Well Now Isn't This Just Too Convenient?

[Truthmatters]

Executive Summary



The disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives:

Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected.

Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted.

Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems.

Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data.

Executive summary seems to be very generic, and probably one of your favorite sites. Who is Executive Summary? I asked for a non partisan hack site.
Also, I sent you a contact message to ask about what page that Intelligence report was on that you posted. You were on at the time I sent it, and no response. I looked it over 2 times and couldn't find the page. In fact the way it was written wasn't even close to the way Intelligence report was written. So I can only surmize that you lied, and were disingenuous with these two posts. I asked for a non partisan hack site. Probably you should take them down.

Once again you need to change your handle, from Truthmatters.

Addressing voting rights issues has been a core responsibility for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights since the Commission was founded in 1957. The Commission has broad authority over voting rights. It has general jurisdiction to examine allegations regarding the right of U.S. citizens to vote and to have their votes counted. These allegations may include, but are not limited to, allegations of discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, age, disability, or national origin.

Pursuant to its authority, and fulfilling its obligations, members of the Commission staff conducted a preliminary investigation and discovered widespread allegations of voter disenfranchisement in Florida in the 2000 presidential election. The Commissioners voted unanimously to conduct an extensive public investigation into these allegations of voting irregularities. Toward that end, the Commission held three days of hearings in Miami and Tallahassee and, using its subpoena powers, collected more than 30 hours of testimony from more than 100 witnesses—all taken under oath—and reviewed more than 118,000 pages of pertinent documents.

 

[Peejay]

Not everyone thought Iraq had those weapons. A lot of people speculated. The inspectors on the ground repeatedly came up empty throughout both the Clinton and Bush admins. There never was any evidence that he had any, simply because he did not.

There are a few things that still make the Iraq war supporters just look dumb. I even had people opposed to the war tell me that even though they opposed the war, I must be dumb if I thought he didn't have weapons. But really, it didn't take a genius to figure out we were being fed a bunch of shit. Or maybe it did.

We were told that Saddam was a mad man.

A mad man with WMDs.

A mad man that posed a threat to us and his neghbors.

But somehow, this mad man, with WMDs, allowed us to bomb him, with the help of his neighbors, for 12 years, relentlessly. And he never unleashed a single WMD. On anyone. And he certainly had the history to do it. But he didn't. So, either:

A. He wasn't mad after all.

or

B. He didn't have any weapons.

or

C. He deserved a medal for demonstrating the most amazing restraint of a mad man in history.

All of those facts we were given just couldn't be true, at the same time. It didn't add up then, it doesn't add up now. But people bought it, on both sides of the aisle.

Now, the only argument that really adds up, and I suspected then, as I do now, is that we chose to use someone else's country and someone else's casualties to stage this battle. There was a history of unfinished business and a prospect of resources to pay for the battle.

But you could never sell that as fair or just to the American people, whether it was thought to be in our best interest or not. So, we used lies. Happens ALL THE TIME.

he WAS a mad man, he didnt have the stockpiles everyone thought he had
he DID have programs that he was planing on restarting as soon as the sanctions expired, which was coming soon

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

 

[Meister]

Executive Summary



The disenfranchisement of Florida’s voters fell most harshly on the shoulders of black voters. The magnitude of the impact can be seen from any of several perspectives:

Statewide, based upon county-level statistical estimates, black voters were nearly 10 times more likely than nonblack voters to have their ballots rejected.

Estimates indicate that approximately 14.4 percent of Florida’s black voters cast ballots that were rejected. This compares with approximately 1.6 percent of nonblack Florida voters who did not have their presidential votes counted.

Statistical analysis shows that the disparity in ballot spoilage rates—i.e., ballots cast but not counted—between black and nonblack voters is not the result of education or literacy differences. This conclusion is supported by Governor Jeb Bush’s Select Task Force on Election Procedures, Standards and Technology, which found that error rates stemming from uneducated, uninformed, or disinterested voters account for less than 1 percent of the problems.

Approximately 11 percent of Florida voters were African American; however, African Americans cast about 54 percent of the 180,000 spoiled ballots in Florida during the November 2000 election based on estimates derived from county-level data. These statewide estimates were corroborated by the results in several counties based on actual precinct data.

