Warren and the Divine Right of Capital: Accountable Capitalism Act

[sparky]

Government owned by crony capitalists killed those people.
Your link:

Katrina Report Blames Levees

"Robert Bea, a University of California at Berkeley engineer and Corps critic, called Strock's comments and the report signs of 'a leadership in growth.'

"'They're catching up with the 1,000 years of progress of the Dutch,' Bea said, referring to the Netherlands' long, and mostly successful, history of battling the North Sea."

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

Katrina was the match and capitalism is the fuel that destroyed New Orleans; blaming "government" makes as much sense as blaming WMDs for the capitalist looting of Iraq.

"Profits Over People

"Clearly, in the minds of the billionaires who rule this country, war and profits come before relief for ordinary people faced with the most difficult of situations.

"Partially due to the huge amount of resources devoted to the Iraq war, state and local governments have implemented vicious budget cuts that have caused, amongst other things, less money to be devoted to dealing with natural disasters.

"Recent years have seen a marked increase in the number of hurricanes and other major natural disasters, some of which the probably the result of climate change.

"Of course, it would have been impossible to prevent all the damage done by Katrina, but much of it was preventable.

"New Orleans has a record of flooding during hurricanes. The city is built below sea level, and it is kept from constant flooding by a system of levees and pumps.

"The levees are set up to withstand some level three hurricanes, but Katrina was a level four hurricane. There is plenty of technology to create levees that withstand even level five hurricanes."

Hurricane Katrina: A Disaster Worsened by Capitalism | Socialist Alternative

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

So, if your job here is selling people (Ha! See what I did there?) on the joys of all-powerful government, Imma be real with you, Chief -- it ain't workin'.

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

Who controls government in the US, capitalists or workers?

The Making of the American Police State

"The vast majority of the American police state remains firmly within the public sector. But this does not mean the criminal justice buildup has nothing to do with capitalism.

"At its heart, the new American repression is very much about the restoration and maintenance of ruling class power.

"American society and economy have from the start evolved through forms of racialized violence, but criminal justice was not always so politically central.

"For the better part of a century after the end of Reconstruction in the 1870s, the national incarceration rate hovered at around 100 to 110 per 100,000. But then, in the early 1970s, the incarceration rate began a precipitous and continual climb upward."

Government responds to those who control the economy.
A democratic economy will produce a government that doesn't have to rely on police state tactics.

It always has so far.

You condemn oppression by corporatists.

And you think the answer is oppression by bureaucrats.

Not when the corporatists Own them....

~S~

 

[georgephillip]

Government owned by crony capitalists killed those people.
Your link:

Katrina Report Blames Levees

"Robert Bea, a University of California at Berkeley engineer and Corps critic, called Strock's comments and the report signs of 'a leadership in growth.'

"'They're catching up with the 1,000 years of progress of the Dutch,' Bea said, referring to the Netherlands' long, and mostly successful, history of battling the North Sea."

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

Katrina was the match and capitalism is the fuel that destroyed New Orleans; blaming "government" makes as much sense as blaming WMDs for the capitalist looting of Iraq.

"Profits Over People

"Clearly, in the minds of the billionaires who rule this country, war and profits come before relief for ordinary people faced with the most difficult of situations.

"Partially due to the huge amount of resources devoted to the Iraq war, state and local governments have implemented vicious budget cuts that have caused, amongst other things, less money to be devoted to dealing with natural disasters.

"Recent years have seen a marked increase in the number of hurricanes and other major natural disasters, some of which the probably the result of climate change.

"Of course, it would have been impossible to prevent all the damage done by Katrina, but much of it was preventable.

"New Orleans has a record of flooding during hurricanes. The city is built below sea level, and it is kept from constant flooding by a system of levees and pumps.

"The levees are set up to withstand some level three hurricanes, but Katrina was a level four hurricane. There is plenty of technology to create levees that withstand even level five hurricanes."

Hurricane Katrina: A Disaster Worsened by Capitalism | Socialist Alternative

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

So, if your job here is selling people (Ha! See what I did there?) on the joys of all-powerful government, Imma be real with you, Chief -- it ain't workin'.

Capitalism can be a grand system

You see you're approach is only black/ white

Capitalism needs a leash , otherwise it eats itself

said leash is bureaucratic oversight, da gub'mit

Free markets are anarchy w/out this

~S~

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No.

