIL EVERY DAMN DAY
Remember the texas shooting a year or so back? Whos fault was he was able to buy a gun? The Fucking Federal Govt.

Yes, the laws already inplace should be mandatory for the law makers.. they let so many things slide.

This shooter was already forced to see a Social Worker, he was cutting himself on social media he should have been forced to see someone who understands mental illness.

.

 

[TNHarley]

Mental health laws wouldnt have stopped this guy either. He was apparently OKd by the FBI (or did they just forget?) AND the state welfare office. The childrens office deemed him perfectly sane.

WRONG! The FBI does not legislate.....welfare workers do not legislate....it takes the gov't to legislate mental illness as a reason to deny their gun purchase.

Jesus.. my point was, he was evaluated and he was deemed perfectly fine and not a danger to the public.
Some Mental illness IS a reason.. WTF are you talking about?

He was cleared by a Social worker Harley.. who probably has 0 training with someone who has schizophrenia ..

Another slip through the cracks.. He should have been forced to see a physiatrist.

.

Who should have forced him? The FBI?
Your entire post is based on assumption. If you want to have a real discussion with me about guns, try to stick to reality.
People want the federal authorities to have unlimited power even though they FAIL EVERY DAMN DAY
Remember the texas shooting a year or so back? Whos fault was he was able to buy a gun? The Fucking Federal Govt.

Yes, the laws already inplace should be mandatory for the law makers.. they let so many things slide.

This shooter was already forced to see a Social Worker, he was cutting himself on social media he should have been forced to see someone who understands mental illness.

.

How do you know that person wasnt? AGAIN, if you want a real discussion, stick to reality.
I am sure the FBI dont know how to do their jobs either..
Someone cutting themselves shouldnt be able to buy a gun because they are nuts.
Our govt FAILS CONSTANTLY and retards want to give them unlimited power. The ignorance is appalling and embarrassing

 

[flewism]

Federal HIPAA laws are also playing a part in not allowing federal agencies access to metal health information on potential or current gun owners. You know the laws that state the medical community cannot disclose your medical history.

The rules were changed in January 2016, to allow disclosure if you were involuntarily committed to a mental institution or otherwise have been determined by a courts to be a danger to themselves or others or to lack the mental capacity to manage their own affairs.

So if you voluntary commit yourself or are treated as an outpatient for metal health issues HIPAA laws prevent that being disclosed to the State/federal background check, just like an employer, school, private person or entity.

I'll bet more than a few people obtained weapons prior to January 2016 that probably shouldn't have them.

Hell now that I think about it I know 2 people that are on disability for depression related issues and both own at least long guns.


https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-professionals/special-topics/NICS/index.html

 

[OldLady]

Which AR-15 Can You Hunt With?

You realize, of course, that hunting has frak all to do with the 2nd Amendment.

Try reading all of the remarks. I'm responding to OP's assertion that nobody hunts with an AR15.

The general response is, yes, you can hunt with an AR15, but as we get talking, no one I've talked to actually uses one for hunting. That is all I'm saying.

 

[Eaglewings]

I was going to compose a letter to these young whippersnappers today, telling them that they are the voice of hope, but only if they refrain from the usual screeching and name calling and hyperbolic empty rhetoric that passes for political "debate" these days. I didn't have to write it--David Brooks already did.
I wanted to share it with all of you, and hope/wish you will all read it and think about it.

DAVID BROOKS

Respect First, Then Gun Control
Image

Students and family members gathered at a makeshift memorial for the victims of last week’s school shooting in Parkland, Fla.CreditMark Wilson/Getty Images North America
Image

By David Brooks

Feb. 19, 2018
This has been an emotional week. We greet tragedies like the school shooting in Florida with shock, sadness, mourning and grief that turns into indignation and rage. The anger inevitably gets directed at the N.R.A., those who support gun rights, and the politicians who refuse to do anything while children die.

Many of us walked this emotional path. But we may end up doing more harm than good. If there’s one thing we’ve learned, it is that guns have become a cultural flash point in a nation that is unequal and divided. The people who defend gun rights believe that snobbish elites look down on their morals and want to destroy their culture. If we end up telling such people that they and their guns are despicable, they will just despise us back and dig in their heels.

So if you want to stop school shootings it’s not enough just to vent and march. It’s necessary to let people from Red America lead the way, and to show respect to gun owners at all points. There has to be trust and respect first. Then we can strike a compromise on guns as guns, and not some sacred cross in the culture war.

So I’ve been thinking about a group that’s in the trust and respect business. Better Angels is a nonprofit led by David Lapp, David Blankenhorn and a prominent family therapist, Bill Doherty. The team members travel from town to town finding members of the Red and Blue Tribes and bringing them together for long, humbling conversations.

My Times colleague April Lawson has gotten involved with Better Angels and has been reporting back on its techniques.

One of the most successful parts of the structured conversations is built around stereotypes. Doherty, the head moderator, asks the people at each gathering to name five major stereotypes that the other side throws at them. The Republicans invariably list “racist” first, followed by, say, “uncaring,” “uneducated,” “misogynistic” and “science deniers.”


