War on Christmas

[WillowTree]

Wait a minute, I'm the most rational poster here!

I'm beginning to think the real problem the people on this thread have is that they don't actually want anyone to enjoy their holidays, instead they only want to wear their Christianity on their sleeve. Selfishness was never a trait I was brought up to cultivate but these people seem to have it in spades.

so you openly admit that Saying Merry Christmas so offends people that are not Christians that it spoils their entire Holiday?? wow, those are some very narrow minded people! I feel sad for them..

 

[Ravi]

so you openly admit that Saying Merry Christmas so offends people that are not Christians that it spoils their entire Holiday?? wow, those are some very narrow minded people! I feel sad for them..

That's not remotely what I said but I've no interest in helping you to see what a narrow minded hateful Christian you really are. That's between you and God.

 

[WillowTree]

That's not remotely what I said but I've no interest in helping you to see what a narrow minded hateful Christian you really are. That's between you and God.

that's exactly what you said,,




I'm beginning to think the real problem the people on this thread have is that they don't actually want anyone to enjoy their holidays

 

[editec]

Now I know you are so full of shit... O'Reilly never says he is a secular guy.. He's a Catholic and very traditional.. jeez

Yeah, actually he did.

Saw it on TV, Willow.

No big deal really.

In the context of the subject at hand, declaring himself for secularism actually made sense.

Demanding absolute consistency in their opponents is something only stupid or dishonest people do.

They don't understand that in different issues, one can hold different positions, positions which, if the statements are perfectly parced out of the context in which statements are made, can make them look like assholes.

Now, OReilly IS an asshole...but not because in one discussion he chides secularim, and in another he declares himself FOR secularism.

That could, depending on circumstances, describe any of us, really.

The dishonesty technique is to strip the statements out of the context of the discussions in which they were made, and then to to make a case that they're hypocrites because in another dicussion one can parse out a statment which makes it appear like they're being inconsistent

It's a form intellectual dishonesty that many people fall for because it works so well, especially with some careful video editing.

It's still completely dishonest though.

 

[WillowTree]

Yeah, actually he did.

Saw it on TV, Willow.

No big deal really.

In the context of the subject at hand, declaring himself for secularism actually made sense.

Demanding absolute consistency in their opponents is something only stupid or dishonest people do.

They don't understand that in different issues, one can hold different positions, positions which, if the statements are perfectly parced out of the context in which statements are made, can make them look like assholes.

Now, OReilly IS an asshole...but not because in one discussion he chides secularim, and in another he declares himself FOR secularism.

That could, depending on circumstances, describe any of us, really.

The dishonesty technique is to strip the statements out of the context of the discussions in which they were made, and then to to make a case that they're hypocrites because in another dicussion one can parse out a statment which makes it appear like they're being inconsistent

It's a form intellectual dishonesty that many people fall for because it works so well, especially with some careful video editing.

It's still completely dishonest though.

can you find it? Because all I've ever heard from him is he is Catholic.. Have you read his new best seller? A Bold Fresh Piece Of Humanity?

 

[Zoom-boing]

I keep hearing that we're supposedly offended by Christmas and that was never the problem.

What exactly is the problem?

In a situation where one person is greeting another and has no idea what religious belief the person has, what is the harm in using a generic Happy Holiday? Do you expect that Merry Christmas should be used as a greeting for everyone of every religious belief?

NO -- have you NOT been paying any attention? Obviously not. We do not want it to be exclusively 'Merry Christmas' because that excludes those who do not believe. You, however, want it to just be 'Happy Holidays' as you think this is being all inclusive. IT ISN'T. It excludes the majority who do believe and who want Merry Christmas. Get it? Use whatever term you wish but don't yap because we want to do the same.

Let's try once again. No one is saying 'it must be Merry Christmas or nothing' NO ONE. What we're saying is 'Merry Christmas should be included'. Now, when your beloved door greeters at Wal-mart are doing their job I have no problem with them saying to me 'Happy Holidays'. I return the sentiment with 'Merry Christmas to you too'. What we object to is the complete removal of Christ/religion/Christmas in anything other than a church. What is the problem you have with a Nativity display in a store? What is the problem with calling this holiday what it is - - - Christmas? What exactly is your complaint? Are you this put-out if Hanukah or Kwanza is mentioned?

From reading some other threads you've posted in I understand your non-belief. I also get that your idea of Christmas is Santa and presents and candy canes. If this is true then to you Christmas is alive and well. It isn't the commerical aspect of Christmas that is being chipped away, it is the religious one. Having Christ and any religious aspect of Christmas removed from anything public is where the war is being waged. Having this religious aspect in public is not shoving religion or God down anyone's throat; if you do not believe then do not participate. Embrace your holiday as you wish and let us do the same.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Wait a minute, I'm the most rational poster here!

I'm beginning to think the real problem the people on this thread have is that they don't actually want anyone to enjoy their holidays, instead they only want to wear their Christianity on their sleeve. Selfishness was never a trait I was brought up to cultivate but these people seem to have it in spades.