And what were the two largest and most expensive bailouts of the entire crash? Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac, out of all the lenders in the entire crash, it was the two that are the most closely tied to government.

And your system never has stopped anything. In fact, if you look at all the areas of the economy that have the most government intervention.... it's those areas that have the most problems. Education, health care, banking. Those three areas have the absolute most government regulation and oversight, and those are the three the most screwed up areas of the country.

There is zero evidence that capitalism without government, will hang itself. And every single time people point to an example of capitalism failing, it always ends up being a socialized system.

The Federal Government, directly sued banks, to force them to make sub-prime loans. Then those loans fail, and people start screaming the capitalism fails? If the government had not forced banks to make bad loans the sub-prime crash would never have happened.

Look at all the areas of the economy, that are the least regulated. Do you see country wide shortages of office supplies? No. Do you see a mass shortage of food? No. Do you see a mass shortage of office space? No.

Let's even look at local laws. Take housing. Zoning laws are super strict in LA. Houston TX has no zoning laws whatsoever. Where do you see mass housing shortages, and extreme homelessness? LA... not Houston. In fact Houston has some of the most affordable living space in the country... on average. I'm not saying it's extremely cheap, just that compared to over similarly growing and wealthy cities, it's one of the cheapest.

Again, no evidence that unregulated Capitalism will hang itself.

One of the best aspects of Capitalism, is that is self regulating. If you produce a bad product.... we stop buying it. You go out of business. If you provide a bad service, we stop buying it, and you go out of business.

This is why Angie's List exists. We look up from other people that have tried your stuff, and find out it it is crap or not.

Regulations and oversight, usually have the opposite effect. Most of those regulations and oversight, are routinely used by bad actors, to cover their deeds.

The most famous example, was Enron. There was a meeting between Jeff Skilling and the bond holders, where they said directly that looking at the companies reports, it seem to appear as though the company was hiding something. The executives with Jeff Skilling told the concerned bond holders, that they had submitted the proper filing with the SEC, and they could see that for themselves.

They used the fact they had filed papers with the SEC, to conceal the fact the company was in a death spiral. The SEC and other regulations, and regulators, never caught Enron. Enron itself filed for bankruptcy, which revealed the fraud.

If there had never been a regulator, I wager the bond holders in that meeting in the 1990s, would have hired investigators to look into Enron's dealings. It was because there was an SEC, and Enron used the SEC to hide their fraud, that it continued.

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No

What effect did the legalization of stock buybacks have on the 2008 crash, about the same as today's Repo market scam?

Is the Run on the Dollar Due to Panic or Greed?

"[If] the 10 largest U.S. Bank Holding Companies [BHCs] were to retain a greater share of their earnings earmarked for dividends and share buybacks in 2017 they would be able to increase loans by more than $1 trillion, which is greater than 5 percent of annual U.S. GDP.

“Four of the 10 BHCs will distribute more than 100 percent of their current year’s earnings, which alone could support approximately $537 billion in new loans to Main Street.

"'If share buybacks of $83 billion, representing 72 percent of total payouts for these 10 BHCs in 2017, were instead retained, they could, under current capital rules, increase small business loans by three quarters of a trillion dollars or mortgage loans by almost one and a half trillion dollars.'"

 

[sparky]

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

Katrina was the match and capitalism is the fuel that destroyed New Orleans; blaming "government" makes as much sense as blaming WMDs for the capitalist looting of Iraq.

"Profits Over People

"Clearly, in the minds of the billionaires who rule this country, war and profits come before relief for ordinary people faced with the most difficult of situations.

"Partially due to the huge amount of resources devoted to the Iraq war, state and local governments have implemented vicious budget cuts that have caused, amongst other things, less money to be devoted to dealing with natural disasters.

"Recent years have seen a marked increase in the number of hurricanes and other major natural disasters, some of which the probably the result of climate change.

"Of course, it would have been impossible to prevent all the damage done by Katrina, but much of it was preventable.

"New Orleans has a record of flooding during hurricanes. The city is built below sea level, and it is kept from constant flooding by a system of levees and pumps.

"The levees are set up to withstand some level three hurricanes, but Katrina was a level four hurricane. There is plenty of technology to create levees that withstand even level five hurricanes."

Hurricane Katrina: A Disaster Worsened by Capitalism | Socialist Alternative

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

So, if your job here is selling people (Ha! See what I did there?) on the joys of all-powerful government, Imma be real with you, Chief -- it ain't workin'.

