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Yup companies did not put any money back into the facilities that they had in many industries. And much of that was inflexibility of the unions to allow them to upgrade them because of the loss of jobs to come. However 87% of the manufacturing jobs were lost to automation not do to moving overseas.
An example, Goodyear moved a plant to the south sometime in the 60's, to avoid paying higher union wages and benies of course. Then by the 80's shuttered that non-union plant to move to South America (Brazil maybe) after operating there for maybe 10 or so years they moved to Southeast Asia. You know why? Yup because it was cheaper to do over there. Why did they leave the southeast USA, and South America those plants were not union? Corporate greed my friend that's why. For people like you and Ray Ray corporate greed is great, but do not let the working class make to much money. They might get uppity and want more.
Actually it comes down to producing a product that costs low enough for people to buy. Everybody wants cheap products today and it's difficult to produce those products in the US, and impossible to produce them in the US with a union.
The problem our automotive companies had were the unions. My mechanic explained that the US puts their money into labor, wages and benefits. Japanese cars put their money into quality parts. So Toyota can offer 100,000 mile 7 year warranty that most American made cars can't. So years ago I took my mechanics advice and bought Toyota.
I've had two since then, and until last week, neither ever broke down. Last week a power steering hose went, but what the hell, the car has just a little over 100,000 miles and outside of replacing the battery once, it's the first repair I ever had done on the car.
But they build very few cars here and the price doesn't go down it goes up and the companies pocket more money. I love how you are all for corporate greed but against better wages, benies and conditions for the worker. I have to leave in an hour or so to have a minor procedure done this morning. 80% of it paid for by my union supplied health and welfare.
I have a Chevy truck with over 200,000 miles on and have had nothing but normal maintenance issues and 1 fuel pump. Looking to get another next fall.
Yes, I've heard stories like that, and many more just the opposite. With American made cars, it's a hit or miss deal. After my last American made car hit 30,000 miles, my former mechanic drove it more than I did.
But it's not just my mechanics advice I used. I did some searching around the internet, took note of the broken down vehicles on the side of the road, and since I made a lot of deliveries to UAW plants at the time, I didn't want these lazy MF's making my next car.
Believe it or not, Toyota doesn't pay too far off of American union wages. But unlike union plants, they promote based on accomplishment instead of how much time you've been on that union job. You get raises by merit--not by contract. They don't have legacy costs that until this day haunt our automotive industry. There was a guy I used to hang out with as a kid. I ran into him at the hardware store, and he told me he remained friends with another guy we used to hang around with. He retired with the UAW when he was something like 48 years old; fully paid medical care for life, pension, the works. That's what you pay for with an American vehicle.
They paying wage pretty close to union wage, but once the benefit package is added in you will notice a difference. As far as building trades Ray, seniority makes no difference. Once you take a job, you come off the out of work list. When job is over you com e back to your hiring hall and sign the bottom of the list.
Advancement with a contractor is the same as non-union, by merit or ass sucking. As far as vehicles I have only bought domestic my whole life(it is a union loyalty thing, you wouldn't understand) and only had one bad experience with a Ford F150! All my other vehicles are maintained only for the most part..
That may be true except perhaps of the union steward. My father is a retired bricklayer. He got me to join up when I was young. I know how construction trades work.
There were good unions and bad. The UAW is a bad union. Unions like them are bad.
I went to one of our regular customers several years back. The shipper was upset that I showed up. He was backed up with all kinds of work and loading my truck put a damper in his pace. So I asked why he didn't get his helper to load my truck?
He told me because his new helper was afraid to drive the tow motor. Confused, I asked why they gave him a job in shipping of all places if he couldn't drive the tow motor? He said because the guy has the most seniority in the union.
So I asked "If the Fn guy can't do the job, why don't you go to your union and tell them he's worthless to you? He turned off the tow motor, let out a sigh, and calmly said "Look.........If I drove this thing through the front of your trailer, I would still have my job tomorrow because of the union. But if I even hinted that another union man cannot do his job, they would throw my ass out on the street in 30 seconds." He restarted the tow motor and continued loading my truck.
I have countless stories like this one. It used to happen all the time in union plants. To be honest, I don't even know if that company is open anymore. I haven't been there in over a year.
Everything was fine until Ears invaded the White House. So what happened when unions made demands in the past? Companies moved out of state or country to get away from them.
Unions had their place and use at one time, just like the ice man and horse shoe maker. But that time is long gone, and people realize the damage unions have done to this country.
As for your minimum wage argument, it's nothing but bull. Most companies today are non-union and they don't pay minimum wage or force people to work 60 hours a week. That's boloney.
However that's the same argument my father kept making to me. He's a retired union bricklayer. One day when I got fed up with him telling me I wouldn't be making what I make today if not for unions, I told him i wouldn't have to make what I make today if I could afford one of the houses that he built.
