We Could have "Free College"

[DGS49]

Speaking of my own home state of Pennsylvania, there is a crisis in the state colleges and state-related universities with dropping enrollment, and the usual public-sector inability to rationally address this predictable phenomenon (in the private sector, there would simply be a "reorganization," a lot of layoffs, and everyone would move on with their lives). The reason, of course, is the reassessment by cogent humans of the actual cost of a college education (i.e., assuming a ton of debt), versus the likely value of that degree (assuming that it will be obtained, which is not a "slam dunk"), with many now concluding that it is simply not "worth it."

But that is not the point of this thread.

Consider: It would be possible in essentially every state for the state education department to provide "free" college to a sizeable number of graduating high-school seniors every year. And I'm not talking about scholarships or grants or forgivable loans or anything like that. I'm talking about just saying to a group of seniors, "You can go for free. Tuition, books, lodgings, everything is covered. You don't have to pay." This "free" schooling would be provided to the top X% of graduating seniors, based entirely on academic merit. The top students don't have to pay. Period. And the state colleges where these elite students would enroll would surely set up "scholars" programs where they could thrive in a challenging environment and achieve all that they would be capable of. In fact, the states would probably designate one of two state schools for the program, so that the elite students could be congregated in a couple select institutions.

Furthermore, I have no doubt that the taxpayers, once it was explained to them how the scholarships would be granted, would be all-in to pay for it. How could you oppose a program that facilitates the Success of the Best and the Brightest?

But there is a Rock-of-Gibraltar-sized obstacle to even proposing this reasonable and rational plan. And that obstacle is the inability of "minorities" to compete, academically.

There is absolutely no question that as soon as such a program would be proposed, the do-gooders would DEMAND that a certain percentage of the "free" slots be reserved for "minorities," and that every conceivable effort would be made to prevent the evaluation criteria from focusing on TEST SCORES, because those can't be manipulated easily. But using test scores would be an absolute requirement because the competing students would be from a large combination of public schools, private schools, parochial schools, charter schools, and home schools. And with the inevitable "set-asides," the program becomes a giant cluster-fuck and nobody wants to fund it anymore.

But an interesting side issue would be: The top X percent of students would be dominated by "rich kids," most of whom really wouldn't need any help with college costs. Why? Because intelligence is inherited, and if they are brilliant and accomplished, then the likelihood is that their parents would also be high achievers.

It's just a daydream anyway. To me, it is irritating when the Bernie Sanders-types go on and on about how we should have "free college." I'm fine with free (taxpayer funded) college, but I don't want to have my tax dollars spent on people who don't belong in college, or people majoring in anything with the word, "Studies."

 

[fncceo]

A 'free' college degree ... worth every penny you paid.

 

[eflatminor]

In order for your little plan to work, do you have to take money by force from me and others?

Thought so. Another idea so darn good, it has to be mandatory.

Yea, pass.

 

[DGS49]

Many Americans cite Germany as a country where college tuition is "free" to qualifying students. But what they tend to ignore is that German colleges are extremely merit-based in their admission policies, and those attending the "free" German universities are generally superior students.

And BTW, there ain't no "diversity" requirement. Only those who are good enough get in.

I like it.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Can't have that as it would make conservatism and the idea of fucking over the little guy look retarded. Can't be having that.

 

[Moonglow]

What ever happened to working your way through college? Is that to hard to handle for today's traditional college student?

 

[Moonglow]

Can't have that as it would make conservatism and the idea of fucking over the little guy look retarded. Can't be having that.

The whole ideal is that those on top don't want to give those on the bottom a helping hand, why they may succeed and expect to be treated as an equal...I'm not arrogant, why these people of a lower class could be as American as we, if their relations came over on the Mayflower..

 

[ScienceRocks]

What ever happened to working your way through college? Is that to hard to handle for today's traditional college student?

Why? Isn't education and leading in most fields worth the price.

 

[Meane]

A 'free' college degree ... worth every penny you paid.

There are free universities in this world that produce just as good doctors and lawyers as the other ones.

 

[Meane]

In order for your little plan to work, do you have to take money by force from me and others?

Thought so. Another idea so darn good, it has to be mandatory.

Yea, pass.

The money you've so far paid will be now given to random companies you never heard if so they'd stay in America. Well thought through.. Oh wait, you didn't .

 

[fncceo]

There are free universities in this world

There isn't a 'Free University' any where on this planet ... SOMEONE always pays.

 

[eflatminor]

In order for your little plan to work, do you have to take money by force from me and others?

Thought so. Another idea so darn good, it has to be mandatory.

Yea, pass.

The money you've so far paid will be now given to random companies you never heard if so they'd stay in America. Well thought through.. Oh wait, you didn't .

You've attacked a straw man. I never advanced an argument having anything to do with how taxes are spent.

You also implied that I support the notion of tax incentives for corporations. I do not.

I stand against the notion of government forcibly redistributing wealth for that which should be voluntary. The recipient of the stolen loot irrelevant to the point of my post.

 

[eflatminor]

Many Americans cite Germany as a country where college tuition is "free" to qualifying students. But what they tend to ignore is that German colleges are extremely merit-based in their admission policies, and those attending the "free" German universities are generally superior students.

And BTW, there ain't no "diversity" requirement. Only those who are good enough get in.

I like it.

Start a charity for gifted student. I'll contribute.

Your idea should not require enforcement by armed government agents in order for it to work.