Executive summary seems to be very generic, and probably one of your favorite sites. Who is Executive Summary? I asked for a non partisan hack site.
Also, I sent you a contact message to ask about what page that Intelligence report was on that you posted. You were on at the time I sent it, and no response. I looked it over 2 times and couldn't find the page. In fact the way it was written wasn't even close to the way Intelligence report was written. So I can only surmize that you lied, and were disingenuous with these two posts. I asked for a non partisan hack site. Probably you should take them down.

Once again you need to change your handle, from Truthmatters.

Addressing voting rights issues has been a core responsibility for the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights since the Commission was founded in 1957. The Commission has broad authority over voting rights. It has general jurisdiction to examine allegations regarding the right of U.S. citizens to vote and to have their votes counted. These allegations may include, but are not limited to, allegations of discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, age, disability, or national origin.

Pursuant to its authority, and fulfilling its obligations, members of the Commission staff conducted a preliminary investigation and discovered widespread allegations of voter disenfranchisement in Florida in the 2000 presidential election. The Commissioners voted unanimously to conduct an extensive public investigation into these allegations of voting irregularities. Toward that end, the Commission held three days of hearings in Miami and Tallahassee and, using its subpoena powers, collected more than 30 hours of testimony from more than 100 witnesses—all taken under oath—and reviewed more than 118,000 pages of pertinent documents.

Truth....these things were going on long before the 2000 election. The voting machines hadn't changed, and I don't know what's going on with the blacks...but it wasn't just inherent with the 2000 election either. For a person to steal an election...well, he didn't steal it. It seems if the allegations are true, they have been going on for a very long time. They did do recounts of the counties which were requested by both Gore, and Bush...it was found that the vote still would have went to Bush.

 

[elvis]

Not everyone thought Iraq had those weapons. A lot of people speculated. The inspectors on the ground repeatedly came up empty throughout both the Clinton and Bush admins. There never was any evidence that he had any, simply because he did not.

There are a few things that still make the Iraq war supporters just look dumb. I even had people opposed to the war tell me that even though they opposed the war, I must be dumb if I thought he didn't have weapons. But really, it didn't take a genius to figure out we were being fed a bunch of shit. Or maybe it did.

We were told that Saddam was a mad man.

A mad man with WMDs.

A mad man that posed a threat to us and his neghbors.

But somehow, this mad man, with WMDs, allowed us to bomb him, with the help of his neighbors, for 12 years, relentlessly. And he never unleashed a single WMD. On anyone. And he certainly had the history to do it. But he didn't. So, either:

A. He wasn't mad after all.

or

B. He didn't have any weapons.

or

C. He deserved a medal for demonstrating the most amazing restraint of a mad man in history.

All of those facts we were given just couldn't be true, at the same time. It didn't add up then, it doesn't add up now. But people bought it, on both sides of the aisle.

Now, the only argument that really adds up, and I suspected then, as I do now, is that we chose to use someone else's country and someone else's casualties to stage this battle. There was a history of unfinished business and a prospect of resources to pay for the battle.

But you could never sell that as fair or just to the American people, whether it was thought to be in our best interest or not. So, we used lies. Happens ALL THE TIME.

he WAS a mad man, he didnt have the stockpiles everyone thought he had
he DID have programs that he was planing on restarting as soon as the sanctions expired, which was coming soon

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

Those sanctions led to half a million Iraqi deaths. Funny how you forget to mention that.

 

[Peejay]

he WAS a mad man, he didnt have the stockpiles everyone thought he had
he DID have programs that he was planing on restarting as soon as the sanctions expired, which was coming soon

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

Those sanctions led to half a million Iraqi deaths. Funny how you forget to mention that.

I wouldn't dispute that. If we can kill so many with sanctions, just seems to further prove that war was not needed. We could have just continued with sanctions. Seeing how they seemed to be so effective.

 

[belboz]

I can't believe that....

 

[DiveCon]

Not everyone thought Iraq had those weapons. A lot of people speculated. The inspectors on the ground repeatedly came up empty throughout both the Clinton and Bush admins. There never was any evidence that he had any, simply because he did not.

There are a few things that still make the Iraq war supporters just look dumb. I even had people opposed to the war tell me that even though they opposed the war, I must be dumb if I thought he didn't have weapons. But really, it didn't take a genius to figure out we were being fed a bunch of shit. Or maybe it did.

We were told that Saddam was a mad man.

A mad man with WMDs.

A mad man that posed a threat to us and his neghbors.