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

Who controls government in the US, capitalists or workers?

The Making of the American Police State

"The vast majority of the American police state remains firmly within the public sector. But this does not mean the criminal justice buildup has nothing to do with capitalism.

"At its heart, the new American repression is very much about the restoration and maintenance of ruling class power.

"American society and economy have from the start evolved through forms of racialized violence, but criminal justice was not always so politically central.

"For the better part of a century after the end of Reconstruction in the 1870s, the national incarceration rate hovered at around 100 to 110 per 100,000. But then, in the early 1970s, the incarceration rate began a precipitous and continual climb upward."

Government responds to those who control the economy.
A democratic economy will produce a government that doesn't have to rely on police state tactics.

It always has so far.

You condemn oppression by corporatists.

And you think the answer is oppression by bureaucrats.

It always has so far.

You condemn oppression by corporatists.

And you think the answer is oppression by bureaucrats.

Why has government always supported those who control the economy?
Because throughout history there have always been two main economic classes, those of produce economic surplus and those who appropriate and distribute that surplus.
Masters and slaves.
Lords and serfs
Employers and employees.
Governments always go with the money, so why not distribute the surplus democratically instead of allowing a fraction of one percent of the population to acquire vast private fortunes in the first place?

Learning from Emilia Romagna’s cooperative economy

Interesting George

so here we see gub'mit sanctioned trickle down, a good decade before Reagan crash & burn

we really are isolated fools here

~S~

 

[georgephillip]

Katrina was the match and capitalism is the fuel that destroyed New Orleans; blaming "government" makes as much sense as blaming WMDs for the capitalist looting of Iraq.

"Profits Over People

"Clearly, in the minds of the billionaires who rule this country, war and profits come before relief for ordinary people faced with the most difficult of situations.

"Partially due to the huge amount of resources devoted to the Iraq war, state and local governments have implemented vicious budget cuts that have caused, amongst other things, less money to be devoted to dealing with natural disasters.

"Recent years have seen a marked increase in the number of hurricanes and other major natural disasters, some of which the probably the result of climate change.

"Of course, it would have been impossible to prevent all the damage done by Katrina, but much of it was preventable.

"New Orleans has a record of flooding during hurricanes. The city is built below sea level, and it is kept from constant flooding by a system of levees and pumps.

"The levees are set up to withstand some level three hurricanes, but Katrina was a level four hurricane. There is plenty of technology to create levees that withstand even level five hurricanes."

Hurricane Katrina: A Disaster Worsened by Capitalism | Socialist Alternative

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

So, if your job here is selling people (Ha! See what I did there?) on the joys of all-powerful government, Imma be real with you, Chief -- it ain't workin'.

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

Who controls government in the US, capitalists or workers?

The Making of the American Police State

"The vast majority of the American police state remains firmly within the public sector. But this does not mean the criminal justice buildup has nothing to do with capitalism.

"At its heart, the new American repression is very much about the restoration and maintenance of ruling class power.

"American society and economy have from the start evolved through forms of racialized violence, but criminal justice was not always so politically central.

"For the better part of a century after the end of Reconstruction in the 1870s, the national incarceration rate hovered at around 100 to 110 per 100,000. But then, in the early 1970s, the incarceration rate began a precipitous and continual climb upward."

Government responds to those who control the economy.
A democratic economy will produce a government that doesn't have to rely on police state tactics.

It always has so far.

You condemn oppression by corporatists.

And you think the answer is oppression by bureaucrats.

It always has so far.

You condemn oppression by corporatists.

And you think the answer is oppression by bureaucrats.

Why has government always supported those who control the economy?
Because throughout history there have always been two main economic classes, those of produce economic surplus and those who appropriate and distribute that surplus.
Masters and slaves.
Lords and serfs
Employers and employees.
Governments always go with the money, so why not distribute the surplus democratically instead of allowing a fraction of one percent of the population to acquire vast private fortunes in the first place?

Learning from Emilia Romagna’s cooperative economy

Interesting George

so here we see gub'mit sanctioned trickle down, a good decade before Reagan crash & burn

we really are isolated fools here

~S~

Interesting George

so here we see gub'mit sanctioned trickle down, a good decade before Reagan crash & burn

we really are isolated fools here

Imho, we are fools for basing our political decisions on non-economic criteria: "The mode of production of material life determines the social, political and intellectual life process in general." Marx and Engles

Trump cashed in on this in 2016 when he convinced displaced workers across the Rust Belt he was a populist; maybe Dems will notice in 2020?