 

[Old Rocks]

What ever happened to working your way through college? Is that to hard to handle for today's traditional college student?

As someone that has been attending college off and on for the last five years, when my work schedule allows it, yes, it is too hard. The cost of renting a place to live, and feeding yourself, as well as paying for an education is simply too much for most students. They either have to have well to do parents, or go very deeply in debt. The cost of college is simply too high. Even Community Colleges here charge over $100 a credit. And then there are books. Try doing that on minimum wage. I can do it because I have an upper middle class income.

 

[Moonglow]

What ever happened to working your way through college? Is that to hard to handle for today's traditional college student?

As someone that has been attending college off and on for the last five years, when my work schedule allows it, yes, it is too hard. The cost of renting a place to live, and feeding yourself, as well as paying for an education is simply too much for most students. They either have to have well to do parents, or go very deeply in debt. The cost of college is simply too high. Even Community Colleges here charge over $100 a credit. And then there are books. Try doing that on minimum wage. I can do it because I have an upper middle class income.

I had jobs that paid over the min. wage since 17, I don't understand why others don't..The hardest time was when I was in the Army going to night classes, but if I wasn't doing night classes I had a moonlighting job...

 

[baileyn45]

What ever happened to working your way through college? Is that to hard to handle for today's traditional college student?

I'll echo others who've noted that the costs of higher education have gotten entirely out of control.

The sad part is it isn't entirely necessary. A good friend of mine is the dean of admissions at a medical school. Year after year I hear him lament that when the budget is released he sees large increases in every aspect except one, instruction. He's the first person I heard refer to today's universities as "country club living" He cites budget increases in everything from cafeteria "gourmet" selections to masseurs. And this is at a state school.

When I was in college I survived on mac-n-cheese and all you can eat salad bars, The only back rubs I got were from a cute little brown eyed girl and that usually cost me 2 back rubs in return.

 

[flacaltenn]

Speaking of my own home state of Pennsylvania, there is a crisis in the state colleges and state-related universities with dropping enrollment, and the usual public-sector inability to rationally address this predictable phenomenon (in the private sector, there would simply be a "reorganization," a lot of layoffs, and everyone would move on with their lives). The reason, of course, is the reassessment by cogent humans of the actual cost of a college education (i.e., assuming a ton of debt), versus the likely value of that degree (assuming that it will be obtained, which is not a "slam dunk"), with many now concluding that it is simply not "worth it."

But that is not the point of this thread.

Consider: It would be possible in essentially every state for the state education department to provide "free" college to a sizeable number of graduating high-school seniors every year. And I'm not talking about scholarships or grants or forgivable loans or anything like that. I'm talking about just saying to a group of seniors, "You can go for free. Tuition, books, lodgings, everything is covered. You don't have to pay." This "free" schooling would be provided to the top X% of graduating seniors, based entirely on academic merit. The top students don't have to pay. Period. And the state colleges where these elite students would enroll would surely set up "scholars" programs where they could thrive in a challenging environment and achieve all that they would be capable of. In fact, the states would probably designate one of two state schools for the program, so that the elite students could be congregated in a couple select institutions.

Furthermore, I have no doubt that the taxpayers, once it was explained to them how the scholarships would be granted, would be all-in to pay for it. How could you oppose a program that facilitates the Success of the Best and the Brightest?

But there is a Rock-of-Gibraltar-sized obstacle to even proposing this reasonable and rational plan. And that obstacle is the inability of "minorities" to compete, academically.

There is absolutely no question that as soon as such a program would be proposed, the do-gooders would DEMAND that a certain percentage of the "free" slots be reserved for "minorities," and that every conceivable effort would be made to prevent the evaluation criteria from focusing on TEST SCORES, because those can't be manipulated easily. But using test scores would be an absolute requirement because the competing students would be from a large combination of public schools, private schools, parochial schools, charter schools, and home schools. And with the inevitable "set-asides," the program becomes a giant cluster-fuck and nobody wants to fund it anymore.

But an interesting side issue would be: The top X percent of students would be dominated by "rich kids," most of whom really wouldn't need any help with college costs. Why? Because intelligence is inherited, and if they are brilliant and accomplished, then the likelihood is that their parents would also be high achievers.

It's just a daydream anyway. To me, it is irritating when the Bernie Sanders-types go on and on about how we should have "free college." I'm fine with free (taxpayer funded) college, but I don't want to have my tax dollars spent on people who don't belong in college, or people majoring in anything with the word, "Studies."

The desired effect is "free education". Not NECESSARILY an expensive college. Most undergrad programs are pretty much the same. They fluff up the degree titles and programs to attract kids who've been "sold" on certain "hot-button" fields of study. But what's needed is to prepare H.S. kids for 21st century jobs. Since the jobs now that make a living require additional education/training..

Tennessee stepped up to be one of the first to do that. Now any Tenn student with a B avg from H.S. can attend Community College or Vocation schools for free. For 2 years. WHICH can be parlayed into credits should they DECIDE to go to a "real college" later. That's not difficult. Cali USED to do it before they go insolvent. Idea was so great -- Obama STOLE it and announced it IN TENN a couple months later. But that idea does not require FEDERAL involvement. Lottery money literally pays for it. Along with public/private partnerships for adding curriculum to the Comm Colleges/Vocational schools.

It's a REQUIREMENT to keep training and learning after H.S. now. And that need can be fixed without EVERYBODY getting into debt.