That was the last time he used that argument with me.
If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.
My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.
I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.
In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.
I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.
My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.
I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.
In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.
I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.
My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.
I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.
In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.
I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
Wages still stagnant and now we are paying more.
If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.
My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.
I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.
In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.
I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
Actually it comes down to producing a product that costs low enough for people to buy. Everybody wants cheap products today and it's difficult to produce those products in the US, and impossible to produce them in the US with a union.
The problem our automotive companies had were the unions. My mechanic explained that the US puts their money into labor, wages and benefits. Japanese cars put their money into quality parts. So Toyota can offer 100,000 mile 7 year warranty that most American made cars can't. So years ago I took my mechanics advice and bought Toyota.
I've had two since then, and until last week, neither ever broke down. Last week a power steering hose went, but what the hell, the car has just a little over 100,000 miles and outside of replacing the battery once, it's the first repair I ever had done on the car.
But they build very few cars here and the price doesn't go down it goes up and the companies pocket more money. I love how you are all for corporate greed but against better wages, benies and conditions for the worker. I have to leave in an hour or so to have a minor procedure done this morning. 80% of it paid for by my union supplied health and welfare.
I have a Chevy truck with over 200,000 miles on and have had nothing but normal maintenance issues and 1 fuel pump. Looking to get another next fall.
Yes, I've heard stories like that, and many more just the opposite. With American made cars, it's a hit or miss deal. After my last American made car hit 30,000 miles, my former mechanic drove it more than I did.
But it's not just my mechanics advice I used. I did some searching around the internet, took note of the broken down vehicles on the side of the road, and since I made a lot of deliveries to UAW plants at the time, I didn't want these lazy MF's making my next car.
Believe it or not, Toyota doesn't pay too far off of American union wages. But unlike union plants, they promote based on accomplishment instead of how much time you've been on that union job. You get raises by merit--not by contract. They don't have legacy costs that until this day haunt our automotive industry. There was a guy I used to hang out with as a kid. I ran into him at the hardware store, and he told me he remained friends with another guy we used to hang around with. He retired with the UAW when he was something like 48 years old; fully paid medical care for life, pension, the works. That's what you pay for with an American vehicle.
They paying wage pretty close to union wage, but once the benefit package is added in you will notice a difference. As far as building trades Ray, seniority makes no difference. Once you take a job, you come off the out of work list. When job is over you com e back to your hiring hall and sign the bottom of the list.
Advancement with a contractor is the same as non-union, by merit or ass sucking. As far as vehicles I have only bought domestic my whole life(it is a union loyalty thing, you wouldn't understand) and only had one bad experience with a Ford F150! All my other vehicles are maintained only for the most part..
That may be true except perhaps of the union steward. My father is a retired bricklayer. He got me to join up when I was young. I know how construction trades work.
There were good unions and bad. The UAW is a bad union. Unions like them are bad.
I went to one of our regular customers several years back. The shipper was upset that I showed up. He was backed up with all kinds of work and loading my truck put a damper in his pace. So I asked why he didn't get his helper to load my truck?
He told me because his new helper was afraid to drive the tow motor. Confused, I asked why they gave him a job in shipping of all places if he couldn't drive the tow motor? He said because the guy has the most seniority in the union.
So I asked "If the Fn guy can't do the job, why don't you go to your union and tell them he's worthless to you? He turned off the tow motor, let out a sigh, and calmly said "Look.........If I drove this thing through the front of your trailer, I would still have my job tomorrow because of the union. But if I even hinted that another union man cannot do his job, they would throw my ass out on the street in 30 seconds." He restarted the tow motor and continued loading my truck.
I have countless stories like this one. It used to happen all the time in union plants. To be honest, I don't even know if that company is open anymore. I haven't been there in over a year.
I have countless stories of us having to go in various plants and redo what the non-union has fucked up. Most of the non-union are pretty much unskilled labor, the foreman and a few others actually know the job. The rest can barely walk and chew gum. Seen it countless times.
But they build very few cars here and the price doesn't go down it goes up and the companies pocket more money. I love how you are all for corporate greed but against better wages, benies and conditions for the worker. I have to leave in an hour or so to have a minor procedure done this morning. 80% of it paid for by my union supplied health and welfare.
I have a Chevy truck with over 200,000 miles on and have had nothing but normal maintenance issues and 1 fuel pump. Looking to get another next fall.
Yes, I've heard stories like that, and many more just the opposite. With American made cars, it's a hit or miss deal. After my last American made car hit 30,000 miles, my former mechanic drove it more than I did.
But it's not just my mechanics advice I used. I did some searching around the internet, took note of the broken down vehicles on the side of the road, and since I made a lot of deliveries to UAW plants at the time, I didn't want these lazy MF's making my next car.
