Well Now Isn't This Just Too Convenient?

[DiveCon]

http://intelligence.senate.gov/pdfs/1116.pdf
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-- Statements and implications by the President and Secretary of State suggesting that Iraq and al-Qa'ida had a partnership, or that Iraq had provided al-Qa'ida with weapons training, were not substantiated by the intelligence.
-- Statements by the President and the Vice President indicating that Saddam Hussein was prepared to give weapons of mass destruction to terrorist groups for attacks against the United States were contradicted by available intelligence information.

-- Statements by President Bush and Vice President Cheney regarding the postwar situation in Iraq, in terms of the political, security, and economic, did not reflect the concerns and uncertainties expressed in the intelligence products.

-- Statements by the President and Vice President prior to the October 2002 National Intelligence Estimate regarding Iraq's chemical weapons production capability and activities did not reflect the intelligence community's uncertainties as to whether such production was ongoing.

-- The Secretary of Defense's statement that the Iraqi government operated underground WMD facilities that were not vulnerable to conventional airstrikes because they were underground and deeply buried was not substantiated by available intelligence information.

-- The Intelligence Community did not confirm that Muhammad Atta met an Iraqi intelligence officer in Prague in 2001 as the Vice President repeatedly claimed.

hint, that doesnt say it was either wrong or a lie
you are a fucking MORON

 

[DiveCon]

Executive Summary



The disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives:

Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected.

Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted.

Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems.

Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data.

Executive summary seems to be very generic, and probably one of your favorite sites. Who is Executive Summary? I asked for a non partisan hack site.
Also, I sent you a contact message to ask about what page that Intelligence report was on that you posted. You were on at the time I sent it, and no response. I looked it over 2 times and couldn't find the page. In fact the way it was written wasn't even close to the way Intelligence report was written. So I can only surmize that you lied, and were disingenuous with these two posts. I asked for a non partisan hack site. Probably you should take them down.

Once again you need to change your handle, from Truthmatters.

its a .gov site
but its cherry pickin it
LOL

 

[DiveCon]

If you dont know he lied us into war than your an idiot.

PROVE he lied. and if he did, it means Clinton lied as well. He thought Saddam had weapons....hence the sanctions on the country that led to 500,000 deaths that you like to forget about.

Oh please, Clinton "I never had sex with that woman," NEVER told the truth. You can't defend one man's lies by pointing out another man's lies.

and i suppose all those other democrats lied too, right?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Bush hits worst approval rating quarter: The Swamp

gander at the chart.

The left stayed with him until the lies about Iraq started coming out.

Once again I must ask just what were the lies that Bush stated? Please once again show me a site that isn't a left wing hack site that states Bush lied. Pelosi and Reid sure couldn't prove it, and if they couldn't, I don't know how you did. Once again if you can't put up, please just shut up about it.
Once again I'm just tired of the constant whining from you partisan hacks that can't back up what they say.

Were you not paying attention at the time? You don't remember him saying anything about the WMDs that were NEVER found? The reason we went into Iraq was because Bush claimed they had WMDs. Once in, and they didn't find it, suddenly it was all about terrorism. And of course, that's when he pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia.

Wrong again, WMD's were not THE reason we went to Iraq. And in fact NO ONE claimed he had any that could be used against the US. However on the point, EVERYONE, INCLUDING the CLINTON Administration believed Saddam had them. EVERYBODY. I believe the Germans even believed that he was 2 years away from having a nuclear device.

 

[DiveCon]

Once again I must ask just what were the lies that Bush stated? Please once again show me a site that isn't a left wing hack site that states Bush lied. Pelosi and Reid sure couldn't prove it, and if they couldn't, I don't know how you did. Once again if you can't put up, please just shut up about it.
Once again I'm just tired of the constant whining from you partisan hacks that can't back up what they say.

Were you not paying attention at the time? You don't remember him saying anything about the WMDs that were NEVER found? The reason we went into Iraq was because Bush claimed they had WMDs. Once in, and they didn't find it, suddenly it was all about terrorism. And of course, that's when he pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia.

Wrong again, WMD's were not THE reason we went to Iraq. And in fact NO ONE claimed he had any that could be used against the US. However on the point, EVERYONE, INCLUDING the CLINTON Administration believed Saddam had them. EVERYBODY. I believe the Germans even believed that he was 2 years away from having a nuclear device.

yeah, every country thought he had them, including France

 

[elvis]

If you dont know he lied us into war than your an idiot.

