Were Most Of America's Founding Fathers - Christians

[DriftingSand]

He has been disgraced once as liar and a charlatan.

Praying at the altar of liars and charlatans is a fools errand.

Your melodramatic comments surrounding Barton are cult-like. You should seek help for that.

He's not a liar or a charlatan. He explained himself and provided documentation for his findings and conclusions. Just because the truth doesn't fit into your personal, narrow-minded worldview doesn't make Barton wrong ... it makes you wrong.

She's another one that's gone off the deep end... waste of time even commenting on her lies.

You're right about that.

Please do me a favor. When you get the chance listen to Barton's defense of his book. Check out his site at Wallbuilders and see what he has to offer. He's a man so he's not perfect but by no means is he out to mislead anyone or force a particular slant on the issue of our founders. He has tens-of-thousands of original documents in his collection and he's read them all. He's been studying these issues for at least 25 years and probably longer. He's seen the documents and put the pieces of the puzzle together for all of us to see.

I've been sending his link to my friends and family and have made them aware of the false claims against him. I'm going to see to it that he's exonerated and I'm going to buy his book and send it to folks I know will read it.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Sorry you're embarrassed but there really isn't much I can do about that. I'm in another profession.

I know that you won't take time to watch this video but Barton defends his book AFTER the recall. So it now becomes his word against the words of his attackers. What most folks don't want to admit is that Barton has the legitimate data and documents to back up his original claims. Anyway, for anyone TRULY interested in the truth here's Barton defending himself and his credibility (fast forward to 13:55. The earlier portion is simply a long introduction). Barton is a good man who truly wants the truth to be known. I don't believe that he EVER intentionally mislead anyone:

David Barton Defends His Recalled Book Thomas Jefferson Lies w/ Glenn Beck in GBTV Answering Critics - YouTube

His "attackers" as you put it are conservative academics.
Stop already.
Please.
For your own sake.
Find a new hero.

I suppose you consider Karl Rove a "conservative" too. But aren't you one of those who routinely call conservatives "WRONG?" Which is it?

How did Karl Rove enter this conversation? Non-sequitur.
Are you trying to make the argument that conservatives are always wrong?
Even your more credible allies are trying to let you know you are planting your flag in soiled ground.

 

[Hollie]

Thank God for our Christian founders including Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin. Great men, they were.

And thank the gods the founders framed a model of government that provided me protections from those who wield their religion like a bloody truncheon.

So you're thanking a group of wise Christians. Thanks. We're once again in agreement.

Not all FF's were Christian. Why so desperate to force your religion onto others?

 

[Hollie]

He has been disgraced once as liar and a charlatan.

Praying at the altar of liars and charlatans is a fools errand.

Your melodramatic comments surrounding Barton are cult-like. You should seek help for that.

He's not a liar or a charlatan. He explained himself and provided documentation for his findings and conclusions. Just because the truth doesn't fit into your personal, narrow-minded worldview doesn't make Barton wrong ... it makes you wrong.

She's another one that's gone off the deep end... waste of time even commenting on her lies.

It was Barton who was humiliated as the liar. You are defending his lies. Don't you find anything odd about that?

 

[thebrucebeat]

Nope. When his book is re-released it will go down in history as a classical piece of historical accuracy and Barton will be revered as a courageous truth-seeker who stood up to anti-Christ and his lock-step army of fools.

He has been disgraced once as liar and a charlatan.
Praying at the altar of liars and charlatans is a fools errand.

Your melodramatic comments surrounding Barton are cult-like. You should seek help for that.

Only in your demented mind, sweetheart... oh, and maybe Brucie's too...

And of course the minds of conservative academics who are trying to save you guys the humiliation you are hell-bent on claiming for your own.

 

[Gadawg73]

Most all of the Founders were Christians.
Christians that owned and fucked their slaves, consumed massive amounts of alcohol, contributed handsomely to the local HO house, smuggled, avoided taxes whenever they could and fought like HELL against the main Christian theme of the day in that world: The claim that God ran the earth and that the common man had to answer to the crown monarchies of the world and not doing so was a Christian sin.
And the Founders rebeled against that and ALL Christian mandates from government.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Go play in traffic.