But somehow, this mad man, with WMDs, allowed us to bomb him, with the help of his neighbors, for 12 years, relentlessly. And he never unleashed a single WMD. On anyone. And he certainly had the history to do it. But he didn't. So, either:

A. He wasn't mad after all.

or

B. He didn't have any weapons.

or

C. He deserved a medal for demonstrating the most amazing restraint of a mad man in history.

All of those facts we were given just couldn't be true, at the same time. It didn't add up then, it doesn't add up now. But people bought it, on both sides of the aisle.

Now, the only argument that really adds up, and I suspected then, as I do now, is that we chose to use someone else's country and someone else's casualties to stage this battle. There was a history of unfinished business and a prospect of resources to pay for the battle.

But you could never sell that as fair or just to the American people, whether it was thought to be in our best interest or not. So, we used lies. Happens ALL THE TIME.

he WAS a mad man, he didnt have the stockpiles everyone thought he had
he DID have programs that he was planing on restarting as soon as the sanctions expired, which was coming soon

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

WRONG, he DID have WMD, just not the stockpiles everyone thought he had
and the sanctions were due to expire and the French, RUssians and Chinese had already said they were NOT going to continue the sanctions(saddam had bought them off)

so, you didnt have a situation like you think there was
you are continually WRONG

 

[Peejay]

he WAS a mad man, he didnt have the stockpiles everyone thought he had
he DID have programs that he was planing on restarting as soon as the sanctions expired, which was coming soon

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

WRONG, he DID have WMD, just not the stockpiles everyone thought he had
and the sanctions were due to expire and the French, RUssians and Chinese had already said they were NOT going to continue the sanctions(saddam had bought them off)

so, you didnt have a situation like you think there was
you are continually WRONG

Got anything besides hot air to offer ?

 

[DiveCon]

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

WRONG, he DID have WMD, just not the stockpiles everyone thought he had
and the sanctions were due to expire and the French, RUssians and Chinese had already said they were NOT going to continue the sanctions(saddam had bought them off)

so, you didnt have a situation like you think there was
you are continually WRONG

Got anything besides hot air to offer ?

you are the one with nothing but hot air

 

[Truthmatters]

Old decayed useless crap is all they found.


How very sad the truth still escapes you.

 

[elvis]

Ok. So my assesment is right. All of those things were not true, at once. He was mad, so you say, but he had no WMDs.

He was planning, so you say, to restart programs when the sanctions ended. So, sanctions were working and could have been continued. Of course, these sanctions had included periodic bombings over a 12 year period.

Great demonstration of a needless war.

Those sanctions led to half a million Iraqi deaths. Funny how you forget to mention that.

I wouldn't dispute that. If we can kill so many with sanctions, just seems to further prove that war was not needed. We could have just continued with sanctions. Seeing how they seemed to be so effective.

because if the war had been managed correctly, there wouldn't have been anywhere NEAR that many deaths. Two UN officials in a row who were put in charge of the Iraq situation resigned because they said the sanctions were genocidal. Half the 500000 were children.

 

[Yurt]

good lord, the sanctions did not kill anyone, saddam did...

 

[DiveCon]

Old decayed useless crap is all they found.


How very sad the truth still escapes you.

great, so you would have no problem if they stored it in your back yard

 

[DiveCon]

Those sanctions led to half a million Iraqi deaths. Funny how you forget to mention that.

I wouldn't dispute that. If we can kill so many with sanctions, just seems to further prove that war was not needed. We could have just continued with sanctions. Seeing how they seemed to be so effective.

because if the war had been managed correctly, there wouldn't have been anywhere NEAR that many deaths. Two UN officials in a row who were put in charge of the Iraq situation resigned because they said the sanctions were genocidal. Half the 500000 were children.

uh, check iraqbodycount.org

there werent that many Iraqi deaths even though the aftermath of the liberation of Iraq was messed up

 

[elvis]

I wouldn't dispute that. If we can kill so many with sanctions, just seems to further prove that war was not needed. We could have just continued with sanctions. Seeing how they seemed to be so effective.

because if the war had been managed correctly, there wouldn't have been anywhere NEAR that many deaths. Two UN officials in a row who were put in charge of the Iraq situation resigned because they said the sanctions were genocidal. Half the 500000 were children.

uh, check iraqbodycount.org

there werent that many Iraqi deaths even though the aftermath of the liberation of Iraq was messed up

How many were there during the clinton years? My point is if Clinton had overthrown saddam instead of putting sanctions on the country, there could have been fewer deaths.