You have 2 free articles remaining.

Subscribe to The Times


In a session Lawson attended, a Trump supporter acknowledged that the G.O.P. has had a spotty record on racial matters, but it’s important to him that Blues know that’s not why he holds his opinions.

Doherty says that the Reds feel shamed by the Blues to a much greater degree than the Blues realize. Reds are very reluctant to enter into a conversation with Blues, for fear of further shaming, but they often come to the table when they are told that this will be a chance to “de-monsterize” themselves.

At that session one Blue said she was really grateful to hear a Red acknowledge the Republican history on race. When Blues are asked about the stereotypes thrown at them, they tend to list “against religion and morality,” “unpatriotic” and “against personal responsibility” among their responses. They, too, relish the chance to clear the air.

After the stereotypes are discussed, the room feels different. As one Red in Ohio told Lawson, “I think we are all pretty clear on one thing: Don’t tell us who we are and what we think.” Another Red was moved almost to tears by the damage categories do. “We’re not just cookie-cutter people; we’re individuals. Just because you don’t like something, you don’t have to ridicule it — you probably don’t understand it,” she said. “When someone’s heart is full up with something, and then you demean it without even listening to them — I hate that.”

The discussions reveal other sensitivities. Some Blues didn’t want to enter a venue that had a “Don’t Tread on Me” flag on the wall. To Reds that was a neutral flag from American history, but to Blues it carried all sorts of nasty associations. Reds were offended by the lawn signs that said, “Hate Has No Home Here.” The implication: Hate has no home in my house, but it does in yours.

In another exercise, Reds and Blues ask each other honest, nonleading questions. Blues may ask Reds, “Name a safety-net program you can support.” Reds may ask Blues, “How do you balance having a heart with keeping health care costs under control?”

By the end of the conversations, the atmosphere has changed. Nearly always somebody will say that the discussion was easy because only moderates were in the room, not the people who post crazy stuff on Facebook. The staff tries not to smile, knowing that some of the people were selected precisely because of the intense stuff they posted on Facebook.

“This is not a civility organization,” Blankenhorn told Lawson. Better Angels is aiming to build a group of people whose personal bonds with their fellow citizens redefine how they engage in the political system.

We don’t really have policy debates anymore. We have one big tribal conflict, and policy fights are just proxy battles as each side tries to establish moral superiority. But just as the tribal mentality has been turned on, it can be turned off. Then and only then can we go back to normal politics and take reasonable measures to keep our children safe.


Michelle Goldberg is off today.

Follow The New York Times Opinion section on Facebook and Twitter (@NYTopinion), and sign up for the Opinion Today newsletter.

A version of this article appears in print on February 20, 2018, on Page A19 of the New York edition with the headline: Respect First, Then Gun Control. Order Reprints | Today’s Paper | Subscribe

I think that emotions and anger are running high with these kids.

.I do hope that a paid person is not put in to cause havoc to discredit the cause like they always have.

.

I'm not sure what you mean by a "paid person," but it sounds to me like a perfectly natural reaction by a lot of middle/upper middle class students with educated, liberal parents. They're saying what they've heard at home all their lives, adding some typical adolescent outrage. All we hear on the news is their three second sound bytes calling the NRA terrorists, but hopefully a lot more reasonable stuff is coming out of their mouths. If not, this has already gone to shit.

I think that the opposition throws in paid people to disrupt and discredit the cause ( march)..I once walked in San Francisco for the US bailing out wall street while americans were losing their homes..very peaceful..

2 hours later there was violence... it happens all of the time.

.

 

[usmbguest5318]

they are the voice of hope, but only if they refrain from the usual screeching and name calling and hyperbolic empty rhetoric that passes for political "debate" these days.

Agree....To wit, anyone who cares about their integrity and the matter of gun violence and mass shootings must read this: Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies. Yes, between it and it's linked contet, it's a long read That said, it's reading everyone should do.

 

[ricechickie]

AR 15 s Are not hunting long guns.

They are rifles. Maybe what you should have said was "ban the ar15"
He would have just used another gun. SO, what law would have stopped him from shooting up the school?

What law prevents you from beating up someone?

No law prevents that. Im not in to hurting people.

Exactly.

We need a culture shift so that this kid

a. wasn’t in to hurting people in the first place
b. was recognized as someone who wanted to hurt people, and given psychiatric help
c. was deprived of the tools to hurt the most people in the least amount of time

I agree we need a culture shift.
He was recognized but the state and federal authorities said he was fine. So how do you go beyond that?
C is just a big ball of ignorance. What about a hand gun? Know how long it takes to change a magazine? About 3 seconds if you are slow. So you want to ban hand guns too? What about shotguns? You can blow away 5 people with one shell. Ban them too?
The only way banning guns would help curb shootings is to ban all of them. Good luck with that!

So you throw up your hands and say, “there’s nothing we can do! It’s all hopeless!” But at the same time, blame the liberals somehow.

I got it.