Washing machines/dryers prices up 17% under Trump (thank you, tariffs)

[Correll]

The people in question are hardly a "very small slice",


and they have been taking one of the team for a very long time now.


They deserve some attention to their interests too.

Attention never works...

That's another debate for another time.


Do you agree that all Americans have a right to have their interests considered in national policy?

It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.

So, you are not opposed then?

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.

I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.

In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.

I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.

THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.


Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.

The definition of insanity is..............

Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.

There was also a domino effect as well.

Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.

Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.

The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.

The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"

The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.

Three points, the small one first.


1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.





2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?

Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.


What is the new plan?


THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.


That is not a viable solution in my opinion.


3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.

The problem is we have three things to choose from:

Cheap products

Good paying American jobs.

Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.

We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I always try to buy American, and where I can I do buy union made. Do not care if I have to pay more. Same as grocery shopping, I try to only shop at grocery stores that are union. I absolutely do not do self checkout because that is taking away jobs.

Employing people with good wages and good benies is always a good thing for people. MAGA!

I don't ever use self-checkout myself because in doing so, I'm helping to eliminate jobs.

 

[Correll]

3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

The explanation is simple, they make products that the American populus wants to buy and we do not make much they want to buy.
...t.

Or, they are fucking cheating.

Yeah, they cheated us and made us buy their products...that's what happened.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you can't imagine how a government might cheat it's trading partners in order to advance it's own nation's interests,


is rejected.


You might not be smart, but you are not that stupid.



My point stands. As you did not seriously address it.



Or, they are fucking cheating.

 

[Brain357]

Attention never works...

That's another debate for another time.


Do you agree that all Americans have a right to have their interests considered in national policy?

It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.

So, you are not opposed then?

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

 

[Correll]

I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.

THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.


Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.

The definition of insanity is..............

Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.

There was also a domino effect as well.

Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.

Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.

The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.

The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"

The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.

Three points, the small one first.


1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.





2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?

Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.


What is the new plan?


THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.


That is not a viable solution in my opinion.


3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.

The problem is we have three things to choose from:

Cheap products

Good paying American jobs.

Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.

We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I don't believe that we cannot have good paying American jobs, and good IRAs. I'm willing to sack cheap products.

I'm sure you do, but we are the minority, and business don't cater to the minority, they cater to he largest group of customers they have.

Which is why Trade Policy has always been a government function.


We elected Trump on an American First platform.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

The explanation is simple, they make products that the American populus wants to buy and we do not make much they want to buy.
...t.

Or, they are fucking cheating.

Yeah, they cheated us and made us buy their products...that's what happened.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you can't imagine how a government might cheat it's trading partners in order to advance it's own nation's interests,


is rejected.


You might not be smart, but you are not that stupid.



My point stands. As you did not seriously address it.



Or, they are fucking cheating.

The problem is you are totally removing any responsibility from the citizens of this country and putting all the blame on someone else.

Nothing any foreign government did made anyone buy a single product from their country, it was a free choice on our part.

 

[Brain357]

I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.

THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.


Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.

The definition of insanity is..............

Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.

There was also a domino effect as well.

Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.

Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.

The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.

The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"

The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.

Three points, the small one first.


1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.





2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?

Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.


What is the new plan?


THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.


That is not a viable solution in my opinion.


3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.

The problem is we have three things to choose from:

Cheap products

Good paying American jobs.

Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.

We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I always try to buy American, and where I can I do buy union made. Do not care if I have to pay more. Same as grocery shopping, I try to only shop at grocery stores that are union. I absolutely do not do self checkout because that is taking away jobs.

Employing people with good wages and good benies is always a good thing for people. MAGA!

I don't ever use self-checkout myself because in doing so, I'm helping to eliminate jobs.

But you fully support the CEOs adding all those self checkouts.

 

[Correll]

That's another debate for another time.


Do you agree that all Americans have a right to have their interests considered in national policy?

It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.

So, you are not opposed then?

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

 

[Correll]

3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

The explanation is simple, they make products that the American populus wants to buy and we do not make much they want to buy.
...t.

Or, they are fucking cheating.

Yeah, they cheated us and made us buy their products...that's what happened.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you can't imagine how a government might cheat it's trading partners in order to advance it's own nation's interests,


is rejected.


You might not be smart, but you are not that stupid.



My point stands. As you did not seriously address it.



Or, they are fucking cheating.

The problem is you are totally removing any responsibility from the citizens of this country and putting all the blame on someone else.

Nothing any foreign government did made anyone buy a single product from their country, it was a free choice on our part.

Trade policy is not an individual responsibility.


THe predatory trade policies of our trading partners, are their fault.


Our incompetent and corrupt political class also deserves some of the blame, of course.