Only in your demented mind, sweetheart... oh, and maybe Brucie's too...

She's another one that's gone off the deep end... waste of time even commenting on her lies.

Look at these posts.
None are productive or responsive.
None make a supportable, serious rebuttal.
These are why you aren't taken seriously on here. You bring nothing to be taken seriously.
At least Drifting Sand is trying to form a defense. It is unfortunate that his education is such that he can't parse the difference between an amateur historian without the skills in the discipline and credible conservative academicians who have pointed out the flaws in Barton's research. He believes his faith has some impact on what is verifiably true, but he's trying.
You don't even try.

 

[DriftingSand]

And thank the gods the founders framed a model of government that provided me protections from those who wield their religion like a bloody truncheon.

So you're thanking a group of wise Christians. Thanks. We're once again in agreement.

Not all FF's were Christian. Why so desperate to force your religion onto others?

99.9999% were Christian. Thank them for shedding their blood so that you could have the right to hate them, Christians in general, and Christianity in general. Have a nice day.

 

[DriftingSand]

Look at these posts.
None are productive or responsive.
None make a supportable, serious rebuttal.
These are why you aren't taken seriously on here. You bring nothing to be taken seriously.
At least Drifting Sand is trying to form a defense. It is unfortunate that his education is such that he can't parse the difference between an amateur historian without the skills in the discipline and credible conservative academicians who have pointed out the flaws in Barton's research. He believes his faith has some impact on what is verifiably true, but he's trying.
You don't even try.

1) I have yet to see you post a productive post.
2) You show me quoting things that I never said.
3) Barton is an honest and honorable historian.

Have a nice day.

 

[Newby]

Look at these posts.
None are productive or responsive.
None make a supportable, serious rebuttal.
These are why you aren't taken seriously on here. You bring nothing to be taken seriously.
At least Drifting Sand is trying to form a defense. It is unfortunate that his education is such that he can't parse the difference between an amateur historian without the skills in the discipline and credible conservative academicians who have pointed out the flaws in Barton's research. He believes his faith has some impact on what is verifiably true, but he's trying.
You don't even try.

Neither of you are worthy of 'rebuttal', you offer nothing but lies and personal insults.

 

[Newby]

1) I have yet to see you post a productive post.
2) You show me quoting things that I never said.
3) Barton is an honest and honorable historian.

Have a nice day.

They are a waste of perfectly good oxygen, DS. Hope you have a great day!

 

[thebrucebeat]

1) I have yet to see you post a productive post.
2) You show me quoting things that I never said.
3) Barton is an honest and honorable historian.

Have a nice day.

I have repeatedly posted that Barton's critics are fellow conservatives and you consistently ignore this. It isn't that my posts aren't productive. You simply are uncomfortable with what they produce.
Please show where I have quoted something you haven't said. I can't find it.
Barton is not a historian at all, of any stripe.
And thanks, I will.

 

[thebrucebeat]

Look at these posts.
None are productive or responsive.
None make a supportable, serious rebuttal.
These are why you aren't taken seriously on here. You bring nothing to be taken seriously.
At least Drifting Sand is trying to form a defense. It is unfortunate that his education is such that he can't parse the difference between an amateur historian without the skills in the discipline and credible conservative academicians who have pointed out the flaws in Barton's research. He believes his faith has some impact on what is verifiably true, but he's trying.
You don't even try.

Neither of you are worthy of 'rebuttal', you offer nothing but lies and personal insults.

You are the personal insult king.
No one on these boards is any worse than you in use of vulgarity and invective.
This post of yours is simply verification of my point and could be added to my previous list of your unresponsive posts.

 

[Hollie]

So you're thanking a group of wise Christians. Thanks. We're once again in agreement.

Not all FF's were Christian. Why so desperate to force your religion onto others?