 

[Andylusion]

So how are things today on the propaganda gravy train? What did I miss?

Do you like memes?

Elizabeth Warren's best and worst economic ideas

Her best economic idea was lying about being an Indian.

Made her millions.

Her best economic idea was lying about being an Indian.

Made her millions.

But not billion$

So what?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No.

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal, nor their henchman Barney Frank (bankster /politician) chairing the entire whitewash for them years later

Seriously, learn some fiscal history

~S~

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal,

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

Share some of your "fiscal history".

Jeebus, in march the Clinton supporters..

Clean the crap off your glasses.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So how are things today on the propaganda gravy train? What did I miss?

Do you like memes?

Elizabeth Warren's best and worst economic ideas

Her best economic idea was lying about being an Indian.

Made her millions.

Her best economic idea was lying about being an Indian.

Made her millions.

But not billion$

What do Warren's lies have to do with Cruz or Trump?

She was spewing her crap before either one ever ran for office.

 

[georgephillip]

No one forced Walmart into Cambodia either, but Walmart sure moved its fat ass in there to exploit their cheap labor and loose environmental regulations. Did you know Walmart was a big "Buy American!" screamer until suddenly... they weren't anymore

You should stop shopping at WalMart until they make all their goods in the US...….

You should stop shopping at WalMart until they make all their goods in the US...….

You people never learn do you?

The whole reason Apple invested so heavily into Ireland, was because of the lower tax rate.

Increase taxes on corporations will only result in corporations investing more and more outside the US.
When will you people ever learn? How many times do you have to keep trying the same failed policies, before you figure out they don't work?

You people never learn do you?

The whole reason Apple invested so heavily into Ireland, was because of the lower tax rate.

You people are too dense to understand when rich corporations dodge their taxes, you pay the difference.

Sales at Apple’s Irish holding company rise 13.1% to $155.8bn

"In 2016, the European Commission found that Apple had benefited from illegal state aid in the Republic, and ordered it to pay €13 billion in taxes and penalties it said were owed. That money was paid into an escrow account pending the conclusion of pending appeals of the decision by the company and the State, who both claim the commission erred in its judgment."

Well first.... illegal state aid? Ireland is a sovereign state, and has the right to determine their own laws. For the EC to declare that their low tax is illegal, is dubious to me.

You realize that the Dutch still have a church tax, right? If the Dutch then said that you George, were illegally not paying the church tax, would you still be on here citing other countries claiming someone is violating a law from another country? No you wouldn't. We all know you wouldn't. You are only citing this now, because it happens to fit your partisan narrative.

If a Saudi man married your daughter, and then started beating the crap out of her, you wouldn't just accept it because the Saudis sent an official note that beatings are legal there.

But back to the main point:

Other than the dubious 'it's illegal claim'... the rest of that is dead on right, and makes my point. Apple is reacting to the tax incentives it faces. And by the way, Apple already openly said that if the tax benefit of investing in Ireland changes, they will move operations.

Again, Apple is still going to react to the incentives given. If you jack up taxes on their operations in Ireland... they are not just going to pay higher tax. They are going to move operations elsewhere. If you increase taxes here, they'll move there. If you increase taxes there, they'll move somewhere else.

There is always going to be somewhere that has a lower tax rate. Always. And business will react to that.

So you can complain about "You people are too dense to understand when rich corporations dodge their taxes, you pay the difference." but that complaint changes nothing.

Whether you believe that to be true or not, does not matter. Business will continue to react to the tax incentives given to it.

I mean again... Venezuela had the same view as you. They taxed the crap out of business, and business started leaving. They got so pissed about business leaving, they started nationalizing. Now they have almost no business left in the country, mass unemployment, and the country is in ruins.

Business can move.

Did you learn nothing from France's wealth tax? France imposed a large wealth tax, and hundreds of businesses packed up and left the country. The flight was so bad, they had to repeal the wealth tax.

So all your blaw blaw blaw about how terrible it is, doesn't matter. Business *WILL* react to tax incentives. You jack up taxes, and they'll move someplace else.