PROVE he lied. and if he did, it means Clinton lied as well. He thought Saddam had weapons....hence the sanctions on the country that led to 500,000 deaths that you like to forget about.

Oh please, Clinton "I never had sex with that woman," NEVER told the truth. You can't defend one man's lies by pointing out another man's lies.

I think you misunderstand. Clinton claimed Saddam had WMD's. He bombed Iraq and his sanctions led to the deaths of 500,000 people, many of which were children.

I wanted Truthdoesn't matter to PROVE that Bush lied and then admit that Clinton must have lied about WMD's, as well. Course, she won't even admit that clinton committed perjury, so screw it.

 

[elvis]

Were you not paying attention at the time? You don't remember him saying anything about the WMDs that were NEVER found? The reason we went into Iraq was because Bush claimed they had WMDs. Once in, and they didn't find it, suddenly it was all about terrorism. And of course, that's when he pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia.

Wrong again, WMD's were not THE reason we went to Iraq. And in fact NO ONE claimed he had any that could be used against the US. However on the point, EVERYONE, INCLUDING the CLINTON Administration believed Saddam had them. EVERYBODY. I believe the Germans even believed that he was 2 years away from having a nuclear device.

yeah, every country thought he had them, including France

they did, but Saddam owed them about 10 billion dollars worth of oil, so it was in their best interest to have Saddam remain in power.

 

[Peejay]

Not everyone thought Iraq had those weapons. A lot of people speculated. The inspectors on the ground repeatedly came up empty throughout both the Clinton and Bush admins. There never was any evidence that he had any, simply because he did not.

There are a few things that still make the Iraq war supporters just look dumb. I even had people opposed to the war tell me that even though they opposed the war, I must be dumb if I thought he didn't have weapons. But really, it didn't take a genius to figure out we were being fed a bunch of shit. Or maybe it did.

We were told that Saddam was a mad man.

A mad man with WMDs.

A mad man that posed a threat to us and his neghbors.

But somehow, this mad man, with WMDs, allowed us to bomb him, with the help of his neighbors, for 12 years, relentlessly. And he never unleashed a single WMD. On anyone. And he certainly had the history to do it. But he didn't. So, either:

A. He wasn't mad after all.

or

B. He didn't have any weapons.

or

C. He deserved a medal for demonstrating the most amazing restraint of a mad man in history.

All of those facts we were given just couldn't be true, at the same time. It didn't add up then, it doesn't add up now. But people bought it, on both sides of the aisle.

Now, the only argument that really adds up, and I suspected then, as I do now, is that we chose to use someone else's country and someone else's casualties to stage this battle. There was a history of unfinished business and a prospect of resources to pay for the battle.

But you could never sell that as fair or just to the American people, whether it was thought to be in our best interest or not. So, we used lies. Happens ALL THE TIME.

 

[Peejay]

Oh yeah, I forgot the other thing that was always so stoooopid about the Iraq war arguments: PROVE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING. That was what we were asking. Rather than provide proof, we asked someone to prove a negative. It's impossible. You can't prove you don't have something.

Anyone here is welcome to prove to me that you don't have a pink unicorn, while I insist you do.

Major, and basic flaw of logic and reason.

 

[DiveCon]

Not everyone thought Iraq had those weapons. A lot of people speculated. The inspectors on the ground repeatedly came up empty throughout both the Clinton and Bush admins. There never was any evidence that he had any, simply because he did not.

There are a few things that still make the Iraq war supporters just look dumb. I even had people opposed to the war tell me that even though they opposed the war, I must be dumb if I thought he didn't have weapons. But really, it didn't take a genius to figure out we were being fed a bunch of shit. Or maybe it did.

We were told that Saddam was a mad man.

A mad man with WMDs.

A mad man that posed a threat to us and his neghbors.

But somehow, this mad man, with WMDs, allowed us to bomb him, with the help of his neighbors, for 12 years, relentlessly. And he never unleashed a single WMD. On anyone. And he certainly had the history to do it. But he didn't. So, either:

A. He wasn't mad after all.

or

B. He didn't have any weapons.

or

C. He deserved a medal for demonstrating the most amazing restraint of a mad man in history.

All of those facts we were given just couldn't be true, at the same time. It didn't add up then, it doesn't add up now. But people bought it, on both sides of the aisle.

Now, the only argument that really adds up, and I suspected then, as I do now, is that we chose to use someone else's country and someone else's casualties to stage this battle. There was a history of unfinished business and a prospect of resources to pay for the battle.

