We can't compromise! We can't collaborate! We can't cooperate!

You don't compromise with liberal traitors you defeat them.

Those "Liberal traitors" are actually pictured in the OP. Here they are again:

Constitutional-Convention.jpg

How's that "defeat" coming along then?

:itsok: the old liberals founded the country myth re-surfaces.

It ain't no "myth"; it's recorded history.

Take it, Wiki:
>> Liberalism became a distinct movement in the Age of Enlightenment, when it became popular among Westernphilosophers and economists. Liberalism sought to replace the norms of hereditary privilege, state religion, absolute monarchy, the divine right of kings and traditional conservatism with representative democracy and the rule of law. Liberals also ended mercantilist policies, royal monopolies and other barriers to trade, instead promoting free markets.[11] Philosopher John Locke is often credited with founding liberalism as a distinct tradition, arguing that each man has a natural right to life, liberty and property,[12] adding that governments must not violate these rights based on the social contract. While the British liberal tradition has emphasised expanding democracy, French liberalism has emphasised rejecting authoritarianism and is linked to nation-building.[13]

Leaders in the Glorious Revolution of 1688,[14] the American Revolution of 1776 and the French Revolution of 1789 used liberal philosophy to justify the armed overthrow of royal tyranny. Liberalism started to spread rapidly especially after the French Revolution. The 19th century saw liberal governments established in nations across Europe and South America, whereas it was well-established alongside republicanism in the United States.[15] <<​

But thanks for demonstrating what the OP was talking about.


Today's liberals have nothing in common with the Classical Liberalism of the Founders.... the Founders were against concentrated government power while todays "Liberals" want all power concentrated at the federal level.

In that case you must be misusing a term you don't understand to apply to whoever you're applying it to. And that's completely on you.
 
I'm sure glad these guys didn't say what today's parties are saying.
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Constitutional-Convention.jpg

Here's the diff between THEN and NOW. The founders were fighting from a paupers position of power. They had NONE. ZERO. So besides hanging together on a gallows -- they had nothing to lose in terms of INFRASTRUCTURE or INSTITUTION.

Today -- the fight is INTERNAL over the keys to the most powerful government on the planet. BOTH radical wings simply want to clubber the other and WIN those keys. And with it comes immunity from being accountable and a whole lot of OTHER benefits .In fact, the party that LOSES the keys -- gets clubbered continuously.

And the WINGERS don't CARE about this giant rotten carcass of an INEPT and CORRUPT govt when THEIR TRIBE has the keys. So there's no NEED to compromise any more. Because one side WINS TOTALLY. And the other totally loses. Too much power. Not enough benefit to the people. THe problem is the massive State that has constructed to perpetuate itself without hardly any management or direction.
What concerns me is that the hollowing out of the middle within the political "class" has extended to the society in general, at least to a degree.

Since media is saturated by this partisanship, it has spread to social media and the street. It all seems to be feeding on itself.
.

It's like watching your mom and dad fight. It alienates you from domesticity and leaves you without a "side" to take. The people OUTSIDE this tribal shitstorm see ALL the hypocrisy and senselessness. And they are waiting for the independent leaders that don't engage in this childish fingerpointing and drama. I don't think career politicians have a future in America right now. The Big Middle is gonna be making all the decisions. You KNOW that -- because not only has the MEDIA taken itself out of the game. But even the POLLING is broken because they are still (for the most part) using 20th century models of how to pull "representative samples" from a 2 sided contest.
 
Here is my compromise on my issue...gun control.

I will take no universal background checks, no gun registration, no assualt weapon ban, which is unConstitutional anyway, no magazine limits which are also a stupid thing,

And I will give a 30 year sentence when a gun is used for a real crime, rape, robbery or murder.

I will give a 30 year sentence in addition to the gun sentence if a criminal uses a magazine in a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder....

There..... my give will actually reduce gun crime and gun murder.... it also has the added advantage of not impacting law abiding gun owners in anyway and does not violate the Constitution......
Not according to gun nuts! They say the criminals do not obey laws no matter what the punishment.
 
I agree completely that the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left (as compared to actual liberals) are prepared to impose more and more restrictions on rights, and I often wonder how far they would go if given enough latitude.
And there you go again blaming both sides, er.... er.... wait a minute you are only blaming the Left. Why didn't you point out that the Right wants to insert the law and a judge between a woman and her doctor, mister both sides do it???
 
I agree completely that the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left (as compared to actual liberals) are prepared to impose more and more restrictions on rights, and I often wonder how far they would go if given enough latitude.
And there you go again blaming both sides, er.... er.... wait a minute you are only blaming the Left. Why didn't you point out that the Right wants to insert the law and a judge between a woman and her doctor, mister both sides do it???