Well first.... illegal state aid? Ireland is a sovereign state, and has the right to determine their own laws. For the EC to declare that their low tax is illegal, is dubious to me

Is that because you believe shareholders (parasites) and executives are more entitled to corporate profits than the governments that charter the corporations' existence?

EU illegal State aid case against Apple in Ireland - Wikipedia

"The issue was Apple's variation of the 'double Irish' tax system, which, from 2004–2014, Apple used to shield €110.8 billion[5][12] of non–US profits from tax.[13]

"Apple did not use the standard two separate Irish companies, as Google and other Irish-based US multinationals employ with their 'double Irish' tax systems, but instead received two rulings from the Irish Revenue Commissioners (in 1991, and again updated in 2007), that it could use a single Irish company, split into 'two branches'.

"These were private rulings to Apple, not given to other Irish-based US multinationals, and thus charged as illegal Irish state aid by the Commission.[11]"

 

[georgephillip]

No one forced Walmart into Cambodia either, but Walmart sure moved its fat ass in there to exploit their cheap labor and loose environmental regulations. Did you know Walmart was a big "Buy American!" screamer until suddenly... they weren't anymore

You should stop shopping at WalMart until they make all their goods in the US...….

You should stop shopping at WalMart until they make all their goods in the US...….

You people never learn do you?

The whole reason Apple invested so heavily into Ireland, was because of the lower tax rate.

Increase taxes on corporations will only result in corporations investing more and more outside the US.
When will you people ever learn? How many times do you have to keep trying the same failed policies, before you figure out they don't work?

You people never learn do you?

The whole reason Apple invested so heavily into Ireland, was because of the lower tax rate.

You people are too dense to understand when rich corporations dodge their taxes, you pay the difference.

Sales at Apple’s Irish holding company rise 13.1% to $155.8bn

"In 2016, the European Commission found that Apple had benefited from illegal state aid in the Republic, and ordered it to pay €13 billion in taxes and penalties it said were owed. That money was paid into an escrow account pending the conclusion of pending appeals of the decision by the company and the State, who both claim the commission erred in its judgment."

Well first.... illegal state aid? Ireland is a sovereign state, and has the right to determine their own laws. For the EC to declare that their low tax is illegal, is dubious to me.

You realize that the Dutch still have a church tax, right? If the Dutch then said that you George, were illegally not paying the church tax, would you still be on here citing other countries claiming someone is violating a law from another country? No you wouldn't. We all know you wouldn't. You are only citing this now, because it happens to fit your partisan narrative.

If a Saudi man married your daughter, and then started beating the crap out of her, you wouldn't just accept it because the Saudis sent an official note that beatings are legal there.

But back to the main point:

Other than the dubious 'it's illegal claim'... the rest of that is dead on right, and makes my point. Apple is reacting to the tax incentives it faces. And by the way, Apple already openly said that if the tax benefit of investing in Ireland changes, they will move operations.

Again, Apple is still going to react to the incentives given. If you jack up taxes on their operations in Ireland... they are not just going to pay higher tax. They are going to move operations elsewhere. If you increase taxes here, they'll move there. If you increase taxes there, they'll move somewhere else.

There is always going to be somewhere that has a lower tax rate. Always. And business will react to that.

So you can complain about "You people are too dense to understand when rich corporations dodge their taxes, you pay the difference." but that complaint changes nothing.

Whether you believe that to be true or not, does not matter. Business will continue to react to the tax incentives given to it.

I mean again... Venezuela had the same view as you. They taxed the crap out of business, and business started leaving. They got so pissed about business leaving, they started nationalizing. Now they have almost no business left in the country, mass unemployment, and the country is in ruins.

Business can move.

Did you learn nothing from France's wealth tax? France imposed a large wealth tax, and hundreds of businesses packed up and left the country. The flight was so bad, they had to repeal the wealth tax.

So all your blaw blaw blaw about how terrible it is, doesn't matter. Business *WILL* react to tax incentives. You jack up taxes, and they'll move someplace else.

Again, Apple is still going to react to the incentives given. If you jack up taxes on their operations in Ireland... they are not just going to pay higher tax. They are going to move operations elsewhere. If you increase taxes here, they'll move there. If you increase taxes there, they'll move somewhere else.

Who writes those incentives?
Government.
A government that serves the interests of the richest one percent of its citizens; change the government, and change the incentives.