But you could never sell that as fair or just to the American people, whether it was thought to be in our best interest or not. So, we used lies. Happens ALL THE TIME.

he WAS a mad man, he didnt have the stockpiles everyone thought he had
he DID have programs that he was planing on restarting as soon as the sanctions expired, which was coming soon

 

[DiveCon]

Oh yeah, I forgot the other thing that was always so stoooopid about the Iraq war arguments: PROVE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING. That was what we were asking. Rather than provide proof, we asked someone to prove a negative. It's impossible. You can't prove you don't have something.

Anyone here is welcome to prove to me that you don't have a pink unicorn, while I insist you do.

Major, and basic flaw of logic and reason.

wrong, he admitted he had things, he was supposed to prove he was destroying them
you got it all WRONG

so, by your logic, have i ever claimed to have a pink unicorn?
if not, i just proved i dont have one

 

[Ravi]

Oh yeah, I forgot the other thing that was always so stoooopid about the Iraq war arguments: PROVE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING. That was what we were asking. Rather than provide proof, we asked someone to prove a negative. It's impossible. You can't prove you don't have something.

Anyone here is welcome to prove to me that you don't have a pink unicorn, while I insist you do.

Major, and basic flaw of logic and reason.

It is a lot easier to impose sanctions and keep a country under control if you convince the world they are the boogyman. That's basically what Clinton did with Saddam. Sadly, George never understood the concept of bluffing.

 

[DiveCon]

Oh yeah, I forgot the other thing that was always so stoooopid about the Iraq war arguments: PROVE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING. That was what we were asking. Rather than provide proof, we asked someone to prove a negative. It's impossible. You can't prove you don't have something.

Anyone here is welcome to prove to me that you don't have a pink unicorn, while I insist you do.

Major, and basic flaw of logic and reason.

It is a lot easier to impose sanctions and keep a country under control if you convince the world they are the boogyman. That's basically what Clinton did with Saddam. Sadly, George never understood the concept of bluffing.

yeah, smart man that saddam, he bluffed his way into a noose

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Oh yeah, I forgot the other thing that was always so stoooopid about the Iraq war arguments: PROVE YOU DON'T HAVE SOMETHING. That was what we were asking. Rather than provide proof, we asked someone to prove a negative. It's impossible. You can't prove you don't have something.

Anyone here is welcome to prove to me that you don't have a pink unicorn, while I insist you do.

Major, and basic flaw of logic and reason.

It is a lot easier to impose sanctions and keep a country under control if you convince the world they are the boogyman. That's basically what Clinton did with Saddam. Sadly, George never understood the concept of bluffing.

You are a FUCKING RETARD.

 

[Ravi]

I wasn't talking about Saddam bluffing, though of course he was as well. I was talking about the US pretending Saddam had more power than he did...that made it easier to keep world opinion against him and that made it easier to keep him in line. But Dubya didn't understand that, or else he just wanted to start a useless war.

 

[DiveCon]

I wasn't talking about Saddam bluffing, though of course he was as well. I was talking about the US pretending Saddam had more power than he did...that made it easier to keep world opinion against him and that made it easier to keep him in line. But Dubya didn't understand that, or else he just wanted to start a useless war.

actually the US wasnt pretending, we actually thought Saddam had those massive stockpiles of at least chemical weapons
you dont think they had the troops go in with chem gear on for the hell of it, do you?


again, EVERYONE thought Saddam had the weapons, even many of his generals
while they knew THEY didnt have any of them, they all believed that the other guys DID

 

[strollingbones]

what an irony...saddam was given the key to a major us city...know which one....

what country used their veto power to stop the un from taking moves against saddam after the gassing of the kurds...i will give you a hint...the president was g bush ..the old one..not the w....

so as long as saddam was gassing other muslims we didnt give a shit..too late to give a shit now...

as for wmd....if he had had them...he would have used them...as simple as that....better to overestimate your enemies fighting power than to underestimated it...

 

[Dr Grump]

nagin letting HUNDREDS of buses SIT that could have been used to EVACUATE people, or the utter INCOMPETENCE of the governor.

You have to have people who can drive the bastards...

 

[strollingbones]

they are autos now grump...not that damn hard to drive..hell the wee ones drive them when the driver collapases....

 

[RetiredGySgt]

nagin letting HUNDREDS of buses SIT that could have been used to EVACUATE people, or the utter INCOMPETENCE of the governor.

You have to have people who can drive the bastards...

Anyone could drive them, most school districts used to hire as young as 17 to drive their busses, Moms are another favorite bus driver.