Warning: Graphic: It's been 50 years since AP photographer Nick Ut captured image of 9-year-old girl running naked from a napalm attack during Vietnam

[Hector12]

If it was not signed it was not violated.

No one prevented it. They were capable of holding it without us

What matters is that the vast majority of the Vietnamese supported Ho Chi Chi Minh. Moreover, Vietnam was unimportant to our economy and our security.

 

[Hector12]

If it was not signed it was not violated.

No one prevented it. They were capable of holding it without us

If Ho Chi Minh was more clever he would have held the election in North Vietnam, and invited journalists from all over the world to visit North Vietnam to verify that the election was an honest one.

Unfortunately, Ho modeled himself after Lenin. Lenin knew that he was unpopular in Russia, and that he needed to use dictatorial methods to stay in power. With his popularity Ho could have governed as a democratic socialist. He could have allowed a loyal opposition and an adversary press. He could have eventually unified Vietnam under his leadership without a war.

 

[Soupnazi630]

What matters is that the vast majority of the Vietnamese supported Ho Chi Chi Minh. Moreover, Vietnam was unimportant to our economy and our security.

That is misleading. The vast majority of vietnamese did not support Minh or anyone else. The average peasant in Vietnam was illiterate and unconcerned with anything going on outside a short distance from his or her home village. Many of the educated classes within the mlarger cities supported him but not overwhelmingly. Many opposed him. They just happened to be the hundreds of thousands of North Vietnamese who he massacred upon siezing power.

Can't have those pesky criminals who are guiilty of being educated or owning property voicing opposition to your communist regime.

 

[Hector12]

That is misleading. The vast majority of vietnamese did not support Minh or anyone else. The average peasant in Vietnam was illiterate and unconcerned with anything going on outside a short distance from his or her home village. Many of the educated classes within the mlarger cities supported him but not overwhelmingly. Many opposed him. They just happened to be the hundreds of thousands of North Vietnamese who he massacred upon siezing power.

Can't have those pesky criminals who are guiilty of being educated or owning property voicing opposition to your communist regime.

President Eisenhower disagreed with you. We should have left Vietnam alone.

 

[Soupnazi630]

President Eisenhower disagreed with you. We should have left Vietnam alone.

We did. Untiil the communist aggressor attacked our treaty ally

 

[whitehall]

Dramatic photos sell papers and promote political agendas. Shit happens in war. It's too bad that there were no photographers in Dresden Germany who survived to record the firebombing. MacArthur spiked images of horrific ongoing suffering by Japanese in Hiroshima for political reasons and the A.P. wasn't interested. Rumors were rampant about "daisy cutter" bombs Clinton authorized to use on rural residents of Yugoslavia. Allegedly the bombs beheaded every living thing over four feet tall within 30 meters. Alas there were no photos of Clinton's splendid little bombing campaign that would jeopardize the political agenda of the "come back kid" and his wife. A.P photographers had long since retired or become part of the democrat party agenda.

 

[elektra]

Our biggest loss, or how we lose, is education.

If we do not establish an education system that educates the masses throughout the world we will always lose.

Afghanistan, Charlie Wilson made it clear we needed to stay, to educate.

The world yearns for freedom, but freedom without education is hollow. Viet-Nam needed to be educated, and that is how we lost the war. The illiterate peasants received their education from the communists. We had no way in place to counter this fact.

The French, mostly good for Viet-Nam. We should of supported the French, Roosevelt and Truman turned their back on the French, as did Eisenhower.

 

[Hector12]

Our biggest loss, or how we lose, is education.

If we do not establish an education system that educates the masses throughout the world we will always lose.

Afghanistan, Charlie Wilson made it clear we needed to stay, to educate.

The world yearns for freedom, but freedom without education is hollow. Viet-Nam needed to be educated, and that is how we lost the war. The illiterate peasants received their education from the communists. We had no way in place to counter this fact.

The French, mostly good for Viet-Nam. We should of supported the French, Roosevelt and Truman turned their back on the French, as did Eisenhower.

We and the French had no right to impose our values on the Vietnamese.

 

[Hector12]

It's been 50 years since AP photographer Nick Ut captured image of 9-year-old girl running naked from a napalm attack during Vietnam.​

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The photographer should not have published the photo without shading the little girls's vulva. That photo qualifies as child pornography.

 

[elektra]

We and the French had no right to impose our values on the Vietnamese.

I know, nobody wants to be free, like us. Certainly not those millions of Vietnamese that fled and live in Westminster and Garden Grove.