Corporate tax cheats bring home the stash

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

That doesn't support your claim.

Hey, George, quick question here:

Have you talked anyone into supporting your political philosophy?

Katrina was the match and capitalism is the fuel that destroyed New Orleans; blaming "government" makes as much sense as blaming WMDs for the capitalist looting of Iraq.

"Profits Over People

"Clearly, in the minds of the billionaires who rule this country, war and profits come before relief for ordinary people faced with the most difficult of situations.

"Partially due to the huge amount of resources devoted to the Iraq war, state and local governments have implemented vicious budget cuts that have caused, amongst other things, less money to be devoted to dealing with natural disasters.

"Recent years have seen a marked increase in the number of hurricanes and other major natural disasters, some of which the probably the result of climate change.

"Of course, it would have been impossible to prevent all the damage done by Katrina, but much of it was preventable.

"New Orleans has a record of flooding during hurricanes. The city is built below sea level, and it is kept from constant flooding by a system of levees and pumps.

"The levees are set up to withstand some level three hurricanes, but Katrina was a level four hurricane. There is plenty of technology to create levees that withstand even level five hurricanes."

Hurricane Katrina: A Disaster Worsened by Capitalism | Socialist Alternative

So...you prove capitalism is evil by posting a picture of police state tactics.

Yeah, not seeing a real selling point for increased government control here.

So, if your job here is selling people (Ha! See what I did there?) on the joys of all-powerful government, Imma be real with you, Chief -- it ain't workin'.

Capitalism can be a grand system

You see you're approach is only black/ white

Capitalism needs a leash , otherwise it eats itself

said leash is bureaucratic oversight, da gub'mit

Free markets are anarchy w/out this

~S~

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No.

And what were the two largest and most expensive bailouts of the entire crash? Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac, out of all the lenders in the entire crash, it was the two that are the most closely tied to government.

And your system never has stopped anything. In fact, if you look at all the areas of the economy that have the most government intervention.... it's those areas that have the most problems. Education, health care, banking. Those three areas have the absolute most government regulation and oversight, and those are the three the most screwed up areas of the country.

There is zero evidence that capitalism without government, will hang itself. And every single time people point to an example of capitalism failing, it always ends up being a socialized system.

The Federal Government, directly sued banks, to force them to make sub-prime loans. Then those loans fail, and people start screaming the capitalism fails? If the government had not forced banks to make bad loans the sub-prime crash would never have happened.

Look at all the areas of the economy, that are the least regulated. Do you see country wide shortages of office supplies? No. Do you see a mass shortage of food? No. Do you see a mass shortage of office space? No.

Let's even look at local laws. Take housing. Zoning laws are super strict in LA. Houston TX has no zoning laws whatsoever. Where do you see mass housing shortages, and extreme homelessness? LA... not Houston. In fact Houston has some of the most affordable living space in the country... on average. I'm not saying it's extremely cheap, just that compared to over similarly growing and wealthy cities, it's one of the cheapest.

Again, no evidence that unregulated Capitalism will hang itself.

One of the best aspects of Capitalism, is that is self regulating. If you produce a bad product.... we stop buying it. You go out of business. If you provide a bad service, we stop buying it, and you go out of business.

This is why Angie's List exists. We look up from other people that have tried your stuff, and find out it it is crap or not.

Regulations and oversight, usually have the opposite effect. Most of those regulations and oversight, are routinely used by bad actors, to cover their deeds.

The most famous example, was Enron. There was a meeting between Jeff Skilling and the bond holders, where they said directly that looking at the companies reports, it seem to appear as though the company was hiding something. The executives with Jeff Skilling told the concerned bond holders, that they had submitted the proper filing with the SEC, and they could see that for themselves.

They used the fact they had filed papers with the SEC, to conceal the fact the company was in a death spiral. The SEC and other regulations, and regulators, never caught Enron. Enron itself filed for bankruptcy, which revealed the fraud.

If there had never been a regulator, I wager the bond holders in that meeting in the 1990s, would have hired investigators to look into Enron's dealings. It was because there was an SEC, and Enron used the SEC to hide their fraud, that it continued.

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No

What effect did the legalization of stock buybacks have on the 2008 crash, about the same as today's Repo market scam?

Is the Run on the Dollar Due to Panic or Greed?