Yet another one simply too bullheaded to actually comprehend what is being said. You are all so stuck on the 'dogma junkie wearing Christianity on their sleeves' bs that you perpetuate, that you fail to see the point. Please go back and read the posts.

 

[AllieBaba]

Cultural tolerance for all...except Christian Americans.

Libs are trying to turn anything remotely Christian into "hate speech" thereby effectively shutting down all Christian churches and communities.

What a bunch of loons.

 

[AllieBaba]

Heaven forbid a Christian TELL anyone they're a Christian. It's supposed to be a secret!

So if we're forbidden to refer to our religion publicly, does that mean we'll also make it illegal for Hindus to wear the dot on their forehead? How about Muslim headscarves...I find those offensive...do we rip them off those women because they're "wearing their faith on their sleeves"?

Buddhist monks! Yank off those robes! I find it offensive to be reminded of your Buddhism.

And nuns in habits? The HORROR!

 

[AllieBaba]

Tell me, Ravi...should we make it illegal to wear cross pendants? Should crucifixes be outlawed?

 

[WillowTree]

Cultural tolerance for all...except Christian Americans.

Libs are trying to turn anything remotely Christian into "hate speech" thereby effectively shutting down all Christian churches and communities.

What a bunch of loons.

Yep!

 

[Zoom-boing]

Cultural tolerance for all...except Christian Americans.
Libs are trying to turn anything remotely Christian into "hate speech" thereby effectively shutting down all Christian churches and communities.

What a bunch of loons.

Bingo!

 

[Ravi]

Yet another one simply too bullheaded to actually comprehend what is being said. You are all so stuck on the 'dogma junkie wearing Christianity on their sleeves' bs that you perpetuate, that you fail to see the point. Please go back and read the posts.

I doubt that. I celebrate Christmas. I wish people that I KNOW celebrate Christmas a Merry Christmas. I'm not sure about you, I can't tell what religion people are by looking at them. So when I am out in the world and it is the holiday season and I'm in a happy mood I like to wish the happiness of the season on others. I don't wish people a Merry Christmas if I don't know what they celebrate, I wish them Happy Holidays. Wishing them a Merry Christmas would be like wishing them a Happy Birthday when it wasn't their birthday.

The point of wishing people a Merry Christmas is to wish them happiness...the point is not to get in some stupid snit because you are personally affronted that people can't tell you are a Christian by looking at you. Jesus, IMNSHO, would be disgusted with your selfish assininity.

Maybe you should sew an emblem on your clothing so people know you are a Christian and can greet you without offending you.

You people are honestly the biggest assholes on the planet.

 

[Ravi]

Tell me, Ravi...should we make it illegal to wear cross pendants? Should crucifixes be outlawed?

Not at all. It's too bad you're so stupid and pigheaded that you can't grasp the teachings of Jesus.

 

[AllieBaba]

What does that have to do with your own idiocy?

 

[Zoom-boing]

Ravi, seriously -- go back and read my posts. We are in agreement here (well, except for the emblem bit. ) The fact that you continue to post what you're posting tells me you haven't read anything I've written. You are all so stuck on the 'dogma junkie wearing Christianity on their sleeves' bs that you perpetuate (your emblem statement is a prime example of this), that you fail to see the point. Please go back and read the posts.

 

[AllieBaba]

And I have yet to see one post of yours that shows you have any knowledge whatsoever of the teachings of Christ. Maybe you could enlighten me.
(That was for Ravi)

 

[editec]

can you find it? Because all I've ever heard from him is he is Catholic.. Have you read his new best seller? A Bold Fresh Piece Of Humanity?

I saw it on the Keith Oberman show, Willow.

In one clip he was chiding secularism, on another he was declaring himself a secularist.

Keith was making a big deal about it, of course.

But my point is, and reamins, that whenever somebody's words are taken out of the context in which they were first uttered, it's dishonest.

Like I say, I like Kieth and think Bill's a blowhard, but that technique is dishonest, anyway.

Both sides do it.

Idiots on both sides think it proves something.

The only thing it proves is that anyone can be shown to be a hypocrite if one employs this dishonest methodology of parcing out their words, to do so.

 

[AllieBaba]

O'Reilly may have said he has secular leanings, but he's a Catholic and makes no bones about it.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I saw it on the Keith Oberman show, Willow.

In one clip he was chiding secularism, on another he was declaring himself a secularist.

Keith was making a big deal about it, of course.

But my point is, and reamins, that whenever somebody's words are taken out of the context in which they were first uttered, it's dishonest.

Like I say, I like Kieth and think Bill's a blowhard, but that technique is dishonest, anyway.

Both sides do it.

Idiots on both sides think it proves something.

The only thing it proves is that anyone can be shown to be a hypocrite if one employs this dishonest methodology of parcing out their words, to do so.

Do you have a link? How can we know if Oberman wasn't doing an O'Reilly and just doing some fancy editing? (Not doubting you, just wondering).