Maybe because it's obvious. The key here is that if Democrats started caring about liberty again, they might be able to win back some of the votes they've lost chasing down their 'Great Society'.

That's what I don't get. There are some key things Democrats could do to totally undermine Trump's support. Here's one. Repeal ACA. I'm serious. Admit your mistakes and, in the process, pull the rug out from underneath Republicans by proposing a replacement for ACA that people can actually get behind. Resist the urge to create another feeding trough for lobbyists. Propose modest, incremental improvements instead of a federal bureaucrat's wet dream.

Here's another: Do something about immigration. Make the Republican's a deal they can't refuse by actually addressing the sham of our immigration situation. But make it sane and humane as an alternative to Trump's depravity.

Another: Back off on the freak-of-the-week approach to civil rights. It scares the meek and unworldly.
 
I'm sure glad these guys didn't say what today's parties are saying.
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Constitutional-Convention.jpg
They did own slaves and held all men to be free. And they were in all likelihood, ornery elitist white males that didn't like taxes. The crown spent a lot of money defending the colonies from the French and they where within their rights to ask to be repaid, so the American rebellion as basically a bunch of glorified tax evaders.
 
I'm sure glad these guys didn't say what today's parties are saying.
.
Constitutional-Convention.jpg
They did own slaves and held all men to be free. And they were in all likelihood, ornery elitist white males that didn't like taxes. The crown spent a lot of money defending the colonies from the French and they where within their rights to ask to be repaid, so the American rebellion as basically a bunch of glorified tax evaders.
 
The Electoral College is working perfectly and as intended.

No, it isn't. When it gives you bad presidents that the people didn't want, it isn't working at all.

As for the rest, good point. Let's do something about guns involved in committing crimes. So far you haven't offered a plan to do that though, you've only said let's take guns away from honest citizens, not the criminals. So how are you proposing to take guns away from the criminals? I even started a thread to ask leftists what your plan is and you all had nothing. You just kept saying let's take guns away from non-criminals:

again, if the non-criminals (responsible for 80% of gun deaths) don't have guns, then the criminals won't have access, either.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT!!!
 
Wrong... the biggest growth sectors in gun ownership are women and minorities...for self defense.... notice that they are the two groups that are most victimized by democrat men and democrat policies...

No, spoogey, the biggest growth in gun sales are whackdoodle gun nuts. The number of households with guns on them has been in decline for soem time.

upload_2018-7-9_5-10-35.jpeg


You see, people aren't hunting anymore. Sensible people are realizing a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill someone in the house than a bad guy, so just like the booze industry sells to the drunks, the gun industry sells to the gun nuts.
 
Wrong... the biggest growth sectors in gun ownership are women and minorities...for self defense.... notice that they are the two groups that are most victimized by democrat men and democrat policies...

No, spoogey, the biggest growth in gun sales are whackdoodle gun nuts. The number of households with guns on them has been in decline for soem time.

View attachment 203749

You see, people aren't hunting anymore. Sensible people are realizing a gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill someone in the house than a bad guy, so just like the booze industry sells to the drunks, the gun industry sells to the gun nuts.


So you completely ignore the information I gave you...that shows you are wrong.....good to know.
 
Here is my compromise on my issue...gun control.

I will take no universal background checks, no gun registration, no assualt weapon ban, which is unConstitutional anyway, no magazine limits which are also a stupid thing,

And I will give a 30 year sentence when a gun is used for a real crime, rape, robbery or murder.

I will give a 30 year sentence in addition to the gun sentence if a criminal uses a magazine in a gun to commit a rape, robbery or murder....

There..... my give will actually reduce gun crime and gun murder.... it also has the added advantage of not impacting law abiding gun owners in anyway and does not violate the Constitution......
Not according to gun nuts! They say the criminals do not obey laws no matter what the punishment.


If they are in jail for 30 years we won't have to worry about their ignoring gun laws..... that's the point.
 
I'm sure glad these guys didn't say what today's parties are saying.
.
Constitutional-Convention.jpg
They did own slaves and held all men to be free. And they were in all likelihood, ornery elitist white males that didn't like taxes. The crown spent a lot of money defending the colonies from the French and they where within their rights to ask to be repaid, so the American rebellion as basically a bunch of glorified tax evaders.


Wrong... you don't know the history..... they asked the crown to be represented in Parliament and the crown refused..... and that was just one problem..... as was pointed out by Andrew Klavan and Michael Knowles in their podcasts last week....those men who signed the Declaration of Independence signed it as their own death warrant, and many of them lost everything for the fight for Independence..... and the original draft of the Declaration called for the end of slavery, and called out the Crown for allowing slavery into the colonies.....which had to be changed because the future democrats who owned the slaves in the south bitched about those points.....