"[If] the 10 largest U.S. Bank Holding Companies [BHCs] were to retain a greater share of their earnings earmarked for dividends and share buybacks in 2017 they would be able to increase loans by more than $1 trillion, which is greater than 5 percent of annual U.S. GDP.

“Four of the 10 BHCs will distribute more than 100 percent of their current year’s earnings, which alone could support approximately $537 billion in new loans to Main Street.

"'If share buybacks of $83 billion, representing 72 percent of total payouts for these 10 BHCs in 2017, were instead retained, they could, under current capital rules, increase small business loans by three quarters of a trillion dollars or mortgage loans by almost one and a half trillion dollars.'"

What effect did the legalization of stock buybacks have on the 2008 crash

Little if any.

about the same as today's Repo market scam?

What "repo scam" are you imagining?

Is the Run on the Dollar Due to Panic or Greed?

What run on the dollar?

the 10 largest U.S. Bank Holding Companies [BHCs] were to retain a greater share of their earnings earmarked for dividends and share buybacks in 2017 they would be able to increase loans by more than $1 trillion, which is greater than 5 percent of annual U.S. GDP.​

Their loan book is as large as they'd like it to be.
​

“Four of the 10 BHCs will distribute more than 100 percent of their current year’s earnings, which alone could support approximately $537 billion in new loans to Main Street.​

Reducing the new capital and liquidity requirements would also support more loans.​

 

[dblack]

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You should stop shopping at WalMart until they make all their goods in the US...….

You should stop shopping at WalMart until they make all their goods in the US...….

You people never learn do you?

The whole reason Apple invested so heavily into Ireland, was because of the lower tax rate.

Increase taxes on corporations will only result in corporations investing more and more outside the US.
When will you people ever learn? How many times do you have to keep trying the same failed policies, before you figure out they don't work?

You people never learn do you?

The whole reason Apple invested so heavily into Ireland, was because of the lower tax rate.

You people are too dense to understand when rich corporations dodge their taxes, you pay the difference.

Sales at Apple’s Irish holding company rise 13.1% to $155.8bn

"In 2016, the European Commission found that Apple had benefited from illegal state aid in the Republic, and ordered it to pay €13 billion in taxes and penalties it said were owed. That money was paid into an escrow account pending the conclusion of pending appeals of the decision by the company and the State, who both claim the commission erred in its judgment."

Well first.... illegal state aid? Ireland is a sovereign state, and has the right to determine their own laws. For the EC to declare that their low tax is illegal, is dubious to me.

You realize that the Dutch still have a church tax, right? If the Dutch then said that you George, were illegally not paying the church tax, would you still be on here citing other countries claiming someone is violating a law from another country? No you wouldn't. We all know you wouldn't. You are only citing this now, because it happens to fit your partisan narrative.

If a Saudi man married your daughter, and then started beating the crap out of her, you wouldn't just accept it because the Saudis sent an official note that beatings are legal there.

But back to the main point:

Other than the dubious 'it's illegal claim'... the rest of that is dead on right, and makes my point. Apple is reacting to the tax incentives it faces. And by the way, Apple already openly said that if the tax benefit of investing in Ireland changes, they will move operations.

Again, Apple is still going to react to the incentives given. If you jack up taxes on their operations in Ireland... they are not just going to pay higher tax. They are going to move operations elsewhere. If you increase taxes here, they'll move there. If you increase taxes there, they'll move somewhere else.

There is always going to be somewhere that has a lower tax rate. Always. And business will react to that.

So you can complain about "You people are too dense to understand when rich corporations dodge their taxes, you pay the difference." but that complaint changes nothing.

Whether you believe that to be true or not, does not matter. Business will continue to react to the tax incentives given to it.

I mean again... Venezuela had the same view as you. They taxed the crap out of business, and business started leaving. They got so pissed about business leaving, they started nationalizing. Now they have almost no business left in the country, mass unemployment, and the country is in ruins.

Business can move.

Did you learn nothing from France's wealth tax? France imposed a large wealth tax, and hundreds of businesses packed up and left the country. The flight was so bad, they had to repeal the wealth tax.

So all your blaw blaw blaw about how terrible it is, doesn't matter. Business *WILL* react to tax incentives. You jack up taxes, and they'll move someplace else.

Well first.... illegal state aid? Ireland is a sovereign state, and has the right to determine their own laws. For the EC to declare that their low tax is illegal, is dubious to me

Is that because you believe shareholders (parasites) and executives are more entitled to corporate profits than the governments that charter the corporations' existence?