 

[DiveCon]

because if the war had been managed correctly, there wouldn't have been anywhere NEAR that many deaths. Two UN officials in a row who were put in charge of the Iraq situation resigned because they said the sanctions were genocidal. Half the 500000 were children.

uh, check iraqbodycount.org

there werent that many Iraqi deaths even though the aftermath of the liberation of Iraq was messed up

How many were there during the clinton years? My point is if Clinton had overthrown saddam instead of putting sanctions on the country, there could have been fewer deaths.

actually, no one cared at that time

there was no iraq body count website

and i dont fault Clinton for not finishing it so much as i do GHW Bush for not finishing it

 

[elvis]

uh, check iraqbodycount.org

there werent that many Iraqi deaths even though the aftermath of the liberation of Iraq was messed up

How many were there during the clinton years? My point is if Clinton had overthrown saddam instead of putting sanctions on the country, there could have been fewer deaths.

actually, no one cared at that time

there was no iraq body count website

and i dont fault Clinton for not finishing it so much as i do GHW Bush for not finishing it

interesting how there was no body count website then but there is now.

 

[Tech_Esq]

Just another case of Obama being smarter than the average politician.

These people don't need politicians wasting resources at a time like this.

Are you kidding? This is a continuation of the Obama Doctrine. "I'm not going to disaster areas where white people are dying." He didn't go to Kentucky so why would he go to North Dakota. Outside of being one of the 57 states in the Union, he probably didn't know where it was.

Face it, we know that the TOTUS is smart but we don't know that Obama is smart.

 

[Indiana Oracle]

Ok, Huggy. At least it is clear that you are in high command of the written word. Tip of the hat for having posted the most inane missive I have seen since joining this forum.

It is still way too early to turn in a report card on Obama. Few presidents in our countries history have been handed the flaming crap bag that Bush passed on. He was elected with a clear margin to advance an agenda to make good on.

In regards to a comparison with Katrina I think the defunding of the corps of engineers on the levys and Brownies inept handling of FEMA enter into the discussion.

Obama has chosen people with experience as oposed to putting peoples lives at the mercy of a horse show judge that contibuted to his campaign.

But don't let that slow you down. The contrast you expose with your belated boot licking is welcome.

Wrong, Obama campaigned as a centrist with fiscal responsibility but is governing completely opposite. If he told the truth about what he was actually gonna do during his campaign, no way he wins the election. "Hope", "Change" and whining about Bush (which he's still doing) was his whole campaign, which went unchallenged and folks such as yourself fell for it hook, line and sinker......

I don't know you so I will not assume you are a stinking neo-con christian fascist fear mongering piece of shit traitor that hates Americans so much that he will do anything to help make our president and therefore our country fail. No I won't assume that. But if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

I doubt you paid much attention to what Obama actually promised. You most probably get all your "facts" from Rush Limpdick and that fake Irish Sean Hannity. Oh ya can't forget Man Coulter and that steaming pile Carl Rove.

We probably won't be friends.

 

[Againsheila]

Once again I must ask just what were the lies that Bush stated? Please once again show me a site that isn't a left wing hack site that states Bush lied. Pelosi and Reid sure couldn't prove it, and if they couldn't, I don't know how you did. Once again if you can't put up, please just shut up about it.
Once again I'm just tired of the constant whining from you partisan hacks that can't back up what they say.

Were you not paying attention at the time? You don't remember him saying anything about the WMDs that were NEVER found? The reason we went into Iraq was because Bush claimed they had WMDs. Once in, and they didn't find it, suddenly it was all about terrorism. And of course, that's when he pulled our troops out of Saudi Arabia.

Wrong again, WMD's were not THE reason we went to Iraq. And in fact NO ONE claimed he had any that could be used against the US. However on the point, EVERYONE, INCLUDING the CLINTON Administration believed Saddam had them. EVERYBODY. I believe the Germans even believed that he was 2 years away from having a nuclear device.

Then why did Colin Powell go before the UN, with pictures to show where they were hiding WMDs? Apparently, you really weren't paying attention at the time. I was even arguing, at the time, in favor of Bush, but I also stipulated that if they didn't find the WMDs, then Bush should be impeached an removed from office for taking us to war under false pretenses.