 

[Brain357]

It’s really not a debate, there is no example of it working.

So, you are not opposed then?

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

 

[Correll]

So, you are not opposed then?

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

 

[Brain357]

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

I did. It is the cheap ass labor and poor quality of life. Tariffs have nothing to do with it.

 

[Correll]

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

I did. It is the cheap ass labor and poor quality of life. Tariffs have nothing to do with it.

Maybe, MAYBE with China, tariffs are not the issue.


But with the EU? Or Japan?



Chinese wages are a lot higher than 40 years ago. THat is success.

 

[bendog]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs.
In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

Put those illegal kids to work ASAP. Trump has a plan. No washy no eaty.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The explanation is simple, they make products that the American populus wants to buy and we do not make much they want to buy.
...t.

Or, they are fucking cheating.

Yeah, they cheated us and made us buy their products...that's what happened.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you can't imagine how a government might cheat it's trading partners in order to advance it's own nation's interests,


is rejected.


You might not be smart, but you are not that stupid.



My point stands. As you did not seriously address it.



Or, they are fucking cheating.

The problem is you are totally removing any responsibility from the citizens of this country and putting all the blame on someone else.

Nothing any foreign government did made anyone buy a single product from their country, it was a free choice on our part.

Trade policy is not an individual responsibility.


THe predatory trade policies of our trading partners, are their fault.


Our incompetent and corrupt political class also deserves some of the blame, of course.

On what do you base the claim their policies are predatory?

 

[Brain357]

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

I did. It is the cheap ass labor and poor quality of life. Tariffs have nothing to do with it.

Maybe, MAYBE with China, tariffs are not the issue.


But with the EU? Or Japan?



Chinese wages are a lot higher than 40 years ago. THat is success.

What do you expect to suddenly sell more of to the EU?

 

[Correll]

Or, they are fucking cheating.

Yeah, they cheated us and made us buy their products...that's what happened.

Your pretense that you are so stupid that you can't imagine how a government might cheat it's trading partners in order to advance it's own nation's interests,


is rejected.


You might not be smart, but you are not that stupid.



My point stands. As you did not seriously address it.



Or, they are fucking cheating.

The problem is you are totally removing any responsibility from the citizens of this country and putting all the blame on someone else.

Nothing any foreign government did made anyone buy a single product from their country, it was a free choice on our part.

Trade policy is not an individual responsibility.


THe predatory trade policies of our trading partners, are their fault.


Our incompetent and corrupt political class also deserves some of the blame, of course.

On what do you base the claim their policies are predatory?

Various reports over the years, on the way Vat taxes work, various WTO rulings,


plus my natural suspicion on the fact that we almost ALWAYS are losing these trade balances.


We have some of the most productive workers in the world, and the most patents and technological innovation,


and yet, we always lose.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Yes I am. I believe in free market capitalism. Gov shouldn’t be involved, they always make it worse.

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

You realize that China has a Socialist Market Economy and the central government control great portions of the economy.

Are you willing to embrace such a economic system in this country to get those jobs for Americans?

 

[Correll]

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

I did. It is the cheap ass labor and poor quality of life. Tariffs have nothing to do with it.

Maybe, MAYBE with China, tariffs are not the issue.


But with the EU? Or Japan?



Chinese wages are a lot higher than 40 years ago. THat is success.

What do you expect to suddenly sell more of to the EU?

Everything.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

If 17 bucks per 100 is going to break you, get a fuckin rock.

Now if those 17 bucks per hundred was in pursuit of guaranteeing everyone had health insurance -- that would definitely break me -- because I'm selfish

but if its for tariffs and stuff Trump tells me are good -- I am all for it!!!

 

[Correll]

The governments of our trading "partners" are involved, in making sure that the US gets fucked.


THat's not Free Market.

In the absence of getting them to stop, ie they won't, you want US to ignore the fact we are being fucked?

They are sending us their resources very cheaply. I don’t see how that is bad.

You must have an example where things have been made better?

I'm not talking about their resources so much as their finished products.


YOu want an example of government policy making things better?


Sure.

The Chinese government has a policy of enriching their nation though massive trade surplus.


It has made things better for them, at our expense.

Labor is a resource. You wish to pay more for their products? Great negotiator...

You’d rather be in China then making those great wages? Maybe you like the pollution? No thanks.

I want those jobs for Americans.

I want those products built using American labor.


You claimed that government policy never makes anything better.



I gave you an example of one doing that. You want to address that?

You realize that China has a Socialist Market Economy and the central government control great portions of the economy.

Are you willing to embrace such a economic system in this country to get those jobs for Americans?

Trump could slap a complete ban on Chinese trade tomorrow, and that would in no way require that the US government assume control of great portions of the economy.


YOur question's premise, is absurd.