EU illegal State aid case against Apple in Ireland - Wikipedia

"The issue was Apple's variation of the 'double Irish' tax system, which, from 2004–2014, Apple used to shield €110.8 billion[5][12] of non–US profits from tax.[13]

"Apple did not use the standard two separate Irish companies, as Google and other Irish-based US multinationals employ with their 'double Irish' tax systems, but instead received two rulings from the Irish Revenue Commissioners (in 1991, and again updated in 2007), that it could use a single Irish company, split into 'two branches'.

"These were private rulings to Apple, not given to other Irish-based US multinationals, and thus charged as illegal Irish state aid by the Commission.[11]"

Shareholders and executives are more entitled to corporate profits than the government parasites that charter the corporations' existence.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No.

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal, nor their henchman Barney Frank (bankster /politician) chairing the entire whitewash for them years later

Seriously, learn some fiscal history

~S~

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal,

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

Share some of your "fiscal history".

Jeebus, in march the Clinton supporters..

Clean the crap off your glasses.

Note to sparky: The intended target has responded (as expected) here..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I disagree with that. You know just look at 2008. That's the perfect example. Banks are the most highly regulated, with the most heavy oversight, in the country. Did all your oversight, and regulations, stop anything? No.

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal, nor their henchman Barney Frank (bankster /politician) chairing the entire whitewash for them years later

Seriously, learn some fiscal history

~S~

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal,

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

Share some of your "fiscal history".

Jeebus, in march the Clinton supporters..

Clean the crap off your glasses.

Note to sparky: The intended target has responded (as expected) here..

Glad you've realized your error.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal, nor their henchman Barney Frank (bankster /politician) chairing the entire whitewash for them years later

Seriously, learn some fiscal history

~S~

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal,

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

Share some of your "fiscal history".

Jeebus, in march the Clinton supporters..

Clean the crap off your glasses.

Note to sparky: The intended target has responded (as expected) here..

Glad you've realized your error.

Sarcastic humor is risky. Often misinterpreted. I'll take that risk now and then, no matter how many Clinton holdouts like you think it in "error."

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I see you've little knowledge of the Clinton's rescinding Glass Steagal,

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

Share some of your "fiscal history".

Jeebus, in march the Clinton supporters..

Clean the crap off your glasses.

Note to sparky: The intended target has responded (as expected) here..

Glad you've realized your error.

Sarcastic humor is risky. Often misinterpreted. I'll take that risk now and then, no matter how many Clinton holdouts like you think it in "error."

no matter how many Clinton holdouts like you

That's not even a little funny.

Both Clintons belong in jail.

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

 

[sparky]

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

the part that allows banks to take more 'risk' .....

Aftermath of the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act - Wikipedia

~S~

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

the part that allows banks to take more 'risk' .....

Aftermath of the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act - Wikipedia

~S~

Glass Steagall didn't prevent banks from writing or buying crappy mortgages.

You don't know as much fiscal history as you imagine.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

the part that allows banks to take more 'risk' .....

Aftermath of the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act - Wikipedia

~S~

While accepting that under Glass–Steagall financial firms could still have "made, sold, and securitized risky mortgages, all the while fueling a massive housing bubble and building a highly leveraged, Ponzi-like pyramid of derivatives on top," the New Rules Project concludes that commentators who deny the GLBA played a role in the financial crisis "fail to recognize the significance of 1999 as the pivotal policy-making moment leading up to the crash."

^
Your own source.

 

[Grumblenuts]

If left in place, which part of Glass Steagall would have prevent banks from writing, or buying, crappy mortgages?

the part that allows banks to take more 'risk' .....

Aftermath of the repeal of the Glass–Steagall Act - Wikipedia

~S~

While accepting that under Glass–Steagall financial firms could still have "made, sold, and securitized risky mortgages, all the while fueling a massive housing bubble and building a highly leveraged, Ponzi-like pyramid of derivatives on top," the New Rules Project concludes that commentators who deny the GLBA played a role in the financial crisis "fail to recognize the significance of 1999 as the pivotal policy-making moment leading up to the crash."

^
Your own source.

OMG, it reads!

Also supports the Clintons, denies the GLBA played a role in the financial crisis, and fails to recognize the significance of 1999 as the pivotal policy-making moment leading up to the crash.