 

[Hector12]

I know, nobody wants to be free, like us. Certainly not those millions of Vietnamese that fled and live in Westminster and Garden Grove.

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it:

"I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai."

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

I have known and lived with Vietnamese refugees in the United States. They are good people. If most of the Vietnamese agreed with them, we would not have lost the War in Vietnam.

We devastated Vietnam to prevent the ascension of a leader most of the Vietnamese wanted. You should have learned by our ill fated twenty year war in Afghanistan that a lot of people in the world do not want to be like the United States.

 

[Hector12]

We did. Untiil the communist aggressor attacked our treaty ally

According to Eisenhower the Communist aggressor was supported by the overwhelming majority of the Vietnamese. The Communists could not have won otherwise.

 

[Hector12]

The Soviets tried to conquer and enslave us.

The Soviets also tried to conquer and enslave our ally South Vietnam.

They succeeded at the latter when the Democratic Party stabbed our ally in the back and abandoned them.

You are wrong on both counts. The Soviets never attacked us. During the Russian Civil War, which followed the First World War, U.S. soldiers were in the Soviet Union fighting the Communists.

 

[Hector12]

We didnt block the vote. People simply blame us for not holding the vote. Which was not the US responsibility

The point is that Ho Chi Minh would have won a fair election under international supervision by a blow out.

 

[elektra]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it:

"I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai."

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

I have known and lived with Vietnamese refugees in the United States. They are good people. If most of the Vietnamese agreed with them, we would not have lost the War in Vietnam.

We devastated Vietnam to prevent the ascension of a leader most of the Vietnamese wanted. You should have learned by our ill fated twenty year war in Afghanistan that a lot of people in the world do not want to be like the United States.

Who would the Vietnamese vote for after Eisenhower betrayed the French, unleashing the communists on Dien Bien Phu? Is that your question?

Can we direct you to page 338 of the book you suggest, to confirm that Eisenhower did in fact screw up, start the war in Viet-Nam.

Hospitals, roads, bridges, schools, cement plants, those terrible French built all across French IndoChina.

Eisenhower was a democrat general that turned his back on democrats, becoming a republican so that he could become president.

Eisenhower may of been good at taking orders as a general, but he was shitty at giving the orders and making decisions as president.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The point is that Ho Chi Minh would have won a fair election under international supervision by a blow out.

No that is not the point.

Nor is it accurate.

The point is that he refused to be elected and therefore siezed power in a coup.

He may well have won but it is not certain. Especially since most vietnamese would not have voted at all one way or the other

 

[Soupnazi630]

According to Eisenhower the Communist aggressor was supported by the overwhelming majority of the Vietnamese. The Communists could not have won otherwise.

No that is not according to ike.

Also one need not have popular support to win a war.

 

[Soupnazi630]

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it:

"I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai."

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

I have known and lived with Vietnamese refugees in the United States. They are good people. If most of the Vietnamese agreed with them, we would not have lost the War in Vietnam.

We devastated Vietnam to prevent the ascension of a leader most of the Vietnamese wanted. You should have learned by our ill fated twenty year war in Afghanistan that a lot of people in the world do not want to be like the United States.

The US did not permit or refuse to permit an election. We wwre not responsible for holding elections there.

We never stopped it. The Vietnamese refused to hold it.

Most of the devastation was caused by the communists.

 

[Hector12]

The US did not permit or refuse to permit an election. We wwre not responsible for holding elections there.

We never stopped it. The Vietnamese refused to hold it.

Most of the devastation was caused by the communists.

The South Vietnamese people did not vote to avoid the election scheduled for July 1956. That decision was made by the dictator of South Vietnam, Ngo Dien Diem.

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The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

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Where did you get the idea that most of the devastation was caused by the Communists?

Between March 1965 and November 1968, Rolling Thunder deluged the north with a million tons of missiles, rockets and bombs.[105]: ...

Between 1964 and 1973, the U.S. dropped two million tons of bombs on Laos, nearly equal to the 2.1 million tons of bombs the U.S. dropped on Europe and Asia during all of World War II, making Laos the most heavily bombed country in history relative to the size of its population.[154]

Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This does not include the bombs the United States dropped on South Vietnam.

 

[Hector12]

No that is not the point.

Nor is it accurate.

The point is that he refused to be elected and therefore siezed power in a coup.

He may well have won but it is not certain. Especially since most vietnamese would not have voted at all one way or the other

Your assertions go against my documented facts.