Believe it or not, Toyota doesn't pay too far off of American union wages. But unlike union plants, they promote based on accomplishment instead of how much time you've been on that union job. You get raises by merit--not by contract. They don't have legacy costs that until this day haunt our automotive industry. There was a guy I used to hang out with as a kid. I ran into him at the hardware store, and he told me he remained friends with another guy we used to hang around with. He retired with the UAW when he was something like 48 years old; fully paid medical care for life, pension, the works. That's what you pay for with an American vehicle.
They paying wage pretty close to union wage, but once the benefit package is added in you will notice a difference. As far as building trades Ray, seniority makes no difference. Once you take a job, you come off the out of work list. When job is over you com e back to your hiring hall and sign the bottom of the list.
Advancement with a contractor is the same as non-union, by merit or ass sucking. As far as vehicles I have only bought domestic my whole life(it is a union loyalty thing, you wouldn't understand) and only had one bad experience with a Ford F150! All my other vehicles are maintained only for the most part..
That may be true except perhaps of the union steward. My father is a retired bricklayer. He got me to join up when I was young. I know how construction trades work.
There were good unions and bad. The UAW is a bad union. Unions like them are bad.
I went to one of our regular customers several years back. The shipper was upset that I showed up. He was backed up with all kinds of work and loading my truck put a damper in his pace. So I asked why he didn't get his helper to load my truck?
He told me because his new helper was afraid to drive the tow motor. Confused, I asked why they gave him a job in shipping of all places if he couldn't drive the tow motor? He said because the guy has the most seniority in the union.
So I asked "If the Fn guy can't do the job, why don't you go to your union and tell them he's worthless to you? He turned off the tow motor, let out a sigh, and calmly said "Look.........If I drove this thing through the front of your trailer, I would still have my job tomorrow because of the union. But if I even hinted that another union man cannot do his job, they would throw my ass out on the street in 30 seconds." He restarted the tow motor and continued loading my truck.
I have countless stories like this one. It used to happen all the time in union plants. To be honest, I don't even know if that company is open anymore. I haven't been there in over a year.
I have countless stories of us having to go in various plants and redo what the non-union has fucked up. Most of the non-union are pretty much unskilled labor, the foreman and a few others actually know the job. The rest can barely walk and chew gum. Seen it countless times.
Prove it let's hear a made up story...
My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.
I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.
In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.
I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
We choose cheaper products and stock market growth because that benefits a far wider slice of America. To give up the other two in order to help a very small slice of the pie would not make much sense.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
The explanation is simple, they make products that the American populus wants to buy and we do not make much they want to buy.
...t.
Attention never works...I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
We choose cheaper products and stock market growth because that benefits a far wider slice of America. To give up the other two in order to help a very small slice of the pie would not make much sense.
The people in question are hardly a "very small slice",
and they have been taking one of the team for a very long time now.
They deserve some attention to their interests too.
Attention never works...The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
We choose cheaper products and stock market growth because that benefits a far wider slice of America. To give up the other two in order to help a very small slice of the pie would not make much sense.
The people in question are hardly a "very small slice",
and they have been taking one of the team for a very long time now.
They deserve some attention to their interests too.
It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.Attention never works...Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
We choose cheaper products and stock market growth because that benefits a far wider slice of America. To give up the other two in order to help a very small slice of the pie would not make much sense.
The people in question are hardly a "very small slice",
and they have been taking one of the team for a very long time now.
They deserve some attention to their interests too.
That's another debate for another time.
Do you agree that all Americans have a right to have their interests considered in national policy?
It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.Attention never works...I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
We choose cheaper products and stock market growth because that benefits a far wider slice of America. To give up the other two in order to help a very small slice of the pie would not make much sense.
The people in question are hardly a "very small slice",
and they have been taking one of the team for a very long time now.
They deserve some attention to their interests too.
That's another debate for another time.
Do you agree that all Americans have a right to have their interests considered in national policy?
Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.Attention never works...We choose cheaper products and stock market growth because that benefits a far wider slice of America. To give up the other two in order to help a very small slice of the pie would not make much sense.
The people in question are hardly a "very small slice",
and they have been taking one of the team for a very long time now.
They deserve some attention to their interests too.
That's another debate for another time.
Do you agree that all Americans have a right to have their interests considered in national policy?
So, you are not opposed then?
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
The explanation is simple, they make products that the American populus wants to buy and we do not make much they want to buy.
...t.
Or, they are fucking cheating.
My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.
I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.
In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.
I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.
THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.
Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.
The definition of insanity is..............
Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.
There was also a domino effect as well.
Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.
Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.
The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.
The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"
The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.
Three points, the small one first.
1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.
2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?
Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.
What is the new plan?
THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.
That is not a viable solution in my opinion.
3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.
I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.
The problem is we have three things to choose from:
Cheap products
Good paying American jobs.
Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.
We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.
Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com
I don't believe that we cannot have good paying American jobs, and good IRAs. I'm willing to sack cheap products.