You should learn your history.....
 
It's like watching your mom and dad fight. It alienates you from domesticity and leaves you without a "side" to take.
That really is true. It's kind of a helpless feeling, since you can see both sides (whether you agree or not), and you know the fighting accomplishes nothing. So you wait it out and hope they come to their senses soon before much more damage is done.

Or maybe a psychiatrist will walk through the door.

:rolleyes:
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The Electoral College is working perfectly and as intended.

No, it isn't. When it gives you bad presidents that the people didn't want, it isn't working at all.

As for the rest, good point. Let's do something about guns involved in committing crimes. So far you haven't offered a plan to do that though, you've only said let's take guns away from honest citizens, not the criminals. So how are you proposing to take guns away from the criminals? I even started a thread to ask leftists what your plan is and you all had nothing. You just kept saying let's take guns away from non-criminals:

again, if the non-criminals (responsible for 80% of gun deaths) don't have guns, then the criminals won't have access, either.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT!!!


Wrong.....they banned and confiscated guns in Britain, and Island....and their gun crime rate is up 44% in London.....

You lie with every post... you know that gun deaths are primarily suicides...but you have to lie about that because most people think it is gun murder.... and since Japan, China, Korea, all with extreme gun control have higher suicide rates than we do, it shows that guns are not the issue in suicide....... so you have no point.
 
The Electoral College is working perfectly and as intended.

No, it isn't. When it gives you bad presidents that the people didn't want, it isn't working at all

It stopped California from allowing millions of illegal aliens, dead people and voters voting multiple times from stealing the election for Hillary. That's a pretty good record

As for the rest, good point. Let's do something about guns involved in committing crimes. So far you haven't offered a plan to do that though, you've only said let's take guns away from honest citizens, not the criminals. So how are you proposing to take guns away from the criminals? I even started a thread to ask leftists what your plan is and you all had nothing. You just kept saying let's take guns away from non-criminals:

again, if the non-criminals (responsible for 80% of gun deaths) don't have guns, then the criminals won't have access, either.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT!!!

Gotcha, you mean like drugs. We made them illegal, now we don't have them! Prohibition? Nothing but success ending alcohol consumption! Gambling, prostitution? We made them illegal, now they are gone!

Idiot
 
The Electoral College is working perfectly and as intended.

No, it isn't. When it gives you bad presidents that the people didn't want, it isn't working at all.

As for the rest, good point. Let's do something about guns involved in committing crimes. So far you haven't offered a plan to do that though, you've only said let's take guns away from honest citizens, not the criminals. So how are you proposing to take guns away from the criminals? I even started a thread to ask leftists what your plan is and you all had nothing. You just kept saying let's take guns away from non-criminals:

again, if the non-criminals (responsible for 80% of gun deaths) don't have guns, then the criminals won't have access, either.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT!!!


Gun suicide..

Leading Causes of Death | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2016
Gun suicide


22,938


========================

Gun Accidental death.....
2016:

495
==================

Gun murder ( 70-80% of the victims of gun murder are actual criminals, not law abiding people)

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8


2016--

11,004
=======================

Suicide
...even though Japan, Korea, China, all have absolute gun control for law abiding citizens...only criminals and cops can have guns.......and they have higher suicide rates than we do....and our non-gun suicide rate has been higher than our gun suicide rate for 2 years in a row.....

Suicide rates Europe v. United States

Main tables - Eurostat

May, 2014

France....14.13

Finland...14.55

Poland....15.51

Belgium....17.28

Austria....15.26


U.S.....13.00


Gun Accidental Death...

Gun accidents....in a country with over 320,000,000 people...... with 400,000,000 guns in private hands, and over 15,700,000 people carrying guns for self defense..... 495 accidental gun deaths....

Gun murder
Of the 11,004 gun murders in this country, 70-80% of the victims are criminals, engaged in criminal activity or part of the criminal life style....and of the remaining victims....many of them are friends and family of the criminal...caught up in the criminal's lifestyle.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 17 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
 
The Electoral College is working perfectly and as intended.

No, it isn't. When it gives you bad presidents that the people didn't want, it isn't working at all.

As for the rest, good point. Let's do something about guns involved in committing crimes. So far you haven't offered a plan to do that though, you've only said let's take guns away from honest citizens, not the criminals. So how are you proposing to take guns away from the criminals? I even started a thread to ask leftists what your plan is and you all had nothing. You just kept saying let's take guns away from non-criminals:

again, if the non-criminals (responsible for 80% of gun deaths) don't have guns, then the criminals won't have access, either.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT!!!