99.9999% were Christian. Thank them for shedding their blood so that you could have the right to hate them, Christians in general, and Christianity in general. Have a nice day.

It doesn't serve your argument to simply make up this stuff as you go.

 

[DriftingSand]

Not all FF's were Christian. Why so desperate to force your religion onto others?

99.9999% were Christian. Thank them for shedding their blood so that you could have the right to hate them, Christians in general, and Christianity in general. Have a nice day.

It doesn't serve your argument to simply make up this stuff as you go.

I could hand you a silver platter full of facts and you'd still find a way to deny the truth. That's obviously how you roll.

So let's just share in our thanks that our Christian founders fought for our freedom. Amen.

 

[DriftingSand]

Look at these posts.
None are productive or responsive.
None make a supportable, serious rebuttal.
These are why you aren't taken seriously on here. You bring nothing to be taken seriously.
At least Drifting Sand is trying to form a defense. It is unfortunate that his education is such that he can't parse the difference between an amateur historian without the skills in the discipline and credible conservative academicians who have pointed out the flaws in Barton's research. He believes his faith has some impact on what is verifiably true, but he's trying.
You don't even try.

Neither of you are worthy of 'rebuttal', you offer nothing but lies and personal insults.

You are the personal insult king.
No one on these boards is any worse than you in use of vulgarity and invective.
This post of yours is simply verification of my point and could be added to my previous list of your unresponsive posts.

Tit for tat ... my dad's bigger than your dad ... blah, blah, blah.

 

[Chuckt]

Look at these posts.
None are productive or responsive.
None make a supportable, serious rebuttal.
These are why you aren't taken seriously on here. You bring nothing to be taken seriously.
At least Drifting Sand is trying to form a defense. It is unfortunate that his education is such that he can't parse the difference between an amateur historian without the skills in the discipline and credible conservative academicians who have pointed out the flaws in Barton's research. He believes his faith has some impact on what is verifiably true, but he's trying.
You don't even try.

Neither of you are worthy of 'rebuttal', you offer nothing but lies and personal insults.

You are the personal insult king.
No one on these boards is any worse than you in use of vulgarity and invective.
This post of yours is simply verification of my point and could be added to my previous list of your unresponsive posts.

And who did you complain about before him? Oh I think I know.

 

[Hollie]

99.9999% were Christian. Thank them for shedding their blood so that you could have the right to hate them, Christians in general, and Christianity in general. Have a nice day.

It doesn't serve your argument to simply make up this stuff as you go.

I could hand you a silver platter full of facts and you'd still find a way to deny the truth. That's obviously how you roll.

So let's just share in our thanks that our Christian founders fought for our freedom. Amen.

If you actually presented facts that would be fine. The problem arises when you confuse your personal biases as representative of facts.

 

[DriftingSand]

I have repeatedly posted that Barton's critics are fellow conservatives and you consistently ignore this. It isn't that my posts aren't productive. You simply are uncomfortable with what they produce.
Please show where I have quoted something you haven't said. I can't find it.
Barton is not a historian at all, of any stripe.
And thanks, I will.

The word "conservative" has different meanings to different folks. There's one word that will always trump such a title and that word is "truth." No man that I know of has spent as much time and effort to dig into the early documents and know as much about the subject as David Barton. He puts your knowledge and mine combined to shame.

Take a look at your recent quotes. You've applied my name to statements made by Newby. See our post #327

A historian is anyone who studies history and uncovers historical facts. One needn't have a University degree to read and study history. I've known fantastic sculptors, musicians, and other professionals who've never taken formal training.

 

[Chuckt]

It doesn't serve your argument to simply make up this stuff as you go.

I could hand you a silver platter full of facts and you'd still find a way to deny the truth. That's obviously how you roll.

So let's just share in our thanks that our Christian founders fought for our freedom. Amen.

If you actually presented facts that would be fine. The problem arises when you confuse your personal biases as representative of facts.

And what biases do you have, Hollie?