Suicide has nothing to do with guns......

democrats letting violent repeat offenders out of jail has everything to do with gun murder....not law abiding gun owners who own and carry guns for self defense...


Fact Check, Gun Control and Suicide



There is no relation between suicide rate and gun ownership rates around the world. According to the 2016 World Health Statistics report, (2) suicide rates in the four countries cited as having restrictive gun control laws have suicide rates that are comparable to that in the U. S.: Australia, 11.6, Canada, 11.4, France, 15.8, UK, 7.0, and USA 13.7 suicides/100,000. By comparison, Japan has among the highest suicide rates in the world, 23.1/100,000, but gun ownership is extremely rare, 0.6 guns/100 people.

Suicide is a mental health issue. If guns are not available other means are used. Poisoning, in fact, is the most common method of suicide for U. S. females according to the Washington Post (34 % of suicides), and suffocation the second most common method for males (27%).

Secondly, gun ownership rates in France and Canada are not low, as is implied in the Post article. The rate of gun ownership in the U. S. is indeed high at 88.8 guns/100 residents, but gun ownership rates are also among the world’s highest in the other countries cited. Gun ownership rates in these countries are are as follows: Australia, 15, Canada, 30.8, France, 31.2, and UK 6.2 per 100 residents. (3,4) Gun ownership rates in Saudia Arabia are comparable to that in Canada and France, with 37.8 guns per 100 Saudi residents, yet the lowest suicide rate in the world is in Saudia Arabia (0.3 suicides per 100,000).

Third, recent statistics in the state of Florida show that nearly one third of the guns used in suicides are obtained illegally, putting these firearm deaths beyond control through gun laws.(5)

Fourth, the primary factors affecting suicide rates are personal stresses, cultural, economic, religious factors and demographics. According to the WHO statistics, the highest rates of suicide in the world are in the Republic of Korea, with 36.8 suicides per 100,000, but India, Japan, Russia, and Hungary all have rates above 20 per 100,000; roughly twice as high as the U.S. and the four countries that are the basis for the Post’s calculation that gun control would reduce U.S. suicide rates by 20 to 38 percent. Lebanon, Oman, and Iraq all have suicide rates below 1.1 per 100,000 people--less than 1/10 the suicide rate in the U. S., and Afghanistan, Algeria, Jamaica, Haiti, and Egypt have low suicide rates that are below 4 per 100,000 in contrast to 13.7 suicides/100,000 in the U. S.
 
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The Electoral College is working perfectly and as intended.

No, it isn't. When it gives you bad presidents that the people didn't want, it isn't working at all.

As for the rest, good point. Let's do something about guns involved in committing crimes. So far you haven't offered a plan to do that though, you've only said let's take guns away from honest citizens, not the criminals. So how are you proposing to take guns away from the criminals? I even started a thread to ask leftists what your plan is and you all had nothing. You just kept saying let's take guns away from non-criminals:

again, if the non-criminals (responsible for 80% of gun deaths) don't have guns, then the criminals won't have access, either.

THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS FIGURED THIS OUT!!!


Wrong.....they banned and confiscated guns in Britain, and Island....and their gun crime rate is up 44% in London.....

You lie with every post... you know that gun deaths are primarily suicides...but you have to lie about that because most people think it is gun murder.... and since Japan, China, Korea, all with extreme gun control have higher suicide rates than we do, it shows that guns are not the issue in suicide....... so you have no point.

Joe lives in a post-fact world
 
I agree completely that the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left (as compared to actual liberals) are prepared to impose more and more restrictions on rights, and I often wonder how far they would go if given enough latitude.
And there you go again blaming both sides, er.... er.... wait a minute you are only blaming the Left. Why didn't you point out that the Right wants to insert the law and a judge between a woman and her doctor, mister both sides do it???
I made one (1) specific comment in specific response to one (1) specific point within one (1) specific context.

Wow, pretty much anything I say can make you lose your shit. Too funny. I am all-powerful.
.
 
I agree completely that the illiberal, authoritarian Regressive Left (as compared to actual liberals) are prepared to impose more and more restrictions on rights, and I often wonder how far they would go if given enough latitude.
And there you go again blaming both sides, er.... er.... wait a minute you are only blaming the Left. Why didn't you point out that the Right wants to insert the law and a judge between a woman and her doctor, mister both sides do it???
I made one (1) specific comment in specific response to one (1) specific point within one (1) specific context.

Wow, pretty much anything I say can make you lose your shit. Too funny. I am all-powerful.
.

You go through the whole thread criticizing both sides. You make one statement against the left for something they clearly do and Ed says you only blame one side. Typical left. They're like the traditional Israel, if you're 1% against us, you're 100% against us. If you're 50/50, that makes you the devil's evil brother
 

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